Tiger's Death Accidental: Temple Vet

[maidu]

- double post -

Edited August 15, 2012 by maidu

[pedro01]

They get beaten, sprayed in ther faces with ther own urine and live between bars.

sounds like a few expats I know.

[jerrysteve]

Any who has ever owned a dog, myself included, and has secured the lease to a pole has obviously seen their pet dog wrap itself

around that pole close enough as well as tight enough to choke it.

The owner of that dog invariably has to unwind the leash everytime almost without

exception.

It is entirely possible for that Tiger to have choked itself do death from the chain on the tire wrapped around its neck (tyer for the Brits).

[cowslip]

Let them live as they were meant to live, free and at the mercy of nature.

...and at the mercy of nature and poachers.

Just wishful thinking on my part.

Understandable. In northernmost Thailand, there haven't been wild tigers for decades. Natural habitat is rare here, and it's better here than other parts of Thailand. The grim reality: there are no tracts of wild habitat wild enough or safe enough for large beasts, tigers or elephants. It's a failure of Thais and SE Asians to devote enough appreciation to 'wildness.'

It may not be too late for Thai politicians to start doing the right thing: to designate large tracts for national parks, instead of for Shinawatre (and other rich Thai-Chinese) housing estates.

Even with a well run protected national parks, poachers will still encroach, because the lure of Chinese money for exotic animal parts is so lucrative.

a recent report actually pointed out that there is potentially enough wild country for 2000 tigers in Thailand.

the problem is poaching of Chinese medicine parts and the killing of their prey by man.

there are estimated to be within 1 to 3 hundred Tigers in the Thailand region - this includes the North of the country, borders with Laos and Burma. Some new animals were discovered in a more Eastern location last year.

Edited August 15, 2012 by cowslip

[SuneeTH]

I am sure, if you check the dead tiger, its penis is already missing.

In some Chinese soup I suppose.

[cowslip]

I am sure, if you check the dead tiger, its penis is already missing.

In some Chinese soup I suppose.

Tiger farms usually have a winery nearby - this is so the animals parts can be preserved for human consumption in liquor....mainly shipped to China.

THe tigresses are used as "baby factories" and have way too many litters every year....and cannot suckle them all.

To speed things up the newborn cubs are then suckled by pigs or dogs.....this has the added bonus of being an attraction to the public who are mislead into believing this is some kind of caring for orphaned animals, when it is in fact a part of a factory process to produce more Tigers.....for parts etc.

Edited August 15, 2012 by cowslip

[stefb1964]

I only know the temple from the internet and it will be very unlikely I'll ever put a foot at their property. To me people have a made sick making attraction of the tigers. It counts indeed for all those western circuses travelling around using wild animals to make money.

I can not agree with the way those tigers are held and would hope some governmental agency has the power to do something against this. The animals might be much better off at a big zoo's instead of being chained. The reason why there isn't any reaction of governmental agencies might be as mysterious as Thai culture is.

Do they allow this to go on because to their belief that as long tourists are spending money, it's all for the benefit of the region ?

There must be a better way.

[theblether]

We're on our way to Plantation Earth......it won't be long until every waterway and every inch of land will be under full human control.

Tigers breed easily and most sub species will survive, but their only choices will be in captivity of on wildlife reserves. The days of the Wild Tiger will end this century......and it's unavoidable.

[sunshine51]

We're on our way to Plantation Earth......it won't be long until every waterway and every inch of land will be under full human control.

Tigers breed easily and most sub species will survive, but their only choices will be in captivity of on wildlife reserves. The days of the Wild Tiger will end this century......and it's unavoidable.

Well said Mr Blether...well said.

I've photographed wild tigers in India's Ranthamboor National Forest years ago for a certain

"journal" and learned much about their behaviour. They love water but don't wanna live in

it. They're very curious as most all felines are. They love to "play". They'll enter a photographers

"hide" just to have a sniff and scare the photographer outa his wits and then be off as if

"just checking". They've been hunted to near extinction where they naturally reside mainly

because of CHINESE beliefs that are thousands of years old hence not easily changed and

lastly...but rather important....tigers can cohabit with man as long as the tiger has enough

food supply and forest to roam in. Man is the distractor in this as it is man who breeds faster

than rabbits and needs land for mans food...so the bad side of tiger-human cohabitation

usually happens whereas the tiger loses every time.

I find it very odd...dam_n near unbelievable...that a year old tiger has somehow managed

to get a chain wrapped around it's neck while "swinging" on the tire attached to it.

Something's kinda stinky in the temple on that explanation to me....

