Manchester United

[SantiSuk]

As Fergies said, it's all about stability at the back - which Man U did not have tonight, thus generating creeping consternation at the front end. Mouth/feet/insert both Sir Alex!

Unfortunate result for my 1st team, Arsenal though.

Great result for my second team and the only night this winter I can honestly say I'd rather be back in my other home in Pudsey (Leeds suburb)!

[mrtoad]

Sometimes football throws up some little gems

As much as the result disappointed me , I actually enjoyed the game. It was a proper FA cup tie, and I'm glad to see a bit of spice added back into the competition. Thought Leeds played very well, and Beckford and Bekko certainly caused some problems for United's back four. Never been a fan of Leeds, and don't care for them much at all, but it looks like they are back on the rise - and for their suffering fans who have had a load of shit over teh past few years, a resulkt like this is well deserved.

Hopefully now Fergie will have a look at bringing a couple of players in during the window if the right ones are available, or possibly a couple of loans for some additional cover.

[mrbojangles]

Sometimes football throws up some little gems

As much as the result disappointed me , I actually enjoyed the game. It was a proper FA cup tie, and I'm glad to see a bit of spice added back into the competition.

Yeah. All joking aside, you're absolutely right Toady.

[sharecropper]

Sometimes football throws up some little gems

As much as the result disappointed me , I actually enjoyed the game. It was a proper FA cup tie, and I'm glad to see a bit of spice added back into the competition. Thought Leeds played very well, and Beckford and Bekko certainly caused some problems for United's back four. Never been a fan of Leeds, and don't care for them much at all, but it looks like they are back on the rise - and for their suffering fans who have had a load of shit over teh past few years, a resulkt like this is well deserved.

Hopefully now Fergie will have a look at bringing a couple of players in during the window if the right ones are available, or possibly a couple of loans for some additional cover.

I wonder if Gerrard, Mascherano and Torres will be available for loans. Or will their exits from Anfield be more final and only at the end of the season?

[Mosha]

Fergie didn't b;ame the reff It must have been his fault thehn.

[MSingh]

Sometimes football throws up some little gems

& that, & some, was one of them...

[alfieconn]

Sometimes football throws up some little gems

& that, & some, was one of them...

And utd had 12 men

Edited January 4, 2010 by alfieconn

[bkkjames]

Hopefully that result will get SAF to dig a few coins out of his pocket and strengthen the squad, while moving out the dead wood.

Neville at right back? I am 42 and can run faster than him, sign me up.

[Sparkles]

Hopefully that result will get SAF to dig a few coins out of his pocket and strengthen the squad, while moving out the dead wood.

Neville at right back? I am 42 and can run faster than him, sign me up.

I think we saw last night confirmation ,if we needed it, that Gary Neville's great career is coming to a conclusion. The legs are gone and to a certain extent you can get away with it in the midfield but not at RB where not only do you have to get down the flank at speed you have to turn around and get back ASAP.Last night he was caught out all over the place. We may have also seen the last time ,this season, that Ferguson will pick a bits and pieces team it was neither one thing or the other. Take out Evra , Carrick and Fletcher at the same time at your peril and Vidic injured in the warm up ???? not another Saha surely.he's missed an awful lot of games this season

[bkkjames]

Hopefully that result will get SAF to dig a few coins out of his pocket and strengthen the squad, while moving out the dead wood.

Neville at right back? I am 42 and can run faster than him, sign me up.

I think we saw last night confirmation ,if we needed it, that Gary Neville's great career is coming to a conclusion. The legs are gone and to a certain extent you can get away with it in the midfield but not at RB where not only do you have to get down the flank at speed you have to turn around and get back ASAP.Last night he was caught out all over the place. We may have also seen the last time ,this season, that Ferguson will pick a bits and pieces team it was neither one thing or the other. Take out Evra , Carrick and Fletcher at the same time at your peril and Vidic injured in the warm up ???? not another Saha surely.he's missed an awful lot of games this season

Agree, I don't buy the we'll be alright when all the defenders are healthy bit. Sorry but our two best rio and vidic are becoming chronically unfit.

Evans (like Anderson and Gibson ) cannot pass - they make Macherano look like Alonso.

