OK, with the advent of no less than a hundred quakes off the Sunda plate in the last 4-5 days, it might be time to review or discuss what RESCUE options are available to those on and off Phuket island.

Tsunami:

Phuket is in the direct path of a tsunami coming off the Sumatran coast should another significant Megathrust earthquake occur. (Megathrust = up/down waves caused by subduction (tectonic plates such as the Sunda plate tucking over/under other tectonic plates).

Massive Quake:

Just as there are Aftershocks, there are Foreshocks.

Phuket already felt the impact of what may become recognized as one of the largest strike-slip (these are side-to-side motions, no tsunamis but buildings collapse) quakes ever recorded off Northern Sumatra on or about April 11th. Just as aftershocks. It even had it's own historic quake, probably from faults underneath that were affected by the Northern Sumatran plate movements.

The mass cluster of quakes is visible here: http://earthquake.us...arthquakes/map/

As we have seen before, phones go down, power goes out, and when any of it restored, the first priority to to have people on the ground communicating in various languages where and what type of help is most needed.

The Thai authorities involved will be of limited assistance, so it might be prudent to discuss what works only, and not what didn't work or is predictably inefficient.

Massive Landslides:

Perhaps the greatest potential danger in the very near future is from landslides when the monsoon season begins. These would arise from weakened ground structure from the recent Phuket-based quake, as well as from all the subsequent aftershocks from it and the more distant quakes in the area. The rain waters will erode what's left of the ground support and entire structures will slide and/or be buried. This year it will likely happen on a larger scale than usual.

If one occurs in a significantly populated area, this would be the type of rescue operation that would involve digging out victims, stabilizing them for transport, and providing immediate EVAC.

What mechanisms exist for such an event?

Are there foreign-run volunteer organizations? (please save the work-permit and visa chatter for another topic pls.)

What's the plan?

What are all the embassy phone numbers?

Can International Red Cross help?

I'm sure there are veteran posters on here who could lend info, and perhaps even more importantly, long-term expats who can organize albeit unofficially to be ready to help in specific ways (who's got VHF radios, digging equipment, medical expertise, etc?).

Be it quake, tsunami, or landslide, it's better to plan for the most important job: preserving life.

Any comments? Please stick to the topic and the goal, hint: rescue operations/advance planning.

Edited April 18, 201214 yr by saanya

Excellent Post, but in reality , this is Thailand... there is no real planning... why would they invest into something that might not happen? ( health and safty and forth thinking doesnt excist here ! ) .....

This might be better over in the Phuket forum. OK?

The authorities have made it quite plain that foreign volunteers need a work permit.

Ignoring the issue of work-permits, volunteers should work under the direction of professionals.

Unskilled volunteers can cause more problems and deaths.

For instance, if you free a person that has had their legs trapped by debris for more than a few hours, you will kill them. Not common knowledge, but, a professional will know that.

Please do not take this as a nasty swipe, but the reality is that in the event of a catastrophe everyone is on their own for a minimum of 72 hours until foreign governments come to evacuate their nationals. I keep sufficient emergency food and water supplies on hand for that time period. However, a strong quake would level my place in Patong or prevent me from entering the structure.. If the quake occurred at night, you might find me under a pile of concrete rotting.

Local emergency response assets are limited. There isn't much equipment, no proper logistics system, almost no airlift and an existing predisposition to panic, chaos and selfishness. Look at the response during the floods. How long did it take the government and the military to organize the evacuations and care for the refugees?

The USA, Israel, China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Australia/NZ should be able to respond within 48-72 hours. All of the other EU nationals, Canada India etc will have a nice long wait. Many western countries will pool for charter flights in the event of a crisis. Look at the evacuations from Libya. Canadian and UK charters were ferrying out EU nationals and Americans under the informal assistance arrangements. On the other hand, Africans, Pakistanis, and others might as well give up as no one is coming to help them.

As many TVFers have no use for nanny states or their homeland governments, this time lapse will not be a concern.

Ignoring the issue of work-permits, volunteers should work under the direction of professionals.