[cowslip]

I only know the temple from the internet and it will be very unlikely I'll ever put a foot at their property. To me people have a made sick making attraction of the tigers. It counts indeed for all those western circuses travelling around using wild animals to make money.

I can not agree with the way those tigers are held and would hope some governmental agency has the power to do something against this. The animals might be much better off at a big zoo's instead of being chained. The reason why there isn't any reaction of governmental agencies might be as mysterious as Thai culture is.

Do they allow this to go on because to their belief that as long tourists are spending money, it's all for the benefit of the region ?

There must be a better way.

"and would hope some governmental agency has the power to do something against this. " - they did the temple was officially closed down several years ago. .....but what do you do with the tigers??? Well the monks offered to look after them.......OK!?!?!

Wildlife agencies and others have offered to go in and help the Temple and install or instil the right kind of practices, but the temple has repeatedly refused any help or advise.

Unfortunately anything to do with wildlife, animals or conservation has virtually no regulation in Thailand and even less will to enforce it.

corruption and graft are the rulers and it is they who determine what happens.

Those who simple roll over and sigh, saying that "extinction" in the wild is inevitable are missing the pint.

We are not isolated fro the fate of Tigers or any other creature -they do not exist in isolation either...they are not simply photo opportunities or "things of beauty" - they are a functioning part of an ecosystem that includes us. Removing key elements such as rainforest and other animals' habitat is pulling the rug from under our own feet and increasing the dangers of climate change and subsequent food shortages etc etc.....so the continued existence of such animals in the wild should be an indicator to all of us that there are still some vestiges of the planet that are working correctly.

PS - it was mentioned above that Tigers love water - which they do. THey can live in a wide range of environments as well (v. Siberian Tiger). However in S.E. asia they like streams etc - the kind of forest that has water running through it. Unfortunately a lot of this kind of forest is being threatened be Dam projects which smother this sort of environment removing both prey and predator form the areas.

Edited August 16, 2012 by cowslip

[maidu]

Understandable. In northernmost Thailand, there haven't been wild tigers for decades. Natural habitat is rare here, and it's better here than other parts of Thailand. The grim reality: there are no tracts of wild habitat wild enough or safe enough for large beasts, tigers or elephants. It's a failure of Thais and SE Asians to devote enough appreciation to 'wildness.'

It may not be too late for Thai politicians to start doing the right thing: to designate large tracts for national parks, instead of for Shinawatre (and other rich Thai-Chinese) housing estates.

Even with a well run protected national parks, poachers will still encroach, because the lure of Chinese money for exotic animal parts is so lucrative.

a recent report actually pointed out that there is potentially enough wild country for 2000 tigers in Thailand.

the problem is poaching of Chinese medicine parts and the killing of their prey by man.

there are estimated to be within 1 to 3 hundred Tigers in the Thailand region - this includes the North of the country, borders with Laos and Burma. Some new animals were discovered in a more Eastern location last year.

I question the tally of one to three hundred tigers in the wild, in Thailand. My feeling is the number is closer to dozens, if that. I would rejoice if there were enough habitat for 2,000 wild tigers in Thailand, but I have to wax pessimistic on that also. True wilderness has long been eradicated from Thailand. Bits of 'pseudo wild' may exist, meaning forests criss-crossed by resource-hungry humans, who will take everything that flies, slithers, crawls, or lopes and kill it or send it to some collector for a payment.

It's not enough if even 90% of the populace has a modicum of consciousness about preserving natural habitat (the actual % is probably closer to 2% in Asia). Even if there are just a very few people who continue to destroy wildness and wild animals, it won't be long before Thailand is a checkerboard of farms, cities, sub-divisions and weed choked plots of walled/fenced land (which 95% of it is already).

[cowslip]

Understandable. In northernmost Thailand, there haven't been wild tigers for decades. Natural habitat is rare here, and it's better here than other parts of Thailand. The grim reality: there are no tracts of wild habitat wild enough or safe enough for large beasts, tigers or elephants. It's a failure of Thais and SE Asians to devote enough appreciation to 'wildness.'

It may not be too late for Thai politicians to start doing the right thing: to designate large tracts for national parks, instead of for Shinawatre (and other rich Thai-Chinese) housing estates.

Even with a well run protected national parks, poachers will still encroach, because the lure of Chinese money for exotic animal parts is so lucrative.

a recent report actually pointed out that there is potentially enough wild country for 2000 tigers in Thailand.

the problem is poaching of Chinese medicine parts and the killing of their prey by man.

there are estimated to be within 1 to 3 hundred Tigers in the Thailand region - this includes the North of the country, borders with Laos and Burma. Some new animals were discovered in a more Eastern location last year.

