Temples In Chiangmai

[camerata]

I'm going up to Chiangmai tomorrow for a few days with some friends from the US. I haven't been there for 18 years and the only place I remember is Doi Suthep. Are there any other temples or Buddhist landmarks worth seeing? Are there any relics of the Buddha there?

[sabaijai]

I'm going up to Chiangmai tomorrow for a few days with some friends from the US. I haven't been there for 18 years and the only place I remember is Doi Suthep. Are there any other temples or Buddhist landmarks worth seeing? Are there any relics of the Buddha there?

Short list:

Wat Chiang Man - classic Lanna temple, couple of highly venerated Buddha images, possibly the city's oldest temple

Wat Phra Sing - also classic Lanna, another highly venerated Buddha, wonderful northern Thai temple murals; also see the lesser known Wat Prasat nearby for murals.

Wat Suan Dok - location of a large Buddhist university, lots of monks and novices studying here. The wat hosts an overnight meditation retreat every Sun-Mon, looks interesting. Large white stupas contains ashes of Lanna royalty.

Wat Phra That Doi Suthep - Worth a revisit for you I think, but be sure to go after 5.30pm when most of the crowds have gone, and stay through sunset when the monks are chanting. There's now an international meditation centre here. Talk to Phra Noah, a Canadian monk here. They have meditation classes, Pali classes, etc oriented towards foreigners. Supposed to be a Buddha relic in the main stupa.

Wat Umong - The most 'serious' forest temple in town in terms of the attitudes of the monks, discipline and the leadership of the current abbot. Dhamma talks in English every Wed and Sun afternoon. Good atmosphere in the bricklined meditation tunnels, and the old stupa on top of the hill. Ven Buddhadasa had a lot to do with the restoration of this monastery in the 60s and 70s. There are a few western monks around.

Wat Ram Poeng - Nice atmosphere, meditation wat, best Tipitaka library in Chiang Mai.

Wat Chedi Luang - Biggest stupa in Chiang Mai, illuminated at night, atmospheric. Buddha relic in the stupa, they say. The vihara in the adjacent Wat Phan Tao was assembled from teak wood that used to be a palace, donated.

Have fun. It's a little chilly up here at night right now, bring a jumper/sweater and socks.

[Abandon]

I'll be up there from 5th-14th of Jan

Isn't there an insect zoo/museum in Chaing Mai

[camerata]

I'll be up there from 5th-14th of Jan

Isn't there an insect zoo/museum in Chaing Mai

Apparently. From the Chiangmai forum:

Not well known, but worth a trip on a rainy day is the bizarre-yet-fascinating "Chiangmai Insect Museum" near the Amari Rincome hotel (or is it near Wat Suan Dok? It's been a long time ...)

Run by the founder's widow (a very sweet woman) you will see amazing butterflies, cockroaches, 4000 species of mosquitos, daa d'daa d'daa ....

(They all dtaai-laeow, if ya know what I mean)

They sell tee-shirts, one with a large mosquito and the caption "Get to know them and you will understand"  I bought three.

Bring the kids!

[camerata]

Wat Phra That Doi Suthep - Worth a revisit for you I think, but be sure to go after 5.30pm when most of the crowds have gone, and stay through sunset when the monks are chanting. There's now an international meditation centre here. Talk to Phra Noah, a Canadian monk here.

Is he a meditation master, by any chance? I have a problem I'd like to discuss and I don't get out of Bangkok much.

Thanks for the list. Unfortunately, my friends from the US aren't Buddhists so I guess this will be a tourist-type visit to the temples.

I have memories of whizzing around dark streets in an open song-theow on my last visit and it was d@mn cold, so I'll be taking a sweater and jacket this time, just in case.

[Suthep_Steve]

Lot of us in and around CM at the moment. Anyone interested in a cup of tea and a chat?

[sabaijai]

Wat Phra That Doi Suthep - Worth a revisit for you I think, but be sure to go after 5.30pm when most of the crowds have gone, and stay through sunset when the monks are chanting. There's now an international meditation centre here. Talk to Phra Noah, a Canadian monk here.

Is he a meditation master, by any chance? I have a problem I'd like to discuss and I don't get out of Bangkok much.

Thanks for the list. Unfortunately, my friends from the US aren't Buddhists so I guess this will be a tourist-type visit to the temples.

I have memories of whizzing around dark streets in an open song-theow on my last visit and it was d@mn cold, so I'll be taking a sweater and jacket this time, just in case.

Phra Noah (aka Bhikkhu Yuttadhammo) is a fairly young man, actually. I don't know whether he teaches meditation there or not, but he's pleasant and very knowledgable about Buddhism in general. I'll PM you with his email address.

[Abandon]

could u pm it to me too sabaijai - I only have his hotmail one and it does not seem to work.

Phra Noah is the amin teacher at the international centre on doi suthep - a big undertaking as there are only 3 of them teaching there.

Steve - will let you know about the cup of tea once I am up there.

