Heathfield International School

[aridion]

I am not sure if I can name a school on this site or not. I know that I can't name people or other members by name. If this post is immflammatory or goes against forum rules please feel free to delete.

I am just finishing my PGCE and see that Heathfield International School is advertising for a Primary Teacher. I am quite interested in this position and am thinking of applying. However, I have never heard of Heathfield before and cannot really find much info. from their web site or from the net.

Anyone know of the school? Is it okay?

I presume they offer a decent expat teacher package.

Thanks in advance,

Aridion.

[Scott]

We don't allow 'name and shame' threads or posts, for legal reasons. Personally, I have heard of the school, but I know nothing about it.

The difficulty is that some schools are to the liking of one teacher, but not another. I would submit an application and then if your called for an interview, go and check it out.

[aridion]

I understand the 'name and shame' thing.

The problem is that I am in the UK and will be interviewed in the UK. So, I won't have a chance to visit the school.

[Scott]

If anyone has information about the school that might be less than flattering, then they can send a PM.

Best of luck. Of the teachers that I've met that worked at International schools, most have been reasonably happy with the schools. A lot of hard work, but not the problems associated with the local schools. Best of luck.

[LucidLucifer]

Have you tried to do some research on the TES teaching overseas forum? They will not allow any direct naming of schools, but the schools are named - albeit in a criptic fashion.

You could also check out the International Schools Review, although that will cost you money.

My one question for you is, are they really going to accept applications from NQTs who haven't completed their induction? Maybe that says something in itself.

If you did a year or two in the UK; got your induction year completed; made sure you got really involved in extra-curricular activities; and generally made a good name for yourself, much better jobs are out there for you.

Not getting your NQT year out the way may well harm you in the future.

Edited April 18, 2012 by LucidLucifer

[aridion]

It may harm me in the future. That is true. However, I have no intent on teaching in the UK as a career option.

I know that a few years at an international school can result in moving onto a 'better' international school.

[tonititan]

I don't know a whole lot about it, but from what I have heard, it's a so-so lower tier international school. There are a few reviews on the ISR website that was already mentioned, and none are glowing reports. A couple are quite negative. I had a friend who was offered a position there last year, and the salary & benefits package wasn't very good - about 30-60k baht/month less than what qualified teachers with only a couple years of experience could get at other international schools, and with significantly less benefits. You should definitely check on the benefits (flights at the beginning/end of contract, flights home in the summer, housing, insurance, visas, etc.).

You're right, it may be a good stepping stone to move to better international schools. Many of the good ones value international experience, so people often have to start at less desirable schools. But, just keep in mind that if you specifically want to be in Thailand and remain here, taking a job at Heathfield may not help your chances of moving to a better international school in BKK - it may actually hurt your chances. Most of the better schools prefer to hire internationally, and they either won't hire someone already working locally, or they will put you on a "local hire" package, not an overseas expat package. Some schools do make exceptions for highly valued/needed candidates, but primary teachers aren't in high demand, especially those with minimal experience. There is a free forum on the ISR website, and there is actually a discussion about this issue of moving schools going on right now (specific to Bangkok).

[LucidLucifer]

It may harm me in the future. That is true. However, I have no intent on teaching in the UK as a career option.

I know that a few years at an international school can result in moving onto a 'better' international school.

Not without induction completed and UK experience........competition is fierce, very fierce.

Tonititan is right about the expat hire packages compared to the local hire packages too. I understand your desire not to work within the UK, but IMHO, I think you're going about this in the wrong way.

Without UK experience, without your NQT year done, without a proven track record, you'll stuggle to get a job at a 'good' international school. I'll actually go as far as saying, you will not stand a chance of getting into one. I'll give you one good reason why not too - Just because you have a PGCE it does not mean that you are the finished article, however talented you may be. You don't get there that easily, you have much to learn. The good schools want someone who truly knows their stuff.

Good luck to you, but you may just need to stomach another couple of years in the UK for things to work out the way you want them to.

If you are still doubting this, I would really do your research. Look at the person specs that the better schools are seeking, do some reading on the TES forum, especially at the posts from people with xxx experience wondering why they cannot find a good job overseas. Also do a search something along the lines of 'how many applications does each job receive,' you'll soon discover it is about 100 for each primary post. You will really need to be the dogs b0ll0cks of an NQT to beat those odds (except maybe at Heathfield!!??).

