Obviously because food was much harder to come by in past times and people had to work their tushes off to get it! (Hint: most people never got fat in the first place!) Once you're fat especially if you have genetic issues, especially if you start in childhood, most people are stuck with that for LIFE (even if as many do they lose and gain 50 times). Most fat children become fat adults. These are not all "weak" people. Have some bloody compassion. Also of course many of the foods easily available and cheap in modern times are not healthy foods. I am not discounting the impact of our obesogenic (1000 baht word!) environment. But some people's genetics (science says about 40 percent) prove to be especially punishing to some people and easier on others. The truth is the modern obesity is a very complicated phenom with NO EASY SOLUTIONS. There are many causative factors and each individual case is different. The tried and true, go home and exercise advice has proven extremely ineffective in the LONG RUN and lifetime cures this way are RARE. No, if you think it is ONLY about energy in vs. energy out you are living in the dark ages on this topic. I just can't handle the obnoxious SMUGNESS of so many people who don't have a clue about the real complexity of the obesity disease.

How about this...

Proper diet and exercise will keep someone from becoming obese, but...

If you are already badly overweight (more like 100kg over, not a mere 20 kg), proper diet and exercise may not be enough to get you back down to a more natural, healthy weight.

The tried and true, go home and exercise advice has proven extremely ineffective in the LONG RUN and lifetime cures this way are RARE.

This is less likely due to genetics and more likely due to people who allow themselves to become horribly obese don't have the will power or self control to stick to a proper diet and exercise in the first place.

The tried and true, go home and exercise advice has proven extremely ineffective in the LONG RUN and lifetime cures this way are RARE.

This is less likely due to genetics and more likely due to people who allow themselves to become horribly obese don't have the will power or self control to stick to a proper diet and exercise in the first place.

It is interesting to note more people have signed up for Food Stamps during the Obama administration than any other time in history.

I would think the ease of obtaining whatever type of food one desires without paying for it might have something to do with an improper diet.

I swam 80 lengths in the pool today. Look and feel great.....now where is that bloody beer bottle opener....?

The tried and true, go home and exercise advice has proven extremely ineffective in the LONG RUN and lifetime cures this way are RARE.

This is less likely due to genetics and more likely due to people who allow themselves to become horribly obese don't have the will power or self control to stick to a proper diet and exercise in the first place.

You really don't care what scientists say now, do you? You enjoy thinking all fat people are just lazy pigs. I'm sure some are. Enjoy your nasty delusions.

The tried and true, go home and exercise advice has proven extremely ineffective in the LONG RUN and lifetime cures this way are RARE.

This is less likely due to genetics and more likely due to people who allow themselves to become horribly obese don't have the will power or self control to stick to a proper diet and exercise in the first place.

You really don't care what scientists say now, do you? You enjoy thinking all fat people are just lazy pigs. I'm sure some are. Enjoy your nasty delusions.

I don't see here where anyone is talking about "lazy pigs" JT. What I do see is a group of posters debating the issues surrounding obesity and commenting on our own experiences as well.

I have looked at your evidence and I am not convinced I must say. The only things which ring true are that people can become too fat to exercise and that there is a true addiction to food.

Losing weight through surgery can cure the first and the second can be done through counselling and peer support.

I don't like quoting from the internet and saying that it is correct - I quote a writer's opinion as that - an opinion.

Here is one from today's Daily Telegraph that I broadly agree with.

A brief quote :

What I’d done was suggest that alcoholism and other compulsive problems are fundamentally self-destructive behaviour, not an incurable illness. But, in the eyes of true believers, that amounts to scribbling in green ink. On Thursday an article appeared in the Huffington Post suggesting – so predictably – that I was “in denial”. At least the author didn’t trot out the old AA joke “denial isn’t just a river in Egypt”, which gets a supportive laugh in meetings however often it’s repeated

And the article in toto :

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100162313/do-you-think-alcoholism-isnt-really-a-disease-careful-youll-be-branded-as-a-heretic/

The tried and true, go home and exercise advice has proven extremely ineffective in the LONG RUN and lifetime cures this way are RARE.