I question the tally of one to three hundred tigers in the wild, in Thailand. My feeling is the number is closer to dozens, if that. I would rejoice if there were enough habitat for 2,000 wild tigers in Thailand, but I have to wax pessimistic on that also. True wilderness has long been eradicated from Thailand. Bits of 'pseudo wild' may exist, meaning forests criss-crossed by resource-hungry humans, who will take everything that flies, slithers, crawls, or lopes and kill it or send it to some collector for a payment.

It's not enough if even 90% of the populace has a modicum of consciousness about preserving natural habitat (the actual % is probably closer to 2% in Asia). Even if there are just a very few people who continue to destroy wildness and wild animals, it won't be long before Thailand is a checkerboard of farms, cities, sub-divisions and weed choked plots of walled/fenced land (which 95% of it is already).

What are you basing your estimates on? It sounds as if you are misinformed - do a bit of reading there are quite a few surveys and reports - very few by Thailand itself.

Tigers can live in a broad range of environments and the report that suggests there is room for 2000 is I believe by American scientists.

As I said before - Tigers don't respect national borders so the figures are to do more with regions than countries.

Regardless of what the numbers actually are the problem that aries out of low numbers is the restricted gene pool which in the end prevents any population recovering. THis is why it is so important that captive animals are genetically recorded and registered, otherwise they are of no use for anything......except chopping up for Chinese quack medicines.

Edited August 17, 2012 by cowslip

[cowslip]

Its all ready proven that the Tigers in the Temple in Kanchanburi are abused a lot. They get beaten, sprayed in ther faces with ther own urine and live between bars. Only when people like us pay money they get out. It's also a lie that they say they are saved out of the hands of people who try to sell them or kill them for medicine or amulettes or whatever.

It's all proven by Care for the Wild International (CWI).

And it took them 2 years to spy things out so no guessing here.

It's my belief that CWI aren't a legitimate animal charity.. They might hand over some of the money the collect to legitimate charities, but don't do any real work.

...and what do you base that opinion on?

mant other wildlife organisations do not share this view.....

"Since the report by Care for the Wild International, a coalition of 39 prominent conservation groups, including the Humane Society International, the Association of Zoos and Aquariums, the World Society for the Protection of Animals and the World Wide Fund for Nature, have penned a letter to the Director General of National Parks in Thailand under the name 'The International Tiger Coalition'.^[4] This letter urges the Director General to take action against the Tiger Temple over its import and export of 12 tigers with Laos, its lack of connection with accredited conservation breeding programmes, and to genetically test the tigers at the Tiger Temple in order to determine their pedigree and value to tiger conservation programmes. It concludes that the 'Temple does not have the facilities, the skills, the relationships with accredited zoos, or even the desire to manage its tigers in an appropriate fashion. Instead, it is motivated both in display of the tigers to tourists and in its illegal trading of tigers purely by profit.'" - wikipedia.

Edited September 7, 2012 by cowslip

[Beetlejuice]

Shut these institutions of suffering and cruelty down.

Tigers are big cats of the forests and jungles. They are not domestic animals and not meant to live in the grounds of temples for profit and the entertainments of stupid tourists.

These animals do not enjoy and will not thrive well in captivity.

[Buchholz]

Those who run the Tiger Temple are not trained in big cat husbandry - was the "chain" an appropriate toy for the tiger, was it's behaviour affected by the nature of it's captivity. The cages have already been criticised.

I also remember a vet representing the place saying he had little or no experience of big cats.

So was it a "freak" accident or the result of further incompetence by the temple?

No tiger from the temple could ever be released into the wild.

The National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation Department is concerned about the huge increase in tigers at the Tiger Temple and yesterday instructed them to lower them.

The Department was responding to complaint that the temple was exploiting the tigers. Upon inspection, while the Department Chief admitting that the living conditions for the tigers were better than at some government zoos, he was concerned about their population.

In 2001, the Department found 7 tigers illegally being kept at the temple. Nevertheless, the temple was allowed to keep them and now there population has mushroomed to 99 tigers.

The Abbot of the temple disagrees with the reducing the tiger population.

The temple charges 300 baht entrance fee for Thais and 600 baht for foreigners and this amounts to 84 million baht a year to the temple.

.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Buchholz

[cowslip]

unfortunately shutting down is not an option - they have to be taken over by competent management and then be looked after in a responsible manner