Bangkok-Chiang Mai High Speed Rail Ready By 2018: Transport Ministry

[gand]

That must be what the trillion Baht is designated for, (re)moving mountains. Which reminds me, isn't CM a seismic area? Can HST systems withstand such events? Japan must have similar issues to contend with.

Bullet Trains Emergency Shutdown 9 seconds before Earthquake began

http://eandt.theiet.org/blog/blogpost.cfm?threadid=40668&catid=369

[Reasonableman]

So they place seismic sensors to detect an imminent earthquake, and shut the train down completely. In the Sendai quake in Japan, one train 200k from Sendai was apparently stuck in a tunnel without motive power for about 18 hours. The tracks, rolling stock, and associated systems and infrastructure must also be designed to withstand the stresses of a quake. Perhaps building railways isn't such a straightforward matter, after all.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Reasonableman

[thaiphoon]

1 off-topic post has been removed.

[KED]

Amazing Thailand that they can build a bullet-train from Bangkok to Chaing Mai in 6 years but they cannot open the BTS extension beyond Wongwian Yai in 10 years !

[folium]

So they place seismic sensors to detect an imminent earthquake, and shut the train down completely. In the Sendai quake in Japan, one train 200k from Sendai was apparently stuck in a tunnel without motive power for about 18 hours. The tracks, rolling stock, and associated systems and infrastructure must also be designed to withstand the stresses of a quake. Perhaps building railways isn't such a straightforward matter, after all.

If a railway track crosses a fault line you can have all sorts of interesting complications.

See below for a messed up rail line near Christchurch, NZ, after the Feb 2011 quake.

Bit of an ask even for a Bullet Train to jump this one!

Edited May 23, 2012 by folium

[TinoThailand]

• Why not build a normal line from the North to the North East in 1 year? Could also connect with other countries.
  
• High speed, I fly to BKK from CM in 1 hour for less then 50 bucks sometimes
  

[TinoThailand]

Now you pay between 500 and 1.200 for the train BKK to CM,

You fly between 1.000 and 2.000 Baht mostly if you book.

I really wonder what price there would be comming out of this project and if many people feel excited about it.

[RickBradford]

Another political vanity project. They would do far better to use half the money and upgrade all the lines in the country to a reasonable standard and double-track them where needed (to the South) for example.

Nobody really needs 350kph trains, but if they could lift Thailand's services reliably above 35kph it would be a start.

But then again, the Chinese are always happy to test unproven technology or engineering shortcuts in other countries before exposing their own citizens to the problems.

[rubl]

On 2009-11-11:

"By The Nation

The economic ministers on Wednesday approved the Bt100, billion high-speed train construction in four routes, from Bangkok to Chiang Mai, Nong Khai, Chanthaburi and Padang Besar.

Deputy Prime Minister Korbsak Sabhavasu said that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva instructed the Transport Ministry to first focus on the eastern route as it is the shortest. The detailed investment plan must be completed within 45 days, to be submitted to the Cabinet for approval by the end of this year."

The other newspaper added

"A feasibility study will also be made of the construction of rail tracks for high-speed trains on four routes: Bangkok-Chiang Mai (745km), Bangkok-Nong Khai (615km), Bangkok-Chanthaburi (330km), and Bangkok-Padang Besar (985km). The study is to be finished in three months."

2012-05-23: How time flies when you're having fun

[bigbamboo]

Never mind the technical feasibility what about the economic feasibility?

How muchwill the tickets cost and how many Thais will be able or willing to fork out huge sums of money to buy one?

How many people per day actually want to make these journeys?

Have the Thais been polled to ask if they this is needed and how much use they would make of it?

Why no mention of these basic questions?

Are there any independantly audited accounts / budgets for building and operating High Speed trains from any country ?

I believe that none are profitable on straight economic terms. Cost v. direct income.

They are justified on "social" terms, or political grounds. Terms such as "green benefits" "national prestige" begin to surface. mmmm !

BUT, the truly worrying aspect must be "high speed" anything in any country where corruption is prevalent

Like internet connection for example?

On the positive side Thailand could have the world's first dum-dum bullet train.

Edited May 23, 2012 by bigbamboo

[bangkokrick]

Seems like this is really taking off.

WIKI.

Proposed high-speed links to Europe and South-East Asia

China is in negotiations to build a continent-spanning high-speed rail network with destinations as far away as London and Germany, within the next ten years. Chinese railway consultant from China's Academy of Engineering; Wang Mengshu, said the 8,157 km (5,069 mi) journey (from Beijing to London) would take just two days to complete, traveling at speeds of up to 345 km/h (215 mph). Mr Wang said that China was already in negotiations with 17 countries over the rail lines, which will draw together and open up the whole of Central, East and South East Asia. Mr Wang said the network would also allow China to transport valuable cargoes of raw materials more efficiently.

