Is Violence/vandalism On The Rise?

[plachon]

I'm going to place this in here, even though it should probably be put in the General section, it does have the potential to get political...........

Has anyone noticed an upsurge in random violence and/ or vandalism in their areas over the last two years? In particular, I'm thinking about the news about motorbike gangs roaming Chiang Mai hacking at strangers with samurai swords and reports of similar random acts late at night by gangs here in Isaan. Has anyone witnessed these "Ninja" gangs first hand?

However, just recently I've noticed regular attacks on phone boxes where all the glass panels are left smashed. Whether this is due to frustration with it not working (seemingly about 75 % of phone boxes these days) or eating the punter's money OR a more visceral desire to just destroy some public property, I don't know. I suspect the latter, as it can't have escaped long term resident's notice that bored youth, graffiti and delinquancy are all on the up, where previously they were absent or insignificant to the casual observer. These syptoms of social malaise are hardly surprising in a rapidly industrialising/urbanising society, but on the other hand, do not bode well for the outcome of the PM's "Social Order Campaign", as they have all noticeably increased in the time he's been in office.

Anybody else got any thoughts / observations on this phenomenon?

[plachon]

As nobody seems to want to touch this subject, I'm left with the unmistakeable conclusion that the only subjects worth discussing in the Bear Pit revolve round the US foreign policies, Bush and neo-imperialism (admirably covered on BBC World Service last night). Guess subjects revolving round Thailand will have to wait til the American public have kicked Bush Jr out of office. Tant pis.

[SoCal]

Plachon,

I guess no one is interested in what you have to say. Just joking, so relax.

Fact is that the (all) government (s) is very poor at instilling morals, and equality. The interesting fact is that the left tries to inforce morals more than the right, which makes your point puzzling, as we all know you for a leftist.

The other basic fact is that I highly doubt that crime is on the rise per capita, unless the demographic for young adult males is on the rise. So either, it is as simple as a ship in demographics, or you are more sensitive than you were before.

There was never such a thing as the good old days, you just think so.

Tant Mieux,

SoCal

[plachon]

I never said there was such a thing as "the good old days", so that interpretation is a figment of your fevered imagination SoCal. Neither was I trying to score a left/right/central fence sitter point. All I'm interested in is whether other long term residents of Thailand have noticed an increase in the phenomena I describe in their area and if so, what do they ascribe it to? I thought it would make a refreshing difference from the interminable US-related postings we all love to hate so much, eh?

[SoCal]

Plachon, don't come to a place like the bear pit, and go sensitive on me.

As I said in my previous post, increase in crime is more often than not a result of a shift in the demographics. Not sure what more I can say.

Take care.

[plachon]

Don't worry SoCal, i'll still fight my corner when the chips/freedom fries are down in the pit. Guess the subject raised here is just too uncontroversial for the bears to touch (notice the low hit rate) or just a figment of my imagination. But before I drop it into touch, I would dispute your assertion that my perception is just a simple matter of demographics. Economics and sociography, yes, but not a swing towards a young, male dominated society. Sure, there are loads of bored teenagers hanging around in games rooms and snooker halls or in front of the telly, but there were ten years ago too. A break down of the village community institution with urbanisation and failure of parents, schools and colleges to instill social responsibility in their charges would be a more rational explanation. Anyway, with the low birth rate of the last 20 years (post Meechai), and longevity of life these days (if you survive AIDS and roadkill) Thailand is a rapidly aging society with more and more people in the upper cohorts.

OK, back to the real bear pit now of your bete noir subjects. Sorry SoCal, but i tried to abstain and even take the heat off you, but as you can see, it failed to incite or excite..............

[SoCal]

Hi Plachon,

Nice to have some time with you, that is not so contentious.

I know there are multiple factors, but demographics is certainly a leading indicator.

FYI, my degree is actually in sociology. At one time wanted to save the world, but then got hungry.

Went back to school for the MBA, and sold my soul, but the food is better.

Take care,

SoCal

[plachon]

Yep, i agree (wow!), nice to know we can find a civil area to just bounce a few ideas around SoCal. How come you sold out on trying to save the world? Are doing a little bit of good on this planet and eating mutually exclusive? Never noticed that MLK Jr, Nelson Mandela or Mother Teresa were starving, although Gandhi could probably have done with a few more square meals. Those MBAs have a lot to answer for IMHO. Never known anyone with one, who's not sadly lacking in the humanities and environmental sciences departments, although I wouldn't dispute your prowess in putting a business plan together. Probably not the best qualified people to be doing any saving in any case, unless it's their own backsides.