[aridion]

Thank you for the detailed and informative responses LucidLucifer and tonititan. You have both made valid and excellent points.

My plan is this: I am willing to work in an international school that follows a British curriculum. I have had 2 offers for Qatar and Saudi Arabia. I have gone with the Saudi Arabian offer, as it presents an excellent potential to save cash and gain experience. Also the contract for the Saudi Arabian school is for 1 year, giving me the chance to return to the UK and try to find an NQT position if things don't work out to plan.

After a couple of years teaching in the ME, I plan to a) move to either a school in the ME that is higher up the pecking order, a school in, let's say China, that offers an IB curriculum, or c) a 'decent school in Thailand that can offer a fairly good contract. I am aiming for schools like Ascot, Regents etc.

I know that it is precarious to have such a set plan, but it is something that I definitely am aiming for and had planned to do even before I started this PGCE.

I am not sure if it is totally viable, but fromt he responses that I got on TES forum, it seems quite possible.

What are your opinions on this.

One of the reasons that I am thinking this way is also that it is very difficult to find an NQT post right now, in the area of England I am in.

[tonititan]

I think that sounds like a more realistic way of ending up at a decent/good school in Thailand. Sometimes you have to "pay your dues" in less desirable locations before ending up where you really want to be. Not being from the UK, I can't really comment on the PCGE/NQT issue because I am not familiar with your requirements, or how that could affect you in the future.

So did you accept the job in Saudi Arabia, or are you still considering applying for the Heathfield job?

[LucidLucifer]

I completely understand your point about finding work in the UK, it is not easy at the moment. Also, congratulations for securing a position, and I genuinely wish you the best of luck in your endeavours. From your posts you do sound like you are someone who knows what they want, and from a standpoint of selling yourself to schools in Thailand, that can only be a good thing.

As for whether it is possible, it is difficult for me to say with any certainty. I wouldn't say it was impossible, I just do not know. Different schools look for different things. Some want married older teachers with kids, others will choose the single 24 year old.

One question though, and I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but Is this Saudi school willing to do your induction for you?

[aridion]

I think that sounds like a more realistic way of ending up at a decent/good school in Thailand. Sometimes you have to "pay your dues" in less desirable locations before ending up where you really want to be. Not being from the UK, I can't really comment on the PCGE/NQT issue because I am not familiar with your requirements, or how that could affect you in the future.

So did you accept the job in Saudi Arabia, or are you still considering applying for the Heathfield job?

The NQT is a 'Newly Qualified Teacher' induction period in the UK for teachers that want to work in State schools int the UK. It comes after the PGCE and is mainly intended to help your transition to teach in UK state schools.

I do not have any ambition to work in UK state schools and did the PGCE for the purpose of becoming an International School Teacher. However, as Lucid Lucifer stated, it is desirable to have done the NQT year, especially if one is applying to British Curriculum international schools.

What I want to really know is would it be asked about after I have done a number of years on the international circuit. I have been told various accounts on this issue. One international school headteacher told me that after a few years teachign abroad he would not even ask about the NQT year, as he values good references and international experience when choosing his teachers. However, I am not sure if this goes for all, or even most headteachers and schools.

I have accepted the job in Saudi Arabia, however the visa process is taking ages. I was int contact with a few other teachers that were also offered a position at the school (they had 3 and 5 years experience in Enbgland). We haven't heard word from the school in 7 weeks, so we are a little bit apprehensive of commiting fully to this offer. As, I understand, the visa process can be a nightmare for working in Saudi Arabia. However the financial benefits are well known.

[aridion]

I completely understand your point about finding work in the UK, it is not easy at the moment. Also, congratulations for securing a position, and I genuinely wish you the best of luck in your endeavours. From your posts you do sound like you are someone who knows what they want, and from a standpoint of selling yourself to schools in Thailand, that can only be a good thing.

As for whether it is possible, it is difficult for me to say with any certainty. I wouldn't say it was impossible, I just do not know. Different schools look for different things. Some want married older teachers with kids, others will choose the single 24 year old.

One question though, and I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but Is this Saudi school willing to do your induction for you?

