Maid'S Interesting Comment -- Something To Think About?

[noise]

Because we have had our maid Noi for 5 years and she is as happy working for us as we are to have her, neighbors asked us to ask her if she could find a maid for them. They were hoping for someone who had the same work ethic and someone who would do their best because they knew it would reflect back on Noi's reputation.

Noi was hesitant to do so and asked us if the neighbors really talked to the maids they have had before.

When we asked her what she meant, she told us that very, very few people tell their maids when they are not happy with something. They expect the maid intuitively to do everything the way the employer wants it. And then when they don't, they just fire them after a while with no explanation. This apparently, according to Noi, happens over and over and is a major complaint throughout the Chiangmai "maid network".

Too many employers do not take the time to teach their maids how to do things the particular way the employers want it. The maid may put the laundry in the washing machine first and then add detergent. The homeowner may want the reverse, but doesn't say anything. A 157 cm maid may not think to dust on top of a 198 cm cabinet because she can not see the dust on the top. The employer may check but not say anything. Who is at fault?

Too many employers just keep their dissatisfaction to themselves until one day they fire the maid.

Because we had no idea how they treated maids, whether they really talked to them or not, Noi did not recommend anyone.

[Lizard2010]

Very interesting, it is called communication both ways.

A well said statement.

[rodentwarrior]

I suspect this is more about proletariat people coming to Thailand, who have absolutely no experience of managing domestic help.

A maid should be treated as an extended member of the family, who needs just as much leadership as one's children.

[LucidLucifer]

Comes down, I expect, to the whole face issue again.

I think Noi did the right thing by not recommending someone.

[tolstoy]

though I agree with the maid in the OP. I do have to admit that if a maid or cleaner comes in and takes a bucket of dirty water and puts a mop and then mops the floor with dirty water without any soap and just spreads it around. I won't complain,I will just let him/her go.

There are things that a maid needs to be told. Certain particular ways of doing things but not using soap shouldn't be one of them.

The thing that drives me nuts, is when things are written down in Thai, explained 2-3 times and the maid still does things her own way.

It is true that many expats here do not treat their workers with the due respect that they deserve but the workers need to own up to their own incopetance sometimes too.

Personally, I won't hire someone under 40. I prefer my workers to be about 50-70 they work harder, are less arrogant and always willing to do what needs to be done without being greedy. Not to mention that they usually do a much better job.

Our gardener had to retire 3 years ago, he was 74. It took us 2 years to find a reasonable replacement. We went through 4-5 different crews before we found one that we were satisified with. We do pay 100 baht more than we did but we get what we want.

I guess overall what I am saying is that it is a two way street. Employers need to be specific on their desires and requirements but workers need to step up and be a little pro-active also.

[NancyL]

I don't have to tell the somtam lady how to make somtam. I have a reasonable expectation that she is capable of making somtam when she presents herself as a somtam vendor. If someone claims they have experience as a maid and have worked for foreigners before, then I think it's reasonable to expect them to know basic maid skills like dusting the top of cabinets and putting soap into the mop water. You shouldn't have to train someone who claims they are experienced in the same way that you would train your children to do basic housework.

[YoungBrit]

Very interesting topic. Yes, I believe is certainly a problem and yes I believe it will come down to the "losing face" aspect.

One point I would like to add though is that me and my gf have been trying to find a cleaner that comes once a week and lately she has been trying to find one for her business. This has so far been very unsuccessful. She has given extensive instructions and in some cases teaching on the maid's first visit on what she wants and how she wants it done. I believe this is the reason that we have not had someone come back more than 3 times and in most cases just once.

None have been "fired" by us. We have given many an oppotunity and my gf has told them what she wants and if they were doing something wrong. They still found a reason to leave or not come back.

[YoungBrit]

I don't have to tell the somtam lady how to make somtam. I have a reasonable expectation that she is capable of making somtam when she presents herself as a somtam vendor. If someone claims they have experience as a maid and have worked for foreigners before, then I think it's reasonable to expect them to know basic maid skills like dusting the top of cabinets and putting soap into the mop water. You shouldn't have to train someone who claims they are experienced in the same way that you would train your children to do basic housework.

Basic skills I totally agree with you.

But certain people have specific things they like done I guess. These should be told/ taught rather than thinking the maid should somehow "intuitively to do everything the way the employer wants it" and simply sacking them without reason when they don't.

Young Brit

[mrclough]

The hardest part is finding someone reliable.

If someone accepts a job offer, be it one or more days a week, the least they could do is turn up.

