Most Thai Students Afraid To Work In Other ASEAN Countries: Survey

[timewilltell]

you mean 16 years old girl kill people in Thailand and nothing happened? this is what we are saying,our country is for the rich by the rich and for the rich,this is why am happy about this ASEAN coming up,all these nonsense will stop. Justice for all,if we do not give justice to all,then we might as well kiss investors and visitors goodbye

That will take awhile to sink in while the uneducated masses continue to accept selfish, bigoted people into power who destroy the country willingly for their personal gain. That is not any-Thaksin it's anti the whole lot of them. Leeches!

[Honkytowner]

I taught English to Thai-curriculum MBA students at a government university in Bangkok for two years. At the outset I was warned not to fail anybody, because this would affect the institution's record of academic achievement and result in a loss of income, as students would then go elsewhere to be assured of a pass.

Cheating during exams was the norm and nothing I did or said could stop it. The experience was truly demoralising and I've since found other more rewarding work.

If Thais can't learn to speak and write basic English by 2015, the country's economy is truly farked.

[timewilltell]

If I was Thai I would be afraid too. Here they can do what they want depending who their parents are and how much money they have. Not the same in other Asian countries.

Like the 16 year old little girl who ran a van off the road and killed a few people. What ever happeved to her. I never heard any more about it. Daddy took care of it for her and got her another car to drive as a battering ram.

Yes they paid the families off and since money is worth more than life here everyone happy. Thailand is the Tower of Babel so best they get English to the forefront then at least understanding will have a fighting chance!

[MaxLee]

I can say as a former volunteer English teacher that actually apart from that losing face crap,.. Yet I must say discipline is a Major problem. How can you expect a foreign teacher to keep a class of 40-70 children and students motivated in any subjects, when over 70 % of them run around in the classroom without regard to the teacher who can't speak their language anyway.

As of the worst is not over, one of the female kindergarten teachers kept beating the crap out of kindergarten 2 teachers as I was unable to stop their amok runs every day in my life, and nothing changed. Well I cannot blame the children for being so lively, because they naturally have a short attention span, but on the other hand it was frustrating not being able to do anything in disgust toy fellow teachers who are wondering about me , why is that Khun Thangchaat so soft on those children,... Because in Western society we don't beat kids...

That's the dilemma, if you're too soft Thai kids will continue to run around and do their thing, but if you beat them, you feel sorry for them.

The root of Thai behavior starts with social discipline with the other person and give them the respect and diversity that he or she deserves instead of prejudicing about stereotypes...

Thai teachers fight violence with violence!!!! From kindergarten until high school.

Let's say I can blame neither of them... Classrooms are overfilled and teachers overworked and underpaid.

It is the system that sucks, that is made by the ones who achieved power through rigid family ties and through cheating under the table... To save their sorry face from a world opening modern becoming economy..,

Edited May 30, 2012 by MaxLee

[ANTIRACIST]

Europe came together,everyone has to tighten up their belt,ASEAN is coming together we too have to tighten up our belt

[Reasonableman]

Europe as an economic model is hardly the star in the firmament right now, and is on the verge of imminent collapse. The parallel with ASEAN is...?

[ANTIRACIST]

Better to open all these borders for people to move around freely, this will increase the economy than closing them and yet nothing is happening

[Ferangled]

I can say as a former volunteer English teacher that actually apart from that losing face crap,.. Yet I must say discipline is a Major problem. How can you expect a foreign teacher to keep a class of 40-70 children and students motivated in any subjects, when over 70 % of them run around in the classroom without regard to the teacher who can't speak their language anyway.

As of the worst is not over, one of the female kindergarten teachers kept beating the crap out of kindergarten 2 teachers as I was unable to stop their amok runs every day in my life, and nothing changed. Well I cannot blame the children for being so lively, because they naturally have a short attention span, but on the other hand it was frustrating not being able to do anything in disgust toy fellow teachers who are wondering about me , why is that Khun Thangchaat so soft on those children,... Because in Western society we don't beat kids...