This is less likely due to genetics and more likely due to people who allow themselves to become horribly obese don't have the will power or self control to stick to a proper diet and exercise in the first place.

You really don't care what scientists say now, do you? You enjoy thinking all fat people are just lazy pigs. I'm sure some are. Enjoy your nasty delusions.

I don't see here where anyone is talking about "lazy pigs" JT. What I do see is a group of posters debating the issues surrounding obesity and commenting on our own experiences as well.

Many people here, myself included, have give personal stories. I'd be interested in hearing JT's story even though I can make a good guess based on his rabid attacks on people who are foolish enough to believe obesity is caused by eating too much and that weight can be controlled by proper diet and exercise.

Many people here, myself included, have give personal stories. I'd be interested in hearing JT's story even though I can make a good guess based on his rabid attacks on people who are foolish enough to believe obesity is caused by eating too much and that weight can be controlled by proper diet and exercise.

I suspect that Jing will never offer up a personal story. He's too busy dissing other people because their opinions aren't the same as his.

Maybe. Statistics are about large masses of people. Individual variance is very normal.

JT do you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe the trend towards externalizing ones faults has reached epidemic levels because it is now PC to be no fault and blame every failing on anything but personal choice; I am poor not because i dont get a job but because the white man keeps me down. i am fat because i was born that way, i am.....when does it stop. seriously please explain to me where were the people who suffered from bad genes in the 1800 or eaqrly 1900 when people were required to get on their feet and work if they wanted to eat? IMO The Liberal propaganda of blaming before accepting personal accountablilty is ruining the moral fiber of a free population. Life is the end result of personal choice.!

Thanks, Jingthing, for the links. Very interesting. The first one is largely about the difficulty of making a drug to 'cure' obesity; I never thought that would work anyway. The second one has more meat in it! (unfortunate metaphor!)

Once again I think we're tending to confuse two things, clinical obesity, and what I might call gross obesity. Nearly all the stories of so-called cures are related to clinical obesity.

Some people have suggested that the current epidemic of obesity is largely due to the greater availability of food plus the popularity of relatively valueless foods (junk foods). In some cases, the gross obesity is due to medical causes;

I can think of one grossly obese person I know who is a compulsive eater. She's a clever woman; she has a strong will in other respects, but she can't stop eating. This, I would say, is a disease.

Another ( a man this time) spent all his time cooking ever more enticing dishes for himself, and was content to die before he was forty. The last time I saw him, he weighed something like 400 lbs. That was a disease, in my opinion.

These, however, are unusual cases. Most fat people, I suspect, have let themselves get fatter and fatter until it is extremely hard, if not impossible, to do anything about it. That is lack of willpower, just letting things ride. This, not the fatness, is a disease of the 21st century.

Maybe. Statistics are about large masses of people. Individual variance is very normal.

JT do you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe the trend towards externalizing ones faults has reached epidemic levels because it is now PC to be no fault and blame every failing on anything but personal choice; I am poor not because i dont get a job but because the white man keeps me down. i am fat because i was born that way, i am.....when does it stop. seriously please explain to me where were the people who suffered from bad genes in the 1800 or eaqrly 1900 when people were required to get on their feet and work if they wanted to eat? IMO The Liberal propaganda of blaming before accepting personal accountablilty is ruining the moral fiber of a free population. Life is the end result of personal choice.!

here is a link to a study in America where they claim to be tracking 10,000 people who have achieved long term weight loss and kept the weight off and also the methods they did it by.

http://www.nwcr.ws/

The National Weight Control Registry (NWCR), established in 1994 by

Rena Wing, Ph.D.from Brown Medical School, and James O. Hill, Ph.D.from the University of Colorado, is the largest prospective investigation of long-term successful weight loss maintenance. Given the prevailing belief that few individuals succeed at long-term weight loss, the NWCR was developed to identify and investigate the characteristics of individuals who have succeeded at long-term weight loss. The NWCR is tracking over10,000 individuals who have lost significant amounts of weight and kept it off for long periods of time. Detailed questionnaires and annual follow-up surveys are used to examine the behavioral and psychological characteristics of weight maintainers, as well as the strategies they use to maintaining their weight losses.

