Norway Gunman Breivik Pleads 'Not Guilty' At Oslo Trial

[Colin Yai]

Further to my post Brit1984 , yeah I agree, thankfully Brevik was indeed a crazed loner ,and now that threat has been removed from Society ,the big problem with Radical Islam is that there are tens of thousands no one really knows how many, never the less they do exist world wide who wish to destroy our religion and way of life through mass murder and intimidation (Jihad) ,that is the simple truth of the matter nothing more nothing less .

Edited April 21, 2012 by Colin Yai

[Steely Dan]

He's against multiculturalism, so he targets and eliminates his own culture?

Oh dear, at the risk of treading on eggshells. perhaps he would argue that those in charge of Norwegian government were responsible for destroying Norwegian culture. Utoya Island was actually used as an activity camp by the ruling party where their politics were a major part of the activities. Again playing devil's advocate, perhaps Breivik would argue he was fighting against those enabling the destruction of Norwegian culture, indeed this does by method echo Al Qaeda who influenced him.

[Scott]

Oh dear, you are treading on eggshells. I thought of that, but I don't know that the man was firing on all his cylinders and that was my point -- my only point. ...but I fear we are straying off-topic.

[Steely Dan]

In closeing do you really believe I am the only person who believe that the Multicultural experiment has proved to be a disaster, there are millions out there, many I am afraid will not say so just in case some one is "offended" (The usual left wing appeasers).

Well, it's the Emperor's new clothes is it not, which I believe was actually written by a Dane as oppose to a Norwegian. I'm sure the trial will be used by the Norwegian establishment to try and discredit the right wing opponents to their failed policy so we can all admire the Emperor's attire for a while longer.

[Colin Yai]

Brit 1984 were did I ever write that the killing of Labour party Students ( you appear to have left that simple fact out) would stop THE FAILED IDEA of Multiculturalism ,you appear to be fighting shy of writing the truth ,Success or failure?, its that simple , maybe the same could (nutters) be said of all the Islamic radicals who are quite prepared to slaughter countless thousands of "infidels" to further their insane beliefs of world wide domination.

Colin - it is clear you only continue to post because you want to show your opposition to "THE FAILED IDEA of Multiculturalism" - if Breivik wanted to demonstrate his opposition to multiculturalism he could have posted his views on internet forums (or expressed his views through any other platform) - but actually he just wanted to kill people because he is a crazy loner

Simple question do you REALLY believe that Multiculturalism has been a success in Europe ?

[brit1984]

Brit 1984 were did I ever write that the killing of Labour party Students ( you appear to have left that simple fact out) would stop THE FAILED IDEA of Multiculturalism ,you appear to be fighting shy of writing the truth ,Success or failure?, its that simple , maybe the same could (nutters) be said of all the Islamic radicals who are quite prepared to slaughter countless thousands of "infidels" to further their insane beliefs of world wide domination.

Colin - it is clear you only continue to post because you want to show your opposition to "THE FAILED IDEA of Multiculturalism" - if Breivik wanted to demonstrate his opposition to multiculturalism he could have posted his views on internet forums (or expressed his views through any other platform) - but actually he just wanted to kill people because he is a crazy loner

Simple question do you REALLY believe that Multiculturalism has been a success in Europe ?

This story is about a crazy loner who killed 77 innocent people (mostly young students) for no reason

It saddens me that anyone would see the need to discuss whether his stated motivations are valid

[Colin Yai]

Brit 1984 were did I ever write that the killing of Labour party Students ( you appear to have left that simple fact out) would stop THE FAILED IDEA of Multiculturalism ,you appear to be fighting shy of writing the truth ,Success or failure?, its that simple , maybe the same could (nutters) be said of all the Islamic radicals who are quite prepared to slaughter countless thousands of "infidels" to further their insane beliefs of world wide domination.

Colin - it is clear you only continue to post because you want to show your opposition to "THE FAILED IDEA of Multiculturalism" - if Breivik wanted to demonstrate his opposition to multiculturalism he could have posted his views on internet forums (or expressed his views through any other platform) - but actually he just wanted to kill people because he is a crazy loner

Simple question do you REALLY believe that Multiculturalism has been a success in Europe ?

This story is about a crazy loner who killed 77 innocent people (mostly young students) for no reason

It saddens me that anyone would see the need to discuss whether his stated motivations are valid

I said in Europe ,it has nothing to do with what the nutter thinks I am simply asking you ,and of course you are under no obligation to answer .

