PTT Gas Pipeline Route Ignites Explosion Fears: Thailand

[webfact]

PTT gas pipeline route ignites explosion fears

Thanapat Kitjakosol

The Nation

AYUTTHAYA: -- The PTT project to lay a 195-kilometrelong naturalgas pipeline from Ayutthaya's Wang Noi district to Nakhon Sawan's Krok Phra district has raised concerns among affected residents, particularly those living near the Royal Thai Army's armoury in Nakhon Sawan's Phayuha Khiri district.

Project support manager Chira Chobhimaves said PTT had hosted a public forum late last month in Sing Buri to review the draft environmental impact assessment (EIA) report and allow the public to voice concerns and recommendations for the draft's completion.

The forum was attended by about 1,000 residents of Nakhon Sawan, Sing Buri, Angthong and Ayutthaya, who were seeking more information on the project plus clarification on compensation for property to be cut through by the pipeline.

Tambon Yan Matsee administrative member Thanongsak Phumkasem asked why the pipeline's planned route came within 1,200 metres of the armoury's bombdisposal depot. He voiced fears that an explosion during bomb disposal could cause a dangerous gas leak. He added that soldiers had said ordnance at the armoury had the power to cause destruction over a very large area. an area of 75 kilometres. ??? square kilometres?? Radius?? He urged PTT to inspect the site and prevent any problems.

Village headman Pakkapol Wangcharoen said Phayuha Khiri residents wanted assurances that such an accident could not occur, as it would destroy half the district. Urging PTT to make the pipeline in the area thicker than usual, he said the armoury disposed of bombs every 15 days, and those living within a 1km radius could feel the impact of the explosions.

Project engineer Itthipol Ekahitanont said the pipeline could withstand a magnitude7 earthquake, but he accepted the suggestion that PTT send a team of experts team to probe whether the bombdisposal activity could affect the pipeline. Project director Chosit Pinsuwan said PTT had Bt1.5 billion in thirdparty insurance in case of disaster.

Other villagers, especially shop owners, voiced fears that the pipeline's construction would hit trade and bring traffic congestion.

The Highways Department raised concerns that the pipeline, running along the Asia Highway through the Central region's river basin, would block waterways during the rainy season and thereby cause severe flooding. They urged PTT to consult with the Strategic Committee for Water Resources Management.

The project's EIA report adviser and environment expert, Premwadi Preedaphan, said the pipeline would be underground and the area would be returned to its natural state to prevent blockage of waterways. During construction it might be necessary to divert waterways temporarily, she said, but drainage problems would be fixed.

The 28inch (71centimetre) pipeline will pass through Ayutthaya, Angthong, Sing Buri, Lop Buri, Chai Nat and Nakhon Sawan and will cost Bt23 billion. Its construction - passed by the National Energy Policy Council and approved by the Cabinet in 2010 - is scheduled to begin early next year and take 20 months to complete.

-- The Nation 2012-04-13

[slapout]

Hope the pipeline plan mentioned is not the same as that pictured. Two lines running along a highway with electric transmission line near. Pipelines setting on makeshift blocks, with narrow dirt track between them. Wonder what engineer designed this project?

[londonthai]

"Its construction - passed by the National Energy Policy Council and approved by the Cabinet in 2010"

slow news day, so papers try to make story by bombastic article titles.

from the picture looks like construction has already started

[bangkok101]

Hope the pipeline plan mentioned is not the same as that pictured. Two lines running along a highway with electric transmission line near. Pipelines setting on makeshift blocks, with narrow dirt track between them. Wonder what engineer designed this project?

A trench will be excavated, the pipe laid into the trench and buried....silly!!

[whybother]

NIMBY

[dazk]

yes that is the pipe line picture have driven past several time, above poster is correct pipe will be buried, first the sections are laid out and welded together then lowed in trench and covered

[slapout]

Hope the pipeline plan mentioned is not the same as that pictured. Two lines running along a highway with electric transmission line near. Pipelines setting on makeshift blocks, with narrow dirt track between them. Wonder what engineer designed this project?

A trench will be excavated, the pipe laid into the trench and buried....silly!!

Well silly me, I thought the trench was made first , Pipe laid and welded, as it was placed in the trench, tested at safety/clean out placement and then covered with the dirt from the trench. I have seen pipeline laid above ground due to perma frost, drastic temp. change, etc, but those supports were a little more perment than what is picture.