Thanks, Jingthing, for the links. Very interesting. The first one is largely about the difficulty of making a drug to 'cure' obesity; I never thought that would work anyway. The second one has more meat in it! (unfortunate metaphor!)

Once again I think we're tending to confuse two things, clinical obesity, and what I might call gross obesity. Nearly all the stories of so-called cures are related to clinical obesity.

Some people have suggested that the current epidemic of obesity is largely due to the greater availability of food plus the popularity of relatively valueless foods (junk foods). In some cases, the gross obesity is due to medical causes;

I can think of one grossly obese person I know who is a compulsive eater. She's a clever woman; she has a strong will in other respects, but she can't stop eating. This, I would say, is a disease.

Another ( a man this time) spent all his time cooking ever more enticing dishes for himself, and was content to die before he was forty. The last time I saw him, he weighed something like 400 lbs. That was a disease, in my opinion.

These, however, are unusual cases. Most fat people, I suspect, have let themselves get fatter and fatter until it is extremely hard, if not impossible, to do anything about it. That is lack of willpower, just letting things ride. This, not the fatness, is a disease of the 21st century.

Good post, some good thoughts there.

I never said ALL obese people are obese for life. Just MOST. If y'all insist that is always a choice, enjoy yourselves. My interest in this topic is real effective cures for lifetime obesity that more than a TINY PERCENTAGE of people can actually benefit from, in real life. This is a tragic situation and very costly for both personal lives and societies. I look forward to an EFFECTIVE cure. Not platitudes about self control and will power, when anyone who is being honest knows the facts -- this approach has been a miserable failure!

I never said ALL obese people are obese for life. Just MOST. If y'all insist that is always a choice, enjoy yourselves. My interest in this topic is real effective cures for lifetime obesity that more than a TINY PERCENTAGE of people can actually benefit from, in real life. This is a tragic situation and very costly for both personal lives and societies. I look forward to an EFFECTIVE cure. Not platitudes about self control and will power, when anyone who is being honest knows the facts -- this approach has been a miserable failure!

90 lengths today JT. I feel even better than I did yesterday....and slimmer!

I'm so glad I'm in the 1% minority.

Hit the wrong button sorry...dp!

Not interested in your personal anecdotes. If all doctors and society have to offer obese people is:

Go home and diet and exercise

We have nothing else and don't care about getting anything else

You have no self control. You're weak. If you're fat, it's your fault. You're inferior and ugly. If you die early, sorry, you did it to yourself.

In 100 years the same terribly low rates of long term obesity cures will happen and there will be even MORE obese people.

Maybe that's good enough for you. Not for me. Also, I'm much more optimistic that effective medical treatments are on the way. Because for the masses, they are the only REALISTIC hope.

Not interested in your personal anecdotes. If all doctors and society have to offer obese people is:

Go home and diet and exercise

We have nothing else and don't care about getting anything else

You have no self control. You're weak. If you're fat, it's your fault. You're inferior and ugly. If you die early, sorry, you did it to yourself.

In 100 years the same terribly low rates of long term obesity cures will happen and there will be even MORE obese people.

Maybe that's good enough for you. Not for me. Also, I'm much more optimistic that effective medical treatments are on the way. Because for the masses, they are the only REALISTIC hope.

Thanks for your words of encouragement.

Not interested in your personal anecdotes. If all doctors and society have to offer obese people is:

Go home and diet and exercise

We have nothing else and don't care about getting anything else

You have no self control. You're weak. If you're fat, it's your fault. You're inferior and ugly. If you die early, sorry, you did it to yourself.

In 100 years the same terribly low rates of long term obesity cures will happen and there will be even MORE obese people.

Maybe that's good enough for you. Not for me. Also, I'm much more optimistic that effective medical treatments are on the way. Because for the masses, they are the only REALISTIC hope.

