Doing A Midnight Runner On The Wife

[BigJohnnyBKK]

You guys that have nothing to do but sit around all day with a woman must be quietly going crazy with boredom and frustration.

Speaking for myself neither has ever been a problem. Even though this is "for free", it ties right in with the rest of my work, and other than my sessions, sleeping and spending time with my babies I'm pretty much working, often 11-14 hours a day.

[aneliane]

Learning program ?

Learning what ?

English to start with since that takes the longest. Computer skills, including basic touch-typing - some aren't literate in Thai so only do English, otherwise up to them if they want to do both.

Depending on that maybe wait a while before basic maths, history, geography not as much as they'd get if they'd gone to school - most stop between 10 and 12.

Lots of stuff most of us would take for granted like table manners, many have never used a farang-style toilet, been in a multi-storied building, taking a lift, not being so deferential/cringing when meeting people they've been taught are "higher" than them.

Farang food, just familiarity to start with, later on how to cook and serve for various types of entertaining - one girl went on to become a chef in LA. Some go to get certified in massage, some secretarial stuff and/or bookkeeping, what they'd need to work as a PA, one wanted to be a guide, some are educated enough to teach Thai. Obviously the vocational stuff is usually later stage, many just go ahead and go looking for a husband, have no intention of working otherwise.

I'm not sure I understand, you are some kind of teacher ?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I'm not sure I understand, you are some kind of teacher ?

Many kinds.

Just to clarify, I don't make any money off the girls thing, my helping them is my value-in-exchange rather than paying them cash, they don't give me any commission or anything, although I have standing invitations to visit quite a few nice cities overseas, taken out to some nice dinners, attended a few fun weddings. Which are of course the best way to meet new ones. . .

[brit1984]

I'm not sure I understand, you are some kind of teacher ?

Many kinds.

Just to clarify, I don't make any money off the girls thing, my helping them is my value-in-exchange rather than paying them cash, they don't give me any commission or anything, although I have standing invitations to visit quite a few nice cities overseas, taken out to some nice dinners, attended a few fun weddings. Which are of course the best way to meet new ones. . .

I am also slightly confused; which of the following would you consider to describe your relationship with the girls?...

a: the girls are prostitutes, you are the customer, and you pay for sex by providing an education

b: the girls are students, you are the teacher, and they pay for the education by prostituting themselves to you

Edited May 5, 2012 by brit1984

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I am also slightly confused; which of the following would you consider to describe your relationship with the girls?...

a: the girls are prostitutes, you are the customer, and you pay for sex by providing an education

b: the girls are students, you are the teacher, and they pay for the education by prostituting themselves to you

I'm more of a coach, mentor, facilitator, I only directly teach them certain topics, and that mostly only in the early stages.

They are certainly not prostitutes, or rather if you think they are then you must think most women are. If they choose to go that route then they have to go out on their own, and a few of the more impatient ones have done so, but fortunately so far seem to have landed their fish early enough to avoid the usual disasters.

They also have the option of bartering other services once they have the necessary skills, but usually at a much lower value per hour. Some of the especially ambitious and clever ones basically end up getting a free ride toward the end, since it is so rewarding to me to see them get ahead without my having to push them.

You might see it as distasteful but I can honestly say no one's getting deceived, manipulated, exploited, deceived here, or at least not any more than the average school or workplace, and certainly less than many "traditional" relationships.

[aneliane]

I am sure you don't mean bad or anything,and without your help these women would probably had not had any education at all.

But don't you think that you are taking advantage of the situation ?

Also, having to resort to these types of deal to have a relationship, does not it make the all thing moot or taste stale ?

Don't you ever want to be with someone who likes you for who you are ?

[JurgenG]

Didn't have the time to read the 275 posts of this thread.

The OP just reminds me the lyrics of this Nancy Sinatra song

Now he's gone, I don't know why

And till this day, sometimes I cry

He didn't even say goodbye

He didn't take the time to lie.

Bang bang, he shot me down

Edited May 6, 2012 by JurgenG

[theblether]

There are plenty of people out there that fancy themselves as Zen Masters when it comes to relationships. Some actually are, but not many. These days there are plenty of people coming out of long term marriages and relationships and they are like lambs to the slaughter once they go back into the dating game. There are plenty of wolves out there waiting to pick them off.

