Book Notes CIA-Thai Link

[softgeorge]

Yes but the U.S do not consider this extreem but purely asking the victim a reasonable question. Now if someone was to use the same technique on a U.S citizen just watch the outcry. The U.S are accountatble to no one and they know it. If you speak out against them then you will get your face slapped

Not sure whether naivete or stupidity best describes what you have written. That gritty feeling in your eyes and ears is from the sand where your head is buried. To suggest that the USA is running around torturing people without provocation--and that using the same technique on a U.S. citizen would evoke an outcry--shows a gross ignorance of facts and trivializes the beheadings, the three thousand World Trade Center murders, and a whole list of other jihadist atrocities.

Still, those Americans defend your right to be ignorant and say what you will and they can only laugh at isolated rogue ignorance knowing that it is not a reflection on the countries from which such rogue ignorance has come; and that said countries are barely able to defend themselves in peacetime from immigration and economic aggression, let alone defend themselves against an imminent threat. First sign of trouble and out goes the call, "Uncle Sam, please-please help us, we are so scared."

I am Australian and the U.S doesn't defend my rights and as far as economic aggression goes the U.S economy is in disaray and the Australian one is the strongest in world without any help from the U.S. The Australian forefathers fought for our rights and freedoms. It is only the U.S who has thier heads stuck in the sand and can't see thier dark side and trying to throw a little sugar on it doe's not make it right. It is a whole lot easier to see things from the outside. I am speaking of the U.S government and not the people whom I am sure are decent in thier own way. If one side stoops to the lows of the other then they are just as bad and the U.S has stooped way down.

[h90]

Yes but the U.S do not consider this extreem but purely asking the victim a reasonable question. Now if someone was to use the same technique on a U.S citizen just watch the outcry. The U.S are accountatble to no one and they know it. If you speak out against them then you will get your face slapped

Not sure whether naivete or stupidity best describes what you have written. That gritty feeling in your eyes and ears is from the sand where your head is buried. To suggest that the USA is running around torturing people without provocation--and that using the same technique on a U.S. citizen would evoke an outcry--shows a gross ignorance of facts and trivializes the beheadings, the three thousand World Trade Center murders, and a whole list of other jihadist atrocities.

Still, those Americans defend your right to be ignorant and say what you will and they can only laugh at isolated rogue ignorance knowing that it is not a reflection on the countries from which such rogue ignorance has come; and that said countries are barely able to defend themselves in peacetime from immigration and economic aggression, let alone defend themselves against an imminent threat. First sign of trouble and out goes the call, "Uncle Sam, please-please help us, we are so scared."

Thank you, but I don't need Americans to defend my rights in Libya, Iraq, Syria or Iran. Specially as these countries didn't attack me or anyone else. As well the first 3 were Socialists and against radical Muslims.

And don't forget that your Jihadists are US trained and honored freedom fighters (at least they were called so when the Soviets called them Terrorists).

And if you think a bit more than you'll see that the Americans are also victims from their regime.

[bigbamboo]

Yes but the U.S do not consider this extreem but purely asking the victim a reasonable question. Now if someone was to use the same technique on a U.S citizen just watch the outcry. The U.S are accountatble to no one and they know it. If you speak out against them then you will get your face slapped

Not sure whether naivete or stupidity best describes what you have written. That gritty feeling in your eyes and ears is from the sand where your head is buried. To suggest that the USA is running around torturing people without provocation--and that using the same technique on a U.S. citizen would evoke an outcry--shows a gross ignorance of facts and trivializes the beheadings, the three thousand World Trade Center murders, and a whole list of other jihadist atrocities.

Still, those Americans defend your right to be ignorant and say what you will and they can only laugh at isolated rogue ignorance knowing that it is not a reflection on the countries from which such rogue ignorance has come; and that said countries are barely able to defend themselves in peacetime from immigration and economic aggression, let alone defend themselves against an imminent threat. First sign of trouble and out goes the call, "Uncle Sam, please-please help us, we are so scared."

