Startin A Non Profit Bar In Thailand

[cheynewalk]

Just wondering if it would be possible to run a bar not for profit,but more as a break even proposition. More for the expat who has sufficient independent income and would just like a hobby/interest to occupy himself and be able to socialise and chat with customers.

Something with a minimum of stress and a bit of fun. If you were working on this type of business model you could probably pay your staff more and charge less for drinks. Has anybody ever tried this?

[Ulysses G.]

Starting a non-profit bar is a long tradition amongst expats in Thailand, but most of them did not intend to lose money when they began.

My take on this is that you would start to resent all the problems and abuse from some customers (for no profit) that comes from running a business in Thailand and after spending a lot of money to get the place going. I have seen people try this business model every now and then over the years, but do not remember any lasting very long.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[lovetotravel]

I'm no expert, but have met many bar owners over the years. Some do well, many break even and many more lose money. Times are tough right now. I've seen quite a few shuttered and many for sale.

As mentioned above, you won't be dealing with the best of clients unless you open up something in a high end hotel or such. Plus, you will have to deal with the police. You will have to pay them and you will have issues from time to time depending on their need for supplemental income. One guy I know ended up in jail for reasons he could never figure out. Until he paid 60kB to get out. Plus, you can't own the bar, nor can you work behind the bar. Makes it kinda messy. Most are 7 day a week operations. You can't just close when you want or you will potentially lose customers.

My good friend ran one on Bangla for 10+ years. Right near beach road. They basically broke even, though that wasn't their plan. And it was hard work.

What location were you considering?

[craigt3365]

Why don't we move this over to the Business forum. OK?

[Ijustwannateach]

I knew a man who tried to start a kind of bar in a very tourist-popular area, and it certainly wasn't profitable. But what drove him out of business was the demands for 'protection money' from Bangkok's Finest. You see, there ARE no legal bars owned by foreigners- I'm not even sure how many there really are owned by Thais. Virtually the only businesses that can get actual legal liquor licenses are branches of well known luxury hotels which open here and which have very VIP backing. That's how hold is maintained over all the other types of bars- they have no real liquor license and basically can only operate illegally. It is unlikely that your 'protector's' ideas of a bar and the income they expect with suit your low-maintenance plans, but as with everything, your mileage may vary.

[GuestHouse]

I'm convinced that bars in Thailand only operate on one of three business models:

1. They make a proffit.

2. They are an efficient means of laundering money 'obtained' by other means.

3. They are an efficient means of depleting the owner's life savings.

[jcw]

Just look at the high turn over of bars, I doubt many make money when they are even trying to. Have you factored in the BIB as well?

[PattayaPhom]

As you are not really going to be able to work there and will only be sat chatting and drinking with customers...why not just sit in other bars and do this...less stress and you wont loose any money. In Hua Hin it has been known for guys to be sat chatting with customers and to get arrested for working!!!.........If you do go ahead, find an empty unit with cheap rent and furnish it yourself, dont go paying silly key money etc. if the bar dosnt make money you have lost very little, and any profit is a bonus....let us know if you do and will pop round for one of your very cheap drinks.

[cardholder]

I would recommend that you explore stamp collecting, or bird batching, as an alternative - it will save you the stress

[jalansanitwong]

Youre going to have alot of headaches with non paying customers, drunks ,tattooed hoons ,broken bottles and general pilferage by staff. Not worth it ,expecially if the cops come around for a hand out. Beer bars are technically illegal anyway ( street prostitution kiosks) so stay away from them.

If you want to chat with people then drink in someone elses bar as other forum posters recommend.

I suggest you dont do this in Pattaya. Maybe Cha-am with far fewer sexpats and other low lifes milling around is the place to be.

Edited April 11, 2012 by jalansanitwong

[sparebox2]

Non-profit bar? What a new concept.

Do you mean no bar fine, and the girls/boys/ladyboys/katoeys gets to keep 100% what they can extort from the farang clients?

Edited April 11, 2012 by sparebox2

[CMSteve]

This is great advice. There is no reason for you to be in any ownership/working position for "hobby/interest to occupy himself and be able to socialise and chat "

You're here to relax, so relax.

As you are not really going to be able to work there and will only be sat chatting and drinking with customers...why not just sit in other bars and do this...less stress and you wont loose any money.