CF - as seen again last night when teams set up 8 men in front of their goal our cute little passing in the front of them goes nowhere fast - we need some beef to go up for balls in from corners and tie up their CB's

[Sparkles]

Hopefully that result will get SAF to dig a few coins out of his pocket and strengthen the squad, while moving out the dead wood.

Neville at right back? I am 42 and can run faster than him, sign me up.

I think we saw last night confirmation ,if we needed it, that Gary Neville's great career is coming to a conclusion. The legs are gone and to a certain extent you can get away with it in the midfield but not at RB where not only do you have to get down the flank at speed you have to turn around and get back ASAP.Last night he was caught out all over the place. We may have also seen the last time ,this season, that Ferguson will pick a bits and pieces team it was neither one thing or the other. Take out Evra , Carrick and Fletcher at the same time at your peril and Vidic injured in the warm up ???? not another Saha surely.he's missed an awful lot of games this season

Agree, I don't buy the we'll be alright when all the defenders are healthy bit. Sorry but our two best rio and vidic are becoming chronically unfit.

Evans (like Anderson and Gibson ) cannot pass - they make Macherano look like Alonso.

CF - as seen again last night when teams set up 8 men in front of their goal our cute little passing in the front of them goes nowhere fast - we need some beef to go up for balls in from corners and tie up their CB's

A rather testy Ferguson has apparently bought out the hair dryer as well he should. When asked what happened to Vidic he replied "I dont know" I dont like the sound of that as I mentioned in previous posts somethings not right there. If no trophies come United way this season I sense a clean out. Anderson continues to disapoint , when he plays with Carrick and Fletcher he looks ok but is reluctant to shoulder the responsibilty when they are not. You are spot on in front of goal no one,except Rooney, is prepared to launch themselves at the ball. Valencia one of the few who can hold his head up played some good balls into the box and United players watched then fly by. I dont see buys in the transfer window. Clubs will not let their best players go and if they do its blackmail time unles its aloan deal. Personally I would be happy to see the transfer window go , do your buying in the summer and live with your decisions

[suiging]

Great game for the neutrals, the best team on the day won and what a great advert for the cup.

Heads up Mancs, you will be there or there abouts again soon enough.

[nev]

Great game for the neutrals, the best team on the day won and what a great advert for the cup.

Heads up Mancs, you will be there or there abouts again soon enough.

Good post mate,i enjoyed the game even though we lost love to see the tackles flying in like the old day's,football has gone to soft and to many free kicks are given for average tackles.

[bkkjames]

Time for City or Real to open up their checkbooks again...

Report: Nemanja Vidic Edges Toward Manchester United Exit As Sir Alex Ferguson Rages Over Mystery Injury

Jan 4, 2010 1:01:24 AM

Nemanja Vidic's future at Manchester United is looking more uncertain than ever following his late withdrawal from Sunday's FA Cup clash with Leeds United, The Mirror claims.

The Serbian centre-back - who was replaced by Wes Brown - allegedly refused to play after complaining of an indeterminate ailment during the warm-up, and he received little sympathy from his manager.

Talking to the press after the shock 1-0 defeat, Sir Alex Ferguson said: "I couldn't tell you what the situation is with Nemanja. I couldn't tell you at all."

This mystery injury only adds to the confusion surrounding Vidic's present situation, as the 28-year-old is said to be deeply unsettled at Old Trafford.

There is no lack of interest in the defender from abroad, with Spanish powerhouses Barcelona and Real Madrid both touted as likely buyers.

If that quote by SAF is true, he is on his way out of town with Nani

[mrbojangles]

I hate to say it but he's one of the best Defenders in the world. And personally, I love it when I see that he is out, especially when you're playing us.

Looks like another case of SAF p1ssing someone off

[nev]

I hate to say it but he's one of the best Defenders in the world. And personally, I love it when I see that he is out, especially when you're playing us.

Looks like another case of SAF p1ssing someone off

Mate i still reckon he will start against your lot on wednesday night fergie will get this team right,as we dont often loose two in row.

I would just like to add fergie has not played the same team twice in a row for 104 games now,he is a great manager but i reckon this is one thing he should correct,i am sure the team turn up for a game and no one has an idea who will play.