I have dated dozens of women over the past few years in the UK. That's not boasting, it's fact. I have been highly disconcerted at times by what I have heard from these women. Even allowing for exaggeration there seems to be a weird expectation of relationships out there.

I'm taking nothing away from the contributors to this thread, I am quite prepared to believe that everyone is being sincere and honest in their opinion, in their experience. However I can guarantee you that out of the 100+ women I have dated in the UK in the last 10 years no two were the same when it came to their attitude to relationships and sexuality.

Some were looking to have their confidence built ( re-built ) as mentioned by BigJohnnyBKK, and there was a time that I enjoyed playing that role, then I decided that it was doing nothing for my emotional health, helping others over their problems and with me metaphorically releasing them at the end, it always had the same net result. I had an emotional investment in these ladies and at the end I ended up alone. Not good in the overall scheme of things.

The idea that women do not enjoy sex as stated by Aneliane is alien to my experience, in fact I would say it is borderline laughable. That's not to say that I haven't dated ladies who had a particular attitude to sex which was " reserved " but I haven't dated any that out and out hated sex. On the whole I have found ladies in the UK to have a healthy sexual appetite, made more healthy by being treated correctly, and being treated correctly was the key. It wasn't the same for every lady. Some ladies would swoon at a bunch of flowers, others would laugh in your face and bin them. Is that not part of the art of seduction? Finding out your what your new partner likes???

However Aneliane is of that opinion so she must have good reason to believe it, so up to her. I will not contest that point with her. I will say though in her defence, I have dated ladies from many nationalities, mainly European and African, as well as a fair few Chinese and other Asian ladies. I have found many Thai ladies to have a peculiar attitude to sex. My first Thai gf did not enjoy sex, that was off putting. She was a stunningly beautiful lady but that lack of interaction meant that she was a peacock, beautiful to look at, not much use for anything else, except maybe be a fancy feather duster.

My second Thai gf was a lot more relaxed, and that was a relief. I still had to dance through the hoops that decent Thai ladies like to put you through, however at the end up the relationship was healthy an equal. I use that word equal as I have found with another couple of Thai gf's that they are unusually servile. I didn't understand why that would be the case and being inquisitive as I am I had to go look as to the reason why. So I asked the two experts, Google and Bar Girls. Google took me into a wonderland of Thai women being servile to their husbands, traditionally prostrating themselves in front of their husbands before going to bed, never initiating sex, etc etc. The Bar Girls kind of giggled at that, said it used to be true, and that some old fashioned girls are still reserved in that area. They then open up to their complaints about Thai lady / Farang male sexuality which I have no doubt just about every male member of TV has heard before. If we have all heard it from multiple sources then the chances are it's true??? Huh????

There are roughly 4 billion adults in the world, I reckon that is roughly the same amount of opinions we would get on successful relationships if we had to ask them all. I don't have time for that, I'm trying to figure out the mind of my current gf and that keeps me busy enough.

If someone could write the Ultimate Guide to Relationship Success it would be the greatest selling book of all time.

Just saying

Edited May 6, 2012 by theblether

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I am sure you don't mean bad or anything,and without your help these women would probably had not had any education at all.

But don't you think that you are taking advantage of the situation ?

Also, having to resort to these types of deal to have a relationship, does not it make the all thing moot or taste stale ?

Don't you ever want to be with someone who likes you for who you are ?

Thank you for expressing greater open-mindedness than you had before, and for your concern for my spiritual/emotional well-being.

Not sure of the meaning you're going for here with "moot", I realize you're not a NES, but for me personally there is nothing stale about my relationships at all.

I spend many hours each day teaching, reading and talking to, playing with etc my two young children, who of course are perfect angels. If I didn't have them yes I most likely would seek more "deep and meaningful" relationships with my sex partners.