That's the dilemma, if you're too soft Thai kids will continue to run around and do their thing, but if you beat them, you feel sorry for them.

The root of Thai behavior starts with social discipline with the other person and give them the respect and diversity that he or she deserves instead of prejudicing about stereotypes...

Thai teachers fight violence with violence!!!! From kindergarten until high school.

Let's say I can blame neither of them... Classrooms are overfilled and teachers overworked and underpaid.

It is the system that sucks, that is made by the ones who achieved power through rigid family ties and through cheating under the table... To save their sorry face from a world opening modern becoming economy..,

I don't want to appear overly critical as you made it clear that you were a volunteer teacher but employing English teachers that have no formal training, little to no grasp of the Thai language and a pretty poor handle on the English language themselves isn't a great start.

Only yesterday I found myself correcting my daughter's "native English speaking" teacher's use of spelling and grammer on her report card; two sentences and 17 words, both sentences grammatically incorrect and a total of 6 spelling mistakes!!! Having just paid out extra for split Thai and English curriculum (private school), I am now finding out that these "teachers" have absolutely no qualifications in teaching, no qualifications in English and what's worse they are unable to communicate with both the other teachers and students.

How can you start to teach someone a new language without having a handle on their native tongue? What's worse these so called teachers are getting twice the salary of their Thai counterparts, some of whom are very good at their job. My daughter has excelled under one Thai teacher in particular and I find it deeply troubling that some spotty foreign brat with no relevant education and certainly no aptitude for teaching gets welcomed with open arms and paid twice that of a proven Thai teacher.

[belg]

if there english or other language skill is crap, than no way the will be able to work in another country, except in the adult amusement or nanny jobs, which sometimes is about the same

Edited May 30, 2012 by belg

[jacknorman]

They probably scared for beeing treated like thais do with other workers from countries around them

[seaeagle]

Europe as an economic model is hardly the star in the firmament right now, and is on the verge of imminent collapse. The parallel with ASEAN is...?

A little exaggerated, don't you think? 'Europe' per se ain't doing too bad, considering the recession suffered of late. Medicine is being taken and certain economies are slowly, but surely, steadying and recovering.

I think you mean that artificial currency called the EURO when you say 'imminent collapse', and that is down to one country in particular, and two or three more, possibly.

Successful economies are based on internal domestic demand, ie the ability to earn, compete, innovate, and consume. The nations of SE Asia, with a couple of notable exceptions, will never increase the standards of living of their populations by such a degree that domestic demand is stimulated so much. This region will, by and large, continue to make products that are consumed by 'the west', rather than by themselves.

[gand]

Are those ASEAN countries being taught Thai?

[Reasonableman]

Ahem... Grammar not Grammer... ;-)

Europe as an economic model is hardly the star in the firmament right now, and is on the verge of imminent collapse. The parallel with ASEAN is...?

A little exaggerated, don't you think? 'Europe' per se ain't doing too bad, considering the recession suffered of late. Medicine is being taken and certain economies are slowly, but surely, steadying and recovering.

I think you mean that artificial currency called the EURO when you say 'imminent collapse', and that is down to one country in particular, and two or three more, possibly.

Successful economies are based on internal domestic demand, ie the ability to earn, compete, innovate, and consume. The nations of SE Asia, with a couple of notable exceptions, will never increase the standards of living of their populations by such a degree that domestic demand is stimulated so much. This region will, by and large, continue to make products that are consumed by 'the west', rather than by themselves.

Fair enough, what's a few--1,2,3,4 or more--debt-ridden economies in a game of European dominoes, anyway? Will Germany be able to hold back the tide? We shall see. But this topic is not about Europe is it, so we may have been led astray. ;-)

Edited May 30, 2012 by Reasonableman

[animatic]

I don't know if an effective assessment of the ASEAN 2015 situation without looking at the other countries and what are their strengths and weaknesses. With the exception of Singapore and perhaps Malaysia, Thailand has good infrastructure and has a firm foot in the door on international trade agreements.