[MB1]

I hate to say it but he's one of the best Defenders in the world. And personally, I love it when I see that he is out, especially when you're playing us.

Looks like another case of SAF p1ssing someone off

Mate i still reckon he will start against your lot on wednesday night fergie will get this team right,as we dont often loose two in row.

I would just like to add fergie has not played the same team twice in a row for 104 games now,he is a great manager but i reckon this is one thing he should correct,i am sure the team turn up for a game and no one has an idea who will play.

Well I don't think anyone will expect the same team to be played after the performance against Leeds, total humiliation for the team, Ferguson, and most of all for the fans, unless of course your a Leeds fan, received a text yesterday from a freind , it read.:

"Severe Flood warning In Manchester due to 100s of thousands of Manchester Utd fans crying and 9000 Leeds fans pissing their selves with laughter."

Edited January 5, 2010 by MB1

[StevieH]

I hate to say it but he's one of the best Defenders in the world. And personally, I love it when I see that he is out, especially when you're playing us.

Looks like another case of SAF p1ssing someone off

don't think he is really, he gets regularly exposed by pace and i think ferguson's aware of that. i can't think of too many occasions when mister ferguson has got it wrong releasing players, there just aren't that many who have gone on to get much better elsewhere. if he can get 30m for vidic from madrid then it's good business - question then is, like liverpool, whether united will re-invest the money or whether the owners will tell him to play jonny evans as the money is going to pay off some interest on their debts.

[Sparkles]

I hate to say it but he's one of the best Defenders in the world. And personally, I love it when I see that he is out, especially when you're playing us.

Looks like another case of SAF p1ssing someone off

Mate i still reckon he will start against your lot on wednesday night fergie will get this team right,as we dont often loose two in row.

I would just like to add fergie has not played the same team twice in a row for 104 games now,he is a great manager but i reckon this is one thing he should correct,i am sure the team turn up for a game and no one has an idea who will play.

They known when they get on the bus the name tags of the run on team are up the front so they can get changed quickly in case of traffic jams, jing jing.

I think its common knowledge that Ferguson has for many years picked his team up to 2 weeks ahead, there is a pattern. For Birmingham ,which will be a dog fight, he will go for the scappers,not that we have many left .Oh for Hargreaves to be fit and back in action ,he can scrap. Wednesday night is a huge game for United to get some credibilty and belief back.Dont expect to see Neville, Wellbeck, Obertan ,Gibson and maybe Berbatov,how could he be so good at Spurs and so ordinary with United. Has scored nearly 50 goals for Bulgaria, who wouldnt win to many games and with loads of possession has gone goal shy >

[carmine]

I hate to say it but he's one of the best Defenders in the world. And personally, I love it when I see that he is out, especially when you're playing us.

Looks like another case of SAF p1ssing someone off

Mate i still reckon he will start against your lot on wednesday night fergie will get this team right,as we dont often loose two in row.

I would just like to add fergie has not played the same team twice in a row for 104 games now,he is a great manager but i reckon this is one thing he should correct,i am sure the team turn up for a game and no one has an idea who will play.

They known when they get on the bus the name tags of the run on team are up the front so they can get changed quickly in case of traffic jams, jing jing.

I think its common knowledge that Ferguson has for many years picked his team up to 2 weeks ahead, there is a pattern. For Birmingham ,which will be a dog fight, he will go for the scappers,not that we have many left .Oh for Hargreaves to be fit and back in action ,he can scrap. Wednesday night is a huge game for United to get some credibilty and belief back.Dont expect to see Neville, Wellbeck, Obertan ,Gibson and maybe Berbatov,how could he be so good at Spurs and so ordinary with United. Has scored nearly 50 goals for Bulgaria, who wouldnt win to many games and with loads of possession has gone goal shy >

I think he might have to play Berbatov, because Rooneys style does'nt suit a link up with Owen. But, i am not a Utd fan so i will stand to be corrected

[bkkjames]

I hate to say it but he's one of the best Defenders in the world. And personally, I love it when I see that he is out, especially when you're playing us.