What you probably don't understand is that I do in fact have quite strong relationships at an emotional/spiritual level with most of them - however I make sure to hold that part back, because I'm currently unable promise a girl I'll be able to provide for a reasonable level of financial security for a reasonable length of time. Therefore it is unfair for me to hold her back from the goals she, her family and her culture have defined as providing for her happiness. When the time comes that I'm ready to commit in that way, I know there will be several wonderful girls in the pipeline I'll be able to work on persuading that I'm worthy of a commitment from them.

Usually the hard part is getting them to go away, as Charlie Sheen pointed out (not a role model I assure you 8-). Abject poverty is actually a wonderful help in that regard. Of course even when I'm relatively wealthy, the fact that I'm unable to promise monogamy and will need to get them to accept an open marriage arrangement, and won't be having any more children, will make things more difficult.

Regarding taking advantage, definitely not. What I am giving them is of far greater value than anything I'm getting from them, and without my help I am very sure their lives would be much worse, most would have just ended up heading for Pattaya - or worse - a few months later.

[maxme]

I'm not try to hose you into a debate but to me that seems more like "for services rendered" but I guess we all have our own definition of what a enjoyable or a happy relationship is I guess.

[brit1984]

I am sure you don't mean bad or anything,and without your help these women would probably had not had any education at all.

But don't you think that you are taking advantage of the situation ?

Also, having to resort to these types of deal to have a relationship, does not it make the all thing moot or taste stale ?

Don't you ever want to be with someone who likes you for who you are ?

Thank you for expressing greater open-mindedness than you had before, and for your concern for my spiritual/emotional well-being.

Not sure of the meaning you're going for here with "moot", I realize you're not a NES, but for me personally there is nothing stale about my relationships at all.

I spend many hours each day teaching, reading and talking to, playing with etc my two young children, who of course are perfect angels. If I didn't have them yes I most likely would seek more "deep and meaningful" relationships with my sex partners.

What you probably don't understand is that I do in fact have quite strong relationships at an emotional/spiritual level with most of them - however I make sure to hold that part back, because I'm currently unable promise a girl I'll be able to provide for a reasonable level of financial security for a reasonable length of time. Therefore it is unfair for me to hold her back from the goals she, her family and her culture have defined as providing for her happiness. When the time comes that I'm ready to commit in that way, I know there will be several wonderful girls in the pipeline I'll be able to work on persuading that I'm worthy of a commitment from them.

Usually the hard part is getting them to go away, as Charlie Sheen pointed out (not a role model I assure you 8-). Abject poverty is actually a wonderful help in that regard. Of course even when I'm relatively wealthy, the fact that I'm unable to promise monogamy and will need to get them to accept an open marriage arrangement, and won't be having any more children, will make things more difficult.

Regarding taking advantage, definitely not. What I am giving them is of far greater value than anything I'm getting from them, and without my help I am very sure their lives would be much worse, most would have just ended up heading for Pattaya - or worse - a few months later.

I think you explain your unusual love (or anti-love) life very well; you seem to be very self-aware and to be applying some sort of logic (albeit a logic that seems rather strange to follow from the perspective of someone like myself who prefers "regular" relationships).

My only real concern when reading some of your posts is that your partners seem to have a very low mental age (intellectually and emotionally they seem to be more like children) and you seem to be stepping-in as the father figure they never had.

I assume it is something you have given some thought too but I would like to know how you ensure that these girls really know what they are getting themselves in for when they come by your place to learn about American table manners.

I don't mean to be rude; you have provided good answers to the questions I have previously asked you on this and other threads, and I hope you can provide me further re-assurances on this point, as I must say I do feel a slight (actually quite considerable) sense of concern for these girls.

[eek]

I am sure you don't mean bad or anything,and without your help these women would probably had not had any education at all.

But don't you think that you are taking advantage of the situation ?

Also, having to resort to these types of deal to have a relationship, does not it make the all thing moot or taste stale ?

Don't you ever want to be with someone who likes you for who you are ?

Thank you for expressing greater open-mindedness than you had before, and for your concern for my spiritual/emotional well-being.

Not sure of the meaning you're going for here with "moot", I realize you're not a NES, but for me personally there is nothing stale about my relationships at all.