Have a fine one, mate.

[SoCal]

How come you sold out on trying to save the world?

Jaded I guess. Seems like such a daunting task. I've been to places that make Thailand look like a first world country.

34 now, and VP of an international company. Want to retire in 8 years. Retirement doesn't mean not working to me, but freedom to do the things you want. Maybe then I'll put my cape back on, and try to save the world.

Nice talking to you as well Plachon.

Take care.

[marquess]

Could it possibly be that, that in the raising of the drinking age from 16 to 20, and the general exclusion of this age group from various entertainment spots; is a factor?

[SoCal]

So you would assert that drinking lowers criminal activity?

I doubt it, but will raise my glass to it any way.

[Guest IT Manager]

Interesting thought. I drive daily through the area where the Samurai gang hang out at night. There are usually a few still about in the mornings.

I must admit to not having seen anything of the vandalism in there (Phadap), however one of the results may be staying with us for a couple of weeks by the look of it. (Friend of my sons).

The chopping of strangers appears to be random, but I wonder how random it is. It doesn't go on every day or even every week, but the bomb at the concert a few weeks ago was certainly put down to the.

Psycho-Social management by government usually ends up back-firing IMHO because the first step is knee-jerk and has no plan at its' instigation, has no community support (though that will likely come later), and generally looks in the wrong direction in seeking cause after viewing effect.

Be interested in a little touch-base on this because my oldest son could well have ended up in a gang though my youngest would never have.

[plachon]

How come you sold out on trying to save the world?

Jaded I guess. Seems like such a daunting task. I've been to places that make Thailand look like a first world country.

34 now, and VP of an international company. Want to retire in 8 years. Retirement doesn't mean not working to me, but freedom to do the things you want. Maybe then I'll put my cape back on, and try to save the world.

Nice talking to you as well Plachon.

Take care.

Depends on how big a chunk of the world you want to take on. Don't get too ambitious. Not so difficult if you remember one of the favourite old adages of the Greenies - "Think globally and act locally". It's timeless, simple and true. Work on the things you can influence, whether it's your own consumption habits or making a positive contribution to those directly around you. Get to know your neighbours, renew contact with someone in your family or an old friend you haven't spoken to in years, start thinking about the term "community", think about joining a meditation course, eat a little less meat or junk food or whatever. These small things make a difference. You only get jaded when you get swamped by the feeling "What difference can one person make to the world?" and end up with the conclusion: "Aw, <deleted> it, it's only me that counts and I'm gonna make as much money as I can in as short a time as possible and retire happy". It's an illusion, mate. The world's still out there, so engage with it, warts n'all, and change those small things that are within your power to change.

I'm aware that this is dangerously close to preaching. Not intended. Ignore if you want. Just wanted to put across a hint of an alternative worldview to the MBA one. Yes, it's good "chatting" with you without ripping each other's throats out.

[plachon]

Could it possibly be that, that in the raising of the drinking age from 16 to 20, and the general exclusion of this age group from various entertainment spots; is a factor?

My observations are, that despite any official attempts to control under-age drinking, Thai teenagers are starting drinking younger and younger in any case. Less parental control, more peer pressure, more pocket money or cash hanging around the house, more seductive advertising, easier purchase thru' all-nite shops, etc.? Whatever the reasons, the kids are getting pissed more often than 10, 15 years ago and IMHO, there is nothing more pitiful than a Thai wai-roon out of his (or occasionally her) skull on lao kao - Spy mixers! (with the possible exception of a Reading fan after a 5-0 thrashing by Brighton) Whether this leads to a rise in violence/vandalism, I can but guess.

[thailien8]

Sorry to interrupt the dialog between plachon and socal. I agree that there is more violence in Thai society, random and purposeful, since the advent of Social Order. This gov't. policy seems mostly concerned with sex, drugs and rock n roll, rather than making any real effort to help people live together peacefully. The war on drugs set such a glaring example of solving perceived problems with a maximum of violence, making blacklists of one's enemies who could then be safely eliminated. Following that, those people (the ones still alive anyway) who used to spend their time getting high, and making their money by dealing drugs, suddenly had to look for new pastimes. Now we see more muggings on pedestrian overpasses in Bkk., the inter-school brawls that result in innocent bystanders getting shot or pushed out of bus doors, and of course the Muslim violence in the South. Personally, I've had a few close encounters with the ranks of katoey hugger-muggers on Sukhumvit and Nana at night.