[Scott]

I think a discussion of Multiculturalism is reasonably within the parameters of the thread. I don't, however, believe that anyone has to engage in a discussion if they chose not to.

[Colin Yai]

I think a discussion of Multiculturalism is reasonably within the parameters of the thread. I don't, however, believe that anyone has to engage in a discussion if they chose not to.

My Thoughts entirely .

[Yunla]

The irony of course is that many of his victims might have grown up to be strongly anti-immigration. They were too young to have many serious beliefs either way & statistically a good number of them might have grown up to oppose radical islam and mass-immigration in the future.

Sadly we will never know what political views those kids might have held as adults, because Breivik murdered them in their teens. The point being that he is a psychopath & so their future decisions are irrelevant, just as irrelevant as the fact that murdering 100 or 10000 people doesn't actually affect policies on immigration or religious discussion one iota.

[koheesti]

The irony of course is that many of his victims might have grown up to be strongly anti-immigration. They were too young to have many serious beliefs either way & statistically a good number of them might have grown up to oppose radical islam and mass-immigration in the future.

Sadly we will never know what political views those kids might have held as adults, because Breivik murdered them in their teens. The point being that he is a psychopath & so their future decisions are irrelevant, just as irrelevant as the fact that murdering 100 or 10000 people doesn't actually affect policies on immigration or religious discussion one iota.

If I remember correctly, the youth on this island were teenagers and young adults up to 25 yrs old so they weren't all "children". It is very easy to guess the political views they would have had as adults because they were at a camp run by a political party that was - according to Breivik - most responsible for forcing multiculturalism onto Norway at the expense of European culture. Even if this nut Breivik were 100% correct in his political views, murdering even one person because they have different views is certainly not the sane way to deal with it.

Breivik is clearly insane, and clearly a mass murderer and - IMO - it is a disgrace that he will live the rest of his life in the comfort of a Norwegian prison courtesy of taxpayers. He murdered scores of innocent people in cold blood. Put him on trial where he will be found guilty, learn why he did what he did and what can be done to stop it from happening again, dig a hole, throw his lifeless body into it, and move on.

[Steely Dan]

Breivik is clearly insane, and clearly a mass murderer and - IMO - it is a disgrace that he will live the rest of his life in the comfort of a Norwegian prison courtesy of taxpayers. He murdered scores of innocent people in cold blood. Put him on trial where he will be found guilty, learn why he did what he did and what can be done to stop it from happening again, dig a hole, throw his lifeless body into it, and move on.

Insane, probably, but I suspect he will see the irony in being a beneficiary of the lenient Norwegian justice system.

[brit1984]

I said in Europe ,it has nothing to do with what the nutter thinks I am simply asking you ,and of course you are under no obligation to answer .

Thanks for the clarification - I have no strong view on multiculturalism so I will leave this for you and others to discuss

[Yunla]

If I remember correctly, the youth on this island were teenagers and young adults up to 25 yrs old so they weren't all "children". It is very easy to guess the political views they would have had as adults because they were at a camp run by a political party that was - according to Breivik - most responsible for forcing multiculturalism onto Norway at the expense of European culture. ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-14276074

Actually many of the people killed were 15-17 years old. When you are 15 or 17 years old you have a very narrow & simple world-view because you have been alive for a very short amount of time, and in their case alive in a very affluent nation with a cotton-wool nanny state. The world view of 15-17 wealthy patriotic kids is to follow their parents. It doesn't mean that the kids have studied the world & the socio-political patterns of immigration. It just means they want to make their parents proud, and get a good job in the future with a mainstream political party of which their parents are members & approve.

Even at age 25 it is unlikely you are world-wise and fully-formed, compared to how you will be age 50.

I'm sure some of them would have grown up to follow the beliefs they held age 15 but a lot of them will change when they get older, a process called maturing. You only have to look at Winston Churchill, a quite famous politician who changed political parties from Conservative to Liberal TWO times as an adult while actually working in politics. People change their political views a lot as they mature & they see new aspects of society that they did not see when they were teenagers. My point stands, that many of these kids would statisticallly have grown up to oppose the growing mass-immigration and the growing presence of Islam. We will never know & the reason is that a random psycho killed them. He might as well have attacked a Baker's Convention because he doesn't like baguettes, for all the difference it would have made to society.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Yunla

[Skywalker69]

This fascist killer will get only 21 years' jail sentence....makes me feel real sick !

Jem

You are wrong.

As in many other countries in Northern Europe, he can be kept for life.

The 21 year is just a technicality really.

Check it up.

When prox 21 is up, and he due for the board.