Mr Wang said; "We have also already carried out the prospecting and survey work for the European network, and Central and Eastern European countries are keen for us to start," Mr Wang said. "The Northern network will be the third one to start, although China and Russia have already agreed on a high-speed line across Siberia, where one million Chinese already live." A second project would see trains heading north through Russia to Germany and into the European railway system, and a third line will extend south to connect Vietnam, Thailand, Burma and Malaysia.^{[18][19][20][21]}

^{Maybe 6 years could be possible!}

[bigbamboo]

Seems like this is really taking off.

WIKI.

Proposed high-speed links to Europe and South-East Asia

China is in negotiations to build a continent-spanning high-speed rail network with destinations as far away as London and Germany, within the next ten years. Chinese railway consultant from China's Academy of Engineering; Wang Mengshu, said the 8,157 km (5,069 mi) journey (from Beijing to London) would take just two days to complete, traveling at speeds of up to 345 km/h (215 mph). Mr Wang said that China was already in negotiations with 17 countries over the rail lines, which will draw together and open up the whole of Central, East and South East Asia. Mr Wang said the network would also allow China to transport valuable cargoes of raw materials more efficiently.

Mr Wang said; "We have also already carried out the prospecting and survey work for the European network, and Central and Eastern European countries are keen for us to start," Mr Wang said. "The Northern network will be the third one to start, although China and Russia have already agreed on a high-speed line across Siberia, where one million Chinese already live." A second project would see trains heading north through Russia to Germany and into the European railway system, and a third line will extend south to connect Vietnam, Thailand, Burma and Malaysia.^{[18][19][20][21]}

^{Maybe 6 years could be possible!}

Shades of the autobahns.......

But I guess they've got to spend some of their vast currency reserves on something.

[bangkokrick]

Seems like this is really taking off.

WIKI.

Proposed high-speed links to Europe and South-East Asia

China is in negotiations to build a continent-spanning high-speed rail network with destinations as far away as London and Germany, within the next ten years. Chinese railway consultant from China's Academy of Engineering; Wang Mengshu, said the 8,157 km (5,069 mi) journey (from Beijing to London) would take just two days to complete, traveling at speeds of up to 345 km/h (215 mph). Mr Wang said that China was already in negotiations with 17 countries over the rail lines, which will draw together and open up the whole of Central, East and South East Asia. Mr Wang said the network would also allow China to transport valuable cargoes of raw materials more efficiently.

Mr Wang said; "We have also already carried out the prospecting and survey work for the European network, and Central and Eastern European countries are keen for us to start," Mr Wang said. "The Northern network will be the third one to start, although China and Russia have already agreed on a high-speed line across Siberia, where one million Chinese already live." A second project would see trains heading north through Russia to Germany and into the European railway system, and a third line will extend south to connect Vietnam, Thailand, Burma and Malaysia.^{[18][19][20][21]}

^{Maybe 6 years could be possible!}

Shades of the autobahns.......

But I guess they've got to spend some of their vast currency reserves on something.

Never the less Beijing to London in 2 days would be awesome.

[gand]

Never mind the technical feasibility what about the economic feasibility?

How muchwill the tickets cost and how many Thais will be able or willing to fork out huge sums of money to buy one?

How many people per day actually want to make these journeys?

Have the Thais been polled to ask if they this is needed and how much use they would make of it?

Why no mention of these basic questions?

Are there any independantly audited accounts / budgets for building and operating High Speed trains from any country ?

I believe that none are profitable on straight economic terms. Cost v. direct income.

They are justified on "social" terms, or political grounds. Terms such as "green benefits" "national prestige" begin to surface. mmmm !

BUT, the truly worrying aspect must be "high speed" anything in any country where corruption is prevalent

Like internet connection for example?

On the positive side Thailand could have the world's first dum-dum bullet train.

Yes, the money would be better spent on the nationwide High Speed internet that was promised.

[gand]

Seems like this is really taking off.

WIKI.

Proposed high-speed links to Europe and South-East Asia

China is in negotiations to build a continent-spanning high-speed rail network with destinations as far away as London and Germany, within the next ten years. Chinese railway consultant from China's Academy of Engineering; Wang Mengshu, said the 8,157 km (5,069 mi) journey (from Beijing to London) would take just two days to complete, traveling at speeds of up to 345 km/h (215 mph). Mr Wang said that China was already in negotiations with 17 countries over the rail lines, which will draw together and open up the whole of Central, East and South East Asia. Mr Wang said the network would also allow China to transport valuable cargoes of raw materials more efficiently.