I spend many hours each day teaching, reading and talking to, playing with etc my two young children, who of course are perfect angels. If I didn't have them yes I most likely would seek more "deep and meaningful" relationships with my sex partners.

What you probably don't understand is that I do in fact have quite strong relationships at an emotional/spiritual level with most of them - however I make sure to hold that part back, because I'm currently unable promise a girl I'll be able to provide for a reasonable level of financial security for a reasonable length of time. Therefore it is unfair for me to hold her back from the goals she, her family and her culture have defined as providing for her happiness. When the time comes that I'm ready to commit in that way, I know there will be several wonderful girls in the pipeline I'll be able to work on persuading that I'm worthy of a commitment from them.

Usually the hard part is getting them to go away, as Charlie Sheen pointed out (not a role model I assure you 8-). Abject poverty is actually a wonderful help in that regard. Of course even when I'm relatively wealthy, the fact that I'm unable to promise monogamy and will need to get them to accept an open marriage arrangement, and won't be having any more children, will make things more difficult.

Regarding taking advantage, definitely not. What I am giving them is of far greater value than anything I'm getting from them, and without my help I am very sure their lives would be much worse, most would have just ended up heading for Pattaya - or worse - a few months later.

This is actually not my business, so no need to answer of course, unless you feel like sharing. But what you wrote has me wondering if these girls actually know the score with you..? In the sense that, when you approach them etc, is it in a normal fashion? Ie: you "woo" them and they enter into your life as a normal girlfriend, but your real agenda from the outset is really to have a relationship for "x" amount of time, even if they have no idea. A slightly disconnected comfort on your part?

I could have read into your post all wrong of course. But as it stands It comes over as a tad narcissistic to be honest.

Edited May 7, 2012 by eek

[kerryk]

I am sure you don't mean bad or anything,and without your help these women would probably had not had any education at all.

But don't you think that you are taking advantage of the situation ?

Also, having to resort to these types of deal to have a relationship, does not it make the all thing moot or taste stale ?

Don't you ever want to be with someone who likes you for who you are ?

Thank you for expressing greater open-mindedness than you had before, and for your concern for my spiritual/emotional well-being.

Not sure of the meaning you're going for here with "moot", I realize you're not a NES, but for me personally there is nothing stale about my relationships at all.

I spend many hours each day teaching, reading and talking to, playing with etc my two young children, who of course are perfect angels. If I didn't have them yes I most likely would seek more "deep and meaningful" relationships with my sex partners.

What you probably don't understand is that I do in fact have quite strong relationships at an emotional/spiritual level with most of them - however I make sure to hold that part back, because I'm currently unable promise a girl I'll be able to provide for a reasonable level of financial security for a reasonable length of time. Therefore it is unfair for me to hold her back from the goals she, her family and her culture have defined as providing for her happiness. When the time comes that I'm ready to commit in that way, I know there will be several wonderful girls in the pipeline I'll be able to work on persuading that I'm worthy of a commitment from them.

Usually the hard part is getting them to go away, as Charlie Sheen pointed out (not a role model I assure you 8-). Abject poverty is actually a wonderful help in that regard. Of course even when I'm relatively wealthy, the fact that I'm unable to promise monogamy and will need to get them to accept an open marriage arrangement, and won't be having any more children, will make things more difficult.

Regarding taking advantage, definitely not. What I am giving them is of far greater value than anything I'm getting from them, and without my help I am very sure their lives would be much worse, most would have just ended up heading for Pattaya - or worse - a few months later.

What's worse than Pattaya? Bangkok or Phuket?

[farang000999]

so did OP just never come back to the topic?

[NaMah]

I am sure you don't mean bad or anything,and without your help these women would probably had not had any education at all.

But don't you think that you are taking advantage of the situation ?

Also, having to resort to these types of deal to have a relationship, does not it make the all thing moot or taste stale ?

Don't you ever want to be with someone who likes you for who you are ?

Thank you for expressing greater open-mindedness than you had before, and for your concern for my spiritual/emotional well-being.

Not sure of the meaning you're going for here with "moot", I realize you're not a NES, but for me personally there is nothing stale about my relationships at all.