Thank you for your kind words.

The Saudi School will not do induction. At the moment there is a lot of rumour that some British International Schols can start to offer induction to NQT's from next year, as far as I know. These, however, are only the Schools that are part of COBIS.

To be honest, I am not too bothered about getting into the top tier schools. A second tier school, like the ones mentioned above with a 'decent' reputation would be great. I don't know if this is true or not, but I have been told that the 'top' schools demand more work and get their pound of flesh.

Edited April 19, 2012 by aridion

[LucidLucifer]

I can't help thinking you're shooting yourself in the foot without it. I think you'll rule yourself out of many, many jobs having not completed it. Also, if you do ever decide to return to the UK, you will need to complete induction, and that would mean starting on point 1 of the salary scale, even after maybe many years of experience.

[LucidLucifer]

To be honest, I am not too bothered about getting into the top tier schools. A second tier school, like the ones mentioned above with a 'decent' reputation would be great. I don't know if this is true or not, but I have been told that the 'top' schools demand more work and get their pound of flesh.

I've just come from a school in the UK that demanded considerably more than just a pound of flesh. They wanted your heart, body and soul too. What I will say is the better the school, the better the pay. I think it would be a mistake to presume that just becuase you are in a 'lower tier' school you'll have to work less.

[NormanW]

Take it from me, taking the Saudi job will be VERY tough for you given your position.

The best thing to do is follow in my footsteps and stay in England for at least 1 more year.

This then will be invaluable when applying for jobs here/anywhere as IT IS UK experience.

I did it and am now HOD which I'm sure I would not have got if I went to the ME straight after my PGCE.

Please reconsider.

Norman

[aridion]

I can't help thinking you're shooting yourself in the foot without it. I think you'll rule yourself out of many, many jobs having not completed it. Also, if you do ever decide to return to the UK, you will need to complete induction, and that would mean starting on point 1 of the salary scale, even after maybe many years of experience.

If I had NQT year done, and then return to UK 5 years later, would my Internatonal school experience count on the UK pay scale. I was under the impression it wouldn't.

[aridion]

Take it from me, taking the Saudi job will be VERY tough for you given your position.

The best thing to do is follow in my footsteps and stay in England for at least 1 more year.

This then will be invaluable when applying for jobs here/anywhere as IT IS UK experience.

I did it and am now HOD which I'm sure I would not have got if I went to the ME straight after my PGCE.

Please reconsider.

Norman

Are you teaching in the UK now? If not how many years did you teach there, to land a HOD position internationally?

[LucidLucifer]

I can't help thinking you're shooting yourself in the foot without it. I think you'll rule yourself out of many, many jobs having not completed it. Also, if you do ever decide to return to the UK, you will need to complete induction, and that would mean starting on point 1 of the salary scale, even after maybe many years of experience.

If I had NQT year done, and then return to UK 5 years later, would my Internatonal school experience count on the UK pay scale. I was under the impression it wouldn't.

If you were in a recognised British Curriculum school, sure it would.

[aridion]

I've just come from a school in the UK that demanded considerably more than just a pound of flesh.

Were you teaching there?

[NormanW]

Take it from me, taking the Saudi job will be VERY tough for you given your position.

The best thing to do is follow in my footsteps and stay in England for at least 1 more year.

This then will be invaluable when applying for jobs here/anywhere as IT IS UK experience.

I did it and am now HOD which I'm sure I would not have got if I went to the ME straight after my PGCE.

Please reconsider.

Norman

Are you teaching in the UK now? If not how many years did you teach there, to land a HOD position internationally?

A year in England and after 2 years teaching here (Thailand) I got the HOD. 6 years in total to date.

[LucidLucifer]

I've just come from a school in the UK that demanded considerably more than just a pound of flesh.

Were you teaching there?

Yes I was. When I joined the school 4 years ago they were in an OFSTED notice to improve. There was a complete turn-over of teaching staff, and when I mean complete, it was total, from head down.

Within 3 months of us all arriving, when the inspectors came calling again, we had managed to get it to satisfactory. In 3 years from satisfactory to good with outstanding features. We missed out on outstanding mainly on historical data, there was nothing we could do about that.