Looks like another case of SAF p1ssing someone off

Mate i still reckon he will start against your lot on wednesday night fergie will get this team right,as we dont often loose two in row.

I would just like to add fergie has not played the same team twice in a row for 104 games now,he is a great manager but i reckon this is one thing he should correct,i am sure the team turn up for a game and no one has an idea who will play.

They known when they get on the bus the name tags of the run on team are up the front so they can get changed quickly in case of traffic jams, jing jing.

I think its common knowledge that Ferguson has for many years picked his team up to 2 weeks ahead, there is a pattern. For Birmingham ,which will be a dog fight, he will go for the scappers,not that we have many left .Oh for Hargreaves to be fit and back in action ,he can scrap. Wednesday night is a huge game for United to get some credibilty and belief back.Dont expect to see Neville, Wellbeck, Obertan ,Gibson and maybe Berbatov,how could he be so good at Spurs and so ordinary with United. Has scored nearly 50 goals for Bulgaria, who wouldnt win to many games and with loads of possession has gone goal shy >

I think he might have to play Berbatov, because Rooneys style does'nt suit a link up with Owen. But, i am not a Utd fan so i will stand to be corrected

Can the new lad play - Mr Diouf?

[Sparkles]

Thats a big ask for Diouf to play ,his feet have hardly touched the ground and not sure if WP has come through. I dont fully understand why Fergie thinks Rooney and Owen cant play together, quality players can usually adjust. What is difficult for Owen is he is regularly being given the last 20 mins to play, when things are not going right, and is expected to turn it around.He almost had an air swing the other night an indicator confidence is low. What United need is a big burly,head kicker, dare I say it a Dogba lookalike, that can crash through rather than this pretty touch football in front of goal with 8 defenders watching you mess it up. Its unlikely to happen in this transfer window though. All the lads in the youth and reserve team are not physically ready.

[nev]

Think we should go back to a 4-5-1 with rooney up front from now on.

berbatov needs agood look at himself,lately he hasbeen sulking around the pitch,and if a ball doe's not arrive at his feet he has a go at the player.

[Sparkles]

Well we can all settle down as the match at Eastlands for Wed night has been postponed due to the snow. Not so much a problem with the pitch but for the safety of fans getting there and trying to get home. That will give United a bit of breathing space and some soul searching before the weekends game with Birmingham. Story with Mame Diouf ,love the name, is that he does have work permit and is training at Carrington . He was of course highly recommended by Ole Gunner as its his old club. The boy apparently has great pace ,gets in well behind the backs but has a weakness in finishing ,well he should be right at home with United current form

[mrbojangles]

by Ole Gunner as its his old club.

Where is he now? One of my more likeable United players. Don't think i ever saw him make a foul or moan about not getting picked.

[Sparkles]

by Ole Gunner as its his old club.

Where is he now? One of my more likeable United players. Don't think i ever saw him make a foul or moan about not getting picked.

Ole was invited,by Ferguson, to take care of the United Reserves when he retired and is in his second season with them.He is popular with the younger players and this may be a springboard for him to manage at a higher level if he wants it. There is not a better role model in football today and when you watch some of the old games his contributions were immense and as you say not a diver , a moaner or a dirty player...top class human being.

[StevieH]

what do you make of this, glams fans? seems you're in a similar boat to us liverpool fans financially now.

One thing at Manchester United isn't going downhill: their debt

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-conn...ed-glazers-debt

Apart from the snowfall which smothered the Carling Cup semi‑final between Manchester's two clubs, 2010 has dawned to wildly contrasting fortunes for City and United. Sunday's 1-0 FA Cup humbling by Leeds was accompanied by reports that United's owners, the Florida‑based Glazer family, are trying again to refinance the £700m debts which their 2005 takeover has imposed on the club. For City, Saturday's 1-0 Cup victory at Middlesbrough has been followed by the solid news that Sheikh Mansour, City's Abu Dhabi owner, has personally invested £395m in the club since he took over 17 months ago, converting all of it into shares, not loans.