You're quite right. That happened in WW2. Fighting against the odds against oppressive fascism the call went out for help and after a couple of years of thought and profit taking Uncle Sam finally hauled ass!

Edited April 26, 2012 by bigbamboo

[chooka]

Yes but the U.S do not consider this extreem but purely asking the victim a reasonable question. Now if someone was to use the same technique on a U.S citizen just watch the outcry. The U.S are accountatble to no one and they know it. If you speak out against them then you will get your face slapped

Not sure whether naivete or stupidity best describes what you have written. That gritty feeling in your eyes and ears is from the sand where your head is buried. To suggest that the USA is running around torturing people without provocation--and that using the same technique on a U.S. citizen would evoke an outcry--shows a gross ignorance of facts and trivializes the beheadings, the three thousand World Trade Center murders, and a whole list of other jihadist atrocities.

Still, those Americans defend your right to be ignorant and say what you will and they can only laugh at isolated rogue ignorance knowing that it is not a reflection on the countries from which such rogue ignorance has come; and that said countries are barely able to defend themselves in peacetime from immigration and economic aggression, let alone defend themselves against an imminent threat. First sign of trouble and out goes the call, "Uncle Sam, please-please help us, we are so scared."

Sorry my friend this puppy will never drop to his knees and worship the all mighty U.S, he bows to no dictator no matter how powerful he thinks he may be. Americans do not defend the rights of Australia, try to impose on the rights of Australia maybe but not defend our rights.

[TPI]

Hang on didn't the U.S strongly deny they had any such thing in Thailand and torturing of people was not the American way? Either this guy is lying or the prim and proper U.S.A is lying. Either way I think this guy is going to be in a lot of trouble and the U.S are not going to like what he is saying. "Dead man Walking"

Waterboarding isn't considered by most as torture. Much ado about nothing really. This will certainly bring out the USA haters and cry babies. The author is perfectly safe and the sky is not falling.

Question? Do you really understand what "waterboarding " is all about? If its as harmless as you suggest why don't we get together with an elevated plank, a few rags, a couple of buckets of water you can lie down and I'll pour...OK?

[bigbamboo]

Hang on didn't the U.S strongly deny they had any such thing in Thailand and torturing of people was not the American way? Either this guy is lying or the prim and proper U.S.A is lying. Either way I think this guy is going to be in a lot of trouble and the U.S are not going to like what he is saying. "Dead man Walking"

Waterboarding isn't considered by most as torture. Much ado about nothing really. This will certainly bring out the USA haters and cry babies. The author is perfectly safe and the sky is not falling.

Question? Do you really understand what "waterboarding " is all about? If its as harmless as you suggest why don't we get together with an elevated plank, a few rags, a couple of buckets of water you can lie down and I'll pour...OK?

It's American Songkran, only less dangerous to your health.

[mesquite]

What the US did was not torture but hazing. Every frat guy in the US has gone through something similar. Not really a big deal, but big enough to get us some key information.

Have I ever gone through it? No. Would I like to? No. I didn't even join a fraternity and I avoid Songkran.

Edited April 26, 2012 by mesquite

[Docno]

Yes but the U.S do not consider this extreem but purely asking the victim a reasonable question. Now if someone was to use the same technique on a U.S citizen just watch the outcry. The U.S are accountatble to no one and they know it. If you speak out against them then you will get your face slapped

Not sure whether naivete or stupidity best describes what you have written. That gritty feeling in your eyes and ears is from the sand where your head is buried. To suggest that the USA is running around torturing people without provocation--and that using the same technique on a U.S. citizen would evoke an outcry--shows a gross ignorance of facts and trivializes the beheadings, the three thousand World Trade Center murders, and a whole list of other jihadist atrocities.

Still, those Americans defend your right to be ignorant and say what you will and they can only laugh at isolated rogue ignorance knowing that it is not a reflection on the countries from which such rogue ignorance has come; and that said countries are barely able to defend themselves in peacetime from immigration and economic aggression, let alone defend themselves against an imminent threat. First sign of trouble and out goes the call, "Uncle Sam, please-please help us, we are so scared."

