Constructive Dismissal

[GubXram]

Having traveled to L.O.S. previously I was delighted when I got a job offer to come and work here.

Months down the line and I have come to the conclusion that my time to part ways with my employer is immanent. The reason for this is simple, I have an opinion, will call a spade a spade. This how ever is not appreciated by the Director, a foreign national, who believes that he knows everything about everything, even when he has no prior experience pertaining to issues at hand.

Since I voiced my opinion hes attitude towards me has become unbearable. I am excluded from all work related activities, my insets ignored etc. There are periods of days when he will not speak a single word to me and instigating negative sentiments towards me from other member of staff. This is making my job unbearable and I'm already halfway out the door. I my view these are grounds for a constructive dismissal.

Questions:

Am I wrong?

Does Thai labor law have a constructive dismissal clause (contract signed under governing thai law)?

What do I do?

[CharlieH]

Seems to me you made the classic error of not understanding the culture in which you are living and working. In Thai culture you cannot infer in anyway that the boss doesnt know what he is doing. Its all about saving face in this country and sadly you went about it in a western way and that wont work and will end in what you are experiencing. As far as constructive dismissal, doubtful if it would fly, again you are approaching it with a western attitude, my suggestion would be to learn from it and move on.

Alternative, apologise to him and explain your ignorance and that no offence was intended as you are from a different culture and act differently to situations and eat some apple pie for awhile and it will probably work out.

Its good to talk, try and sit down with him very calmly and ask for his guidance, might stick in your throat to do it, put him back at the top and don't challenge him, think it if you like, but don't ever voice it.

Edited May 2, 2012 by CharlieH

[theblether]

Learn to shut your mouth.

Don't take pride in calling a spade a spade, learn how to manipulate. Calling a spade a spade has two downfalls.......one is you better be right, and the other is you better be happy at making enemies.

I remember 20 years ago ripping into a senior manager of a company I worked for, I let the guy have both barrels as to why I knew I was right and how he was letting the company down. I really gave it to him.

The guy listened to me intently and let me finish. He then asked me to summarise my points, which I did. Then he asked me to summarise them again. Which I did again.

Then he said to me........" Based upon the information you have at hand you are totally correct, I would be of the same opinion as you. However I am in management, you are not, I am privy to information that is above your grade. In future before you launch into an attack consider the fact that contrary to your opinion you don't know everything. Close the door behind you."

Out the door I went with my tail between my legs and the next day the management announced they were chopping 25% of the workforce, and I got promoted.

I felt like a right prick, so I did.

Just saying.

[Soutpeel]

To answer the OP question. No constructive dismissal under Thai labour law

you only have 2 options

You resign and walk away

You get fired and you may have grounds for a serverance claim, obviously depends on the manner in which you get fired

Yes really that simple

The game which is being played is one to make you resign and you have absolutely no claim against the company in the eyes of the DOL.

I dont know your T&C's or the sort on money involved, but it may be cheaper to keep you one for a while and forece you to resign than to pay out serverance

Edited May 2, 2012 by Soutpeel

[Soutpeel]

Seems to me you made the classic error of not understanding the culture in which you are living and working. In Thai culture you cannot infer in anyway that the boss doesnt know what he is doing. Its all about saving face in this country and sadly you went about it in a western way and that wont work and will end in what you are experiencing. As far as constructive dismissal, doubtful if it would fly, again you are approaching it with a western attitude, my suggestion would be to learn from it and move on.

Alternative, apologise to him and explain your ignorance and that no offence was intended as you are from a different culture and act differently to situations and eat some apple pie for awhile and it will probably work out.

Its good to talk, try and sit down with him very calmly and ask for his guidance, might stick in your throat to do it, put him back at the top and don't challenge him, think it if you like, but don't ever voice it.

What are you talking about.....the boss is a foreigner not Thai, therefore a western approach would be in order, would be nothing more pathetic than foreigner employee kowtowing down and wai'ing a western boss...

[edwardandtubs]

There is such a thing as constructive dismissal but only a Thai lawyer could give you any definite advice about your likelihood of success. Of course your boss isn't going to put his hands up and say, "It's a fair cop guv, you've got me, I treated this guy like shit." He'll probably counter-claim and then you're in for a long legal battle.

[FritsSikkink]

Seems to me you made the classic error of not understanding the culture in which you are living and working. In Thai culture you cannot infer in anyway that the boss doesnt know what he is doing. Its all about saving face in this country and sadly you went about it in a western way and that wont work and will end in what you are experiencing. As far as constructive dismissal, doubtful if it would fly, again you are approaching it with a western attitude, my suggestion would be to learn from it and move on.

Alternative, apologise to him and explain your ignorance and that no offence was intended as you are from a different culture and act differently to situations and eat some apple pie for awhile and it will probably work out.