Unskilled volunteers can cause more problems and deaths.

For instance, if you free a person that has had their legs trapped by debris for more than a few hours, you will kill them. Not common knowledge, but, a professional will know that.

LOL. Not at all. It all depends on what the injuries are. Appropriately applied tourniquets are better than allowing someone to bleed out or to have exposed bones. Tell you what, I pomise to leave you in the rubble, however, for others, I will make an effort to help them.

LOL. Not at all. It all depends on what the injuries are. Appropriately applied tourniquets are better than allowing someone to bleed out or to have exposed bones. Tell you what, I pomise to leave you in the rubble, however, for others, I will make an effort to help them.

Ignoring the issue of work-permits, volunteers should work under the direction of professionals.

Unskilled volunteers can cause more problems and deaths.

For instance, if you free a person that has had their legs trapped by debris for more than a few hours, you will kill them. Not common knowledge, but, a professional will know that.

LOL. Not at all. It all depends on what the injuries are. Appropriately applied tourniquets are better than allowing someone to bleed out or to have exposed bones. Tell you what, I pomise to leave you in the rubble, however, for others, I will make an effort to help them.

Good post and made me chuckle!!

So releasing a person who has had his legs trapped for a few hours will kill them? leaving them there will surely do that!!

lol any tourniquets applied should be released after 15mins, leaving for longer than that will cause major problems!!

Edited April 19, 201214 yr by kawapower

Please do not take this as a nasty swipe, but the reality is that in the event of a catastrophe everyone is on their own for a minimum of 72 hours until foreign governments come to evacuate their nationals. I keep sufficient emergency food and water supplies on hand for that time period. However, a strong quake would level my place in Patong or prevent me from entering the structure.. If the quake occurred at night, you might find me under a pile of concrete rotting.

Local emergency response assets are limited. There isn't much equipment, no proper logistics system, almost no airlift and an existing predisposition to panic, chaos and selfishness. Look at the response during the floods. How long did it take the government and the military to organize the evacuations and care for the refugees?

The USA, Israel, China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Australia/NZ should be able to respond within 48-72 hours. All of the other EU nationals, Canada India etc will have a nice long wait. Many western countries will pool for charter flights in the event of a crisis. Look at the evacuations from Libya. Canadian and UK charters were ferrying out EU nationals and Americans under the informal assistance arrangements. On the other hand, Africans, Pakistanis, and others might as well give up as no one is coming to help them.

As many TVFers have no use for nanny states or their homeland governments, this time lapse will not be a concern.

I think the fact that the Thai Government turned down the offer of assistance from an American Navy ship during the Bangkok floods says it all.

Ignoring the issue of work-permits, volunteers should work under the direction of professionals.

Unskilled volunteers can cause more problems and deaths.

For instance, if you free a person that has had their legs trapped by debris for more than a few hours, you will kill them. Not common knowledge, but, a professional will know that.

LOL. Not at all. It all depends on what the injuries are. Appropriately applied tourniquets are better than allowing someone to bleed out or to have exposed bones. Tell you what, I pomise to leave you in the rubble, however, for others, I will make an effort to help them.

Good post and made me chuckle!!

So releasing a person who has had his legs trapped for a few hours will kill them? leaving them there will surely do that!!

lol any tourniquets applied should be released after 15mins, leaving for longer than that will cause major problems!!

I think my post has been misunderstood. It is in regard to crush injuries.

All cells produce toxins which are normally carried by the bloodstream to the liver and kidneys to be processed.

If there is no circulation, these toxins build up. When the person is released, circulation is restored and the huge build-up of toxins reaches the heart and brain, killing the patient.

If a person is still alive after a few hours, as I said in my post, then they obviously haven't bled out.

For instance, if you free a person that has had their legs trapped by debris for more than a few hours, you will kill them. Not common knowledge, but, a professional will know that.

It's true. Crush injuries (or rhabdomyolisis - similar to myopathy that can be caused by statins for the cholesterol mob) can be caused by any part of the body being trapped, most commonly the arms & legs. Australia had a big train crash in 1977 where many died of this 'crush' injury. It was poorly understood then. Lots of research done since.