Edited April 11, 2012 by CMSteve

[cardholder]

Non-profit bar? What a new concept.

Do you mean no bar fine, and the girls/boys/ladyboys/katoeys gets to keep 100% what they can extort from the farang clients?

"extort" is inappropriate in a normal buying/selling transaction.

[BngkkB]

Do you have any experience in running a bar? From what I have read on this Forum more than once is that the Farang laugh and criticize the Thai GF for wanting to open a business with no prior experience. But a lot of the Farang think that they can open a bar and make a go of it, with absolutly no prior experience in the bar business or business experience at all in this country. Most of them don't even speak the language and then when they fail it's everyone elses fault.

Amazing Thailand, Amazing Farang

[geriatrickid]

How about a non profit place that serves food and alcohol. You wouldn't need to pimp anyone out and this would provide two important benefits;

1. The lack of hookers means you would not be a threat to anyone nasty.

2. You don't have to look at yourself in the mirror everyday and see a pimp staring back at you.

Edited April 11, 2012 by geriatrickid

[Daewoo]

I've one mate who has owned and run a few bars in a few places successfully, and not successfully...

He 'bought' a bar in Cowboy - 'bought' fitout and goodwill and paid rent... paid for itself and then generated income... he paid a Thai to run it and manage the BiB... closed the doors over a dispute with landlord (didn't get to 'sell' the bar, but did generate a profit while he ran it, after paying for the purchase)...

Started another bar with a Thai partner elsewhere in BKK... closed after a short time, I don't know why, don't know if it made money...

Bought a bar in Pattaya, ran it for a while, sold it and went back to BKK, don't think he was making money...

Has recently opened a very big bar in BKK... he isn't a dummy, so he wouldn't be doing it if he couldn't make it pay for itself plus make some money for the hassle... for most of the time he has also been working elsewhere earning good money...

My understanding is that few bars make money or even pay for themself... for the most part it is cheaper to buy drinks in someone else's bar...

[kerryk]

How about a non profit place that serves food and alcohol. You wouldn't need to pimp anyone out and this would provide two important benefits;

1. The lack of hookers means you would not be a threat to anyone nasty.

2. You don't have to look at yourself in the mirror everyday and see a pimp staring back at you.

I think he wants to open a place in Thailand.

[AZBill]

Hire a bunch of ugly girls. No profit guaranteed!

[lifeisthefun]

Unless the nature of the business is charitable, e.g., a clinic, I wouldn't advertise it as not for profiit. You might as well put a board up outside saying, Come on in and rip us off.

I've known people who ran a business for the heck of it, not because they needed the money, but for something to do, which seems to be your case. Well, all those people actually ran very efficient, apparently for-profit operations, from which they would take out whatever income they didn't need and cut a check every quarter to their favorite charity. That way they had motivation to go into work each day and a lot of pride in helping a cause.

Not caring for profit just seems to be a lousy basis to run a business. So, what happens if you've made enough for the day by 2pm? Shoo the customers away, shutter up and go play a round of golf? Much better pick a great cause and go work your butt off for it. And if you're looking for cause here's a really topical one for Bkk - help ladyboys wanting one but who can't afford it get their operation done. Trust me you'll be doing the city a great service and, down the road, be getting more lovin' than you can handle.

[pipo1000]

I knew a man who tried to start a kind of bar in a very tourist-popular area, and it certainly wasn't profitable. But what drove him out of business was the demands for 'protection money' from Bangkok's Finest. You see, there ARE no legal bars owned by foreigners- I'm not even sure how many there really are owned by Thais. Virtually the only businesses that can get actual legal liquor licenses are branches of well known luxury hotels which open here and which have very VIP backing. That's how hold is maintained over all the other types of bars- they have no real liquor license and basically can only operate illegally. It is unlikely that your 'protector's' ideas of a bar and the income they expect with suit your low-maintenance plans, but as with everything, your mileage may vary.

Ever considered that there is something like a Thai nominee involved who has the liquor license in his name?

[sadoc]

I was involved in 4 bars and a fast food restaurant over 5 years , I saw these enterprises as more something for the G/F to do and earn her own money having a paying business in the uk I saw myself just overseeing . Any profits went to the family and any losses the farang kindly made up . .