I spend many hours each day teaching, reading and talking to, playing with etc my two young children, who of course are perfect angels. If I didn't have them yes I most likely would seek more "deep and meaningful" relationships with my sex partners.

What you probably don't understand is that I do in fact have quite strong relationships at an emotional/spiritual level with most of them - however I make sure to hold that part back, because I'm currently unable promise a girl I'll be able to provide for a reasonable level of financial security for a reasonable length of time. Therefore it is unfair for me to hold her back from the goals she, her family and her culture have defined as providing for her happiness. When the time comes that I'm ready to commit in that way, I know there will be several wonderful girls in the pipeline I'll be able to work on persuading that I'm worthy of a commitment from them.

Usually the hard part is getting them to go away, as Charlie Sheen pointed out (not a role model I assure you 8-). Abject poverty is actually a wonderful help in that regard. Of course even when I'm relatively wealthy, the fact that I'm unable to promise monogamy and will need to get them to accept an open marriage arrangement, and won't be having any more children, will make things more difficult.

Regarding taking advantage, definitely not. What I am giving them is of far greater value than anything I'm getting from them, and without my help I am very sure their lives would be much worse, most would have just ended up heading for Pattaya - or worse - a few months later.

This is actually not my business, so no need to answer of course, unless you feel like sharing. But what you wrote has me wondering if these girls actually know the score with you..? In the sense that, when you approach them etc, is it in a normal fashion? Ie: you "woo" them and they enter into your life as a normal girlfriend, but your real agenda from the outset is really to have a relationship for "x" amount of time, even if they have no idea. A slightly disconnected comfort on your part?

I could have read into your post all wrong of course. But as it stands It comes over as a tad narcissistic to be honest.

That is a polite way of putting it.

The misogyny and BS in this thread is breath-taking. There is the Wilt Chamberlain character citing 100+ conquests. There is the pimp posing as the paternal proprietor of a charm school. Good grief.

[kerryk]

I am sure you don't mean bad or anything,and without your help these women would probably had not had any education at all.

But don't you think that you are taking advantage of the situation ?

Also, having to resort to these types of deal to have a relationship, does not it make the all thing moot or taste stale ?

Don't you ever want to be with someone who likes you for who you are ?

Thank you for expressing greater open-mindedness than you had before, and for your concern for my spiritual/emotional well-being.

Not sure of the meaning you're going for here with "moot", I realize you're not a NES, but for me personally there is nothing stale about my relationships at all.

I spend many hours each day teaching, reading and talking to, playing with etc my two young children, who of course are perfect angels. If I didn't have them yes I most likely would seek more "deep and meaningful" relationships with my sex partners.

What you probably don't understand is that I do in fact have quite strong relationships at an emotional/spiritual level with most of them - however I make sure to hold that part back, because I'm currently unable promise a girl I'll be able to provide for a reasonable level of financial security for a reasonable length of time. Therefore it is unfair for me to hold her back from the goals she, her family and her culture have defined as providing for her happiness. When the time comes that I'm ready to commit in that way, I know there will be several wonderful girls in the pipeline I'll be able to work on persuading that I'm worthy of a commitment from them.

Usually the hard part is getting them to go away, as Charlie Sheen pointed out (not a role model I assure you 8-). Abject poverty is actually a wonderful help in that regard. Of course even when I'm relatively wealthy, the fact that I'm unable to promise monogamy and will need to get them to accept an open marriage arrangement, and won't be having any more children, will make things more difficult.

Regarding taking advantage, definitely not. What I am giving them is of far greater value than anything I'm getting from them, and without my help I am very sure their lives would be much worse, most would have just ended up heading for Pattaya - or worse - a few months later.

This is actually not my business, so no need to answer of course, unless you feel like sharing. But what you wrote has me wondering if these girls actually know the score with you..? In the sense that, when you approach them etc, is it in a normal fashion? Ie: you "woo" them and they enter into your life as a normal girlfriend, but your real agenda from the outset is really to have a relationship for "x" amount of time, even if they have no idea. A slightly disconnected comfort on your part?

I could have read into your post all wrong of course. But as it stands It comes over as a tad narcissistic to be honest.