[Soutpeel]

And what have we learned from some of these posts, boys and girls....a little knowlege is a dangerous thing, of course this will be trenched out and PL buried

[overherebc]

It may not even be a trench. Most of it will go underground using HDD. Horizontal Directional Drilling. The hole is drilled at the same diameter as the pipe and then it, the pipe, is pulled into the hole. Sections over a kilometre long can be done this way. This saves having to cut through roads and soi's etc. It all ends up at least 3 metres underground. Soil conditions can vary so both methods may be used.

Sawadee Pee Mai

Edited April 13, 2012 by overherebc

[bangkok101]

haven't encountered much perma frost in Thailand these days. But, depending on the medium under transport, some p/l transmission lines are designed above ground but so many design factors mitigate the methodology. The best protection is afforded by burial method and this is a key design criteria in populated locations such as Thailand.

[anterian]

I note that in Africa such pipelines are often drilled into by the natives seeking free fuel. This results in frequent explosions and fires.

[cloghead]

It may not even be a trench. Most of it will go underground using HDD. Horizontal Directional Drilling. The hole is drilled at the same diameter as the pipe and then it, the pipe, is pulled into the hole. Sections over a kilometre long can be done this way. This saves having to cut through roads and soi's etc. It all ends up at least 3 metres underground. Soil conditions can vary so both methods may be used.

Sawadee Pee Mai

The only HDD will be under roads, rail tracks, golf courses etc. The HUGE majority of the PL will be trenched and back-filled.

Exactly like the others thousands of kilometers of large gas lines in Thailand have been installed...

[Skywalker69]

Hope the pipeline plan mentioned is not the same as that pictured. Two lines running along a highway with electric transmission line near. Pipelines setting on makeshift blocks, with narrow dirt track between them. Wonder what engineer designed this project?

Y.S?

[noitom]

yes that is the pipe line picture have driven past several time, above poster is correct pipe will be buried, first the sections are laid out and welded together then lowed in trench and covered

You mean that they will do this finishing up before some van spins out of control or a gas truck jacknifes and crashes into the pipes and sets off the mother of explosions?

[pipo1000]

It may not even be a trench. Most of it will go underground using HDD. Horizontal Directional Drilling. The hole is drilled at the same diameter as the pipe and then it, the pipe, is pulled into the hole. Sections over a kilometre long can be done this way. This saves having to cut through roads and soi's etc. It all ends up at least 3 metres underground. Soil conditions can vary so both methods may be used.

Sawadee Pee Mai

And how do they do that with a pipeline that has been welded together already?

[stoneyboy]

Pipelining is old hat,take a look at our boys knocking out the butts in 1968,little has changed when it comes to this say for the health and safety aspect here in the UK,mainly stove welding with cellulose rods.

Root, hot pass,fill and cap.

Then comes the radiography or X-ray in laymen's turns,those in the trade call it bombing.

A good earner in the day and still difficult to get into.

I'm sure things will be done very similarly to this in LOS.

Take a look at these couple of videos,most informative.

1968

2010

Note how little it has changed.

Edited April 13, 2012 by stoneyboy

[Soutpeel]

Pipelining is old hat,take a look at our boys knocking out the butts in 1968,little has changed when it comes to this say for the health and safety aspect here in the UK,mainly stove welding with cellulose rods.

Root, hot pass,fill and cap.

Then comes the radiography or X-ray in laymen's turns,those in the trade call it bombing.

A good earner in the day and still difficult to get into.

I'm sure things will be done very similarly to this in LOS.

Take a look at these couple of videos,most informative.

1968

2010

Note how little it has changed.

Thai welders, some of the best in the world, and I am referring to the real welders are not the ones "welding" fence wire for house roof trusses

[cloghead]

yes that is the pipe line picture have driven past several time, above poster is correct pipe will be buried, first the sections are laid out and welded together then lowed in trench and covered

You mean that they will do this finishing up before some van spins out of control or a gas truck jacknifes and crashes into the pipes and sets off the mother of explosions?

There won't be any gas in the line--other than air/nitrogen for testing--until it is completely finished and commissioned...

[bangkok101]

yes that is the pipe line picture have driven past several time, above poster is correct pipe will be buried, first the sections are laid out and welded together then lowed in trench and covered

You mean that they will do this finishing up before some van spins out of control or a gas truck jacknifes and crashes into the pipes and sets off the mother of explosions?

Nothing in the line to cause an explosion.