In simple terms, the lottery of English football clubs being companies up for sale on the open market has delivered a winning ticket to the Blues, not the Reds. Mansour has made an enormous financial investment in City, while the Glazers, since they bought United in their bitterly contested takeover, have given the club not one penny to spend. Quite the opposite; their ownership has drained the club of huge sums of money. In only three years up to 30 June 2008, the closing date of their most recent published accounts, United became liable to pay a staggering £263m in interest alone. Despite that, the capital lump sum which United owe to banks and hedge funds has actually snowballed by £159m, from £540m in 2005, to £699m in 2008.

That increase is accounted for partly by the very high interest charged on the £275m the Glazers borrowed from three hedge funds to buy United. When the entire debt was refinanced only 15 months later in August 2006, the hedge fund debt had risen by £79.1m, which included £13.2m for "early redemption". The refinancing paid that off, leaving United with £525m owed to banks and £138m owed to hedge funds. An estimated £29m was paid in professional fees then, principally to bankers, lawyers and accountants. Reports that the Glazers have appointed two banks,JP Morgan and Deutsche Bank, to seek refinancing again with bank bonds should be understood in that context: huge fees will be charged, there are likely to be early repayment premiums again on the £175m hedge fund debt United now owe, and the refinancing is likely to increase the total debt owed.

The Glazer family's spokesman refused to comment this week on those reports, and both JP Morgan and Deutsche Bank issued no comments. However, City sources indicated the reports are correct, and the refinancing is thought to be concentrating on the hedge fund debt, which is accumulating interest at 14.25%. The interest is rolling up: £38m interest was payable to the hedge funds in 2006-07; £23m in the year to June 2008; £25m to June 2009. By the time the capital is due for repayment, in August 2017, if it has not been refinanced and already paid off, the accumulated capital will have risen from an initial £138m borrowed from hedge funds, when the Glazers refinanced in August 2006, to £580m. That is in addition to the £524m of bank and other borrowings which United owed at June 2008.

The club and the Glazer family's spokesman have insisted that despite the interest payable, £69m in the year to 30 June 2008, which helped push United from an operating profit of £80m to a £43m loss, Sir Alex Ferguson has money to spend. Ferguson has maintained since the summer that he has not done so because United-calibre players are not available, and there is not "value in the market". He argues that players are overpriced, partly because of Mansour's intervention.

After United lost the Champions League final in May, Ferguson might have been expected to substantially strengthen his squad, but instead, Cristiano Ronaldo was sold to Real Madrid for £81m, and the manager signed only Antonio Valencia, for £17.5m from Wigan, Michael Owen, on a free transfer, and Gabriel Obertan, for £3m from Bordeaux. Whatever their protestations that money remains available, United's weakening through injury, occasional underperformance and Ferguson's dismissive approach to buying players means United are simply not carrying themselves as proud, cash-rich, Premier League champions with the Ronaldo money still in the bank. Time is surely running out for the argument that the debts – now, with interest, certainly more than £700m, vastly more than any other English club – are not financially constraining.

The Glazers have overseen a period of sustained success at Old Trafford, winning three Premier League titles and the Champions League in 2008, and Ferguson has always spoken supportively of their regime, which he finds easier to deal with than the regulated stock market-listed entity United were before. United insiders credit the Glazers with bringing in some of the roster of sponsors whose lucrative deals reflect the club's global presence and popularity. However, by far the largest proportion of United's record £257m turnover was still earned in the UK in 2007-08, and the largest proportion, £101.5m, came from match days at Old Trafford.

There, ticket prices have been increased significantly since the Glazers took over, a policy presented as a commercial virtue when they sought the refinancing in August 2006. Although United still boast awesome near-76,000 full houses for Premier League matches, and 74,526 witnessed the Leeds crash on Sunday, tickets do now remain on sale for most matches. United's spokesman, Phil Townsend, confirmed this week that bookings of corporate hospitality packages are down in the recession, and a third-round FA Cup exit will not have been in Ferguson's plan for the season or the Glazers' financial projections.

Stories have seeped out of United this season about rounds of quite meagre cuts, and Townsend acknowledged that the club has indeed been looking to cut costs. Twelve staff have been made redundant recently, he said, although he pointed out that this was from around 550 people employed in various departments.