It should be interesting to se who is willing to commit political or career cuicide by letting him out.

By the way, there will probably be quite a few waiting for him, both inside and outside the prison walls.

He will never get out again.

[Colin Yai]

Breivik is clearly insane, and clearly a mass murderer and - IMO - it is a disgrace that he will live the rest of his life in the comfort of a Norwegian prison courtesy of taxpayers. He murdered scores of innocent people in cold blood. Put him on trial where he will be found guilty, learn why he did what he did and what can be done to stop it from happening again, dig a hole, throw his lifeless body into it, and move on.

Insane, probably, but I suspect he will see the irony in being a beneficiary of the lenient Norwegian justice system.

Has no one ever thought that for years Brevik tried to do it "the right way" but was shouted down by the "the thought police" as a rabid xenophobe for pointing out the obvious problems in HIS Country, until finally he Snapped ,IMHO he was not born that way, he was made that way by the system , obviously along with others I condemn root and branch what he did ,but every person has a breaking point ,no doubt this will be deduced by the PC brigade that I am making excuse's for what he did ,I'm not ,I'm just trying to get inside the guys mind in a rational way instead of screaming from the rooftops about the gravity of his crimes which BTW is no worse that what is taking place right now with the Nigerian Christians , I could even come out with the complete garbage and write ,Ahh well no one bothers about them cos there are black so are not worth a mention ,personally I think there is a lot more to this sorry state of affairs, but whether the REAL truth will ever come out is highly doubtful as looking at Breviks face being led in to court I think the guy has just lost the plot .

[koheesti]

If I remember correctly, the youth on this island were teenagers and young adults up to 25 yrs old so they weren't all "children". It is very easy to guess the political views they would have had as adults because they were at a camp run by a political party that was - according to Breivik - most responsible for forcing multiculturalism onto Norway at the expense of European culture. ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-14276074

Actually many of the people killed were 15-17 years old. When you are 15 or 17 years old you have a very narrow & simple world-view because you have been alive for a very short amount of time, and in their case alive in a very affluent nation with a cotton-wool nanny state. The world view of 15-17 wealthy patriotic kids is to follow their parents. It doesn't mean that the kids have studied the world & the socio-political patterns of immigration. It just means they want to make their parents proud, and get a good job in the future with a mainstream political party of which their parents are members & approve.

Even at age 25 it is unlikely you are world-wise and fully-formed, compared to how you will be age 50.

I'm sure some of them would have grown up to follow the beliefs they held age 15 but a lot of them will change when they get older, a process called maturing. You only have to look at Winston Churchill, a quite famous politician who changed political parties from Conservative to Liberal TWO times as an adult while actually working in politics. People change their political views a lot as they mature & they see new aspects of society that they did not see when they were teenagers. My point stands, that many of these kids would statisticallly have grown up to oppose the growing mass-immigration and the growing presence of Islam. We will never know & the reason is that a random psycho killed them. He might as well have attacked a Baker's Convention because he doesn't like baguettes, for all the difference it would have made to society.

I agree that just because the kids were attending this political camp doesn't necessarily mean that they would end up with those same political views as adults. Still, the future leaders of the party will likely come from those who have been involved with the party at an early age, and not someone who joins them late in life. I believe that was part of this nutjob Breivik's plan - destroy the future leadership. However, and I hope this is obvious to everyone, how a young person might turn out as an adult is no reason to murder them.

[Scott]

In general, immigration to a country is a privilege, not a right. It needs to be up to each country to determine the number of people it wants to allow to resettle and the qualities of those people. Part of that test may very well be the ability of the person to adjust to the existing culture.

Cultures can and do change over time, but rapid change is generally viewed as negative and hard for everyone to adjust to.

I found the quiet of a Sunday morning as easily disturbed by the ringing of Church bells as I do for the call to prayer.

[GentlemanJim]

I agree that just because the kids were attending this political camp doesn't necessarily mean that they would end up with those same political views as adults. Still, the future leaders of the party will likely come from those who have been involved with the party at an early age, and not someone who joins them late in life. I believe that was part of this nutjob Breivik's plan - destroy the future leadership. However, and I hope this is obvious to everyone, how a young person might turn out as an adult is no reason to murder them.