That is a polite way of putting it.

The misogyny and BS in this thread is breath-taking. There is the Wilt Chamberlain character citing 100+ conquests. There is the pimp posing as the paternal proprietor of a charm school. Good grief.

Don't defile the man's memory. Wilt claimed over 20,000. 100 my lord that is only a months vacation for a lot of us fellows.

[TommoPhysicist]

The misogyny and BS in this thread is breath-taking. There is the Wilt Chamberlain character citing 100+ conquests. There is the pimp posing as the paternal proprietor of a charm school. Good grief.

Plenty of BS but I don't see any misogyny, a couple of posters adding some misandry though.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

What's worse than Pattaya? Bangkok or Phuket?

I used Pattaya as a label for the farang-oriented sex industry simply because of the huge volume flowing through there. That sector usually allows for a fair degree of independent choices by the girls, whereas being bonded into a Thai-run brothel is a much grimmer life. I'm not claiming all would end up in either situation, some might have been low-end maids or factory workers, but marrying a nice and relatively well-off farang is pretty high up there on the wishlist for many, and IMO it's a very valid goal given their circumstances, Providing a path for them to do so without having to work the bar game in between is win-win-win AFAICT.

I'm not try to hose you into a debate but to me that seems more like "for services rendered" but I guess we all have our own definition of what a enjoyable or a happy relationship is I guess.

Yes, for me, even for long-term relationships, I believe in starting on those terms with complete honesty in both directions and then putting in the hard work of real love, often gets reciprocated eventually once she realizes its genuine. Trying to start off with that romantic "love-as-a-feeling" as the initial basis hasn't worked well for me with young beautiful girls as a fat old bald guy, that tends to encourage dishonesty IMO.

I think you explain your unusual love (or anti-love) life very well; you seem to be very self-aware and to be applying some sort of logic (albeit a logic that seems rather strange to follow from the perspective of someone like myself who prefers "regular" relationships).

My only real concern when reading some of your posts is that your partners seem to have a very low mental age (intellectually and emotionally they seem to be more like children) and you seem to be stepping-in as the father figure they never had.

I assume it is something you have given some thought too but I would like to know how you ensure that these girls really know what they are getting themselves in for when they come by your place to learn about American table manners.

I don't mean to be rude; you have provided good answers to the questions I have previously asked you on this and other threads, and I hope you can provide me further re-assurances on this point, as I must say I do feel a slight (actually quite considerable) sense of concern for these girls.

This is actually not my business, so no need to answer of course, unless you feel like sharing. But what you wrote has me wondering if these girls actually know the score with you..? In the sense that, when you approach them etc, is it in a normal fashion? Ie: you "woo" them and they enter into your life as a normal girlfriend, but your real agenda from the outset is really to have a relationship for "x" amount of time, even if they have no idea. A slightly disconnected comfort on your part?

I could have read into your post all wrong of course. But as it stands It comes over as a tad narcissistic to be honest.

The tone of both of your posts is far from rude, no offense possible, thanks - and of course I'm inviting such discussion, so no need to feel you're prying, it is very helpful for me to expose my thinking though intelligent and thoughtful feedback .

WRT the maturity/father-role comment: this may be an over-generalization and some might even call it "racist" so I'll try to put it gently, but IMO even with much more well-educated upper-class Thais, they tend to develop emotional/psychological maturity much later than in the west. I think this has to do with parenting methods more than genetics but who knows, but most of my graduate-level uni students are IMO much less mature and capable of making informed decisions than my first set of kids were in even their early teens. However many of these village girls end up having kids at that age, and have to go out to work to pay for their baby's milk, and as many here know, that is the primary driver that sends many (most?) of the girls to the bars.

Absolutely no deception involved on my part, very clear that it's a work-study program from the start, and that the goal is to prepare them to marry an appropriate farang without having to work the bars first.

Regarding the "father figure" part, many of the girls do have traditional nuclear families, but of course many are being raised by aunties, grandma's etc. I am certainly their senior and do promise their families to be responsible for guiding them, but my relationship to them is on strictly business terms to start with n both directions. Every relationship has some patterning based on our early life and subconscious archetypes, but I don't spend much time and energy analysing these aspects, more focused on the day-to-day and real-life outcomes.