Edited April 14, 2012 by bangkok101

[overherebc]

Pipelining is old hat,take a look at our boys knocking out the butts in 1968,little has changed when it comes to this say for the health and safety aspect here in the UK,mainly stove welding with cellulose rods.

Root, hot pass,fill and cap.

Then comes the radiography or X-ray in laymen's turns,those in the trade call it bombing.

A good earner in the day and still difficult to get into.

I'm sure things will be done very similarly to this in LOS.

Take a look at these couple of videos,most informative.

1968

2010

Note how little it has changed.

Thai welders, some of the best in the world, and I am referring to the real welders are not the ones "welding" fence wire for house roof trusses

Biggest change now is the use of Auto UT scanning instead of of x-ray. Lot less hassle with equipment and safety concerns ref the X-ray. Think the pipeline shown is being done with Auto UT and a small number of welds double checked with Rad' as a back up when needed. Re HDD, believe NACAP put an 80 kilometre pipe through bangkok and more than 80% was drilled in. Sure that some of you can remember seeing it on top of the containers and on rollers ready for pulling in the hole . It came down the west ring road and then under the river near one of the old ferry points.

[ThomasGentleman]

I worked on pipelines for ten years as a wrapper then at the end of the job i went to samui for 20 weeks till the next job. The photo looks good all run of the mill stuff (if it is even a photo of the line in question. Water not air (or any other gas) is used for testing the line. When a pipeline runs under high voltage power lines a thin cable of uncoated zinc is put in the ground above the pipeline to protect the pipe but this has more to do with electro magnetics than a ground strike, as an electric current is run though the pipe to stop rust.

''Thai welders, some of the best in the world,'' err no the best pipeline welders are English or German on any line there will be a repair welder he will be the best welder on the job he will not be Thai (99.99%) there may well be no Thai welders on the job at all other than to fill the quota for local workers. most jobs I have been on have local workers that never even see the pipe just to make the paper work look right.

If you need a pipeline wrapper on this job then please contact me.

stoneyboy are you a pipeliner ?

[cloghead]

^^^ ^^^

[Soutpeel]

I worked on pipelines for ten years as a wrapper then at the end of the job i went to samui for 20 weeks till the next job. The photo looks good all run of the mill stuff (if it is even a photo of the line in question. Water not air (or any other gas) is used for testing the line. When a pipeline runs under high voltage power lines a thin cable of uncoated zinc is put in the ground above the pipeline to protect the pipe but this has more to do with electro magnetics than a ground strike, as an electric current is run though the pipe to stop rust.

''Thai welders, some of the best in the world,'' err no the best pipeline welders are English or German on any line there will be a repair welder he will be the best welder on the job he will not be Thai (99.99%) there may well be no Thai welders on the job at all other than to fill the quota for local workers. most jobs I have been on have local workers that never even see the pipe just to make the paper work look right.

If you need a pipeline wrapper on this job then please contact me.

stoneyboy are you a pipeliner ?

Well I actually work in the business in Thailand, at senior level (not in the dope station) and have done so for many years and prior to that all over the world,

Further have worked with welders of many nationalities and I can assure you Thai welders are some of the best in the world.

It is very apparant you have no idea as to what actually happens in Thailand, There actually is no "local quota's" for welders, as they are all Thai.

Havent seen an expat welder doing SMAW/GMAW etc in Thailand for at least last 10 years, The only time I have seen expat "welders" in Thailand are those operating the automatic welding units, and strictly speaking these guys are equipment operators not welders per se.

In conclusion your talking absolute poop, and if you wish to debate on pipeline construction both onshore or offshore in Thailand I will gladly debate you on any point you care to raise

[Soutpeel]

When a pipeline runs under high voltage power lines a thin cable of uncoated zinc is put in the ground above the pipeline to protect the pipe but this has more to do with electro magnetics than a ground strike, as an electric current is run though the pipe to stop rust.

You mean cathodic protection...got FA to do with power lines...which CP system are you referring to impressed current or sacrifical anode ?...your talking more poop.

Based on your 10 years stated experience can see why you never progressed beyond the wrapping station

[bangkok101]

I worked on pipelines for ten years as a wrapper then at the end of the job i went to samui for 20 weeks till the next job. The photo looks good all run of the mill stuff (if it is even a photo of the line in question. Water not air (or any other gas) is used for testing the line. When a pipeline runs under high voltage power lines a thin cable of uncoated zinc is put in the ground above the pipeline to protect the pipe but this has more to do with electro magnetics than a ground strike, as an electric current is run though the pipe to stop rust.