I wish the social order campaign had something to do with actually improving the quality of life for most people, but it seems much more about reducing the amount of "sanuk" available. Standard moral majority, Republican right-wing stuff.

[Georgie-Porgie]

I wish the social order campaign had something to do with actually improving the quality of life for most people, but it seems much more about reducing the amount of "sanuk" available.  Standard moral majority, Republican right-wing stuff.

Some people have accused me of being right-wing, a racist, etc. Actually, nothing could be further from the truth, but anyway, please don't mix me up with anyone who wants less "sanuk" in Thailand. I am very pro-sanuk!

[Boon Mee]

A little note from Down Under:

More crushing of dissent in Australia.

TWO peace activists who painted No War on the Sydney Opera House were today sentenced to nine months periodic detention.

David Burgess, 33, and Will Saunders, 42, were convicted late last year of malicious damage after painting No War on the tallest sail of the Opera House on March 18, 2003.

NSW District Court Judge Anthony Blackmore today sentenced the pair to nine months weekend jail and ordered they jointly pay $111,000 compensation to the Sydney Opera House Trust.

Earlier in today's proceedings the pair handed over a cheque for $40,000 to the trust.

The pair painted the slogan on the Sydney landmark in a protest against Australia's involvement in the war in Iraq. Judge Blackmore said it did not matter whether the graffiti was done to make a political statement, it was still malicious damage.

What? You mean that having leftist political beliefs does not give you carte blanche to vandalize property and defy the law? Horrifying! Only in fascist Australia would this take place! How can this happen? Is John Ashcroft also the AG of Australia? FASCISM! FASCISM!

It's all Bush's fault - Right???

Boon Mee

[SoCal]

Hi Plachon,

See, you got some bites, we just had to keep it at the top of the board for a while.

I know what your saying. You actually made me laugh, but a happy laugh.

Last two years I averaged 70 hrs/wk (lazy american.)

Bought a boat this week 30', and will be living on it in two weeks. Sounds like a selfish thing, but trying to clear the head, back to nature, etc.

Still hope for me yet.

Well, looks like this is no longer our private message board, so

Peace Out,

SoCal

[plachon]

Yeah, finally got some rises from some small fry, but the big fish remain elusive quarry.

<deleted>, you mean we gotta share this thread with some other scruffy louts with nothing better to do than post meaningless diatribes on the state of the world and complain how things ain't quite as "sanuk" as they used to be? Aw, too bad, but it's a phenomenon in itself that I could draw out both Boonmee and old G-P into this thread without getting flamed for being too leftist, P.C. anti-american, etc., even if an Aussie might feel he was having his knackers twisted ever-so-slightly by Boonmee's thread (I'm British mate, through and thru' ) Actually, the newspiece you posted made me laugh for the concept of "periodic detention", just at w/ends, which is a new one on me, but could be a great idea for some Bruces who want to get away from their nagging Shiela's for a couple of days peace and quiet, and still be back at work at work on Monday morning. Judge Blackmore could be doing 'em a favour!

Jeez, you work 70 hrs/week and still find time to post on Thaivisa? Or does this count as "work"? Me, I overload on 20 hours! Sabai, sabai man.

SoCal, enjoy your sailing week after next, get loads of beers and some good food on board, leave the office far behind and hope the winds are fair. Yeah, you're not a total lost cause just yet, dude. Where's the boat based?

Chill out,

Plachon

[SoCal]

Hey Plachon,

Key word- last 2 years. Now down to 60hrs. Some people like TV, I like the internet.

Boat will be moored at San Pedro. This is about 20 miles NW of Long Beach.

SoCal

[the cynic]

Yes violence and vandalism are on the rise. If you don't believe me, take a look at your posts.

[plachon]

Yes violence and vandalism are on the rise. If you don't believe me, take a look at your posts.

The Cynic,

Are you referring specifically to the ones inside or outside this thread? And are you talking just about Thailand, which was my intention when starting this thread? (please don't draw this thread ex-LOS).

(Good sailing/fishing/diving locations in the world exempted from this clause!)

Would agree that violence against poultry and other feathered friends has soared of late (bagged up and buried alive), but the jury is still out on the human dimension of my question as far as I'm concerned. Still needs more feedback from others' observations of their local situations.............................................

[the cynic]

I was referring mainly to Georgie-Porgie and Membrane. Both are unable to reply without abusing people.

[Georgie-Porgie]

I don't suffer fools gladly and am often too lazy to look for and post documentation to refute what I feel are obvious lies. Membrane is usually polite and has the facts to back up what he is saying. He and SoCal are about the only players who make any attempt to properly debate on this forum, as well as listen and understand the other side.