You're not getting a whole lot of support for these questionable claims, are you? As for the double standard you deny ("...using the same technique on a U.S. citizen would evoke an outcry...", you deny), I seem to recall that a few months ago that there was outrage in the US about the targeted killing-by-drone of a US citizen who was openly aiding enemies of your nation, Apparently, for many Americans, it's OK to kill foreigners on foreign territory (without trial), but not OK to do the same to Americans doing precisely the same thing. Sounds like hypocrisy to me...

Someone beat me to the WWII bit... that the Americans stayed out for years then took credit for victory. Same could be said for WWI....

[sparebox2]

The book is too.

Mark already said no US prison in Thailand last year.

[pimay11]

I personally don't give a rats arse what any of you "oh this is terrible" guys and gals think of waterboarding. It works and it should be done to every <snip> terrorist on this earth if they don't agree to tell what they know about the next round of mayhem that is planned to kill innocent men, women and children. You guys should all have to witness the body parts of children in the street or the trees as I saw in Afghanistan. Then maybe just maybe you would start thinking a little different. If waterboarding happend here I say good for Thailand.

Edited April 26, 2012 by metisdead

[h90]

I personally don't give a rats arse what any of you "oh this is terrible" guys and gals think of waterboarding. It works and it should be done to every <snip> terrorist on this earth if they don't agree to tell what they know about the next round of mayhem that is planned to kill innocent men, women and children. You guys should all have to witness the body parts of children in the street or the trees as I saw in Afghanistan. Then maybe just maybe you would start thinking a little different. If waterboarding happend here I say good for Thailand.

a) it is proved that it does not work. The informations under torture are meaningless, as people simply tell anything so it stops.

the problem is that it is also or mainly done to people who aren't terrorists and there is a good percentage that turned into terrorists after.

USA is producing terrorists since the Soviets were in Afghanistan.

c) If you torture random people, you are a terrorist, not fighting it.

d) in Afghanistan the people see the Taliban already as protector against the cruel westerners.

[h90]

The book is too.

Mark already said no US prison in Thailand last year.

Mark lied

Samak lied

Can't recall if Surayud said something

Thaksin lied

USA must pay good

[Johpa]

For an informed opinion on the effectiveness of waterboarding one should read Ali Soufan's book The Black Banners. Basically he finds waterboarding useless as an interogation technique and the CIA people who advocated the use of the technique, such as Mr. Rodriguez, to be dimwits although Soufan is much more polite in his wording. He also notes that as uncomfortable as it is, on a relative scale to techniques used in other countries, waterboarding just barely qualifies as torture. The book is a good read and there are a number of interview videos with Mr. Soufan to be found online.

[sawadeeken]

In MY humble opinion, it boils down to: do you want to win -- or waste your time? There are too many 'no goods' (including terrorists) that hide behind our protective laws and do their dirty work. I think if there is strong suspicion that somebody wants to hurt us (or anybody) then do what is needed to get whatever info that will protect innocents from being 'their' target. like I say, do we want to let them win, or do we want to.

[sawadeeken]

I personally don't give a rats arse what any of you "oh this is terrible" guys and gals think of waterboarding. It works and it should be done to every <snip> terrorist on this earth if they don't agree to tell what they know about the next round of mayhem that is planned to kill innocent men, women and children. You guys should all have to witness the body parts of children in the street or the trees as I saw in Afghanistan. Then maybe just maybe you would start thinking a little different. If waterboarding happend here I say good for Thailand.

a) it is proved that it does not work. The informations under torture are meaningless, as people simply tell anything so it stops.

the problem is that it is also or mainly done to people who aren't terrorists and there is a good percentage that turned into terrorists after.

USA is producing terrorists since the Soviets were in Afghanistan.

c) If you torture random people, you are a terrorist, not fighting it.

d) in Afghanistan the people see the Taliban already as protector against the cruel westerners.

I agree totally with you PIMAY11....... This reply (H90) is so far off-base that it must just come from a mind that embraces the Taliban (as in his d) quote)..... And as far as the c) quote "if you torture RANDOM people....", It wouldn't be 'RANDOM' people, it would be people that they were convinced knew something and people that were planning to do harm.