Language is a part of it--even a big part of it--but English is only the tip of the iceberg in the education arena. If you can't get English taught, what other subjects are you failing to teach?

Bottom line: English is the defacto language of world business and international commerce.

If you are not competent in English, you will be out of luck in the greater job market. While someone fluent in English, Thai and Chinese will be in great demand the next 10 years or more.

If they also have Maths/Accounting, Computer and Legal/Business Admin skills, with the 3 languages, they will be in a sellers market for high paying jobs. Add to that a respect and understanding of cultural differences, then they can become a star in the business world.

Edited May 30, 2012 by animatic

[dragon234]

Dear Ferangled:- First many Farang teachers are working closely with Thai teachers who know the mechanics of the English language. When I took my TESOL in Thailand, we had people from different countries such as Japan, Korea, Thailand, and Viet Nam. The instructors asked us should we have to learn every language before we could teach Thai? I know extremely little Thai, but I teach English. All my lessons are in English. The Thai teachers support me as I support them, and we work together as a team. Some teachers have little knowledge of the mechanics of the English grammar that is true, but mainly they are there to help speaking. It's a hard job, but it's good as well. Some students are very good, and some are not. Yes there are drawbacks within the educational system, but there are in every country. This is not to do a Ph.D. in English but to be able to work functionality in a work setting. Relax it's happening but you don't see it, but it's happening there are some very bright Thai's out there.

[geriatrickid]

Thailand has both direct and indirect protectionist policies that restrict the entry of foreign professionals and general workers. This is not going to disappear. The assumption that there will be an influx of ASEAN professionals into Thailand is false. Wherever there is a will, there is a way to retain protectionist policies. New regulations and procedures can always be introduced to interfere with free trade. Worried about the entry of accountants? Insist on entrants passing professional or language proficiency exams. Worried about the entry of foreign doctors and nurses? Maintain language requirements.

An excellent example is North America. Under NAFTA, the USA has successfully used the rules to block the entry of competitors into its market. Even outside of NAFTA, in Canada the provinces have such idiotic regulations that the inter provincial trade barriers make foreign rules look reasonable. US banking regulations block a real national banking system (in respect to branch networks). I'm not taking swipes at the USA or Canada, just providing an example of how states, provinces and national governments can interfere if they so choose. The focus is on how Thailand will suffer. Have a look at Singapore and Vietnam. The Vietnamese will find bureacratic ways to block foreign entrants and Singapore, a country I respect greatly for its business enviroment, will impose competency and filing regulations that will discourage ASEAN entrants into its market.

The concerns expressed all assume that Thailand will open its market. Based upon the prevailing Thai mentality, I just cannot see that happening. Someone, somewhere in Bangkok is the master of the rule book and he or she is just raring to go with new regulations to interfere.

[Ferangled]

Dear Ferangled:- First many Farang teachers are working closely with Thai teachers who know the mechanics of the English language. When I took my TESOL in Thailand, we had people from different countries such as Japan, Korea, Thailand, and Viet Nam. The instructors asked us should we have to learn every language before we could teach Thai? I know extremely little Thai, but I teach English. All my lessons are in English. The Thai teachers support me as I support them, and we work together as a team. Some teachers have little knowledge of the mechanics of the English grammar that is true, but mainly they are there to help speaking. It's a hard job, but it's good as well. Some students are very good, and some are not. Yes there are drawbacks within the educational system, but there are in every country. This is not to do a Ph.D. in English but to be able to work functionality in a work setting. Relax it's happening but you don't see it, but it's happening there are some very bright Thai's out there.

I'm sorry, please don't take my rant personally, it wasn't intended that way. I'm quite sure there are some very good teachers out there with the very best motivations but I guess my point is how can we expect the students to achieve what their teachers can't/ haven't, namely proficiency in both languages?

In my own experiences learning languages other than my native tongue, I was fortunate enough to have teachers with proficiency in both English and the language being taught. I guess I'm naive as to how this can be achieved when there is no common language between teacher and student to start with, especially taken on a wider scale throughout schools.