Very well written. I agree totally with what you just said. I would only add that what Europe needs right now is open 'cards on the table' debate and discussion on religion and immigration and social cohesion etc. Currently the subjects of Islam and mass-immigration etc. are 'too sensitive to touch' and are considered the playground of racists and that must really stop. These subjects belong in the academic and socio-political sphere and not in back-streets and bars. These are important subjects that Europe needs to actually debate transparently. I am myself an atheist but I'm smart enough to know I am statistically more likely to die from another white atheist mugging me in the street, or a white atheist's car drink-driving allover me, than I am to die from a jihadi bomb. As a woman I am equally afraid of beiing raped by immigrants as I am afraid of being raped by white Europeans who can trace their family-tree back to King Ethelred. Crime is crime and to label it by ethnicity or religion is meaningless. The only way to get anywhere on these subjects is to discuss them logically in an open setting.

But you are not discussing the subject logically and are treating it with PC gloves on. Where I lived in central London my wife used to laugh when we went shopping as I was one of the only British white people in sight. You would have been raped, mugged or murdered by a black atheist youth aged 15-28. You can completely label crime by religion and ethnicity. That is why it is utterly futile searching an 80 year old white European female prior to boarding an aircraft, because all known aircraft bombings have been carried out by Male muslims aged 18-35. If we profiled passengers we would stop the problem in stead of pussy footing around with the PC brigade as you are doing, and spending billions just because we don't want one group to feel 'picked on'.

In general, immigration to a country is a privilege, not a right. It needs to be up to each country to determine the number of people it wants to allow to resettle and the qualities of those people. Part of that test may very well be the ability of the person to adjust to the existing culture. Cultures can and do change over time, but rapid change is generally viewed as negative and hard for everyone to adjust to. I found the quiet of a Sunday morning as easily disturbed by the ringing of Church bells as I do for the call to prayer.

The Church bells ringing on one occasion (if you are unfortunate enough to live in one of the rarer villages that have a church with a bell ringing team) and the call for Prayer being 35 times in a week! One is 35 times more disturbing than the other.

[Yunla]

But you are not discussing the subject logically and are treating it with PC gloves on. Where I lived in central London my wife used to laugh when we went shopping as I was one of the only British white people in sight. You would have been raped, mugged or murdered by a black atheist youth aged 15-28. You can completely label crime by religion and ethnicity. That is why it is utterly futile searching an 80 year old white European female prior to boarding an aircraft, because all known aircraft bombings have been carried out by Male muslims aged 18-35. If we profiled passengers we would stop the problem in stead of pussy footing around with the PC brigade as you are doing, and spending billions just because we don't want one group to feel 'picked on'.

I'm not wearing PC gloves I assure you. Ironically I belong to the one subgroup that does not have a widely used word for violence or prejudice against us. There is racism, homophobia, islamophobia etc. but if you attack a disabled person there is no word for it. Calling me 'ironsides' or 'metal mickey' etc. in the street in the UK will not get you a fine for abusing a person in a wheelchair, neither will tipping my wheelchair over unless I suffer injuries from it. Crimes against disabled people are normalised and not covered under the PC umbrella.

RE: other faiths etc. I know about Iran, how it is illegal to execute female virgins & so the Revolutionary Guard rape the woman first so that she can legally be executed as a non-virgin, for her "crime" - usually dressing or acting contra theocratic law. I know girls as young as 7 and 9 can become wives in Iran, and many thousands have died in childbirth age 11 when the female body has great difficulty bearing child successfully. We could discuss this all year. If you think I am so PC that I am not disgusted at this institutional barbarism and stone age misogeny then you truly are mistaken.

I also know about Christian Euro white people going to Africa and telling the uneducated masses to not wear condoms, in the middle of the AIDS crisis. Its a form of religious genocide.

I grew up in North England in big city with a large Pakistani community, and would say that I was mugged/burgled by whites, blacks & pakistanis in roughly equal numbers. I don't hold resentment to any of the specific races that comitted crime against me. They are educationally subnormal, drug addicts, plain stupid, lazy, arrogant or whatever take your pick. Crime is a social problem caused by ignorance & a failing marketplace. Crime is not a racial problem. Solving it requires good parenting (leading by example) & progressive schooling & a healthy jobs-market. My contention is that the UK & many parts of old Europe today lacks in all those categories.

[Colin Yai]

In general, immigration to a country is a privilege, not a right. It needs to be up to each country to determine the number of people it wants to allow to resettle and the qualities of those people. Part of that test may very well be the ability of the person to adjust to the existing culture.

Cultures can and do change over time, but rapid change is generally viewed as negative and hard for everyone to adjust to.

I found the quiet of a Sunday morning as easily disturbed by the ringing of Church bells as I do for the call to prayer.