[kerryk]

Yes but the U.S do not consider this extreem but purely asking the victim a reasonable question. Now if someone was to use the same technique on a U.S citizen just watch the outcry. The U.S are accountatble to no one and they know it. If you speak out against them then you will get your face slapped

Not sure whether naivete or stupidity best describes what you have written. That gritty feeling in your eyes and ears is from the sand where your head is buried. To suggest that the USA is running around torturing people without provocation--and that using the same technique on a U.S. citizen would evoke an outcry--shows a gross ignorance of facts and trivializes the beheadings, the three thousand World Trade Center murders, and a whole list of other jihadist atrocities.

Still, those Americans defend your right to be ignorant and say what you will and they can only laugh at isolated rogue ignorance knowing that it is not a reflection on the countries from which such rogue ignorance has come; and that said countries are barely able to defend themselves in peacetime from immigration and economic aggression, let alone defend themselves against an imminent threat. First sign of trouble and out goes the call, "Uncle Sam, please-please help us, we are so scared."

Sorry my friend this puppy will never drop to his knees and worship the all mighty U.S, he bows to no dictator no matter how powerful he thinks he may be. Americans do not defend the rights of Australia, try to impose on the rights of Australia maybe but not defend our rights.

In 1942 Gen Douglas MacArthur was put in direct command of the Australian military and remained so for the rest of WW II.

ANZUS Treaty was signed by Australia, New Zealand and the United States in 1951.

In 2011 a poll showed 59% of Aussies support the military alliance between the two countries.

[kerryk]

Yes but the U.S do not consider this extreem but purely asking the victim a reasonable question. Now if someone was to use the same technique on a U.S citizen just watch the outcry. The U.S are accountatble to no one and they know it. If you speak out against them then you will get your face slapped

Not sure whether naivete or stupidity best describes what you have written. That gritty feeling in your eyes and ears is from the sand where your head is buried. To suggest that the USA is running around torturing people without provocation--and that using the same technique on a U.S. citizen would evoke an outcry--shows a gross ignorance of facts and trivializes the beheadings, the three thousand World Trade Center murders, and a whole list of other jihadist atrocities.

Still, those Americans defend your right to be ignorant and say what you will and they can only laugh at isolated rogue ignorance knowing that it is not a reflection on the countries from which such rogue ignorance has come; and that said countries are barely able to defend themselves in peacetime from immigration and economic aggression, let alone defend themselves against an imminent threat. First sign of trouble and out goes the call, "Uncle Sam, please-please help us, we are so scared."

You're not getting a whole lot of support for these questionable claims, are you? As for the double standard you deny ("...using the same technique on a U.S. citizen would evoke an outcry...", you deny), I seem to recall that a few months ago that there was outrage in the US about the targeted killing-by-drone of a US citizen who was openly aiding enemies of your nation, Apparently, for many Americans, it's OK to kill foreigners on foreign territory (without trial), but not OK to do the same to Americans doing precisely the same thing. Sounds like hypocrisy to me...

Someone beat me to the WWII bit... that the Americans stayed out for years then took credit for victory. Same could be said for WWI....

Who was in command of the Australian military from 1942 till the end of the war in 1945?

[softgeorge]

Yes but the U.S do not consider this extreem but purely asking the victim a reasonable question. Now if someone was to use the same technique on a U.S citizen just watch the outcry. The U.S are accountatble to no one and they know it. If you speak out against them then you will get your face slapped

Not sure whether naivete or stupidity best describes what you have written. That gritty feeling in your eyes and ears is from the sand where your head is buried. To suggest that the USA is running around torturing people without provocation--and that using the same technique on a U.S. citizen would evoke an outcry--shows a gross ignorance of facts and trivializes the beheadings, the three thousand World Trade Center murders, and a whole list of other jihadist atrocities.

