Too Soon To Come Back, But It's A Good Year, Thaksin Says

[tukkytuktuk]

Forget the last post I sent, the thing I am trying to explain is there is my side the pro Thaksin, red shirt who would like to see a re-trial of the said land ceasure case in which Thaksin was covicted in a politacally motivated move by the elite and their cronies. Another trial, televised with transparency over all the facts and an unbiased court and judge to conduct the trial. This will help the political up heaval and help with reconciliation.

[tlansford]

Your just another Thaksin critic falsely accusing him of crimes he didn't commit, you'll say anything to discredit him. Admit your a yellow shirt supporter in bed with the elite and their cronies. Why don't you read the news from this link and brush up on your history. http://www.google.co..._AZI-ztdADnUpSA

What does the election have to do with Thaksin's crimes?

I think by brush up on your history", he means "recent history"

BTW,

What crimes? Not to be provocative, really, but look at it seriously - he is convicted of signing his name to a land purchase (because it is Thai law), of an auction where his wife made the highest bid among three bids, where the auction had the right to not sell if the price were not high enough, which in fact happened in the first auction the summer before the sale, and where the land, as I recall, was recent sold at a price well below what Thaksin's wife paid... Ah yes, also in a 5/4 decision - 4 judges thought that he was not guilty.

Isn't that it in a nutshell?

Corruption, abuse of power?

Certainly he should have been convicted for something real and not a made-up fantasy.

Edited April 17, 2012 by tlansford

[tukkytuktuk]

Then if 5 found him guilty and 4 not guilty isn't this reason enough for a re-trial. An element of doubt in the courts decision is always a good reason for appeal.

[tlansford]

If only it was that simple. Thaksin is the red shirts, the pue thai party, the thai rak thai party the whole thing was started by him. Thaksin is the working class hero in Thailand, thats why people want him back. Why all the fuss every time he is in a neighbouring country or makes any comments on Thailand or meets with members of the pheu thai party or red shirt movement. In the yellow shirts mind he is public enemy number one and they the elite that is know how much of an influence he has and power he has if he returns. But the truth is that this is mostly in the heads of the paranoid elite and that he will probably lead a quiet life when he returns and just be an advisor to the government. Whats the worst that can happen by letting him return. Surely not letting him return will only make things worse.

"he will probably lead a quiet life when he returns"

I suspect that one part of Thaksin's problem, in wishing to negotiate to return home, is the suspicion that he wouldn't lead a quiet life, any more than he "quit Thai politics" in 2006, before going-on to form the Red-Shirt movement as you say, and that it's hard to think of any convincing guarantee on this which he might give.

"Whats the worst that can happen"

A dictatorship lasting 20+ years, with family-members in all major roles, perhaps ?

Okay, I've had my say Whybother, What do we need if we don't need Thaksin? Do you like, respect his sister the current PM who was democratically elected last year by a huge majority of Thai people? Come on its easy to post negative stuff. Tell us the masses what you would like to see happen in Thailand politically and don't try to manipulate us.

"elected last year by a huge majority of Thai people"

As the risk of being repetitive, how does 48.4% of the people who bothered to vote, or some 39% of the eligible voting population (17.5 million out of some 45 million), qualify as "a huge majority" ?

Not that I'd deny that PTP did very well in the election, just that a "huge majority" suggests much more, than "the largest minority", which I'd say is more accurate. Why overstate that fact ?

not to be repetitive but in a general election the term majority can also refer to the difference by which the winning party/person is elected, in this case, an 18 point spread on popular votes and 22 point spread on parliament seats, and IMO one can call that huge, large, significant, etc, but it clearly was not a close election.

By saying "majority of the Thai people" clouds the statement and can be construed to mean >50%

So it seems to be a question of precision in the use of the language. But the meaning is relatively clear.

[AleG]

Forget the last post I sent, the thing I am trying to explain is there is my side the pro Thaksin, red shirt who would like to see a re-trial of the said land ceasure case in which Thaksin was covicted in a politacally motivated move by the elite and their cronies. Another trial, televised with transparency over all the facts and an unbiased court and judge to conduct the trial. This will help the political up heaval and help with reconciliation.

The facts of the trial and the fundamentals of the conviction were broadcasted on TV at the time.

Court Begins Proceeding to Read Verdict on Ratchadapisek Case

You really should inform yourself before making statements, you are systematically wrong in most things you say.

[tukkytuktuk]

I'm wrong what ever I say, I could talk about how Thaksin has steerer Thailand out of an army run government dictorship like what we see in Burma today to a democratically run government but not one of you wants to hear it. You should rename this forum to the democrat party forum where its just one sided the beaucratic fascist bully boy side.

[Ricardo]

If I have a 100B-note, and buy something costing 52B, do I still have the huge majority of my money left ? I think not.

[whybother]

I'm wrong what ever I say, I could talk about how Thaksin has steerer Thailand out of an army run government dictorship like what we see in Burma today to a democratically run government but not one of you wants to hear it. You should rename this forum to the democrat party forum where its just one sided the beaucratic fascist bully boy side.

