Palm Oil Or Rubber

[Big Guy]

dont think wind would be an issue, get 3 or 4 rows into any plantation of any kind and you wouldn't know where it was coming from

[donx]

Making the latex sheets isn't hard if you have the right equipment. Some pans and a roller and chemicals. It is just labour intensive. Surely you can find someone to observe. The processed sheets are then dried and hauled to a buyer. Just stack them in back of a pickup and haul. There should be buyers in ST. The whole process require some skill and knowledge and shouldn't be a problem to do it yourself if in reasonable shape, but is fairly labor intensive and that is why a lot of people subcontract it for 40 - 50% Always be aware that someone is itching to steal your rubber and equipment.

When my brothers-in-law were tapping the 17 rai we recently sold, they simply sold the latex sap to someone else. They did this because not only is the process labor intesive and the initial equipment investment expensive, but because the process is dangerous. My wife said that the chemicals used in the process can "eat your flesh", so unless you are careful and know what you are doing, it isn't something you should attempt to do. Additionally, there are so many people in my wife's area that grow rubber that it is easy for her family to find someone else willing to buy the sap at a reasonably price.

[Ramses]

Today my wife and me watched on I-TV here in Germany (we receive it over satelite) about a Thai-Farmer around Udon.

He was one of the first people in Isaan to try his luck with rubbertrees. He said, that it is very important for the yield, that you are puting enough fertilizer to your trees (50kg/rai two times a year) for the yield he is getting right now.

He sais he gets about 30 to 38 Pan of liquid rubber per twelve rai of land. as i know of my friend in rayong, who also

has got a rubberfarm, this is about the right number. my friend gets about 20 to 24 pan for his six rai of land. but the

yield in isaan is lower than there. one pan rolled out and dried is goin to turn into a sheet of 1.4 kg of dried rubber.

the price per kilogram of rubber today is 66 baht. the are tapping the rubber three days and giving it a one day rest.

The wind does matter for the rubber plantation (if the wind is unusual constant). It is the same reason, why the tappers are

cutting the trees in the evening. the sun is drying out the wound to quick. so in the evening the

drying time is longer and the yield higher. the wind is having the dame effect. if it blows constantly it is drying out the fresh cut

quicker as usual. your yield will be lower.

the process of making sheets: yes it is a quite stinky work. my freind is from denmark and making his own sheets together with his

thaiwife of course. the acid they are using can also harm you. but as i understood it is just a bit stronger as aminoacid (ant-acid)

he is filling the liquid rubber into some pans made of aluminium (it looked like stainless steel but i dont believe it is). then he is adding

that mix of chemicals (he showed me a canister full with "made in germany" on it) he said the quality and kind of it is very important.

after about 15 to 25 minutes (i dont remember so exactly how much time passed by, we were talking to much) the rubber is becoming

stronger. after that he rolls it out between some stainless rolls (it is a kind of machine, that he is controlling with his right foot.

while he rolls it out from above some whater drops from above the machin on the rolls, but just drops.

after that is done, he hangs the sheets up to dry out. and later he is bringing the sheets to a buyer. there are some huge rubberfactories

around rayong, and they are buying milk or the ready sheets, at different prices of course.

excuse me for the gramatically and written mistakes i made here, i am right now in a hurry (as allways)

oh and by the way, we planted about 30 rai of rubbertrees between april an may in the isaan, the trees are doing to now perfect.

Edited December 21, 2006 by Ramses

[SanukJoe]

Today my wife and me watched on I-TV here in Germany (we receive it over satelite) about a Thai-Farmer around Udon.

He was one of the first people in Isaan to try his luck with rubbertrees. He said, that it is very important for the yield, that you are puting enough fertilizer to your trees (50kg/rai two times a year) for the yield he is getting right now.

He sais he gets about 30 to 38 Pan of liquid rubber per twelve rai of land. as i know of my friend in rayong, who also

has got a rubberfarm, this is about the right number. my friend gets about 20 to 24 pan for his six rai of land. but the

yield in isaan is lower than there. one pan rolled out and dried is goin to turn into a sheet of 1.4 kg of dried rubber.

the price per kilogram of rubber today is 66 baht. the are tapping the rubber three days and giving it a one day rest.