Still, those Americans defend your right to be ignorant and say what you will and they can only laugh at isolated rogue ignorance knowing that it is not a reflection on the countries from which such rogue ignorance has come; and that said countries are barely able to defend themselves in peacetime from immigration and economic aggression, let alone defend themselves against an imminent threat. First sign of trouble and out goes the call, "Uncle Sam, please-please help us, we are so scared."

Sorry my friend this puppy will never drop to his knees and worship the all mighty U.S, he bows to no dictator no matter how powerful he thinks he may be. Americans do not defend the rights of Australia, try to impose on the rights of Australia maybe but not defend our rights.

In 1942 Gen Douglas MacArthur was put in direct command of the Australian military and remained so for the rest of WW II.

ANZUS Treaty was signed by Australia, New Zealand and the United States in 1951.

In 2011 a poll showed 59% of Aussies support the military alliance between the two countries.

and what did macauthur do to the 39th whilst his little darlings were partying in Melbourne?

[surangw]

At that big new building at don muang airport with the white 737 parked by it?

[softgeorge]

Yes but the U.S do not consider this extreem but purely asking the victim a reasonable question. Now if someone was to use the same technique on a U.S citizen just watch the outcry. The U.S are accountatble to no one and they know it. If you speak out against them then you will get your face slapped

Not sure whether naivete or stupidity best describes what you have written. That gritty feeling in your eyes and ears is from the sand where your head is buried. To suggest that the USA is running around torturing people without provocation--and that using the same technique on a U.S. citizen would evoke an outcry--shows a gross ignorance of facts and trivializes the beheadings, the three thousand World Trade Center murders, and a whole list of other jihadist atrocities.

Still, those Americans defend your right to be ignorant and say what you will and they can only laugh at isolated rogue ignorance knowing that it is not a reflection on the countries from which such rogue ignorance has come; and that said countries are barely able to defend themselves in peacetime from immigration and economic aggression, let alone defend themselves against an imminent threat. First sign of trouble and out goes the call, "Uncle Sam, please-please help us, we are so scared."

Sorry my friend this puppy will never drop to his knees and worship the all mighty U.S, he bows to no dictator no matter how powerful he thinks he may be. Americans do not defend the rights of Australia, try to impose on the rights of Australia maybe but not defend our rights.

In 1942 Gen Douglas MacArthur was put in direct command of the Australian military and remained so for the rest of WW II.

ANZUS Treaty was signed by Australia, New Zealand and the United States in 1951.

In 2011 a poll showed 59% of Aussies support the military alliance between the two countries.

He wasn't in command of the Australian Military only a portion served with him. The Australian military were part of the British forces.

[kerryk]

Australia relies on the US for its military muscle and has since 1942. So does Thailand. I am not a big fan of the arrangement either. But that's the way it is. I think everyone should be paying for the protection. Kinda of like the Chicago mob.

[h90]

I personally don't give a rats arse what any of you "oh this is terrible" guys and gals think of waterboarding. It works and it should be done to every <snip> terrorist on this earth if they don't agree to tell what they know about the next round of mayhem that is planned to kill innocent men, women and children. You guys should all have to witness the body parts of children in the street or the trees as I saw in Afghanistan. Then maybe just maybe you would start thinking a little different. If waterboarding happend here I say good for Thailand.

a) it is proved that it does not work. The informations under torture are meaningless, as people simply tell anything so it stops.

the problem is that it is also or mainly done to people who aren't terrorists and there is a good percentage that turned into terrorists after.

USA is producing terrorists since the Soviets were in Afghanistan.

c) If you torture random people, you are a terrorist, not fighting it.

d) in Afghanistan the people see the Taliban already as protector against the cruel westerners.

I agree totally with you PIMAY11....... This reply (H90) is so far off-base that it must just come from a mind that embraces the Taliban (as in his d) quote)..... And as far as the c) quote "if you torture RANDOM people....", It wouldn't be 'RANDOM' people, it would be people that they were convinced knew something and people that were planning to do harm.

d) it comes from an UK General and was up and down in all European media.....

c) in general people are court is deciding if someone is guilty, not the army of a foreign country

f) many of these big Taliban people, were labeled FREEDOM FIGHTERS by the USA and supported with money, knowledge and weapons before when the fighted the Soviets. So when did the USA lie, now or before?

g) and complete off topic is Libya and Irak....There are no Taliban

[h90]

Australia relies on the US for its military muscle and has since 1942. So does Thailand. I am not a big fan of the arrangement either. But that's the way it is. I think everyone should be paying for the protection. Kinda of like the Chicago mob.