I find it disturbing to see news clips of people pulled from rubble, handed like a bucket brigade to the nearest ambulance. Shock is another problem both in this instance & where people are still trapped. They are often given IV fluids in situ, tourniquets applied & then removed. Strong pain killers are part of the mix too...

Needs training by experts. Not rocket science.

Phuket sounds like it needs an earthquake plan stuck behind every door. Apparently this is the case in San Francisco and other places on the San Andreas fault. Perhaps some US expats can expand.

I'm a former combat-medic, as well as trained in other forms of rescue, -and yes, non-professionals CAN help. This isn't a debate about which treatment is best, this is more about digging, driving evac, delivering supplies, communicating, translating, and the hundred other things that are needed.

While I agree Thailand's emergency infrastructure is [comparatively] ill-suited and even unwilling in many cases to focus on rescue of foreigners (we all know from the floods, the new leadership doesn't want any help unless it's secret help from their Chinese Overlords), that is precisely why I am writing this. They are in Bangkok. So screw them, -the leadership just sat around saying nothing was wrong, and was mystified that their magic red powers of persuasion fell on deaf ears as various neighbourhoods re-routed flood waters to the neighbourhood next to them. Besides Phuket is known as Yellow, the Reds in power would sit by happily and let Phuket wither away much as they did first time around.

Most Thais will happily work with you and hide you from the authorities because you helped them dig out their relatives. They're not stupid. It's an e-m-e-r-g-e-n-c-y.

There needs to be a plan, -all people, Thai or foreigner, know they are on their own.

There are a few expat clubs throughout Thailand, many of which have ex-military expats in them, -this preliminary plan will get better traction there as they understand 'making plans, preparing, taking action' simply out of rote experience.

Sorry, but I'm being deliberately negative here.

This is all 'good stuff' but you need sanction and support from the authorites, should you ever wish to act. No matter how well intentioned, an organised group of foreigners, or even Thai locals, won't be able to override whatever 'plan' the authorites will implement during such an event.

You'll be standing there with your first aid and shovels, medical evac in pick-ups, and whatever ........ and the police, guards etc simply won;t let you enter any 'disaster area'.

That's the practicalities of your meritous suggestion, I'm afraid.

If you wish to help, then I suggest you join something like the Kusoldharm Foundation. They will welcome foreigners, and with your knowledge, you may be able to really improve their response.

Geriatrickid is about right here - you will generally be on your own after a catastrophe. There are Thai emergency rescue/civil defence groups, but most (not all) of the volunteers in these groups are unskilled 'helpers'.

One immediate problem after a disaster is lack of communication. If mobile networks are still working, they will be jammed solid with anxious callers. (Just look what happened last week). Internet links may also be down.

For my own (small) part, I operate my shortwave amateur radio equipment from my 4x4 vehicle, which has global voice and digital comms capabilities, (the radio, not the car...)

After the tsunami in 2004, the only communication link off the island for the first few hours was via shortwave radio provided by an Italian 'ham' in Phuket. (I was in BKK at the time).

So the comms facility that I can provide does not rely on any other 'helpers'. and that's about the best that I can provide in a disaster situation.

Simon

Edited April 20, 201214 yr by simon43

Interesting post, If i was still living in Phuket i would be all for joining a group of like minded expats. With experience as a volunteer ambulance officer, knowledge how to operate many types of rescue equipment from jaws of life to excavators my assistance would put to good use.... getting us coordinated and operational in emergency situations is the key to preventing undue loss of life. I suggest starting a club. A recent post in issues and answer in the PG:

“Anyone can start a social club and it does not need to be registered, as long as you do not disturb other people. If you can take care of each other within the club there will not be a problem.

Since you do not have to register the club it does not matter if club members have work permits or not. You will be allowed to sell club products and charge membership fees, but only as long as you take care of each other and do not disturb anyone else.