IMHO unless there is momentous change in Attitude of Government thinking both Central and local of the "host Country" it will only get worse , 15 years ago there was no Halal meat served up at school meals often without the white indigenous parents knowledge , they still had Nativity Plays in Schools at Christmas now in many schools they have been "discontinued" , they still had Nursery Rhymes like 3 little pigs and Baa baa black sheep ,we could fly the flag of St George on "our day" Without some left wing Council ordering us to take them down, we could wear a Crucifix round our necks with being suspended from work , Christmas trimmings outside ones house were not frowned upon by certain left wing councils I could go on and on writing the truth but guess I stop as the truth causes so much offence these days don't it

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been removed as well as replies.

[Steely Dan]

In general, immigration to a country is a privilege, not a right. It needs to be up to each country to determine the number of people it wants to allow to resettle and the qualities of those people. Part of that test may very well be the ability of the person to adjust to the existing culture.

Cultures can and do change over time, but rapid change is generally viewed as negative and hard for everyone to adjust to.

I found the quiet of a Sunday morning as easily disturbed by the ringing of Church bells as I do for the call to prayer.

This is it in a nutshell. There is compelling evidence that contrary to assimilating over time the offspring of some immigrants are actually de-assimilating, this is a big problem and to a degree uncharted territory, until we have got immigrants to assimilate it is crazy to invite more in. The demographic projections based on birth rates have many variables to consider, but from personal experience having lived in London, Brussels, Amsterdam and Frankfurt I have seen first hand how inner city ghettos cause big crime and social problems, even in 1995 there were no go zones in Brussels, I can only imagine the situation has deteriorated since then.

Breivik's abhorrent actions do indeed highlight one fact, namely the cone of silence thrown around such issues.

[Colin Yai]

Yeah Dan you make a good point however has Gentleman correctly wrote in his post #52 do you not honestly think that part of the growing problem is treating it with PC gloves ,instead of stamping it out at the offset, I just wonder on a time scale how long it would be before I was frog marched to Bangkok airport and deported, if I burned the Thai flag and screamed out that the Thai military were murderers ,with my passport stamped "NEVER TO RETURN"

Edited April 22, 2012 by Colin Yai

[GentlemanJim]

I'm not wearing PC gloves I assure you. Ironically I belong to the one subgroup that does not have a widely used word for violence or prejudice against us. There is racism, homophobia, islamophobia etc. but if you attack a disabled person there is no word for it. Calling me 'ironsides' or 'metal mickey' etc. in the street in the UK will not get you a fine for abusing a person in a wheelchair, neither will tipping my wheelchair over unless I suffer injuries from it. Crimes against disabled people are normalised and not covered under the PC umbrella.

RE: other faiths etc. I know about Iran, how it is illegal to execute female virgins & so the Revolutionary Guard rape the woman first so that she can legally be executed as a non-virgin, for her "crime" - usually dressing or acting contra theocratic law. I know girls as young as 7 and 9 can become wives in Iran, and many thousands have died in childbirth age 11 when the female body has great difficulty bearing child successfully. We could discuss this all year. If you think I am so PC that I am not disgusted at this institutional barbarism and stone age misogeny then you truly are mistaken.

I also know about Christian Euro white people going to Africa and telling the uneducated masses to not wear condoms, in the middle of the AIDS crisis. Its a form of religious genocide.

I grew up in North England in big city with a large Pakistani community, and would say that I was mugged/burgled by whites, blacks & pakistanis in roughly equal numbers. I don't hold resentment to any of the specific races that comitted crime against me. They are educationally subnormal, drug addicts, plain stupid, lazy, arrogant or whatever take your pick. Crime is a social problem caused by ignorance & a failing marketplace. Crime is not a racial problem. Solving it requires good parenting (leading by example) & progressive schooling & a healthy jobs-market. My contention is that the UK & many parts of old Europe today lacks in all those categories.

Good post, you raise some interesting points. Getting the easiest out of the way first, I agree that religion is responsible today for state sponsored genocide. I say state because the vatican is a state. The Pope could stop the suffering of millions of men women and children in the future by the stroke of a pen or the whisper of a word, but he will not sanction contraception. The only way that Christianity and Islam can 'grow' and have a secure future is to breed lots and lots of followers plain and simple and that is why religious leaders are guilty of crimes against humanity and the planet.

Your last paragraph is most likable, and I have pondered on it a little. You say

Crime is a social problem caused by ignorance & a failing marketplace. Crime is not a racial problem. Solving it requires good parenting (leading by example) & progressive schooling & a healthy jobs-market. My contention is that the UK & many parts of old Europe today lacks in all those categories.