When did Thailand need the USA?

In the Vietnam war??? Or when they together supported Pol Pot?

[GentlemanJim]

I personally don't give a rats arse what any of you "oh this is terrible" guys and gals think of waterboarding. It works and it should be done to every <snip> terrorist on this earth if they don't agree to tell what they know about the next round of mayhem that is planned to kill innocent men, women and children. You guys should all have to witness the body parts of children in the street or the trees as I saw in Afghanistan. Then maybe just maybe you would start thinking a little different. If waterboarding happend here I say good for Thailand.

Perhaps you should start thinking a little differently, in that if the US/UK Government had not sent soldiers illegally into Iraq and on a wild goose chase in to Afghanistan for retribution for an event that had NO CONNECTION with either country, then you would not have witnessed any body parts of children in the streets or the trees, as those children would never have been murdered and you would never have been sent there, to now suffer a life time of flashbacks. All done to feed the pockets of a few bad men whilst so many good men and women...and children died, and the more that died the greater the bank balances escalated.

When you water board routinely you as the 'practioner' or 'organization' become desensitized to it. In time when the next alleged terrorist cannot say anything, because he is not in fact a terrorist and knows nothing, then it is a simple step for the 'practioner' to try something more persuasive and before you know it you are connecting an innocent mans gonads to the national grid.

Torture is wrong, and we wage war on those that we believe do wrong to us. We did wrong to the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, now just how do you think they feel? I am genuinely sorry for what you have experienced, but It doesn't change the facts I am afraid, you (we! )were sent to war on a pack of lies and political spin that was designed to satisfy large corporations and ensure a further tenure in office at subsequent elections. Sad really sad.

[hellodolly]

water boarding, done by the phuket jetski maffia ... looooooooooooool

Sorry have to disagree with you it was done by the tuck tuck mafia.

Actually the whole thing is silly and serious.

Stop and think a minute before you react. If A innocent person was tortured by water boarding it would be serious.

But if a known terrorist is water boarded and gives up information that could stop another twin tower event or some of the suicide bombings that terrorists use as a tool it would be silly to say all those people's lives mean less than the person who was water boarded to learn before hand about the planed events,

One other thing to consider is that and I have no proof but I believe that the people who are arrested and water boarded the CIA has a extensive file on. They are not just grabbing people of the street willy nilly.

[hellodolly]

I personally don't give a rats arse what any of you "oh this is terrible" guys and gals think of waterboarding. It works and it should be done to every <snip> terrorist on this earth if they don't agree to tell what they know about the next round of mayhem that is planned to kill innocent men, women and children. You guys should all have to witness the body parts of children in the street or the trees as I saw in Afghanistan. Then maybe just maybe you would start thinking a little different. If waterboarding happend here I say good for Thailand.

a) it is proved that it does not work. The informations under torture are meaningless, as people simply tell anything so it stops.

the problem is that it is also or mainly done to people who aren't terrorists and there is a good percentage that turned into terrorists after.

USA is producing terrorists since the Soviets were in Afghanistan.

c) If you torture random people, you are a terrorist, not fighting it.

d) in Afghanistan the people see the Taliban already as protector against the cruel westerners.

I agree totally with you PIMAY11....... This reply (H90) is so far off-base that it must just come from a mind that embraces the Taliban (as in his d) quote)..... And as far as the c) quote "if you torture RANDOM people....", It wouldn't be 'RANDOM' people, it would be people that they were convinced knew something and people that were planning to do harm.

d) it comes from an UK General and was up and down in all European media.....

c) in general people are court is deciding if someone is guilty, not the army of a foreign country

f) many of these big Taliban people, were labeled FREEDOM FIGHTERS by the USA and supported with money, knowledge and weapons before when the fighted the Soviets. So when did the USA lie, now or before?

g) and complete off topic is Libya and Irak....There are no Taliban

Just because the court says a person is innocent it does not make them innocent. Case in point O J Simpson.