''Thai welders, some of the best in the world,'' err no the best pipeline welders are English or German on any line there will be a repair welder he will be the best welder on the job he will not be Thai (99.99%) there may well be no Thai welders on the job at all other than to fill the quota for local workers. most jobs I have been on have local workers that never even see the pipe just to make the paper work look right.

If you need a pipeline wrapper on this job then please contact me.

stoneyboy are you a pipeliner ?

Well I actually work in the business in Thailand, at senior level (not in the dope station) and have done so for many years and prior to that all over the world,

Further have worked with welders of many nationalities and I can assure you Thai welders are some of the best in the world.

It is very apparant you have no idea as to what actually happens in Thailand, There actually is no "local quota's" for welders, as they are all Thai.

Havent seen an expat welder doing SMAW/GMAW etc in Thailand for at least last 10 years, The only time I have seen expat "welders" in Thailand are those operating the automatic welding units, and strictly speaking these guys are equipment operators not welders per se.

In conclusion your talking absolute poop, and if you wish to debate on pipeline construction both onshore or offshore in Thailand I will gladly debate you on any point you care to raise

Thai welders have far too many repairs in their welds, SMAW or GMAW unless they are paid a bonus. They are ok welders, but definately do not make the grade on difficult F/T's or dealing with mis-alignment.

[ThomasGentleman]

When a pipeline runs under high voltage power lines a thin cable of uncoated zinc is put in the ground above the pipeline to protect the pipe but this has more to do with electro magnetics than a ground strike, as an electric current is run though the pipe to stop rust.

You mean cathodic protection...got FA to do with power lines...which CP system are you referring to impressed current or sacrifical anode ?...your talking more poop.

Based on your 10 years stated experience can see why you never progressed beyond the wrapping station

zzzzzzz arrogant and wrong always a good combo. Just Google - cathodic protection high voltage power lines

The flowing is from the search results

cant post links

1. Some cathodic protected pipelines installed along high voltage transmission lines have been presenting corrosion problems. The causes of this corrosion have been attributed to alternating current (AC) interferences coming from high voltage transmission lines and/or from electric supplying systems. There are several criteria adopted by literature to evaluate the probability of AC corrosion.

2. It is increasingly common for new pipelines to be constructed in existing high voltage overhead power line rights-of-way and for new power lines to be placed near existing pipelines. All pipelines are being impacted—petroleum, natural gas, water and wastewater. When underground metallic pipelines are in close proximity to high voltage power transmission lines, an electromagnetic field is created by the alternating current (AC). The potentially devastating effects of power line operations can include compromising personnel safety, equipment malfunction and negatively impacting pipeline reliability. AC voltages greater than 15 volts are a shock hazard, raising safety and liability concerns. While rare, pipe failures caused by excessive voltages under power line fault conditions have been reported.

AC interference can result in severe corrosion of the pipeline. Depending on soil characteristics and other factors, the corrosion can occur at voltages less than those considered tolerable relative to electrical safety. Extensive AC-

caused corrosion is becoming more common, particularly for pipelines that have operated in collocated rights-of-way for many years without appropriate mitigation. In certain instances, AC-caused corrosion was detected in as little as four years after the pipeline was put into operation.

There reports on this, one is

named

- Corrosion due to AC influence of very high voltage power lines on polyethylene-coated steel pipelines: evaluation of risks – preventive measures

''cathodic protection...got FA to do with power lines..'' lol well done for knowing the words ''sacrificial anode'' nice to put that in to make it look like you know what you are talking about a true argumentum ad verecundiam

[ThomasGentleman]

not that anyone cares about any of this at all

[Soutpeel]

Thai welders have far too many repairs in their welds, SMAW or GMAW unless they are paid a bonus. They are ok welders, but definately do not make the grade on difficult F/T's or dealing with mis-alignment.

This is certainly not my experience after 10 years in the industry in Thailand, in all the jobs I have worked, repair rates are better than what is considered international norms in both SMAW & GMAW....but hey what do I know...I only work in the business.

[ThomasGentleman]

Thai welders have far too many repairs in their welds, SMAW or GMAW unless they are paid a bonus. They are ok welders, but definately do not make the grade on difficult F/T's or dealing with mis-alignment.

This is certainly not my experience after 10 years in the industry in Thailand, in all the jobs I have worked, repair rates are better than what is considered international norms in both SMAW & GMAW....but hey what do I know...I only work in the business.

555+

[tiger2]

.

Edited April 16, 2012 by tiger2