If you are a foreigner and you want to register an official social club, then you must be qualified. The exact qualifications are dependent on the size and activities of your proposed club. Of course, once you have registered you must detail your club’s income to the Revenue Department to see if it is necessary to pay taxes.

You are welcome to come into the Phuket District Office and talk with us in person to explain the purpose of your club and get the details of the qualifications needed for your case. For more information, please come and see us at 267, Mae Luan road, Muang Phuket 83000. We are open from Monday-Friday, 8:30-4:30.”

Suksan Siangeak, Muang Phuket district Administrative Officer (Palad).

Geriatrickid is about right here - you will generally be on your own after a catastrophe. There are Thai emergency rescue/civil defence groups, but most (not all) of the volunteers in these groups are unskilled 'helpers'.

One immediate problem after a disaster is lack of communication. If mobile networks are still working, they will be jammed solid with anxious callers. (Just look what happened last week). Internet links may also be down.

For my own (small) part, I operate my shortwave amateur radio equipment from my 4x4 vehicle, which has global voice and digital comms capabilities, (the radio, not the car...)

After the tsunami in 2004, the only communication link off the island for the first few hours was via shortwave radio provided by an Italian 'ham' in Phuket. (I was in BKK at the time).

So the comms facility that I can provide does not rely on any other 'helpers'. and that's about the best that I can provide in a disaster situation.

Simon

Are you saying the Navel base here had no communications and only a ham radio operator did

Are you saying the Navel base here had no communications and only a ham radio operator did

Peter, I don't know what comms facilities the naval base has, but I do know that the only comms channel available after the tsunami was via HF (short-wave), and provided by a radio 'ham'. If the Thai navy had HF comms, then it was not made publically available...

Don't be fooled into thinking that just because you have a shortwave transceiver, you can contact anyone else from 20-20,000km away. For many HF comms set-ups the signal would 'bounce' straight over Bangkok and be received by Igor in Moscow

Anyway I digress. What I wanted to emphasize is that shortwave radio comms (and ham radio capabilities) are recognised by many disaster aid organisations as of primary importance in the aftermath of a major disaster. As a 'techie' and radio ham, I try to ensure that my transceivers can be put to good use, such as direct voice and data contact with BKK or further afield, direct contact with overseas emergency organisations from my handheld 'walkie-talkie', (using Echolink), submission of survivor data via digital shortwave comms etc etc

Simon

Edited April 22, 201214 yr by simon43

Navies have contact with there ships and other navel bases all the time

anywhere in the world, Phuket has a navel base and they can contact govt

agencies anywhere in Thailand

Are you saying the Navel base here had no communications and only a ham radio operator did

Peter, I don't know what comms facilities the naval base has, but I do know that the only comms channel available after the tsunami was via HF (short-wave), and provided by a radio 'ham'. If the Thai navy had HF comms, then it was not made publically available...

Don't be fooled into thinking that just because you have a shortwave transceiver, you can contact anyone else from 20-20,000km away. For many HF comms set-ups the signal would 'bounce' straight over Bangkok and be received by Igor in Moscow

Anyway I digress. What I wanted to emphasize is that shortwave radio comms (and ham radio capabilities) are recognised by many disaster aid organisations as of primary importance in the aftermath of a major disaster. As a 'techie' and radio ham, I try to ensure that my transceivers can be put to good use, such as direct voice and data contact with BKK or further afield, direct contact with overseas emergency organisations from my handheld 'walkie-talkie', (using Echolink), submission of survivor data via digital shortwave comms etc etc

Simon

Simon. What would a basic set-up cost, and where can you get them. Do you need to be licensed here, like in the US?

Shot - getting a Thai 'ham' licence is either relatively easy or very difficult!

If you already hold a ham licence from a few overseas countries, such as the USA, UK, Germany, then you can easily get a reciprocal licence. If you do not fall into that category, then you have to take the ham exams in written Thai!

For most foreigners, it's therefore almost impossible for them to legally operate radio comms equipment in Thailand, except for the 'CB' red radios which operate on a non-standard 245 MHz band, and which provide very limited coverage, (there are no 'repeater' relay stations to boost the signal)

Simon