The wind does matter for the rubber plantation (if the wind is unusual constant). It is the same reason, why the tappers are

cutting the trees in the evening. the sun is drying out the wound to quick. so in the evening the

drying time is longer and the yield higher. the wind is having the dame effect. if it blows constantly it is drying out the fresh cut

quicker as usual. your yield will be lower.

the process of making sheets: yes it is a quite stinky work. my freind is from denmark and making his own sheets together with his

thaiwife of course. the acid they are using can also harm you. but as i understood it is just a bit stronger as aminoacid (ant-acid)

he is filling the liquid rubber into some pans made of aluminium (it looked like stainless steel but i dont believe it is). then he is adding

that mix of chemicals (he showed me a canister full with "made in germany" on it) he said the quality and kind of it is very important.

after about 15 to 25 minutes (i dont remember so exactly how much time passed by, we were talking to much) the rubber is becoming

stronger. after that he rolls it out between some stainless rolls (it is a kind of machine, that he is controlling with his right foot.

while he rolls it out from above some whater drops from above the machin on the rolls, but just drops.

after that is done, he hangs the sheets up to dry out. and later he is bringing the sheets to a buyer. there are some huge rubberfactories

around rayong, and they are buying milk or the ready sheets, at different prices of course.

excuse me for the gramatically and written mistakes i made here, i am right now in a hurry (as allways)

oh and by the way, we planted about 30 rai of rubbertrees between april an may in the isaan, the trees are doing to now perfect.

Totally agree with most of it, in Isaan one gets not more than 5 kg per rai (which your story confirmes). I'm planning to buy a machine for making sheets, then buy sap from the people around and sell the sheets to the rubber company, seems to be interesting...

People cut the trees after midnight because the flow of latex is better before sunrise, some cut 3 days and 1 day rest. As cutting is time consuming I will also (when the trees are ready) give the work to families and they get a 40% part of the yield.

I agree about the fertilizer, most important, and don't forget the factor water. In Isaan water is a problem on its own and one has to do something to get good results. If so trees in Isaan are shorter than in the south but thicker, so easier to cut.

I'm not sure if the time you planted the trees (april/may) is a good thing, Isaan people tell the best time is august/september, the rainy season, so we planted in september. We will see in 7 or 8 years

Joe

[timber]

I'm a bit confused here. Most of the people talk about getting a kilogram per rai per day in Issan and the people I know on the southern coast are getting between three and four rai per rai per day. Are you saying you should get five kg per day per rai in Issan or five kg per rai per week.

[Ramses]

I'm a bit confused here. Most of the people talk about getting a kilogram per rai per day in Issan and the people I know on the southern coast are getting between three and four rai per rai per day. Are you saying you should get five kg per day per rai in Issan or five kg per rai per week.

not only you are cofused! Every time I read an article about rubbertrees there are different informations.

I stood next to my friend and saw him making thos 20 pans of rubber. Next time timber, when I come to Thailand,

you can come visit me, and I will bring you to that friend. If you want, we sure can watch them cutting the trees from the nighttime

until making the sheets in the morning. so one time you can have correct information.

But as my friend told me, there can be so many reasons, why your yield can be lower. the tappers ar not good enough. saving money and not

using enough fertilizer. the story about the isaan-guy my wife was watching with me and translating. and the yield with 30 pans per 12 rai

is about 3.5 kg per rai. so there is the question about the pan. is the size of a pan everywhere the same?

the number for me sounds real as for sanukjoe.

about the planting this april or may. yes sanukjoe you are right. usually you are planting the trees at the beginning of the rainingseason.

but as you remember this year the season startet earlier. too early. we were buying the young trees in january and rose them in a kind of

nursery under shadow. then my mother in law told us, i think it was may, that the rain starts already and everyone around there started to

plant rubbertrees. usually that time it is to dry, to plant the young trees, they are drying out quickly. but everything went perfect, and our trees are doing very well.

the idea with buying the sap is very good. i also thought already about this. in isaan, there are many people just starting with rubbertrees, and no rubbercompanies are around. so no trouble around. you can use this like a startup chance. paying people to work for you.

for me it is to early to start with that. because right now my wife and me are still living here in germany. and we have to save some more money to move over to thailand.

[donx]

I'm a bit confused here. Most of the people talk about getting a kilogram per rai per day in Issan and the people I know on the southern coast are getting between three and four rai per rai per day. Are you saying you should get five kg per day per rai in Issan or five kg per rai per week.

not only you are cofused! Every time I read an article about rubbertrees there are different informations.