Just because a court says they are guilty it does not make them guilty. In North America their is a lot of people who were convicted served many years in jail only to have DNA or other evidence prove them innocent.

The reality that people from the western cultures are unable to face is that if a person did some thing wrong he is guilty if they did nothing wrong they are innocent, And no matter what a court of law says they can not change that fact.

If the states were to arrest some one like Hitler today and not read him his rights before he confessed they would let him go free,

[GentlemanJim]

water boarding, done by the phuket jetski maffia ... looooooooooooool

Sorry have to disagree with you it was done by the tuck tuck mafia.

Actually the whole thing is silly and serious.

Stop and think a minute before you react. If A innocent person was tortured by water boarding it would be serious.

But if a known terrorist is water boarded and gives up information that could stop another twin tower event or some of the suicide bombings that terrorists use as a tool it would be silly to say all those people's lives mean less than the person who was water boarded to learn before hand about the planed events,

One other thing to consider is that and I have no proof but I believe that the people who are arrested and water boarded the CIA has a extensive file on. They are not just grabbing people of the street willy nilly.

You are 100% wrong on both counts.

[h90]

I personally don't give a rats arse what any of you "oh this is terrible" guys and gals think of waterboarding. It works and it should be done to every <snip> terrorist on this earth if they don't agree to tell what they know about the next round of mayhem that is planned to kill innocent men, women and children. You guys should all have to witness the body parts of children in the street or the trees as I saw in Afghanistan. Then maybe just maybe you would start thinking a little different. If waterboarding happend here I say good for Thailand.

Perhaps you should start thinking a little differently, in that if the US/UK Government had not sent soldiers illegally into Iraq and on a wild goose chase in to Afghanistan for retribution for an event that had NO CONNECTION with either country, then you would not have witnessed any body parts of children in the streets or the trees, as those children would never have been murdered and you would never have been sent there, to now suffer a life time of flashbacks. All done to feed the pockets of a few bad men whilst so many good men and women...and children died, and the more that died the greater the bank balances escalated.

When you water board routinely you as the 'practioner' or 'organization' become desensitized to it. In time when the next alleged terrorist cannot say anything, because he is not in fact a terrorist and knows nothing, then it is a simple step for the 'practioner' to try something more persuasive and before you know it you are connecting an innocent mans gonads to the national grid.

Torture is wrong, and we wage war on those that we believe do wrong to us. We did wrong to the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, now just how do you think they feel? I am genuinely sorry for what you have experienced, but It doesn't change the facts I am afraid, you (we! )were sent to war on a pack of lies and political spin that was designed to satisfy large corporations and ensure a further tenure in office at subsequent elections. Sad really sad.

Specially Iraq had nothing to do with it, even less Libya and now Iran who is the next....

[h90]

Just because the court says a person is innocent it does not make them innocent. Case in point O J Simpson.

Just because a court says they are guilty it does not make them guilty. In North America their is a lot of people who were convicted served many years in jail only to have DNA or other evidence prove them innocent.

The reality that people from the western cultures are unable to face is that if a person did some thing wrong he is guilty if they did nothing wrong they are innocent, And no matter what a court of law says they can not change that fact.

If the states were to arrest some one like Hitler today and not read him his rights before he confessed they would let him go free,

I understand your point!

So I would say lets torture you! Because I say you are a terrorist.

Don't tell me, you aren't. You just told that that we can't believe the courts, so someone must have a say.

Me, or someone else who can freely decide without anyone knows???

And not even thinking about pressure: Bring me 5 Terrorists NOW.....just taking the next 5 men.

There are already so many well known, well documented cases where the killed the wrong person. And why messing around in countries like Iraq?? There were no Taliban, just oil.

[farang000999]

I support the use of torture on terrorists.