Adding Name To Thai Birth Certificate When Currently Blank

[ccfc1927]

Hi

Wonder if anyone can advise, hypothetical question, my wife has an 8 year old daugther living in Thailand with my wifes parents. On her daughters birth certificate, no father's name is given, so my question is, is it possible to have my name added to the birth certificate? Im from the UK and that is where we both live.

Thanks in advance!

ccfc1927

[7by7]

I don't know the answer to your question, but:-

I notice you say "my wife has an 8 year old daugther....." not "We have...." or "I have......"

So I have to ask, are you the father?

If not, then wouldn't it be fraud to alter her birth certificate to say that you are? The UK government would certainly think so if you then tried to use that birth certificate to obtain a British passport for the girl!

If you and your wife want the girl to move to the UK and live with you, it does not matter whether you are the father or not. See 'Children' at UK Settlement Visa Basics.

[Soutpeel]

I don't know the answer to your question, but:-

I notice you say "my wife has an 8 year old daugther....." not "We have...." or "I have......"

So I have to ask, are you the father?

If not, then wouldn't it be fraud to alter her birth certificate to say that you are? The UK government would certainly think so if you then tried to use that birth certificate to obtain a British passport for the girl!

If you and your wife want the girl to move to the UK and live with you, it does not matter whether you are the father or not. See 'Children' at UK Settlement Visa Basics.

To follow on from these comments, if the child is not yours and you add your name, the goverment could also ask for addtional proof of your relationship to the child ie a DNA test and you would be really up sh*t creek..if the child is not yours dont do it...

[Basil B]

I would say that you would not be able to just have your name added as farther.

I am not sure on the DNA thing, weather the UKBA ask for or even review DNA evidence but to apply some 8 years latter to have your name added to a childs birth certificate is very questionable, even if you could get the Thai authorities to amend it I am sure if the intentions are to get the child a British Passport, UKBA are going to question whether you are the farther, even going as far to investigate whether it was possible for you to have been in Thailand at the time of conception.

One thing for sure if you claim to be the farther when you know you are not, it is fraud.

2006 Fraud Act (UK)

the Act gives a statutory definition of the criminal offense of fraud, defining it in three classes - fraud by false representation, fraud by failing to disclose information, and fraud by abuse of position. It provides that a person found guilty of fraud was liable to a fine or imprisonment for up to twelve months on summary conviction (six months in Northern Ireland), or a fine or imprisonment for up to ten years on conviction on indictment. This Act largely replaces the laws relating to obtaining property by deception, obtaining a pecuniary advantage and other offenses that were created under the Theft Act 1978. These offences attracted much criticism for their complexity and difficulty in proving at court. Much of the Theft Act 1978 has been repealed, however, the offence of making off without payment, defined under section 3 has not been affected.

• "Fraud by false representation" is defined by Section 2 of the Act as a case where a person makes "any representation as to fact or law ... express or implied" which they know to be untrue or misleading.
  
• "Fraud by failing to disclose information" is defined by Section 3 of the Act as a case where a person fails to disclose any information to a third party when they are under a legal duty to disclose such information.
  
• "Fraud by abuse of position" is defined by Section 4 of the Act as a case where a person occupies a position where they are expected to safeguard the financial interests of another person, and abuses that position; this includes cases where the abuse consisted of an omission rather than an overt act.
  

In all three classes of fraud, it requires that for an offence to have occurred, the person must have acted dishonestly, and that they had to have acted with the intent of making a gain for themselves or anyone else, or inflicting a loss (or a risk of loss) on another.

From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud_Act_2006

UK Gov: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/contents

I am sure anyone submitting applications to (or even being party to /Conspiring), the UKBA even if not in the UK are subject to UK law in respect of fraud.

[7by7]

I am not an expert in either UK or Thai law, but my thoughts are:-

Fraudulently altering a Thai birth certificate would be a matter for the Thai authorities, not the British ones.

It would be a concern of the British authorities if that certificate was then used to apply for entry clearance to the UK. Then such an application would be refused and the applicant could be banned from applying again for up to 10 years, with some exceptions, even for life. See immigration rules part 9.

However, if a Thai birth certificate were fraudulently altered to show a British citizen as the father, then one assumes the intention would be to then use that certificate to obtain a British passport for the child. This most certainly would be of concern to the British authorities; passport fraud is taken very seriously; see this case for example.

I am, as said, no legal expert; but I imagine that such an action could result in gaol for the British father and revocation of the Thai mother's leave to remain or British citizenship, whichever she holds, and her removal from the UK.

Having said all of that, it must be remembered that the OP has yet to say whether or not he is the child's natural father. If he is, then all this talk of fraud is hypothetical.

But if he is the father, then one does have to wonder why he is not named as such on the birth certificate.

Edit:

This topic from November 2010 indicates that he is not the father.

Therefore, as discussion of illegal activities is banned under the forum rules, topic closed.

But, ccfc1927, if you are in fact the father, then PM me and I will re open it and move it to the families forum where you are more likely to get the answer you want.

Edited May 30, 2012 by 7by7
Addendum