I would argue that in the UK, prior to the relentless, unchecked influx of immigrants that many good social systems were in place, and that with the arrival of millions of immigrants all with different demands the infrastructure simply could not cope with the Governments idea of some kind of multi cultural utopia. We had progressive schooling and a healthy jobs market. It was the Labour government that destroyed that job market in a bid to lower their costs. It was they that commenced the immigration program in a bid to get a cheaper workforce. Cheaper Doctors and Nurses, cheaper men to work in all Government owned enterprises, mines, railways, transportation. It was introduced with no thought and led to mass institutionalized racism. Enoch Powell was not racist when he warned of 'rivers of blood', he was bang on the money. It is coming. It was not just the failing of the market place that led to crime, it was the failing of the social fabric and infrastructure to cope with so many people from such diverse backgrounds and cultures (there is a reason why nature kept everyone separate by making them migrate across the world to areas of cultural similarity). The result was that those people who were desperately poor and under privileged took to forming their own communities and their own groups, complete with sub culture. The blacks, afro-caribean, asian peoples, suffered dreadfully in the UK 40 years ago, and it is coming back to bite our ass with avengeance. What the labour governments did was little more than glorified slave trading and it was replicated all over Europe.

The sad truth is that profiling actually does work. You are at more risk from some cultural and racial groups than others, but they are Frankensteins that have been created by our own Governments.

If you are unwilling to absorb yourself into the culture of a country you are moving to then you should not be admitted, we go on about it enough here on TV. I know that the cities 'in the North' do have unique social problems , they also have good aspects, such as you cannot get a better curry anywhere in the world than in Bradford The issues that Colin raises in his post number 53 get me absolutely incensed with anger, and as he astutely points out below, that crap is not tolerated elsewhere.

There were some jobs advertised recently for Heathrow airport an 'equal opportunities' employer, who operate under Government mandates to employ representative people from respective race and culture. The jobs were normal, manual and some clerical positions, but one job was open to Afro Carib's only, another needed Asian Pakistani, another needed Asian Indian! All to fill in the quotas mandated by the lefties. What happened to best person for the job? What happened to competition? What happens to the young white lad looking desperately for a job? What happens to my son in London who was told recently by the GOVERNMENT Job center, that he may have to accept less than minimum wage if he wanted a job with a certain employer, as that is what the legal immigrants do! The Met police have a black police officers federation, but cannot have a white one as that is deemed racist. The country is going mad and it is government sponsored insanity.

We have created this crock, and it can be pinned down to ethnicity, culture, religion and a number of other factors. The problem now is that I believe it is so out of control that there is no fixing it, and in order for me to allow my children to grow up in a safer environment in a country proud of their culture....i have had to move here, and I must absorb myself into this new culture, a sacrifice I willingly pay for my children. There is still crime sure, and it is me on the end of any racism, but it is nowhere near as bad as the UK was. The rules are simple though, I can come, I must behave, if I want to practice as a Doctor I must speak and write the language fluently, I am not permitted to be employed in Politics or law enforcement , i cannot take the land off the indigenous people etc etc, but under those conditions I accept. I cannot sponge off the state and the Thai tax payer, I cannot sit on my ass and claim 5K a month in welfare payments.

If you want to analyze this seriously, look at what is to be gained by mass disorder and anarchy in these leading European countries! Look at what the controlling banking families who engineer such social experiments have to gain. All such topics I would love to talk to you and a few others here on TV about over a beer.

The saddest thing is that it takes a cruel sadistic child killer and mass murderer to get people to talk about this and openly acknowledge the issues that exist.

Yeah Dan you make a good point however has Gentleman correctly wrote in his post #52 do you not honestly think that part of the growing problem is treating it with PC gloves ,instead of stamping it out at the offset, I just wonder on a time scale how long it would be before I was frog marched to Bangkok airport and deported, if I burned the Thai flag and screamed out that the Thai military were murderers ,with my passport stamped "NEVER TO RETURN"

Colin, the decision would take about a nano second, but the process would take about 10-15 years as that is how long they would put you in prison for!

[Colin Yai]

I'm not wearing PC gloves I assure you. Ironically I belong to the one subgroup that does not have a widely used word for violence or prejudice against us. There is racism, homophobia, islamophobia etc. but if you attack a disabled person there is no word for it. Calling me 'ironsides' or 'metal mickey' etc. in the street in the UK will not get you a fine for abusing a person in a wheelchair, neither will tipping my wheelchair over unless I suffer injuries from it. Crimes against disabled people are normalised and not covered under the PC umbrella.