Its good to talk, try and sit down with him very calmly and ask for his guidance, might stick in your throat to do it, put him back at the top and don't challenge him, think it if you like, but don't ever voice it.

What are you talking about.....the boss is a foreigner not Thai, therefore a western approach would be in order, would be nothing more pathetic than foreigner employee kowtowing down and wai'ing a western boss...

He could be Chinese.

[FritsSikkink]

There is such a thing as constructive dismissal

Don't think so could you show me the article:

http://www.mol.go.th/sites/default/files/images/jpg/01.pdf

[Khutan]

To answer the OP question. No constructive dismissal under Thai labour law.....

As I was an employer in Thailand before, its much easier to move people to an "Inactive Position" and ignore them. Normally after a week or two we would also disable internet and email and get the company laptop and phone returned.

People got the hint after that.

Its not me, rather what the law allows employers to do

[Soutpeel]

There is such a thing as constructive dismissal but only a Thai lawyer could give you any definite advice about your likelihood of success. Of course your boss isn't going to put his hands up and say, "It's a fair cop guv, you've got me, I treated this guy like shit." He'll probably counter-claim and then you're in for a long legal battle.

In terms of the labour law there is no provision for contructive dismissal, which is the question the OP asked, therefore DOL will not be interested, the OP is welcome to try something through a normal court via a lawyer, but hope he has plenty of money and time

[Soutpeel]

Seems to me you made the classic error of not understanding the culture in which you are living and working. In Thai culture you cannot infer in anyway that the boss doesnt know what he is doing. Its all about saving face in this country and sadly you went about it in a western way and that wont work and will end in what you are experiencing. As far as constructive dismissal, doubtful if it would fly, again you are approaching it with a western attitude, my suggestion would be to learn from it and move on.

Alternative, apologise to him and explain your ignorance and that no offence was intended as you are from a different culture and act differently to situations and eat some apple pie for awhile and it will probably work out.

Its good to talk, try and sit down with him very calmly and ask for his guidance, might stick in your throat to do it, put him back at the top and don't challenge him, think it if you like, but don't ever voice it.

What are you talking about.....the boss is a foreigner not Thai, therefore a western approach would be in order, would be nothing more pathetic than foreigner employee kowtowing down and wai'ing a western boss...

He could be Chinese.

This is true..but even then "CharlieH" is still rabbiting on about the OP not understanding Thai culture, so in some repects my comment still stands..

[GubXram]

Thanks for all the replies, they all were constructive and allowed me to look at the situation at hand from an alternative perspective. Theblether, man I wish i read your post earlier.

The irony, I've just walked out a meeting where I have been told to 1. Conform 2. Adjust my attitude 3. Make a decision whether I still want to be in the companies employ by the end of the week. Here's the clincher, they still want me to work for them because they could fire me any time they want. When asked on what grounds, the manager smiled at me said ' Oh I have my ways, it might not be right but I can. So you need to realize how lucky you are to still have a job'

I know that the differences between myself and my boss will never be resolved and that I will dread going to work everyday. So now I have 2 options. Hightail it back home (where I will walk straight into a cushy job) or find a new job asap (something I've been trying to bring to fruition in the last month or so) I love Thailand, I love everything about it warts and all and I so don't want to leave yet I simply cant picture me saying goodbye to LOS

[GubXram]

BTW Soutpeel. Nice potjie and suppose you could call me rockspider? lol

[Soutpeel]

BTW Soutpeel. Nice potjie and suppose you could call me rockspider? lol

Lekker dag, geluk and yes Soutpeel spelt wrong I know....not my strongest subject at school LOL

[Khutan]

.....they still want me to work for them because they could fire me any time they want. When asked on what grounds, the manager smiled at me said ' Oh I have my ways, it might not be right but I can. So you need to realize how lucky you are to still have a job'....

You do have to be paid severance pay under Thai Law. There are also some provisions for unfair dismissal, so you probably should keep working and document whats going on, even if you make a diary, to take to your legal people.

[bendix]

You do have to be paid severance pay under Thai Law. There are also some provisions for unfair dismissal, so you probably should keep working and document whats going on, even if you make a diary, to take to your legal people.

It depends on how long he was worked there. In the OP, he refers to 'months'.

If he has been there under 120 days, he gets no severance pay. If he's been there 120 days to a year, it's 30 days severance pay.

[Khutan]

You do have to be paid severance pay under Thai Law. There are also some provisions for unfair dismissal, so you probably should keep working and document whats going on, even if you make a diary, to take to your legal people.

It depends on how long he was worked there. In the OP, he refers to 'months'.

If he has been there under 120 days, he gets no severance pay. If he's been there 120 days to a year, it's 30 days severance pay.

Very true, as I was trying to suggest to the OP to keep his head down and document as much as possible.