I stood next to my friend and saw him making thos 20 pans of rubber. Next time timber, when I come to Thailand,

you can come visit me, and I will bring you to that friend. If you want, we sure can watch them cutting the trees from the nighttime

until making the sheets in the morning. so one time you can have correct information.

But as my friend told me, there can be so many reasons, why your yield can be lower. the tappers ar not good enough. saving money and not

using enough fertilizer. the story about the isaan-guy my wife was watching with me and translating. and the yield with 30 pans per 12 rai

is about 3.5 kg per rai. so there is the question about the pan. is the size of a pan everywhere the same?

the number for me sounds real as for sanukjoe.

I will assume you are saying the yeild is about 3.5 kg per rai per day. If they cut 3 out of 4 days, then the yearly output per rai would be about 958 kg per rai per year. That seems too high to me. I have seen averages reported in the South of about 280 kg per rai per year.

Having said that, I know that there are times when the production is higher. For example, when there is rain every day but it doesn't rain all day and it doesn't rain at all during the night. There are times, such as in November in the South, when there is too much rain to tap the trees at all. Perhaps the yield of 3.5 kg per rai per day is a rare case and that normally the yields are around 1 kg per rai per day. If I remember correctly I believe I estimated that the number of days per year when rubber is collected is around 200 days. This would make an average output of 280 kg per rai per year occur if the average daily output is 1.4 kg per rai per day.

[donx]

Here is an interesting report I just found on the internet (it's a PDF document):

Rubber Plantations in Southern Thailand

Here is an excerpt from the report:

Table 1. Small-scale rubber farmer characteristics (Chantuma 2006;

Eakwanich 2006; Royal Forest Department 2003).

Average Small-scale rubber farm holding 7-8 rai

Average yield: 1787 kg/ha/year

Production cost: 32, 03 baht/kg

Harvesting/tapping cost: 46, 95 per cent

Proportion of annual rubber income within overall family income: Up to 95 per cent

Tapping days:

• Northern and North-eastern Thailand: 180 days/year

• Eastern Thailand: 150-180 days/year

• Upper Southern Thailand: 100-120 days/year

• Lower Southern Thailand: 150-180 days/year

Average small-scale rubber production: 280 kg/rai/year

Average small-scale rubber income: 50,00 baht/kg

Average small-scale rubber farmer gross income: 98000 baht/kg (approx.)

I haven't read through the report yet, but it looks like it gives an awful lot of valuable information about growing rubber trees in Thailand.

[SanukJoe]

I'm a bit confused here. Most of the people talk about getting a kilogram per rai per day in Issan and the people I know on the southern coast are getting between three and four rai per rai per day. Are you saying you should get five kg per day per rai in Issan or five kg per rai per week.

not only you are cofused! Every time I read an article about rubbertrees there are different informations.

I stood next to my friend and saw him making thos 20 pans of rubber. Next time timber, when I come to Thailand,

you can come visit me, and I will bring you to that friend. If you want, we sure can watch them cutting the trees from the nighttime

until making the sheets in the morning. so one time you can have correct information.

But as my friend told me, there can be so many reasons, why your yield can be lower. the tappers ar not good enough. saving money and not

using enough fertilizer. the story about the isaan-guy my wife was watching with me and translating. and the yield with 30 pans per 12 rai

is about 3.5 kg per rai. so there is the question about the pan. is the size of a pan everywhere the same?

the number for me sounds real as for sanukjoe.

I will assume you are saying the yeild is about 3.5 kg per rai per day. If they cut 3 out of 4 days, then the yearly output per rai would be about 958 kg per rai per year. That seems too high to me. I have seen averages reported in the South of about 280 kg per rai per year.

Having said that, I know that there are times when the production is higher. For example, when there is rain every day but it doesn't rain all day and it doesn't rain at all during the night. There are times, such as in November in the South, when there is too much rain to tap the trees at all. Perhaps the yield of 3.5 kg per rai per day is a rare case and that normally the yields are around 1 kg per rai per day. If I remember correctly I believe I estimated that the number of days per year when rubber is collected is around 200 days. This would make an average output of 280 kg per rai per year occur if the average daily output is 1.4 kg per rai per day.

Figures always confuse as you cannot compare often. I should have added figures, sorry.

As timber said correctly you have 9 months of no (not too much) rain, and when raining cutting is impossible. From these 270 days (in my example) 75% of the days is used for cutting, making it 200 days real cut. When I mentioned 5 kg it is per 3 day cut per rai, as they cut 3 days, stop one day, cut 3 days again. It totals about 4.2 kg per tree per year. that's why I said 5 kg is the maximum (per year per tree). In the south they have thin trees that give not the same yield as in Isaan.