Every maid / cleaner I've had I've fired as they have been unreliable and not even had the decency to bother to inform me if they are not coming to work.

I've even been told I'm wrong to expect a worker to come to work when they work for me by ex pats in the past.

I'm sure that even in Thai businesses and industry it is standard that if you have a job you're expected to come to work lol

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I suspect this is more about proletariat people coming to Thailand, who have absolutely no experience of managing domestic help.

A maid should be treated as an extended member of the family, who needs just as much leadership as one's children.

Well, yes on the second part, a lot of communication is necessary. But a member of an extended family.. no. They're an employee. And indeed employees need leadership, respect, training, consistency in how they're tasked, etc.

[rodentwarrior]

I suspect this is more about proletariat people coming to Thailand, who have absolutely no experience of managing domestic help.

A maid should be treated as an extended member of the family, who needs just as much leadership as one's children.

Well, yes on the second part, a lot of communication is necessary. But a member of an extended family.. no. They're an employee. And indeed employees need leadership, respect, training, consistency in how they're tasked, etc.

So children don't need respect, training, consistency in how they are tasked, etc? I treat my employees in the same way that I treat my family and friends. The only difference is that I pay them. You should try it!

[alfieconn]

The hardest part is finding someone reliable.

If someone accepts a job offer, be it one or more days a week, the least they could do is turn up.

Every maid / cleaner I've had I've fired as they have been unreliable and not even had the decency to bother to inform me if they are not coming to work.

I've even been told I'm wrong to expect a worker to come to work when they work for me by ex pats in the past.

I'm sure that even in Thai businesses and industry it is standard that if you have a job you're expected to come to work lol

My maid who is totally useless and can't get a thing right is the complete opposite, everyday she can't get a thing right and everyday i tell her not to come back tomorrow but she's still there every morning, any ideas on what i should do ?

[samtam]

I suspect this is more about proletariat people coming to Thailand, who have absolutely no experience of managing domestic help.

A maid should be treated as an extended member of the family, who needs just as much leadership as one's children.

Well, yes on the second part, a lot of communication is necessary. But a member of an extended family.. no. They're an employee. And indeed employees need leadership, respect, training, consistency in how they're tasked, etc.

Agree. Unfortunately it is very difficult to find a maid who has knowledge of basic housekeeping and all the aspects you would expect of a good employee. If they do have those, it is important to teach them the personal requirements of how you want the job to be carried out. If they can't incorporate those requirements after a reasonable time, then they are not capable of learning, or are unwilling to do so, and should be let go.

I am lucky to be blessed with one of the best maids I have ever employed. How excellent she is was brought home to me very vividly when she had to be absent for 2 months to look after her ailing father. For the first month we managed on our own, and the second we employed our neighbour's. I think the former experience was preferable to the latter. I showed the temp how I liked the beds made many times. She just couldn't get it. Happily my saint returned after 2 months, and my life was able to resume its normal pace.

Whilst I like my maid on a personal basis, and I dare say she might like us, I treat her with respect and as an employee. To treat her as a member of my family is asking for trouble. You wouldn't treat an employee in an office environment as a member of the family, so the same applies in this workplace situation. I've been lucky enough to have staff all my life, (growing up in Asia), and the golden rule is as I have expressed it, with the relationship clearly defined. The employee wants that definition too.

[tolstoy]

Family and children especially need a lot more than that rodent. They need encouragement, love, support and constant supervision.

I wouldn't bother hiring someone if I needed to spend as much energy on them as I would for a child or family member.

Yes, maids and servants can become like second family after they have been with you for a while but they don't start off that way.

[YoungBrit]

The hardest part is finding someone reliable.

If someone accepts a job offer, be it one or more days a week, the least they could do is turn up.

Every maid / cleaner I've had I've fired as they have been unreliable and not even had the decency to bother to inform me if they are not coming to work.

I've even been told I'm wrong to expect a worker to come to work when they work for me by ex pats in the past.

I'm sure that even in Thai businesses and industry it is standard that if you have a job you're expected to come to work lol

My maid who is totally useless and can't get a thing right is the complete opposite, everyday she can't get a thing right and everyday i tell her not to come back tomorrow but she's still there every morning, any ideas on what i should do ?

Tell her in Thai Alfie.....

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I suspect this is more about proletariat people coming to Thailand, who have absolutely no experience of managing domestic help.

A maid should be treated as an extended member of the family, who needs just as much leadership as one's children.