Mr Wang said; "We have also already carried out the prospecting and survey work for the European network, and Central and Eastern European countries are keen for us to start," Mr Wang said. "The Northern network will be the third one to start, although China and Russia have already agreed on a high-speed line across Siberia, where one million Chinese already live." A second project would see trains heading north through Russia to Germany and into the European railway system, and a third line will extend south to connect Vietnam, Thailand, Burma and Malaysia.^{[18][19][20][21]}

^{Maybe 6 years could be possible!}

Shades of the autobahns.......

But I guess they've got to spend some of their vast currency reserves on something.

Never the less Beijing to London in 2 days would be awesome.

Should make the invasion go smoother.

[garrya]

On 2009-11-11:

"By The Nation

The economic ministers on Wednesday approved the Bt100, billion high-speed train construction in four routes, from Bangkok to Chiang Mai, Nong Khai, Chanthaburi and Padang Besar.

Deputy Prime Minister Korbsak Sabhavasu said that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva instructed the Transport Ministry to first focus on the eastern route as it is the shortest. The detailed investment plan must be completed within 45 days, to be submitted to the Cabinet for approval by the end of this year."

The other newspaper added

"A feasibility study will also be made of the construction of rail tracks for high-speed trains on four routes: Bangkok-Chiang Mai (745km), Bangkok-Nong Khai (615km), Bangkok-Chanthaburi (330km), and Bangkok-Padang Besar (985km). The study is to be finished in three months."

2012-05-23: How time flies when you're having fun

Great comparison. Thanks for this, made me smile

[bangkokrick]

Gand I am in China at the moment on business and I took the high speed train 2 days ago. A normal 5 hour ride took 2 on the HST this gives me more time to visit customers and is a big plus for business. The cost was 75 Yuan around 7.50 GBP, so very cheap. The standards of the trains in my opinion is very high, akin to travelling in a plane. The carriages are comfortable and clean, no rubbish and graffiti like we see in the west. I really do not see a down side to this.

Bring it on Thailand.

Edited May 23, 2012 by bangkokrick

[harryfrompattaya]

Great idea. I hope they can pull it off.

I met a very important person in a bar today ( do not ask who ) he said this is true and the round trip fare will be 1800 bath for Farangs and Thai will pay only 189 bath round trip.

Edited May 23, 2012 by harryfrompattaya

[SomTumTiger]

2012 is half over and 3G is barely available.

I've had 3G for 3 years - what have you been doing lol.

[harryfrompattaya]

Now you pay between 500 and 1.200 for the train BKK to CM,

You fly between 1.000 and 2.000 Baht mostly if you book.

I really wonder what price there would be comming out of this project and if many people feel excited about it.

1800 Baht round trip for farang

[paul3404]

I do not think Thailand is ready for this, let them solve the flood problems first and learn Thai to drive. Such a railway is asking for many problems and a need of thousants of security personel.

They have it in china already and the Chinese are a thousand times worse at driving than the Thais.

[Semper]

The Transport Minister has expressed confidence that the first high speed railway connecting Bangkok and Chiang Mai will be ready for service by 2018

I wonder if it will have to make frequent stops to allow trains going the other way to pass?

The Transport Minister has expressed confidence that the first high speed railway connecting Bangkok and Chiang Mai will be ready for service by 2018

I wonder if it will have to make frequent stops to allow trains going the other way to pass?

Of course there will be frequent stops. The foodvendors must get on and off.

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts have been removed.

[SPIKECM]

time and hassle going to the airport? You never used the sky link? ....what is it.....14 hours by train? I tried the 1st class bus with 1st class aircraft seats last year daytime.. all the Thai kept curtains closed.. 9 hours of hell.. horrible tinny feel to the bus.. give me a Bangkok Airways flight any day... the overnight train is a good atmosphere, but for 350 baht that has to a long daytime drag or worse, trying to sleep on a seat at night... The only way I would go by train would be overnight sleeper, but the problem is you don't sleep too well, waking up at every stop. I hope this fast train become a reality..but 2008 is a joke.

Why just Chiang Mai why not go up a few more miles to Chiang Rai too, whilst I would welcome a faster service, it seems like a certain family are doing the best they can to benefit their own home town.