Joe

[SanukJoe]

Here is an interesting report I just found on the internet (it's a PDF document):

Rubber Plantations in Southern Thailand

Here is an excerpt from the report:

Table 1. Small-scale rubber farmer characteristics (Chantuma 2006;

Eakwanich 2006; Royal Forest Department 2003).

Average Small-scale rubber farm holding 7-8 rai

Average yield: 1787 kg/ha/year

Production cost: 32, 03 baht/kg

Harvesting/tapping cost: 46, 95 per cent

Proportion of annual rubber income within overall family income: Up to 95 per cent

Tapping days:

• Northern and North-eastern Thailand: 180 days/year

• Eastern Thailand: 150-180 days/year

• Upper Southern Thailand: 100-120 days/year

• Lower Southern Thailand: 150-180 days/year

Average small-scale rubber production: 280 kg/rai/year

Average small-scale rubber income: 50,00 baht/kg

Average small-scale rubber farmer gross income: 98000 baht/kg (approx.)

I haven't read through the report yet, but it looks like it gives an awful lot of valuable information about growing rubber trees in Thailand.

Great post. As you can see Isaan has more days for cutting than the south, on top Isaan has thicker trees than the south. I've seen very skinny trees on Phuket Island, not really worth to cut.

I would conclude that the south gets 3.5 kg per tree per year and Isaan 4.2 kg, but it surely depends highly on circumstances.

[donx]

Here is an interesting report I just found on the internet (it's a PDF document):

Rubber Plantations in Southern Thailand

Here is an excerpt from the report:

Table 1. Small-scale rubber farmer characteristics (Chantuma 2006;

Eakwanich 2006; Royal Forest Department 2003).

Average Small-scale rubber farm holding 7-8 rai

Average yield: 1787 kg/ha/year

Production cost: 32, 03 baht/kg

Harvesting/tapping cost: 46, 95 per cent

Proportion of annual rubber income within overall family income: Up to 95 per cent

Tapping days:

• Northern and North-eastern Thailand: 180 days/year

• Eastern Thailand: 150-180 days/year

• Upper Southern Thailand: 100-120 days/year

• Lower Southern Thailand: 150-180 days/year

Average small-scale rubber production: 280 kg/rai/year

Average small-scale rubber income: 50,00 baht/kg

Average small-scale rubber farmer gross income: 98000 baht/kg (approx.)

I haven't read through the report yet, but it looks like it gives an awful lot of valuable information about growing rubber trees in Thailand.

Great post. As you can see Isaan has more days for cutting than the south, on top Isaan has thicker trees than the south. I've seen very skinny trees on Phuket Island, not really worth to cut.

I would conclude that the south gets 3.5 kg per tree per year and Isaan 4.2 kg, but it surely depends highly on circumstances.

I don't know about kg per tree per year figures. Those don't seem to be available anywhere. What I do see are kg per rai per year figures and every one of those that I have seen ALWAYS shows rubber production in Southern Thailand as greater than rubber production anywhere else in Thailand.

Check out the following link for an example of such a report. Just google "rubber per rai" to see where I'm getting my information:

Para Rubber

[SanukJoe]

Here is an interesting report I just found on the internet (it's a PDF document):

Rubber Plantations in Southern Thailand

Here is an excerpt from the report:

Table 1. Small-scale rubber farmer characteristics (Chantuma 2006;

Eakwanich 2006; Royal Forest Department 2003).

Average Small-scale rubber farm holding 7-8 rai

Average yield: 1787 kg/ha/year

Production cost: 32, 03 baht/kg

Harvesting/tapping cost: 46, 95 per cent

Proportion of annual rubber income within overall family income: Up to 95 per cent

Tapping days:

• Northern and North-eastern Thailand: 180 days/year

• Eastern Thailand: 150-180 days/year

• Upper Southern Thailand: 100-120 days/year

• Lower Southern Thailand: 150-180 days/year

Average small-scale rubber production: 280 kg/rai/year

Average small-scale rubber income: 50,00 baht/kg

Average small-scale rubber farmer gross income: 98000 baht/kg (approx.)

I haven't read through the report yet, but it looks like it gives an awful lot of valuable information about growing rubber trees in Thailand.