Well, yes on the second part, a lot of communication is necessary. But a member of an extended family.. no. They're an employee. And indeed employees need leadership, respect, training, consistency in how they're tasked, etc.

So children don't need respect, training, consistency in how they are tasked, etc? I treat my employees in the same way that I treat my family and friends. The only difference is that I pay them. You should try it!

Oh god.. Logic reversal alert. Let's grab a reversal out of thin air. Cows eat grass and are mammals and therefore all mammals eat grass. So yes, I don't pay my kids, who are forced to stay around, so they're completely the same as slaves. As are my cat and my Koy fish. Fun game.

Maids are employees. You can fire a maid, you wouldn't fire a family member almost no matter what. And employees may quit themselves when other opportunities or circumstances come along. Some professional distance is a good thing; you're not sharing the dinner table with the maid after all.

[phl]

very interesting read.

I tell my maid to clean the toilet so the "$hit" does not show and yet she/he keeps failing

I tell my maids to change towels daily and yet its not done

I tell my maids to wipe dust off daily and thats not done

i ask them to mop under the bed and that is also a difficulty

Pretty much anything i ask is a difficulty, funny though that the maid should be told or shown how or what to do.

It's like asking someone to teach butcher how to cut meat

[YoungBrit]

I think a big problem is that these "maids" will say they have experience and/or know how to clean etc but in reality when they turn up for work they don't have a clue.

[uptheos]

I would imagine 99.9% of farang's never had a maid in their own country.

I wonder why life is so stressful and difficult in Chiang Mai, that they have to have one here?

I my opinion, it's usually the couch princess that wants demands one.

[ARISTIDE]

My priority for keeping a maid is honesty or a bit of royalty. I don't expect quality work from a newly hired maid or house keeper right away. Particularly if they feel it's not their house they are cleaning.

In fact they don't have to be a good cleaner or good at any house work at all as long as they don't steal stuff and I can trust my house to them when I'm a way.

[DGS1244]

Many farangs have never had a maid before and many maids have never worked before as one especially if they are 'hill tribe'. try communicating and they seem eager to learn, if they are never shown what they do than how can you expect them to know. Living up a mountain is a lot different to town houes living!

[BuddhistVirus]

I don't have to tell the somtam lady how to make somtam. I have a reasonable expectation that she is capable of making somtam when she presents herself as a somtam vendor. If someone claims they have experience as a maid and have worked for foreigners before, then I think it's reasonable to expect them to know basic maid skills like dusting the top of cabinets and putting soap into the mop water. You shouldn't have to train someone who claims they are experienced in the same way that you would train your children to do basic housework.

[ChiangMai2]

My priority for keeping a maid is honesty or a bit of royalty. I don't expect quality work from a newly hired maid or house keeper right away. Particularly if they feel it's not their house they are cleaning.

In fact they don't have to be a good cleaner or good at any house work at all as long as they don't steal stuff and I can trust my house to them when I'm a way.

Yes, treat them like royalty and they are bound to stay

[Beetlejuice]

Having a maid is a form of extravagance and are probably hired by those who have been pampered all they’re lives, have had most things done for them by pussy parents and never had to rough it in the real world.

To some it`s a way of showing off, somewhat like those I have known that keep a large expensive car sitting on they’re drive just for appearances sake.

Those that do hire maids or live-in housekeepers should expect to take them into the fold of the family and not consider them as disposable household appliances, which is too often the case.

The problem is that some of the families that hire maids and housekeepers expect the maids to become their servants, completely subservient with a yes massa approach towards their masters for as minimum a wage as they can get away with paying.

Therefore, it doesn’t surprise me that in this day and age it has become so difficult to hire domestic maids and housekeepers.

[alfieconn]

The hardest part is finding someone reliable.

If someone accepts a job offer, be it one or more days a week, the least they could do is turn up.

Every maid / cleaner I've had I've fired as they have been unreliable and not even had the decency to bother to inform me if they are not coming to work.

I've even been told I'm wrong to expect a worker to come to work when they work for me by ex pats in the past.

I'm sure that even in Thai businesses and industry it is standard that if you have a job you're expected to come to work lol

My maid who is totally useless and can't get a thing right is the complete opposite, everyday she can't get a thing right and everyday i tell her not to come back tomorrow but she's still there every morning, any ideas on what i should do ?

Tell her in Thai Alfie.....

No No YB, the wife fully understands English

[malofa]

I suspect this is more about proletariat people coming to Thailand, who have absolutely no experience of managing domestic help.