[camerata]

Lot of us in and around CM at the moment. Anyone interested in a cup of tea and a chat?

I wish I could, but this will be a flying visit with a group and I won't be setting the schedule. I probably won't have Internet access either. Looks like I'll be spending the countdown with a bunch of hedonists.

Thanks for the email contact, Sabaijai.

[Abandon]

Thanks for the email contact, Sabaijai.

I didn't get it yet

[sabaijai]

Thanks for the email contact, Sabaijai.

I didn't get it yet

I just now read your post, Abandon, will PM immediately!

[sabaijai]

Lot of us in and around CM at the moment. Anyone interested in a cup of tea and a chat?

This is a bad week for me, Steve, I'm swamped with work and travelling in and out of CM frequently. Maybe later on?

[sabaijai]

I'll be up there from 5th-14th of Jan

Isn't there an insect zoo/museum in Chaing Mai

The insect museum is on the W side of Sirimangkhalajan Rd, not far from Kad Suan Kaew shopping centre. Very interesting, worth a visit, esp if the entomologist owner is there.

[Suthep_Steve]

Lot of us in and around CM at the moment. Anyone interested in a cup of tea and a chat?

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This is a bad week for me, Steve, I'm swamped with work and travelling in and out of CM frequently. Maybe later on?

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That would be nice

[camerata]

Wat Phra Sing - also classic Lanna, another highly venerated Buddha, wonderful northern Thai temple murals; also see the lesser known Wat Prasat nearby for murals.

I didn't realise (or had forgotten) how beautiful Lanna architecture is. There are a lot of Buddha images at this temple and I couldn't figure out which was the highly venerated one - presumably the small one in the centre of the main hall.

Wat Phra That Doi Suthep - Worth a revisit for you I think, but be sure to go after 5.30pm when most of the crowds have gone, and stay through sunset when the monks are chanting.

Even with the crowds it was worth visiting!

Wat Umong - The most 'serious' forest temple in town in terms of the attitudes of the monks, discipline and the leadership of the current abbot. Dhamma talks in English every Wed and Sun afternoon. Good atmosphere in the bricklined meditation tunnels, and the old stupa on top of the hill.

There was no one around at all when I was there. Very tranquil and an impressive Ashoka Pillar.

Wat Chedi Luang - Biggest stupa in Chiang Mai, illuminated at night, atmospheric. Buddha relic in the stupa, they say.

Yes, it's impressive late afternoon when the sunlight hits the red brickwork.

Also, a beautiful little chapel/shrine dedicated to a forest monk.

Anyone come across any glossy books on Lanna/Northern temples? I couldn't find anything on Amazon. I might have to go back and take another look without the New Year crowds.

[camerata]

At Wat Phra That Doi Suthep there were two tua mom guarding the meditation centre. My Thai friends hadn't heard of this creature ("mom" just means dirty). Anyone know what part this creature plays in Buddhism or Thai folklore?

I noticed the one on the left had its mouth closed...

while the one on the right had its mouth open...

This is the same as the nio which guard Japanese temples and the shishi lion-dogs that guard shrines. The left one with mouth closed is always uttering "Un" (the last letter of the Sanskrit alphabet) and the right one is uttering "Ah" (the first letter), but explanations vary as to what they symbolise. I wonder if this applies to Theravada as well as Mahayana Buddhism?

[camerata]

There was a nice end to the New Year for me. We were out in the sticks, on the road to Mae Rim, sending up those floating lamps at the rate of one per minute after 11pm. They look like giant jellyfish if you are right below them and, since the wind blows them all in the same direction, they end up looking like an orange Milky Way (at least until they come down again).

At midnight we were facing the lake to watch the fireworks at the other side, while behind us was the local temple. Just as Star Wars errupted in front of us, the monks started (amplified) chanting behind us - the transience of worldly pleasures juxtaposed with the timelessness of the Dhamma.

[sabaijai]

At Wat Phra That Doi Suthep there were two tua mom guarding the meditation centre. My Thai friends hadn't heard of this creature ("mom" just means dirty). Anyone know what part this creature plays in Buddhism or Thai folklore?

I noticed the one on the left had its mouth closed...

while the one on the right had its mouth open...

This is the same as the nio which guard Japanese temples and the shishi lion-dogs that guard shrines. The left one with mouth closed is always uttering "Un" (the last letter of the Sanskrit alphabet) and the right one is uttering "Ah" (the first letter), but explanations vary as to what they symbolise. I wonder if this applies to Theravada as well as Mahayana Buddhism?

I don't know for sure, but those look like Chinese foo dogs, probably placed there because the donor for that building was Chinese. Just a guess. I have seen them before in many temples, always Chinese (or parts of Thai temples that were Chinese).

The foo dogs may be the same as the Japanese shishi, according to this website:

foo shishi

And another explanation for one mouth open, one closed:

Shishi are depicted with their mouth open (to scare off demons) or closed (to shelter and keep in the good spirits).