JT, your posting standard is usually of a high quality, but for some reason on this topic you are posting with emotion not reason.

Did you look at the link regarding the long term study of 10.000 fat people, who have lost weight, and kept it off? There was a variety of methods there when you read through the info.

A more than realistic hope is diet and exercise.

You don't even have to get out and swim 90 laps or run 10 kilometres, you just need to keep moving, add movement and basic exercise to your daily routine. Get out of a chair, walk about, lift something. Then you need to add less to your mouth. Sometimes it can take years to get the weight back down to safe healthy levels. It might have taken years to get there in the first place. It depends on the person

Education regarding correct diet could also help. This would help prevent people from getting overweight. Another realistic solution.

According to many reports the world will be facing a food crisis in the not too distant future, so perhaps this also will curb the obesity problem. Another realistic solution.

Media advertising of fatty foods could be curbed. Packaging could come with warning labels. This seems draconian, but, it is another realistic solution.

Medical. yes, a realistic solution.

My point is, there are many realistic solutions that can be enacted to control weight. Within each strand of a solution there would be scores of sub strands that could be tailored and followed to suit an individual.

In fact diet and exercise as JT said in his post is the best option currently available.

A pill to cure obesity? Is that truly realistic?

I don't think so....the other options are invasive and unpleasant...necessary sometimes but who would really want to wait until their options are so limited?

Agreed though...a disease for sure....I simply want to say that exercise is a wonderful thing....and you feel so much better for it!

In fact diet and exercise as JT said in his post is the best option currently available.

A pill to cure obesity? Is that truly realistic?

I don't think so....the other options are invasive and unpleasant...necessary sometimes but who would really want to wait until their options are so limited?

Agreed though...a disease for sure....I simply want to say that exercise is a wonderful thing....and you feel so much better for it!

There is no pill. Yet. But they're working on it. As I said before, I think a probably next step is a less invasive/risky surgical implant that "fools" and actually CHANGES the brain so that the fat person's brain responses turn into a thin person's brain responses. Stomach tying has been proven to do that. Change the body AND the brain. That is a revolutionary finding and opens up new cure possibilities for the future. However, so many do need it now.

No apology for being emotional about this topic. People beating down people suffering from a chronic disease MAKES ME ANGRY!

In fact diet and exercise as JT said in his post is the best option currently available.

A pill to cure obesity? Is that truly realistic?

I don't think so....the other options are invasive and unpleasant...necessary sometimes but who would really want to wait until their options are so limited?

Agreed though...a disease for sure....I simply want to say that exercise is a wonderful thing....and you feel so much better for it!

There is no pill. Yet. But they're working on it. As I said before, I think a probably next step is a less invasive/risky surgical implant that "fools" and actually CHANGES the brain so that the fat person's brain responses turn into a thin person's brain responses. Stomach tying has been proven to do that. Change the body AND the brain. That is a revolutionary finding and opens up new cure possibilities for the future. However, so many do need it now.

No apology for being emotional about this topic. People beating down people suffering from a chronic disease MAKES ME ANGRY!

Good, glad you feel better for getting that off your chest, nice use of CAPS btw.

Clinical obesity is not a disease, it isn't viral and it isn't bacterial, it is not caused by anything external, it is an internal problem, you cannot be vaccinated against it and there will be no miracle pill popping cure.

But, that isn't how this thread started is it, it started by asking if it is still acceptable to call fat people fat or should they just be referred to as overweight.

There is a huge difference between carrying a few extra pounds and being unable to move, what would you like, cuddly, chunky, larger than life.

Which fork in the road are you destined for JT? having to get heavy lifting gear to get you out of the bath, or just being a little bit wider than average.

If it is the second one, at least have the common decency of being jolly.

Not platitudes about self control and will power, when anyone who is being honest knows the facts -- this approach has been a miserable failure!

I'm probably stating the obvious here but, self control and will power do not work for people without self control or will power.