A maid should be treated as an extended member of the family, who needs just as much leadership as one's children.

Well, yes on the second part, a lot of communication is necessary. But a member of an extended family.. no. They're an employee. And indeed employees need leadership, respect, training, consistency in how they're tasked, etc.

So children don't need respect, training, consistency in how they are tasked, etc? I treat my employees in the same way that I treat my family and friends. The only difference is that I pay them. You should try it!

We do the same with our Thai maid!

Last month we could celebrate her 1 year of good work.

Sometimes we take her, and her friend, with us to some restaurant.

We're not afraid of letting her babysit or watch the house for some days........we just trust her.

Yes.....she's part of the family

[YoungBrit]

The hardest part is finding someone reliable.

If someone accepts a job offer, be it one or more days a week, the least they could do is turn up.

Every maid / cleaner I've had I've fired as they have been unreliable and not even had the decency to bother to inform me if they are not coming to work.

I've even been told I'm wrong to expect a worker to come to work when they work for me by ex pats in the past.

I'm sure that even in Thai businesses and industry it is standard that if you have a job you're expected to come to work lol

My maid who is totally useless and can't get a thing right is the complete opposite, everyday she can't get a thing right and everyday i tell her not to come back tomorrow but she's still there every morning, any ideas on what i should do ?

Tell her in Thai Alfie.....

No No YB, the wife fully understands English

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I would imagine 99.9% of farang's never had a maid in their own country.

Indeed I didn't. And I can't tell you how great it is to be able to afford one here. As a kid my mother used to yell at me to go clean up my mess "or are you waiting for little elves to do it for you?!!!". Well, those elves just became a reality.

> I wonder why life is so stressful and difficult in Chiang Mai, that they have to have one here?

> I my opinion, it's usually the couch princess that wants demands one.

I wouldn't need a maid if I lived in a one room apartment or condo, by myself. But with a family and kids, I don't really know how my wife would have time for her job (and the kids) otherwise. It makes no sense at all to let me and the Mrs slave over cleaning the house, cutting the grass, doing laundry and washing the car and so on when you can have all of this done for you, freeing you up to make enough money for her salary, and more.

In my case the Mrs parents' household always had maids so I figure she's the one with experience and will leave the maid issues to her. (In fact that's a reasonable approach in most cases; the man of the household shouldn't have to deal with maid issues; it's not you who's going to clean something properly if/when a maid fails to do so.) My wife will often check with me before deciding how much of a New Year or Songkran bonus to pay out.

Though there are also cases that I feel somewhat stronger about; when a maid leaves who has been doing a stellar job then I think it's good to give them a letter of recommendation (in Thai and English) that will attest to her honesty, efficiency, skill and work attitude. I think that's both a nice thing to do, and may help her with future opportunities.

Having a maid is a form of extravagance and are probably hired by those who have been pampered all they’re lives, have had most things done for them by pussy parents and never had to rough it in the real world.

Well, no. Maybe those who have worked hard all their lives have now earned the privilege of not having to clean their own underwear or swipe the driveway. (I do like your post however, it's very outspoken, which is great to have on a forum.)

To some it`s a way of showing off, somewhat like those I have known that keep a large expensive car sitting on they’re drive just for appearances sake.

Nah. In fact the less visible a maid is, the better it is. And besides all houses around me all have at least one maid; it just makes sense if you live in a larger home.

Those that do hire maids or live-in housekeepers should expect to take them into the fold of the family and not consider them as disposable household appliances, which is too often the case.

With a choice between those extremes I would choose 'the fold of the family' as they do become part of the team; but they're really not family. They have their own entrance and facilties and ideally you want to see them as little as possible. Really, REALLY good maids manage to remain almost invisible, working in a part of the house where you are not.

[gamini]

I suspect this is more about proletariat people coming to Thailand, who have absolutely no experience of managing domestic help.

A maid should be treated as an extended member of the family, who needs just as much leadership as one's children.

I would say this is not true. We had a lot of servants in the UK but we never treated them like extended familly. They lived in seperate quarters. Only our nanny and sewing lady were treated as familly. So experience from having servants in the Uk hardly helps handling servants here. The mentality of Thai servants is quite different. The most importatnt thing is to look after them and help them with thier problems and kindness..

[SantiSuk]

"In fact that's a reasonable approach in most cases; the man of the household shouldn't have to deal with maid issues; it's not you who's going to clean something properly if/when a maid fails to do so."

Speak for yourself!