Falsely comparing us just shows how desperate the lefties are to do anything to stop getting so severely trounced on a daily basis.

[the gentleman]

A little note from Down Under:

More crushing of dissent in Australia.

TWO peace activists who painted No War on the Sydney Opera House were today sentenced to nine months periodic detention.

David Burgess, 33, and Will Saunders, 42, were convicted late last year of malicious damage after painting No War on the tallest sail of the Opera House on March 18, 2003.

NSW District Court Judge Anthony Blackmore today sentenced the pair to nine months weekend jail and ordered they jointly pay $111,000 compensation to the Sydney Opera House Trust.

Earlier in today's proceedings the pair handed over a cheque for $40,000 to the trust.

The pair painted the slogan on the Sydney landmark in a protest against Australia's involvement in the war in Iraq. Judge Blackmore said it did not matter whether the graffiti was done to make a political statement, it was still malicious damage.

What? You mean that having leftist political beliefs does not give you carte blanche to vandalize property and defy the law? Horrifying! Only in fascist Australia would this take place! How can this happen? Is John Ashcroft also the AG of Australia? FASCISM! FASCISM!

It's all Bush's fault - Right???

Boon Mee

you really are a weird bloke Boon Mee, two greenys paint a slogan, good on them, they have all of our support, they made a stand. Not the way I would of done it as I dont have the time or the balls to defame the opera house.

"Only in fascist Australia would this take place! How can this happen? Is John Ashcroft also the AG of Australia? FASCISM! FASCISM! "

you are raving mate!

[Guest IT Manager]

<deleted> is John Ashcroft?

[Boon Mee]

A little note from Down Under:

More crushing of dissent in Australia.

TWO peace activists who painted No War on the Sydney Opera House were today sentenced to nine months periodic detention.

David Burgess, 33, and Will Saunders, 42, were convicted late last year of malicious damage after painting No War on the tallest sail of the Opera House on March 18, 2003.

NSW District Court Judge Anthony Blackmore today sentenced the pair to nine months weekend jail and ordered they jointly pay $111,000 compensation to the Sydney Opera House Trust.

Earlier in today's proceedings the pair handed over a cheque for $40,000 to the trust.

The pair painted the slogan on the Sydney landmark in a protest against Australia's involvement in the war in Iraq. Judge Blackmore said it did not matter whether the graffiti was done to make a political statement, it was still malicious damage.

What? You mean that having leftist political beliefs does not give you carte blanche to vandalize property and defy the law? Horrifying! Only in fascist Australia would this take place! How can this happen? Is John Ashcroft also the AG of Australia? FASCISM! FASCISM!

It's all Bush's fault - Right???

Boon Mee

you really are a weird bloke Boon Mee, two greenys paint a slogan, good on them, they have all of our support, they made a stand. Not the way I would of done it as I dont have the time or the balls to defame the opera house.

"Only in fascist Australia would this take place! How can this happen? Is John Ashcroft also the AG of Australia? FASCISM! FASCISM! "

you are raving mate!

Don't know if any y'all remember a few years back in Singapore there was this American lad who was going around spray-painting cars (probably all Mercedes).

Anyhow, he was cought and thrown in Changi Prison and canned! There was a big deal made out of it in the US because the punishment was considered too draconian. B.S. said the Singapore Government and canned the foker.

Fast-forward to present times and a couple of "Greens" (whatever the heck they are) vandalize, deface and create a public nuisance - whada we get? Those poor lads just exercising their constitutional rights?

Boon Mee

[Axel]

Sure do remember Boon Me and had a good friend living there with two boys in international school in SIN. They were shocked.

He said, education for the next two months was so easy...

Btw, both 'lads' are now a bit older. Became nice guys and no damage done.

Although, they might be a bit upset, if anything happens to their cars, they bought from their own money earned.

[the gentleman]

<deleted> is John Ashcroft?

I think he was a governor of Missouri and then a senator.

http://www.impeach-bush-now.org/Articles/Ashcroft/

Have a look at this site Boon Mee, its great reading

[Boon Mee]

<deleted> is John Ashcroft?

I think he was a governor of Missouri and then a senator.

http://www.impeach-bush-now.org/Articles/Ashcroft/

Have a look at this site Boon Mee, its great reading

Thanks for the tip Mr. Gentleman but I'll pass 'cause it's looks like another one of those left-wing, commie-pinko hate Bush/America sites.

I would be remiss if I didn't return the favor. Read some honest reporting from the site listed here: http://frontpagemag.com/