True but it does make sense to open up that end of the country to future links with China. Personally I don't know why anyone would take a train, high speed or not, rather than fly. Flights are not expensive and they're a lot faster.

You're obviously not a fan of Paul Theroux - many people prefer trains..... and buses. They often go to the centre of the city, save a lot of money (eg I go from Chiang Mai to Bangkok for B350, comfortably - try doing that on a plane) and lots of time and hassle getting from the airport to where you want to go

[scorecard]

time and hassle going to the airport? You never used the sky link? ....what is it.....14 hours by train? I tried the 1st class bus with 1st class aircraft seats last year daytime.. all the Thai kept curtains closed.. 9 hours of hell.. horrible tinny feel to the bus.. give me a Bangkok Airways flight any day... the overnight train is a good atmosphere, but for 350 baht that has to a long daytime drag or worse, trying to sleep on a seat at night... The only way I would go by train would be overnight sleeper, but the problem is you don't sleep too well, waking up at every stop. I hope this fast train become a reality..but 2008 is a joke.

Why just Chiang Mai why not go up a few more miles to Chiang Rai too, whilst I would welcome a faster service, it seems like a certain family are doing the best they can to benefit their own home town.

True but it does make sense to open up that end of the country to future links with China. Personally I don't know why anyone would take a train, high speed or not, rather than fly. Flights are not expensive and they're a lot faster.

You're obviously not a fan of Paul Theroux - many people prefer trains..... and buses. They often go to the centre of the city, save a lot of money (eg I go from Chiang Mai to Bangkok for B350, comfortably - try doing that on a plane) and lots of time and hassle getting from the airport to where you want to go

Sure flying can be faster in term sof the actual journey time, but there's also the time spent getting to the airport check-in wat at departure lounge etc.

Last week I did a quick flying trip from Chiang Mai to Pattaya and return for a meeting.

- Check-in in CM then wait for a minimum of 30 to 40 minutes before baording

- One hour flying

- I took the standard airport bus (which many people would do) from swampy to the Jomtien - 2 hours

- Friend picked me up then 10 minutes drive to company office.

Return:

- Delivery to Jomtien Bus terminal

- Two hours bus trip to swampy

- Check in then wait a minimum of 30 to 40 minutes or longer

- One hour flight

etc.

On the other hand most train stations, and one would hope also in Thailand with the new high speed trains depart from inner city , there is no need for check-in, wait etc. Arrival is usually in the centre of the city.

I worked in Japan for quite a while, the fast train services (shinkanzen) are fabulous, all connect well with other local train services etc., overall time for a journey is well compacted.

[folium]

Sure flying can be faster in term sof the actual journey time, but there's also the time spent getting to the airport check-in wat at departure lounge etc.

Last week I did a quick flying trip from Chiang Mai to Pattaya and return for a meeting.

- Check-in in CM then wait for a minimum of 30 to 40 minutes before baording

- One hour flying

- I took the standard airport bus (which many people would do) from swampy to the Jomtien - 2 hours

- Friend picked me up then 10 minutes drive to company office.

Return:

- Delivery to Jomtien Bus terminal

- Two hours bus trip to swampy

- Check in then wait a minimum of 30 to 40 minutes or longer

- One hour flight

etc.

On the other hand most train stations, and one would hope also in Thailand with the new high speed trains depart from inner city , there is no need for check-in, wait etc. Arrival is usually in the centre of the city.

I worked in Japan for quite a while, the fast train services (shinkanzen) are fabulous, all connect well with other local train services etc., overall time for a journey is well compacted.

Personally I hope that there is never a direct rail link from CM to Pattaya (can't have heaven crammed with riff-raff now!), but even with a high speed CM-Bangkok link you are still faced with a connection to Pattaya and from the city centre to Pattaya rather than from the eastern periphery.

To repeat an earlier post, CM to Bangkok and vice versa by plane could hardly be easier.

On Monday left central Bangkok at 2.30pm, took the train, checked in, caught the AA 3.50pm flight to CNX, got home at 5.25pm.

2 hours 55mins and a very painless trip.

[ginjag]

Same same -Air Asia. 1500 bht return-Udon-Swampy-3 hours Jomptien, return same. My car 1260 kilm return 8 hour e/w and 2,500 bht E20. wear and tear+ tired.

[gand]

Is there any cost justification for this? Or is it about the Shinawatra clan?

[tinom]

If it works as Thai 3G, trains will ride 56Km/h in 15 years...

[IsaanUSA]

If it works as Thai 3G, trains will ride 56Km/h in 15 years...

Unintentional 56K modem joke, referencing back to 3G internet speed?