Great post. As you can see Isaan has more days for cutting than the south, on top Isaan has thicker trees than the south. I've seen very skinny trees on Phuket Island, not really worth to cut.

I would conclude that the south gets 3.5 kg per tree per year and Isaan 4.2 kg, but it surely depends highly on circumstances.

I don't know about kg per tree per year figures. Those don't seem to be available anywhere. What I do see are kg per rai per year figures and every one of those that I have seen ALWAYS shows rubber production in Southern Thailand as greater than rubber production anywhere else in Thailand.

Check out the following link for an example of such a report. Just google "rubber per rai" to see where I'm getting my information:

Para Rubber

Hi

As always reports show different things. It depends who ordered to make the reports and from what point of view.

I believe the people around as they know what it's all about. For instance, we wanted to start building our house in feb 2007, but old people in the village said: don't do it, do it in march. We will start building in march, as I believe local people have more feeling for things than any marketing report can do.

[timber]

Thanks everyone.

Some good informative posts and more homework for me to do. I was talking kg of rubber per day. My sister in law was bring in 18 per 21 mats per day for 7 rai. They said they were 1 kg mats. I will check on that when I go down next. The bother in law was bringing in 48 mats for 15 rai and said he didn't tap all the trees. I am not sure how much they fertilize and how often they tap. I thought it was 3 days then rest a day, but last time we were down they were talking about tapping one day in three which seemed light. Will find out more. The 3 kg per day per rai is a hard number and varies a bit. You are right Joe in the south there are a lot less tapping days and it may equal out over a year with Issan. There are ways of tapping in the rain, but people are not interested. Like the time off I think. They make good money as the land was not purchased, just use on some type of government deal.

[timber]

Ramses

I am not doubting anyone. Just thirsty for knowledge. If you have the right soil types and moisture and fertilize properly then you should get good production. Is easier to get good production in the south than the north or northeast as there are less variables. I think there is room for more production on my in-laws plantation, but I am having problems finding out what they are doing. They are definitely getting about 3 kg per rai per day when tapping. Just don't know how heavy the sheets are. If they are bigger then they are getting more. You friend in Rayong is probably doing a very good job of managing his 6 rai and is getting a kg or so more than the inlaws. Would be fun to see some plantations and trade minds a bit.

[SanukJoe]

Thanks everyone.

Some good informative posts and more homework for me to do. I was talking kg of rubber per day. My sister in law was bring in 18 per 21 mats per day for 7 rai. They said they were 1 kg mats. I will check on that when I go down next. The bother in law was bringing in 48 mats for 15 rai and said he didn't tap all the trees. I am not sure how much they fertilize and how often they tap. I thought it was 3 days then rest a day, but last time we were down they were talking about tapping one day in three which seemed light. Will find out more. The 3 kg per day per rai is a hard number and varies a bit. You are right Joe in the south there are a lot less tapping days and it may equal out over a year with Issan. There are ways of tapping in the rain, but people are not interested. Like the time off I think. They make good money as the land was not purchased, just use on some type of government deal.

Hi Timber

You're right about finding out the truth, i.e. what is the weight of the mats. It also brings up the question of how many trees per rai. We have now 100 trees per rai, although the "norm" is 528 trees per ha (16 rows x 33 trees) which is 84 trees per rai. Maybe we should just see what it brings

[Ramses]

Thanks everyone.

Some good informative posts and more homework for me to do. I was talking kg of rubber per day. My sister in law was bring in 18 per 21 mats per day for 7 rai. They said they were 1 kg mats. I will check on that when I go down next. The bother in law was bringing in 48 mats for 15 rai and said he didn't tap all the trees. I am not sure how much they fertilize and how often they tap. I thought it was 3 days then rest a day, but last time we were down they were talking about tapping one day in three which seemed light. Will find out more. The 3 kg per day per rai is a hard number and varies a bit. You are right Joe in the south there are a lot less tapping days and it may equal out over a year with Issan. There are ways of tapping in the rain, but people are not interested. Like the time off I think. They make good money as the land was not purchased, just use on some type of government deal.