Same goes for the "narcissistic", I'm sure if I were wealthy and back in the states I'd have spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on the couch and learned much more about how that stuff works. However given my current situation, things seem to be working out OK with most people involved in my life, I'm getting what I want and I think giving them what they need. I know I haven't reached the highest stage in my development yet as a full human being, but feel like I'm heading in the right direction best I can each day.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

The misogyny and BS in this thread is breath-taking. There is the Wilt Chamberlain character citing 100+ conquests. There is the pimp posing as the paternal proprietor of a charm school. Good grief.

I wouldn't call them "conquests", but I guess it wouldn't help to clarify that it's certainly into the thousands by now. The numbers are besides the point, some people prefer many sessions with the same provider, but when I was in that game I rarely took the same one twice and often several at a time. I'm not proud of it, nor ashamed, it is what it is, just sayin'.

Obviously you're entitled to express your opinion, but I'm curious where you perceive misogyny in this. I think I'm more concerned than most with encouraging not only the material but emotional/psychological/spiritual development of those with whom I get involved, and not just sex partners. Some of these are men - students, friends or colleagues, and I don't have different standards in my behavior with them.

Perhaps this is simply a parroting of now-discredited first-wave feminist ideology about sex work being inherently degrading, positioning the worker as the victim of their customer.

Many here know it goes just as often in the other direction, and "objectification" and "exploitation" are terms with much real-world application in general theories; I would be happy to explore such issues on a case-by-case basis, wrt my own actions my conscience is clear.

Edited May 7, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Don't defile the man's memory. Wilt claimed over 20,000. 100 my lord that is only a months vacation for a lot of us fellows.

Or a week when you're in a hurry. Obviously large-group activities tend to inflate the numbers.

From one of my friends recently "Your life is like Tiger Woods', but with hotter and much less sleazy girls. And you didn't even have to put in all that practice time on the golf course!"

To which I would add - and without lying to the wife. . .

[maxme]

BJB, I can understand this as the only option for you, however I have to disagree. Now if you and your girl is truly happy together then congrats but we live with the choices we make NOT what the life chooses for us. You can surely get a younger woman to fall in love with you and it's not about looks or cash... It's about attitude.

The mindset with young girls especially uneducated is an unpredictable one and while I don't question their motives for being with someone older because to me it's obvious... The question is when you cannot work anymore and you're in that age that you need help just to get by the daily routines... Will she still stick with you?

For me I have to agree with Aneliane on this one, i think it would work better to get someone how like you for who you are and of course that is not without effort. Every serious relationship requires hard work and sacrifices.

Edited May 7, 2012 by maxme

[kerryk]

Don't defile the man's memory. Wilt claimed over 20,000. 100 my lord that is only a months vacation for a lot of us fellows.

Or a week when you're in a hurry. Obviously large-group activities tend to inflate the numbers.

From one of my friends recently "Your life is like Tiger Woods', but with hotter and much less sleazy girls. And you didn't even have to put in all that practice time on the golf course!"

To which I would add - and without lying to the wife. . .

I mean there is a reason why there are three pole dancing stations in the rooms at that hotel in Pattaya.

I don't think NahMah's a bad guy but in reading his history I don't think he has ever been to Thailand.

It is difficult for a man who has never been here, lived with multiple partners or been an intimate member of the p4p scene to really understand what is going on.

And it is a constantly changing scene. As a result of changes in the new minimum wage law Burmese are flooding into Thailand right now to assume jobs in the hospitality industry. The Thais have been let go by many reputable hotel chains. I have never seen the go go's filled with such variety and beauty.

Last weekend while holidaying with the GF, she laughed hysterically at my attempts to communicate with the hotel staff in Thai because she realized they only spoke Burmese. The 95 baht chocolate bar in the refrigerator was half gone and re wrapped when we checked in. The Burmese are quite pretty BTW.

[maxme]

"Don't defile the man's memory. Wilt claimed over 20,000. 100 my lord that is only a months vacation for a lot of us fellows."