I admit I had a lot of fun but went through a fortune and the booze destroyed my pancreas . Bars are hard work at the best of times , you will soon become bored with the hours and the hassles and will either shut or let others look after the business and keep bailing it out .

Offering a higher than normal wage here doesn't seem to bring the same sort of loyalty as you would expect in the west , with a cash business. Good Luck !

[Kodan]

"Non Profit Bar In Thailand"

Those five words dont even belong in the same scentence. If you make your prices low enough to NOT make a profit you will be pissing off the people you dont want to piss off. Lots of good advice here. Maybe you should buy a taxi and have someone run it for you if you dont want to make money.

[gk10002000]

Kind of reminds me of Branson when asked how he became a millionaire. He said it was simple. First I made a billion, then I bought an airline!

[koolbreez]

There is some good advice here, and some that needs to be emphasized. First you stand a very slim chance of making a profit even if you wanted to. Staff theft is a big problem in a bar with so much cash, and always a need by someone for some of it. As was mentioned you can not serve drinks, and run it yourself as a foreigner. You need staff, and to find ones you can trust, and that work is next to impossible if you don't know them already.

It is extremely difficult to get a non-immigrant visa owning a bar. Not impossible, but extremely difficult. The best bet being new at it is to get one connected to a hotel of some sorts.

It is very easy to piss off other bars in your area if you take their customers away, and they can be extremely vengeful. They already have the connections to make it very rough on you if they want, unless you have considerably more money than they do, and are willing to spend it all if the need arises. Pay-offs, and bribes get things done, and not only legal things. This is very important to remember if you are going to undercut established pricing.

Even with having a bar designed not to make a profit, be willing to work every hour it is open. If you can find a manager that does not rob you blind then you might get time away, but you can not count on it starting out. You have to plan on basically living there the whole time it is open.

If you do not have lengthy experience running a profitable bar in any other country, don't plan on learning in Thailand, you don't have enough money to even make it one year. You will be robbed blind from every angle, from the beer distributor on down to the cleaning crew, and everyone in between.

If you still want to try it then I would be willing to help you get started for an appropriate retainer. I am older now, and physically not able to manage bars anymore.

[kerryk]

There is some good advice here, and some that needs to be emphasized. First you stand a very slim chance of making a profit even if you wanted to. Staff theft is a big problem in a bar with so much cash, and always a need by someone for some of it. As was mentioned you can not serve drinks, and run it yourself as a foreigner. You need staff, and to find ones you can trust, and that work is next to impossible if you don't know them already.

It is extremely difficult to get a non-immigrant visa owning a bar. Not impossible, but extremely difficult. The best bet being new at it is to get one connected to a hotel of some sorts.

It is very easy to piss off other bars in your area if you take their customers away, and they can be extremely vengeful. They already have the connections to make it very rough on you if they want, unless you have considerably more money than they do, and are willing to spend it all if the need arises. Pay-offs, and bribes get things done, and not only legal things. This is very important to remember if you are going to undercut established pricing.

Even with having a bar designed not to make a profit, be willing to work every hour it is open. If you can find a manager that does not rob you blind then you might get time away, but you can not count on it starting out. You have to plan on basically living there the whole time it is open.

If you do not have lengthy experience running a profitable bar in any other country, don't plan on learning in Thailand, you don't have enough money to even make it one year. You will be robbed blind from every angle, from the beer distributor on down to the cleaning crew, and everyone in between.

If you still want to try it then I would be willing to help you get started for an appropriate retainer. I am older now, and physically not able to manage bars anymore.

Another poster wrote, "You see, there ARE no legal bars owned by foreigners." Is this true?

[ObsessiveAddict]

Find an old dish cloth , go to one of your favourite bars and start cleaning tables.

It will be your hobbie and you wont loose or make any money!

I suppose the only downside is that you wouldent be the owner..

Maybe they would give you some free beers for your time!

[kerryk]

Find an old dish cloth , go to one of your favourite bars and start cleaning tables.

It will be your hobbie and you wont loose or make any money!

I suppose the only downside is that you wouldent be the owner..

Maybe they would give you some free beers for your time!

I have heard of that. Don't they call them clean up trannys?