RE: other faiths etc. I know about Iran, how it is illegal to execute female virgins & so the Revolutionary Guard rape the woman first so that she can legally be executed as a non-virgin, for her "crime" - usually dressing or acting contra theocratic law. I know girls as young as 7 and 9 can become wives in Iran, and many thousands have died in childbirth age 11 when the female body has great difficulty bearing child successfully. We could discuss this all year. If you think I am so PC that I am not disgusted at this institutional barbarism and stone age misogeny then you truly are mistaken.

I also know about Christian Euro white people going to Africa and telling the uneducated masses to not wear condoms, in the middle of the AIDS crisis. Its a form of religious genocide.

I grew up in North England in big city with a large Pakistani community, and would say that I was mugged/burgled by whites, blacks & pakistanis in roughly equal numbers. I don't hold resentment to any of the specific races that comitted crime against me. They are educationally subnormal, drug addicts, plain stupid, lazy, arrogant or whatever take your pick. Crime is a social problem caused by ignorance & a failing marketplace. Crime is not a racial problem. Solving it requires good parenting (leading by example) & progressive schooling & a healthy jobs-market. My contention is that the UK & many parts of old Europe today lacks in all those categories.

Good post, you raise some interesting points. Getting the easiest out of the way first, I agree that religion is responsible today for state sponsored genocide. I say state because the vatican is a state. The Pope could stop the suffering of millions of men women and children in the future by the stroke of a pen or the whisper of a word, but he will not sanction contraception. The only way that Christianity and Islam can 'grow' and have a secure future is to breed lots and lots of followers plain and simple and that is why religious leaders are guilty of crimes against humanity and the planet.

Your last paragraph is most likable, and I have pondered on it a little. You say

Crime is a social problem caused by ignorance & a failing marketplace. Crime is not a racial problem. Solving it requires good parenting (leading by example) & progressive schooling & a healthy jobs-market. My contention is that the UK & many parts of old Europe today lacks in all those categories.

I would argue that in the UK, prior to the relentless, unchecked influx of immigrants that many good social systems were in place, and that with the arrival of millions of immigrants all with different demands the infrastructure simply could not cope with the Governments idea of some kind of multi cultural utopia. We had progressive schooling and a healthy jobs market. It was the Labour government that destroyed that job market in a bid to lower their costs. It was they that commenced the immigration program in a bid to get a cheaper workforce. Cheaper Doctors and Nurses, cheaper men to work in all Government owned enterprises, mines, railways, transportation. It was introduced with no thought and led to mass institutionalized racism. Enoch Powell was not racist when he warned of 'rivers of blood', he was bang on the money. It is coming. It was not just the failing of the market place that led to crime, it was the failing of the social fabric and infrastructure to cope with so many people from such diverse backgrounds and cultures (there is a reason why nature kept everyone separate by making them migrate across the world to areas of cultural similarity). The result was that those people who were desperately poor and under privileged took to forming their own communities and their own groups, complete with sub culture. The blacks, afro-caribean, asian peoples, suffered dreadfully in the UK 40 years ago, and it is coming back to bite our ass with avengeance. What the labour governments did was little more than glorified slave trading and it was replicated all over Europe.

The sad truth is that profiling actually does work. You are at more risk from some cultural and racial groups than others, but they are Frankensteins that have been created by our own Governments.

If you are unwilling to absorb yourself into the culture of a country you are moving to then you should not be admitted, we go on about it enough here on TV. I know that the cities 'in the North' do have unique social problems , they also have good aspects, such as you cannot get a better curry anywhere in the world than in Bradford The issues that Colin raises in his post number 53 get me absolutely incensed with anger, and as he astutely points out below, that crap is not tolerated elsewhere.

There were some jobs advertised recently for Heathrow airport an 'equal opportunities' employer, who operate under Government mandates to employ representative people from respective race and culture. The jobs were normal, manual and some clerical positions, but one job was open to Afro Carib's only, another needed Asian Pakistani, another needed Asian Indian! All to fill in the quotas mandated by the lefties. What happened to best person for the job? What happened to competition? What happens to the young white lad looking desperately for a job? What happens to my son in London who was told recently by the GOVERNMENT Job center, that he may have to accept less than minimum wage if he wanted a job with a certain employer, as that is what the legal immigrants do! The Met police have a black police officers federation, but cannot have a white one as that is deemed racist. The country is going mad and it is government sponsored insanity.