[ratcatcher]

Are those ASEAN countries being taught Thai?

Why would they be? Thai is a language spoken in only one country AFAIK.

In Europe many Germans,French, Dutch, Scandinavians speak English very well. As animatic pointed out, English is the de facto language of world trade & international commerce.

If the Thais want to compete with the other ASEAN nations, they had better wake up and .

[Unkomoncents]

Thailand has both direct and indirect protectionist policies that restrict the entry of foreign professionals and general workers. This is not going to disappear. The assumption that there will be an influx of ASEAN professionals into Thailand is false. Wherever there is a will, there is a way to retain protectionist policies. New regulations and procedures can always be introduced to interfere with free trade. Worried about the entry of accountants? Insist on entrants passing professional or language proficiency exams. Worried about the entry of foreign doctors and nurses? Maintain language requirements.

An excellent example is North America. Under NAFTA, the USA has successfully used the rules to block the entry of competitors into its market. Even outside of NAFTA, in Canada the provinces have such idiotic regulations that the inter provincial trade barriers make foreign rules look reasonable. US banking regulations block a real national banking system (in respect to branch networks). I'm not taking swipes at the USA or Canada, just providing an example of how states, provinces and national governments can interfere if they so choose. The focus is on how Thailand will suffer. Have a look at Singapore and Vietnam. The Vietnamese will find bureacratic ways to block foreign entrants and Singapore, a country I respect greatly for its business enviroment, will impose competency and filing regulations that will discourage ASEAN entrants into its market.

The concerns expressed all assume that Thailand will open its market. Based upon the prevailing Thai mentality, I just cannot see that happening. Someone, somewhere in Bangkok is the master of the rule book and he or she is just raring to go with new regulations to interfere.

All true but there will still be some very motivated investors who will meet the requirements set by the Thai government from countries like Singapore, Malaysia and perhaps one or two other ASEAN countries. I don't doubt that foreigners will be prevented from playing on a truly fair playing field, but I suspect that there will be some ripples in the water with the AEC. Thailand has an enviable market for clever marketing campaigns designed to build up haute couture images for second and third rate products and services. If there is any economic opening, the most clever and connected will exploit Thailand and Thais for certain. Competence is not a point of pride in the Kingdom.

[bigbamboo]

Well I keep telling my uni students that they need to buck up their ideas when it comes to English otherwise they find themselves at the lower end of the ladder when it comes to competing against other would be job finders from ASEAN countries. Lets hope that salaries for teachers in general and especially teachers of English will be raised in accordance with the new found need for English.

You mean you haven't received your 300 baht a day yet either!

Personally I feel sorry for Thai English students. You cannot say it's all their fault they are substandard when it comes to studying languages, the teaching profession here seems to operate in a world of it's own with strange emphasis put on on subjects and activities which have precious little to do with academic advancement.

Edited May 30, 2012 by bigbamboo

[MaxLee]

In reality, as soon as they reach a certain age, most Thai students just don't wanna study anything, and just be among their peers, and not talk to any strangers.

How many hours do they spend on "school hours" do they spent on English per day? Maybe just 2??? And then what, back to angry birds, Facebook whatever online games, and the life moves on...

Edited May 30, 2012 by MaxLee

[barefoot1988]

language barrier? its more than that unfortunately

even if they speak queen's english i doubt it will even work anywhere with their kind of altitude and working ethnic

[baboon]

Now I do not want to be the turd in the punchbowl here, but I have a feeling that in five, ten, fifteen years from now, Thailand will still be Thailand, marching to it`s own beat in it`s own way regardless of ASEAN or anything else and still doing reasonably well for itself. It is just that kind of place.

[IsaanUSA]

Thailand has both direct and indirect protectionist policies that restrict the entry of foreign professionals and general workers. This is not going to disappear. The assumption that there will be an influx of ASEAN professionals into Thailand is false.

Sorry I chopped off the rest of your post, but I was under the impression that only seven different professions were allowed to migrate to other ASEAN countries after 2015: engineers, architects, doctors, accountants, nurses, dentists and surveyors. With those seven professions, I don't see a large influx / deflux of anything, so I agree with you.