Hi Timber

You're right about finding out the truth, i.e. what is the weight of the mats. It also brings up the question of how many trees per rai. We have now 100 trees per rai, although the "norm" is 528 trees per ha (16 rows x 33 trees) which is 84 trees per rai. Maybe we should just see what it brings

abslolutly right sanukjoe and timber!

there are too many factors in that productivity calculation. from fertilizers to pan-size, sheet-weight and number of trees per rai in different locations.

as i see, timbers family isnt about that far from the numbers i heard.

i try only to get about the right figures. but also in thailand when you ask someone about the yields. you are never geting the same answers.

so this discussion is for me very interesting and full of information. and any help i can get out from this huge knowledgbase i am going to use. but my offer stands, timber. when i am there in thailand, we can meet. aslo to check out that woodproject in prachinburi if you want of course. here is also a website where i get a lot of informations from. with movies about the how to do things:

http://rubberboard.org.in/

[Ramses]

also information from official webpages are always different:

With the extension of the balanced fertilizer technology on the island, almost 100% of rubber plantations have used compound fertilizers since 1999. As a result, the average latex yield has increased from 4,350 kg/ha in 1994 to 5,260 kg/ha in 1999

this information is from: http://www.ppi-ppic.org/ppiweb/swchina.nsf...gator=home+page

[timber]

Ramses

Some very interesting sites that you listed. The last few days in this forum have been really informative. I grew up in the development of an industry where the conditions were harsh and extremely variable. Would meet with a group of people and develop ideas and take them away and apply as personnel conditions dictated. This applied to both equipment and methods used. We had very good experienced contractors doing the work. We would get government policies and company needs given to us and we had to figure out how to do in a productive cost effective way. I had a contractor who couldn't read or write, but had good experience and common sense and came up with adaptations than were used by many others. A thought for the future. Would be nice to have a group of people involved in the rubber industry get together for a few days and trade minds to see how we can each improve their lot. I think we all act as individuals when we should be networking to increase the opportunities for all. We aren't competing with each other to my knowledge. So if I can give you some ideas and I get some in return I am ahead. As my father told me when you quit learning it was time to call it quits. We can come up with an agenda of stuff people are wanting to learn more about, meet a bit drink a bit and build future contacts.

[timber]

[The purpose of this study was to evaluate the response of rubber tree [Hevea brasiliensis (Willd. ex Adr. de Juss.) Müell. Arg.] to NPK fertilization in order, to improve fertilizer recommendation during the immature phase of this crop. It reports the results obtained from an experiment conducted on a podzolic soil at Matão, State of São Paulo, Brazil. It was a randomized block design in a fractionated factorial experiment 1/2(4 x 4 x 4) using 0, 40, 80 and 120 kg.ha-1 of N, P2O5 e K2O. Fertilizers were applied every year starting eight months after planting. During the experimental period evaluations of trunk girth 1.20 m above the budgrafting union was measured at each four months. The percentage of plants able for tapping and the period of immaturity were calculated from girth measurements. Soil and plant analysis were performed at several ages. Plant responses to potassium fertilizations were observed starting at 24 months of plant age. Linear NK interaction was frequently observed after 48 months of plant age. Considering the percentage of plants able for tapping, responses were linearly and statistically significant for K fertilization, while N responses were observed in some ocasions. The immaturity period of the crop was significantly affected only by K fertilizers. Besides of this observation, the analysis of the response surface showed that the immaturity period was very dependent on equilibrated relations among nutrients. Unbalanced relations of NPK can delay up to 15 months the beginning of tapping, considering differences between the best and worst treatments. In the absence of K fertilization there was an antagonistic effect of N and P. Potassium fertilization was essential to reduce the immaturity period.

[SanukJoe]

also information from official webpages are always different:

With the extension of the balanced fertilizer technology on the island, almost 100% of rubber plantations have used compound fertilizers since 1999. As a result, the average latex yield has increased from 4,350 kg/ha in 1994 to 5,260 kg/ha in 1999

this information is from: http://www.ppi-ppic.org/ppiweb/swchina.nsf...gator=home+page

These figures really throw me off my socks! It means 8-10 kg per tree/year if we think of 528 trees/ha!! I think we should gather and give as much info as we can to prevent wrong comparisons (apples and pears, as the Dutch say). I like annual yield numbers as they skip the variable cutting days. No matter how often you cut, if you use etephon or not, at the end you have a yield per ha per year.

Here is another website with info: www.irrdb.com

Joe

[SanukJoe]

Ramses

A thought for the future. Would be nice to have a group of people involved in the rubber industry get together for a few days and trade minds to see how we can each improve their lot. I think we all act as individuals when we should be networking to increase the opportunities for all. We aren't competing with each other to my knowledge. So if I can give you some ideas and I get some in return I am ahead. As my father told me when you quit learning it was time to call it quits. We can come up with an agenda of stuff people are wanting to learn more about, meet a bit drink a bit and build future contacts.