In the last year I was there, the pursuit of outstanding became such an obsession for the head and deputy, that they made our lives hell with workload. I can understand that they wanted the best for the children at the school, so did we all. But mine (and many others) believed their obsession was more about their own career aspirations.

While we all worked our <deleted> off every night and every weekend, they swanned off home just after 4pm most nights. There was many a conversation about what the pair of them did all day, because both of them were non-teaching. I used to say that all they did all day was invent new hairbrained schemes, and then decide who to deligate the workload to. I don't think that was too far from the truth.

In summary, yes it was hard work.

[aridion]

Take it from me, taking the Saudi job will be VERY tough for you given your position.

The best thing to do is follow in my footsteps and stay in England for at least 1 more year.

This then will be invaluable when applying for jobs here/anywhere as IT IS UK experience.

I did it and am now HOD which I'm sure I would not have got if I went to the ME straight after my PGCE.

Please reconsider.

Norman

Are you teaching in the UK now? If not how many years did you teach there, to land a HOD position internationally?

A year in England and after 2 years teaching here (Thailand) I got the HOD. 6 years in total to date.

So, the NQT year was a big advantage then? Are a lot of the International schools (Thai) that advertise on TES willing to take on teachers who have one years experience in the UK?

[LucidLucifer]

Most of the adverts seemed to specify two years minimum. My employers asked me for a letter from my old school to say I had been teaching over three years. According to them three years was the minimum in order to obtain a teaching license and work permit. I know this to be not necessarily true. But TiT, so who does know?

[aridion]

Most of the adverts seemed to specify two years minimum. My employers asked me for a letter from my old school to say I had been teaching over three years. According to them three years was the minimum in order to obtain a teaching license and work permit. I know this to be not necessarily true. But TiT, so who does know?

Was this with C****** International? I have a colleauge at this school.

I know that you do not need 3 years minimum to get a work permit or a teachers license. I have taught in Thailand for 5 years previously to this PGCE year.

[aridion]

While we all worked our <deleted> off every night and every weekend .

I hear a lot of teachers that are doing just this. Definitely something I am not prepared to do for a career that pays quite modestly. I don't mind having to stay back to 6pm to get ready for the next day. However, when it leads into your weekends being taken over and not wrapping up your evenings work until 10 or 11pm, then it becomes rather unhealthy, mentally and physically.

[LucidLucifer]

Most of the adverts seemed to specify two years minimum. My employers asked me for a letter from my old school to say I had been teaching over three years. According to them three years was the minimum in order to obtain a teaching license and work permit. I know this to be not necessarily true. But TiT, so who does know?

Was this with C****** International? I have a colleauge at this school.

I know that you do not need 3 years minimum to get a work permit or a teachers license. I have taught in Thailand for 5 years previously to this PGCE year.

No it isn't.

I also knew it to be true, i was here from 2002-2006 teaching. Things have changed, and are changing all the time (hence the use of knew). I haven't kept abreast of what the new regulations are, as fortunately they don't apply to me anymore.

By the book, maybe it is true, but you know Thailand, by the book means very little.

[aridion]

Most of the adverts seemed to specify two years minimum. My employers asked me for a letter from my old school to say I had been teaching over three years. According to them three years was the minimum in order to obtain a teaching license and work permit. I know this to be not necessarily true. But TiT, so who does know?

Was this with C****** International? I have a colleauge at this school.

I know that you do not need 3 years minimum to get a work permit or a teachers license. I have taught in Thailand for 5 years previously to this PGCE year.

No it isn't.

I also knew it to be true, i was here from 2002-2006 teaching. Things have changed, and are changing all the time (hence the use of knew). I haven't kept abreast of what the new regulations are, as fortunately they don't apply to me anymore.

By the book, maybe it is true, but you know Thailand, by the book means very little.

So from now on, teachers need at least 3 years experience to work in an international school. I doubt that very much.

[aridion]

I have sent a few applications to UK schools. Hopefully might get an interview.

And to think I only came on here for advice on Heathfield...

[NormanW]

I have sent a few applications to UK schools. Hopefully might get an interview.

And to think I only came on here for advice on Heathfield...hahah I know, unreal eh?

Great stuff, short term you'll regret it due to the English bullshit but my oh my will it serve you well after you finish with England.

Good luck.