We have created this crock, and it can be pinned down to ethnicity, culture, religion and a number of other factors. The problem now is that I believe it is so out of control that there is no fixing it, and in order for me to allow my children to grow up in a safer environment in a country proud of their culture....i have had to move here, and I must absorb myself into this new culture, a sacrifice I willingly pay for my children. There is still crime sure, and it is me on the end of any racism, but it is nowhere near as bad as the UK was. The rules are simple though, I can come, I must behave, if I want to practice as a Doctor I must speak and write the language fluently, I am not permitted to be employed in Politics or law enforcement , i cannot take the land off the indigenous people etc etc, but under those conditions I accept. I cannot sponge off the state and the Thai tax payer, I cannot sit on my ass and claim 5K a month in welfare payments.

If you want to analyze this seriously, look at what is to be gained by mass disorder and anarchy in these leading European countries! Look at what the controlling banking families who engineer such social experiments have to gain. All such topics I would love to talk to you and a few others here on TV about over a beer.

The saddest thing is that it takes a cruel sadistic child killer and mass murderer to get people to talk about this and openly acknowledge the issues that exist.

Yeah Dan you make a good point however has Gentleman correctly wrote in his post #52 do you not honestly think that part of the growing problem is treating it with PC gloves ,instead of stamping it out at the offset, I just wonder on a time scale how long it would be before I was frog marched to Bangkok airport and deported, if I burned the Thai flag and screamed out that the Thai military were murderers ,with my passport stamped "NEVER TO RETURN"

Colin, the decision would take about a nano second, but the process would take about 10-15 years as that is how long they would put you in prison for!

Hmm, yeah Jim I never thought about that

[folium]

This is going to be one of those trials where it is best if the media and everyone not associated with the trial are locked out. This guy will use the media absolutely cold heartedly in a bid to spread his message of madness and in doing so is about to instill yet another lifetime of hurt on all those parents who lost children and the families who lost loved ones, as he is going to describe how he murdered them as meaning absolutely nothing to him. For this man a huge punishment would be to silence him and not permit him on the stage that he so desperately wants to play on.

Actually publicity is often the best form of defeating extremism as it enables a wider audience to see just how ludicrous such people's warped views really are. If you censor them they can claim victim's status.

Transparency reveals more than most extremists wish for.

[Scott]

An off-topic, inflammatory post has been removed.

Stick to the topic. The topic is NOT your opinion of other posters.

[folium]

Breivik did not commit this crime because of Norway's immigration policy... he (as with other terrorists) committed this crime because he is a nutter... if there were no Muslims he would still have been a nutter and probably would still have committed this crime... but he would have blamed it on the some other "issue"

As can be seen by his testimony so far and the long term planning involved in these attacks, this is not the work of a "nutter". And while his actions and beliefs certainly would appear insane to any rational person capable of thought and reason, what we have is the "logical" endgame (at least to such people as Brievik) of extreme islamophobic, anti-immigration ideology.

Murdering fellow Norwegians he believed to be responsible for fostering multiculturalism and the creation of "Eurabia", makes "sense" to someone who has fallen hook, line & sinker for such drivel. This is the rationale behind all murderous terrorists of whatever political, religious or ethnic background.

[folium]

Further to my post Brit1984 , yeah I agree, thankfully Brevik was indeed a crazed loner ,and now that threat has been removed from Society ,the big problem with Radical Islam is that there are tens of thousands no one really knows how many, never the less they do exist world wide who wish to destroy our religion and way of life through mass murder and intimidation (Jihad) ,that is the simple truth of the matter nothing more nothing less .

Sadly Brievik is far from alone when it comes to believing in a dangerous, radical philosophy. The internet groans with devotees of the likes of Fjordman (Brievik's all time favourite and repeatedly quoted in his manifesto), Gates of Vienna, Vlad Tepes etc, and these devotees tend to be misfit, white, young males who can be "groomed" into terrorist actions by such dangerous philosophies.

Extremists, whether they be Timothy McVeigh (and his hatred of government), Baruch Goldstein & Eden Natan-Zada (followers of Kahanism) or David Copeland, Franz Fuchs, John Ausonius, & Anders Brievik (racism/Islamophobia), can lapse into terrorism when they fall for simplistic, nihilistic philosophies where violent acts appear to become a "logical" extension and next step.

If the Muslim world really has designs on other people's religions and way of life, they have been spectacularly unsuccessful to date. Eurabia is virtually impossible given the trajectory of demographics in Europe, and as I have asked before, please name any non-Muslim country that has been taken over by radical Islam since the height of the Ottoman empire in 1700.