Great idea Timber! Another idea is to concentrate on all rubber farmers in Thaiand and share info and experiences. I myself live in Isaan, so a gettogether in the south would be a bit difficult, but sharing mutual ins and outs about rubber can only do us good. Maybe a Rubber Forum?

Joe

[timber]

Joe

Some good ideas. Hehehe sanuk. Scoocumchuk means wild water in Salish an Indian dialect of coastal British Columbia. A forum we should think that over. We have this alread, although a log of good information gets lost because it is too cumbersome to look at it. Issan has the farming forum. A question to ask the powers that be. An oil palm and rubber forum would sure make it easier to find information and have a lot less questions asked by the newbies.

[SanukJoe]

Joe

Some good ideas. Hehehe sanuk. Scoocumchuk means wild water in Salish an Indian dialect of coastal British Columbia. A forum we should think that over. We have this alread, although a log of good information gets lost because it is too cumbersome to look at it. Issan has the farming forum. A question to ask the powers that be. An oil palm and rubber forum would sure make it easier to find information and have a lot less questions asked by the newbies.

Timber, you're right about Isaan farming forum. We also have Farming in Thailand forum. But I find it time comsuming to switch to the different forums and then skip the "non-rubber" topics.

As we are with a nice number of interested people for rubber/palm oil I would suggest mod/adm give it a chance, the Rubber/Palm oil forum. That way we can concentrate all info and stay close on topic.

Joe

[Nawtilus]

Or just a timber forum, then we can discuss all forms of timber farming in it and keep it in one area, easier to locate all the info then also.

[SanukJoe]

Or just a timber forum, then we can discuss all forms of timber farming in it and keep it in one area, easier to locate all the info then also.

I totally agree Nawtilus!

Joe

[timber]

SunukJoe

You are right. How do we go about it?

[SanukJoe]

SunukJoe

You are right. How do we go about it?

I will write to RamdomChance who is the mod of Farming in Thailand and of Isaan forum. Let you know if any news.

[SanukJoe]

SunukJoe

You are right. How do we go about it?

I will write to RamdomChance who is the mod of Farming in Thailand and of Isaan forum. Let you know if any news.

Done

[friend2]

Perhaps one thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is, there's land,

and then there's land.

Do never use the land prize only as your measuring stock !

There are several different types of land papers here.

If you think, wow ! that sounds cheap.

There are some things you should check out before making a purchase.

Thailand has lots of protected and "deed less" land, that's being used for agricultural purposes.

Farming such land can be a risky proposition, as the government can

take it away from you without any notice !

Usually, this is the kinda land you see, being sold at a third of the price

from land where you have the correct papers.

So what are the deeds you should look out for ?

Only buy land which has either the "nu-so-sam" or "ko-sor-no-ha" papers.

("ko-sor-no-ha" is agricultural co-operative land, that after ownership of 5 years can be converted into "nu-so-sam".)

With "nu-so-sam" you can borrow money on the land from any commercial bank, and it can't be taken away from you.

You can also do it with "ko-sor-no-ha", but it has to be from the "agricultural co-operative bank" only.

Stay away from "so-po-kor-nung".

It is land that's being rented from the government.

They can take it back anytime, and you can't borrow on it either.

Never buy land with only a contract from the seller !

(I've seen it happen)

I've been doing oil palms for 15 years and I don't like much of what I see.

The oil palm prices today, are exactly the same as they were 10 years ago !

10 years ago, things were cheaper and fertilizer about half the prize.

Most Thais seems oblivious to this fact, but what it actually means is that

oil palm prices has been gradually decreasing.

The only bright side is that land prices has virtually sky rocketed during this time.

If you have the cash, doing either palm or rubber is better than having it in the bank.

As a foreigner you can't own land, so make sure you trust your partner 100%

before going shopping.

When we bought our land some 15 years ago, we got the whole investment back within about 5 years.

Today I think it'll take between 20-30 years, at least if you're into palm.

Edited December 28, 2006 by friend2

[timber]

Thanks for the information Friend2. My brother in law has been running a rubber plantation for about 20 on booked land. You would tear your hair out if you knew what that was. How much per kg are you selling palm oil fruit for these days? Appreciate your answer. I think it was 1 - 1.5 baht per kg I think about a year ago.