You must be the regular buffalo in order to plow through Nana and Asok in such a short time.

[aneliane]

I am sure you don't mean bad or anything,and without your help these women would probably had not had any education at all.

But don't you think that you are taking advantage of the situation ?

Also, having to resort to these types of deal to have a relationship, does not it make the all thing moot or taste stale ?

Don't you ever want to be with someone who likes you for who you are ?

Thank you for expressing greater open-mindedness than you had before, and for your concern for my spiritual/emotional well-being.

Not sure of the meaning you're going for here with "moot", I realize you're not a NES, but for me personally there is nothing stale about my relationships at all.

I spend many hours each day teaching, reading and talking to, playing with etc my two young children, who of course are perfect angels. If I didn't have them yes I most likely would seek more "deep and meaningful" relationships with my sex partners.

What you probably don't understand is that I do in fact have quite strong relationships at an emotional/spiritual level with most of them - however I make sure to hold that part back, because I'm currently unable promise a girl I'll be able to provide for a reasonable level of financial security for a reasonable length of time. Therefore it is unfair for me to hold her back from the goals she, her family and her culture have defined as providing for her happiness. When the time comes that I'm ready to commit in that way, I know there will be several wonderful girls in the pipeline I'll be able to work on persuading that I'm worthy of a commitment from them.

Usually the hard part is getting them to go away, as Charlie Sheen pointed out (not a role model I assure you 8-). Abject poverty is actually a wonderful help in that regard. Of course even when I'm relatively wealthy, the fact that I'm unable to promise monogamy and will need to get them to accept an open marriage arrangement, and won't be having any more children, will make things more difficult.

Regarding taking advantage, definitely not. What I am giving them is of far greater value than anything I'm getting from them, and without my help I am very sure their lives would be much worse, most would have just ended up heading for Pattaya - or worse - a few months later.

I just find the all thing incredibly sad.

Sad that poverty means young girls having to have relationships with older men to get some type of help/education

Sad that you won't allow yourself to fall in love because of money

Sad that you think that you have to resort to these schemes to get close to women

[brit1984]

We all follow different paths in the pursuit of happiness or fulfillment

The key is to minimise collateral damage on the way

[kerryk]

I know you people are all serious and well intentioned. But this is Thailand not Farang land. In Farang land the losers live alone and the winners are married with family.

In Thailand like so many other things it is the reverse.

[maxme]

I know you people are all serious and well intentioned. But this is Thailand not Farang land. In Farang land the losers live alone and the winners are married with family.

In Thailand like so many other things it is the reverse.

The means justify an untrue relationship or how do you mean?

[crazykopite]

Having lived over in Thailand for 6.5 years out of 20 friends I made only 3 are still with there Thai wives either the wife left because " no money no honey " or the husband left for another thai bar girl. The 3 friends left still married 2 look like there world has ended due to debt problems and the other guy is so damm old he cannot get it up but his mrs puts up with him because he is a wealthy American. If you want to screw around why not go for a massage no strings attached, as for me no complaints as my wife is from Europe and the hot weather makes her horney !!!!!!

[StreetCowboy]

I know you people are all serious and well intentioned. But this is Thailand not Farang land. In Farang land the losers live alone and the winners are married with family.

In Thailand like so many other things it is the reverse.

The means justify an untrue relationship or how do you mean?

Maybe he means:

In Thailand people are neither serious nor well-intentioned.

SC

[beachyman]

What I find funny about these so called "winners" here is that I can 9 times out of 10 tell within 5 seconds whether the guy has a thai girlfriend or wife. Common denominator is what?

All these so called pimps who "pull" girls don't kid yourselves. Here the girls can smell the socially awkward, financially retarded and physically disgusting or a combination of the three and pick you. In less time than you can say ATM they are as whipped as they were in their old failed relationships back home.

To those who have a chip on their shoulder about feminist white girls, please. Lots of guys find the ability to have successful relationships with farang girls for a night or long term and have no intreats in hookers of any country. It's simply a delusion you have conjured up to why someone here can stand you even though your unable to push away the fries.

As for the young guys with old haggard bar girl girlfriends my theory is they want a mom.