It was already steering away from an army run government when the 1997 constitution came about and then elections were held. Thaksin seemed to like the idea of a dictatorship when he put people he controlled in important positions. The only one he failed with was getting his brother at the head of the army. Then he would completed steering Thailand out of an army run dictatorship to a Thaksin run dictatorship.

[whybother]

Your just another Thaksin critic falsely accusing him of crimes he didn't commit, you'll say anything to discredit him. Admit your a yellow shirt supporter in bed with the elite and their cronies. Why don't you read the news from this link and brush up on your history. http://www.google.co..._AZI-ztdADnUpSA

What does the election have to do with Thaksin's crimes?

I think by brush up on your history", he means "recent history"

And what does "recent history" have to do with Thaksin's crimes?

BTW,

What crimes? Not to be provocative, really, but look at it seriously - he is convicted of signing his name to a land purchase (because it is Thai law), of an auction where his wife made the highest bid among three bids, where the auction had the right to not sell if the price were not high enough, which in fact happened in the first auction the summer before the sale, and where the land, as I recall, was recent sold at a price well below what Thaksin's wife paid... Ah yes, also in a 5/4 decision - 4 judges thought that he was not guilty.

Isn't that it in a nutshell?

Corruption, abuse of power?

Certainly he should have been convicted for something real and not a made-up fantasy.

It was pretty clear cut. He shouldn't have been involved in a financial deal with a government controlled department. There are reasons why there are laws to keep politicians and their families away from deals involving the government.

[tukkytuktuk]

Well at least you admit that that Thailand is an army controlled dictatorship. Who would you want as leader of Thailand? Did you like the last PM Abbasit? What do you want to see happen politically in Thailand? A more democratic system where everyone gets one vote and their party can serve the full 4 years in power. Or a more beaurocratic Thailand run by the elite with coups when the elite wants a change of government, with no real government power.

[phiphidon]

If I have a 100B-note, and buy something costing 52B, do I still have the huge majority of my money left ? I think not.

No, but you spent the huge majority of it................

[NewlyMintedThai]

I think Mr. T better review videos of Benny Aquino's triumphant return to Manila before he makes any big decisions.

[tukkytuktuk]

So who President Marcos in this scenario of your?

[NewlyMintedThai]

So who President Marcos in this scenario of your?

Everyone knows Mr. T has powerful enemies who would be happy to see him meet the same fate, but I'd rather not say any more.

[tukkytuktuk]

When you mean the same fate, do you mean shot when exiting his plane on landing say at Suvanabumi airport? Then over the years to come a popular uprising and eventually Thaksin wife is made PM, then later on his son.

[NewlyMintedThai]

When you mean the same fate, do you mean shot when exiting his plane on landing say at Suvanabumi airport? Then over the years to come a popular uprising and eventually Thaksin wife is made PM, then later on his son.

I think you are trying to take the analogy further than I intended.

I simply meant it as an example of a long-exiled, popular leader coming home to be "welcomed" on arrival by forces that had a stake in seeing him dead.

That's all.

[whybother]

Well at least you admit that that Thailand is an army controlled dictatorship. Who would you want as leader of Thailand? Did you like the last PM Abbasit? What do you want to see happen politically in Thailand? A more democratic system where everyone gets one vote and their party can serve the full 4 years in power. Or a more beaurocratic Thailand run by the elite with coups when the elite wants a change of government, with no real government power.

I said it was, then there was the 1997 constitution, then elections, then an attempt at a Thaksin run dictatorship.

[tukkytuktuk]

A long self exiled, popular leader, Thaksin would come back tomorrow if the democrat party agreed to reconcile but they don't. They're using the Thaksin returning issue as a bargaining chip, because they know if Thaksin returns they haven't got a chance of re-election in the next general election. Oh and what are they bargaining for, well to stay out of jail for crimes of ordering the shooting of red shirts two years ago.

[NewlyMintedThai]

A long self exiled, popular leader, Thaksin would come back tomorrow if the democrat party agreed to reconcile but they don't. They're using the Thaksin returning issue as a bargaining chip, because they know if Thaksin returns they haven't got a chance of re-election in the next general election. Oh and what are they bargaining for, well to stay out of jail for crimes of ordering the shooting of red shirts two years ago.

Thaksin is the only convicted criminal I see in this discussion.

[tukkytuktuk]

Convicted of what buying some land a bit cheaper than it should be. Wow! Not ordering live rounds of bullets be shot to disperse people who disagreed with the government.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Convicted of what buying some land a bit cheaper than it should be. Wow! Not ordering live rounds of bullets be shot to disperse people who disagreed with the government.

Convicted of fraud!

And let's not even talk about the thousands of deaths under Thaksin's drug eradication program, or Tak Bai and other mass atrocities committed under his watch.