[sabaijai]

Anyone come across any glossy books on Lanna/Northern temples? I couldn't find anything on Amazon. I might have to go back and take another look without the New Year crowds.

Yes, probably the best is one by Michael Freeman, called Lanna: Thailand's Northern Kingdom. Lots of nice photos by Freeman himself. Widely available at bookshops in Chiang Mai and Bangkok.

[camerata]

I don't know for sure, but those look like Chinese foo dogs, probably placed there because the donor for that building was Chinese. Just a guess. I have seen them before in many temples, always Chinese (or parts of Thai temples that were Chinese).

I think the function of the tua mom and lion-dogs is obviously the same, but these particular ones look more like reptiles with a frog or dragon face to me. A picture I found of another Northern tua mom at Mae Rim looks even more reptilian:

If I understand the text correctly at http://www.doisuthep.com/Text/mom.html this creature is part of Lanna culture although the technique of crafting them may be Chinese.

I wonder if "mom" is actually a Northern dialect word with a different meaning from "dirty?"

[sabaijai]

The gist of the text in that link says:

มีรูปร่างคล้ายแมวผสมสิงโต ดังนั้นบุคลิกของมอม จึงดูเหมือนจะน่ากลัวแต่บางครั้งก็ดูขี้เล่น แต่สล่าหรือช่างปั้นบางท่านก็ปั้นมอม ดูคล้ายตุ๊กแก

"[The mawm ] has a body shape similar to a cat mixed with a tiger, hence the mawm has a rather frightening yet at times playful character. However some artisans sculpt the mawm to resemble a gecko [ตุ๊กแก/tuk-kae]"

The rest of the text is general info about how the mawm is one of a class of deities that can't stay in heaven, so they take it upon themselves to guard holy places on earth.

Nothing about Chinese origins, etc.

I found an entry in the RID that defines mawm as "a mythical animal form, often tattooed onto the body. Most are in the shape of lions."

Interesting temple motif, thanks for pointing this out. I realise I must have seen these dozens of times, yet never thought about what they were or what they meant.

[camerata]

Yes, probably the best is one by Michael Freeman, called Lanna: Thailand's Northern Kingdom. Lots of nice photos by Freeman himself. Widely available at bookshops in Chiang Mai and Bangkok.

OK, I found this at Kinokuniya and it's just what I need. Strange the entry on Wat Umong doesn't mention the Ashoka Pillar. Have you heard of any other temple in Thailand that has one? In Japan you can find every conceivable buddha, deity, boddhisattva, sage and mythical creature - even a deer park - but I've never seen an Ashoka Pillar.

[sabaijai]

Yes, probably the best is one by Michael Freeman, called Lanna: Thailand's Northern Kingdom. Lots of nice photos by Freeman himself. Widely available at bookshops in Chiang Mai and Bangkok.

OK, I found this at Kinokuniya and it's just what I need. Strange the entry on Wat Umong doesn't mention the Ashoka Pillar. Have you heard of any other temple in Thailand that has one? In Japan you can find every conceivable buddha, deity, boddhisattva, sage and mythical creature - even a deer park - but I've never seen an Ashoka Pillar.

I know Michael, and if I had to guess why he didn't include the Ashoka Pillar at Wat Umong, I'd say it's because it's a copy rather than an original. Also it's copied in a much smaller scale than the original I believe.

The building next to the pillar has motifs from other Indian monuments as well, including reliefs copied from reliefs from the Great Stupa at Sanchi. It's not really a very nice-looking building, overall. The pillar and bldg date to a period in the 70s when Buddhadasa's ecumenical approach was supported by bringing in lots of symbols from other countries.

Wat Umong nowadays is really an interesting pastiche of many different styles, isn't it? It has the only ordination chapel I've seen in Thailand that has screened doors and windows. My favourite area is still the original stupa and brick-lined tunnels towards the back of the property.

[camerata]

The building next to the pillar has motifs from other Indian monuments as well, including reliefs copied from reliefs from the Great Stupa at Sanchi.

That's another thing I've seen in Japan. There is a scale replica of the Sanchi Stupa at a temple in western Kyoto.

Wat Umong nowadays is really an interesting pastiche of many different styles, isn't it? It has the only ordination chapel I've seen in Thailand that has screened doors and windows. My favourite area is still the original stupa and brick-lined tunnels towards the back of the property.

Yes, the stupa set in a kind of grassy field has a lot of charm. But with a 35mm lens you can't shoot any more than just the stupa itself. I liked the meditation tunnels too, but the incense was a bit much for my lungs.

[camerata]

Lot of us in and around CM at the moment. Anyone interested in a cup of tea and a chat?

Maybe we should try a Buddhist Forum get-together in Bangkok sometime. Sunday lunch at the Whole Earth or something similar.

[Rinrada]

Sounds like a nice idea.....

Now that I seem to have worked out how to add picts heres one of our local wat in mae on..but dont think that you will ever find it...