Please correct me if I am wrong!

Edited May 30, 2012 by IsaanUSA

[ANTIRACIST]

Thailand has both direct and indirect protectionist policies that restrict the entry of foreign professionals and general workers. This is not going to disappear. The assumption that there will be an influx of ASEAN professionals into Thailand is false.

Sorry I chopped off the rest of your post, but I was under the impression that only seven different professions were allowed to migrate to other ASEAN countries after 2015: engineers, architects, doctors, accountants, nurses, dentists and surveyors. With those seven professions, I don't see a large influx / deflux of anything, so I agree with you.

Please correct me if I am wrong!

When you open borders,you can not say only seven different professionals can come in,opening borders means any citizen from one of this 10 countries can go to anywhere he or she likes,and all foreigners can also go to all this 10 countries once they have one VISA called ASEAN

[jshorts]

That's not surprising. These young people have been taught to be "afraid of making mistakes and afraid of the unknown ever since the day they were born... They were propaganda brainwashed that mistakes and "losing face or admitting fault and accountability" is a disgrace to the Nation of Thailand... And if anyone finds a fault, they're being shot dead silenced...

Corruption rules this face-worry-saving society which Attucks fear into the young people in Thailand.

Don't understand what "Attucks" means. Attracts?

[IsaanUSA]

Thailand has both direct and indirect protectionist policies that restrict the entry of foreign professionals and general workers. This is not going to disappear. The assumption that there will be an influx of ASEAN professionals into Thailand is false.

Sorry I chopped off the rest of your post, but I was under the impression that only seven different professions were allowed to migrate to other ASEAN countries after 2015: engineers, architects, doctors, accountants, nurses, dentists and surveyors. With those seven professions, I don't see a large influx / deflux of anything, so I agree with you.

Please correct me if I am wrong!

When you open borders,you can not say only seven different professionals can come in,opening borders means any citizen from one of this 10 countries can go to anywhere he or she likes,and all foreigners can also go to all this 10 countries once they have one VISA called ASEAN

This is news to me. I thought it was just a trade agreement. I didn't know they were opening borders or offering an ASEAN visa. Thanks for the information!

[bigbamboo]

In reality, as soon as they reach a certain age, most Thai students just don't wanna study anything, and just be among their peers, and not talk to any strangers.

How many hours do they spend on "school hours" do they spent on English per day? Maybe just 2??? And then what, back to angry birds, Facebook whatever online games, and the life moves on...

I think you mean teenagers in general!

[jshorts]

Dear Ferangled:- First many Farang teachers are working closely with Thai teachers who know the mechanics of the English language. When I took my TESOL in Thailand, we had people from different countries such as Japan, Korea, Thailand, and Viet Nam. The instructors asked us should we have to learn every language before we could teach Thai? I know extremely little Thai, but I teach English. All my lessons are in English. The Thai teachers support me as I support them, and we work together as a team. Some teachers have little knowledge of the mechanics of the English grammar that is true, but mainly they are there to help speaking. It's a hard job, but it's good as well. Some students are very good, and some are not. Yes there are drawbacks within the educational system, but there are in every country. This is not to do a Ph.D. in English but to be able to work functionality in a work setting. Relax it's happening but you don't see it, but it's happening there are some very bright Thai's out there.

I'm sorry, please don't take my rant personally, it wasn't intended that way. I'm quite sure there are some very good teachers out there with the very best motivations but I guess my point is how can we expect the students to achieve what their teachers can't/ haven't, namely proficiency in both languages?

In my own experiences learning languages other than my native tongue, I was fortunate enough to have teachers with proficiency in both English and the language being taught. I guess I'm naive as to how this can be achieved when there is no common language between teacher and student to start with, especially taken on a wider scale throughout schools.

Yes, there are some schools that teach foreign languages without a common teacher-student language.

[sirchai]

Expexct a flood of luuk krung from Europe

And some even might make it to Miss Thailand again....