Fact is, he was convicted of a crime and sentenced to jail. I think he'd find less opposition to his return if he agreed to go straight from the plane to prison and serve his sentence. But he is a megalomaniac who think that laws should not apply to him. And that is what has the potential of a hostile welcome home.

[tukkytuktuk]

Everyone else gets a fair trial, this one was politically tainted to go one way, not Thaksins way. A re-trail is the best option for reconciliation.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Everyone else gets a fair trial, this one was politically tainted to go one way, not Thaksins way. A re-trail is the best option for reconciliation.

Ahhhh. So he wasn't guilty as charged -- despite all the evidence to the contrary? Even you imply above that he was guilty but that it's not such a big deal.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Yes its not a big deal, its because of who he is that he got a jail term, you don't see Cherie Blair in jail for her property deals during Tony's timecin office or George W. Bush and Dick Chaney in jail for their dodgy deals in the Iraq war.

He had the chance to defend himself in court, but chose to jump bail and go on the run.

He had the chance to appeal the Court's decision, but chose not to stay on the run overseas.

You say he was convicted of "who he was", but in fact he was convicted because the preponderance of evidence was against him and because he chose not to defend himself.

You want to elevate him above the law and give him another trial because of "who he is".

In fact, people like you who are so blind would never consider ANY trial which convicted him as "fair" -- regardless of the evidence against him. So much for "fairness".

[tukkytuktuk]

Then maybe his sentence can be quashed as guilty he maybe but to have a coup take power from a democratically elected Prime Minister then to be handed a 2 year jail sentence on top seems a polically motivated move by the elite who support Abbasit and his democrat party.

[tlansford]

-- deleted text due to quote limits --

What does the election have to do with Thaksin's crimes?

I think by brush up on your history", he means "recent history"

And what does "recent history" have to do with Thaksin's crimes?

BTW,

What crimes? Not to be provocative, really, but look at it seriously - he is convicted of signing his name to a land purchase (because it is Thai law), of an auction where his wife made the highest bid among three bids, where the auction had the right to not sell if the price were not high enough, which in fact happened in the first auction the summer before the sale, and where the land, as I recall, was recent sold at a price well below what Thaksin's wife paid... Ah yes, also in a 5/4 decision - 4 judges thought that he was not guilty.

Isn't that it in a nutshell?

Corruption, abuse of power?

Certainly he should have been convicted for something real and not a made-up fantasy.

It was pretty clear cut. He shouldn't have been involved in a financial deal with a government controlled department. There are reasons why there are laws to keep politicians and their families away from deals involving the government.

I am pretty sure that you are aware that he and his wife did everything in the open and did not try to hide that he was the PM . It seems clear so far that they checked the laws and determined that there was not a conflict of interest, eg: confirmed that the office of the Prime Minister is neither the office in charge of, nor has the authority to direct or supervise the FIDF. At the time of the purchase, given the circumstances stated above, it is very hard to imagine how Thaksin and his wife could have thought they were violating a law at the technical level, much less how it could be that paying the high-bid in an open, transparent, auction where the high bid could be refused if too low, etc, could be construed as an abuse of power.

Where is the abuse of power in that? Where is the corruption in that?

[NewlyMintedThai]

Then maybe his sentence can be quashed as guilty he maybe but to have a coup take power from a democratically elected Prime Minister then to be handed a 2 year jail sentence on top seems a polically motivated move by the elite who support Abbasit and his democrat party.

The coup is not relevant to the crime he committed and was convicted of.

The only way ANYONE's unappealed conviction can be "quashed" is in the form of a pardon from HM the King.

Unless someone changes the Constitution and the law to favor him, a pardon is the only legal way. Until that day, he is a convicted criminal on the lam.

[whybother]

Then maybe his sentence can be quashed as guilty he maybe but to have a coup take power from a democratically elected Prime Minister then to be handed a 2 year jail sentence on top seems a polically motivated move by the elite who support Abbasit and his democrat party.

The coup didn't take power from any democratically elected leader.

[tukkytuktuk]

Who did they take power from? Your pet cat Oscar?

[whybother]

I am pretty sure that you are aware that he and his wife did everything in the open and did not try to hide that he was the PM . It seems clear so far that they checked the laws and determined that there was not a conflict of interest, eg: confirmed that the office of the Prime Minister is neither the office in charge of, nor has the authority to direct or supervise the FIDF. At the time of the purchase, given the circumstances stated above, it is very hard to imagine how Thaksin and his wife could have thought they were violating a law at the technical level, much less how it could be that paying the high-bid in an open, transparent, auction where the high bid could be refused if too low, etc, could be construed as an abuse of power.

Where is the abuse of power in that? Where is the corruption in that?

And his defence? "It was an honest mistake!"

He thought he could get away with it. He didn't.

Anyone charged with tax evasion could use the excuse that they did it in the open and their lawyers said it should be OK.

How the bidding was done is irrelevant. Thaksin and his wife shouldn't have been involved in it.