I'm much more optimistic that effective medical treatments are on the way.

I still think one of the most realistic steps in the battle against obesity is to make smaller spoons and shorter forks.

I'm much more optimistic that effective medical treatments are on the way.

I still think one of the most realistic steps in the battle against obesity is to make smaller spoons and shorter forks.

Nail firmly on the head.

Not platitudes about self control and will power, when anyone who is being honest knows the facts -- this approach has been a miserable failure!

I'm probably stating the obvious here but, self control and will power do not work for people without self control or will power.

But it's not that simple. Obesity is a disease and the causes and cures are highly COMPLEX. It may be comforting to believe it is not, but the science is against you.

The prevalence of obesity in the United States has more than doubled in the past half century, adding a staggering burden to our current health care system. It is commonly assumed that overweight and obesity ensue as a consequence of deficient will power or disproportionate consumption. Recent years have shed light on the complicated science of obesity, enlightening researchers to its complexities. With a new appreciation for obesity as a disease and global well-being in mind, we have an enormous opportunity before us: we can prevent obesity by pushing for change in public policy; commit to educating our children on healthy eating, the benefits of physical activity and illness-prevention habits; and incorporate meaningful tools for weight loss into our prescription for improving patients’ health.

http://obesity.proco...ource_Guide.pdf

If you're satisfied being a true believer in "common assumptions" treating obesity in a ignorant SIMPLE MINDED knee jerk manner as a moral failing, join the crowd. Or you can look to science which shows these common assumptions don't actually reflect the full TRUTH of the situation.

The trouble is that the medical toolbox for more effective cures (that the masses do succeed at, not a small percentage of the sufferers) for this disease for life without invasive surgery is lacking in our times. But that doesn't mean it will be this grim in the future.

Not platitudes about self control and will power, when anyone who is being honest knows the facts -- this approach has been a miserable failure!

I'm probably stating the obvious here but, self control and will power do not work for people without self control or will power.

But it's not that simple. Obesity is a disease and the causes and cures are highly COMPLEX. It may be comforting to believe it is not, but the science is against you.

The prevalence of obesity in the United States has more than doubled in the past half century, adding a staggering burden to our current health care system. It is commonly assumed that overweight and obesity ensue as a consequence of deficient will power or disproportionate consumption. Recent years have shed light on the complicated science of obesity, enlightening researchers to its complexities. With a new appreciation for obesity as a disease and global well-being in mind, we have an enormous opportunity before us: we can prevent obesity by pushing for change in public policy; commit to educating our children on healthy eating, the benefits of physical activity and illness-prevention habits; and incorporate meaningful tools for weight loss into our prescription for improving patients’ health.

http://obesity.proco...ource_Guide.pdf

If you're satisfied being a true believer in "common assumptions" treating obesity in a ignorant SIMPLE MINDED knee jerk manner as a moral failing, join the crowd. Or you can look to science which shows these common assumptions don't actually reflect the full TRUTH of the situation.

The trouble is that the medical toolbox for more effective cures (that the masses do succeed at, not a small percentage of the sufferers) for this disease for life without invasive surgery is lacking in our times. But that doesn't mean it will be this grim in the future.

If you're a fat bastard it's because you eat too much...

If you're a fat bastard it's because you eat too much...

If you actually BELIEVE it is all that simple rather than just trying to be provocative, I truly feel sorry for you.

If you're a fat bastard it's because you eat too much...

If you actually BELIEVE it is all that simple rather than just trying to be provocative, I truly feel sorry for you.

You can feel as sorry as you like. I've BEEN a fat bastard. I no longer am because I've stopped eating too much. I feel sorry for you because you seem to go through life blaming anyone else apart from yourself for your own failings.

If you're a fat bastard it's because you eat too much...

If you actually BELIEVE it is all that simple rather than just trying to be provocative, I truly feel sorry for you.

Oh, and you aren't trying to be provocative? Shouting down and insulting others for daring to say that obese people get that way from eating too much? If you were a newbie to this forum you would have been booted as a troll pages ago.