"Like all other businesses in the current financial climate we have been looking to keep costs down," he said. "The demand for match-by-match corporate hospitality packages has gone down, depending on the fixture, but our 55,000 season tickets are sold out. We present a stable business model, the interest payments are serviced from the operating profit, and the club has said there is money for the manager to spend."

It is difficult to decipher how far the Glazers' own fortunes have been affected by the economic downturn, because they operate principally as private investors in the US. The family's charitable foundation says of Malcolm Glazer on its website that he "owns, has owned or has been the largest shareholder" of companies including Harley Davidson, Formica, Tonka, and Omega Protein, but some of those interests were sold off several years ago. The US property industry, in which the Glazers are significant investors, particularly in shopping malls, via their First Allied Corporation, is one of the sectors most pulverised by the economic typhoon.

The family's NFL franchise, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, enjoyed sustained success under the Glazers, winning the 2003 Super Bowl, yet have just concluded a miserable season, finishing bottom of their division with three wins from 16 games. Media reports, never denied, consistently said the Bucs were spending $30m (£19m) less than the permitted $100m under the NFL salary cap; the system allows franchise owners to take surplus money out for themselves. In January last year, the Glazers replaced the veteran, Super Bowl-winning coach Jon Gruden with Raheem Morris, who at 32 was the youngest coach in the NFL. The Glazers are still hailing that as a "bold decision", but the series of defeats have led to profound disillusionment among Bucs fans, who have also endured ticket price rises, and crowds at the Tampa Bay stadium have declined.

With a United squad looking suddenly threadbare, and a vintage manager due for retirement himself before too long, United supporters cannot help but see parallels between Stretford and Florida. Duncan Drasdo, chair of the Manchester United Supporters Trust, said this week: "We warned from the beginning that the Glazer takeover would saddle the club with huge debts and now we can see them biting. If it were a race, then United are dragging their owners behind them like a tractor, while City's owners are providing rocket fuel."

Before the Glazers arrived in 2005, nobody could have foreseen this bizarre reversal in Manchester. United, then the world's richest club, are lurching into the new decade with punishing debts, while City, of all clubs, are being roundly criticised after the sacking of their manager for being too ruthless, driven and improbably rich.

[nev]

what do you make of this, glams fans? seems you're in a similar boat to us liverpool fans financially now.

One thing at Manchester United isn't going downhill: their debt

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-conn...ed-glazers-debt

Apart from the snowfall which smothered the Carling Cup semi‑final between Manchester's two clubs, 2010 has dawned to wildly contrasting fortunes for City and United. Sunday's 1-0 FA Cup humbling by Leeds was accompanied by reports that United's owners, the Florida‑based Glazer family, are trying again to refinance the £700m debts which their 2005 takeover has imposed on the club. For City, Saturday's 1-0 Cup victory at Middlesbrough has been followed by the solid news that Sheikh Mansour, City's Abu Dhabi owner, has personally invested £395m in the club since he took over 17 months ago, converting all of it into shares, not loans.

In simple terms, the lottery of English football clubs being companies up for sale on the open market has delivered a winning ticket to the Blues, not the Reds. Mansour has made an enormous financial investment in City, while the Glazers, since they bought United in their bitterly contested takeover, have given the club not one penny to spend. Quite the opposite; their ownership has drained the club of huge sums of money. In only three years up to 30 June 2008, the closing date of their most recent published accounts, United became liable to pay a staggering £263m in interest alone. Despite that, the capital lump sum which United owe to banks and hedge funds has actually snowballed by £159m, from £540m in 2005, to £699m in 2008.

That increase is accounted for partly by the very high interest charged on the £275m the Glazers borrowed from three hedge funds to buy United. When the entire debt was refinanced only 15 months later in August 2006, the hedge fund debt had risen by £79.1m, which included £13.2m for "early redemption". The refinancing paid that off, leaving United with £525m owed to banks and £138m owed to hedge funds. An estimated £29m was paid in professional fees then, principally to bankers, lawyers and accountants. Reports that the Glazers have appointed two banks,JP Morgan and Deutsche Bank, to seek refinancing again with bank bonds should be understood in that context: huge fees will be charged, there are likely to be early repayment premiums again on the £175m hedge fund debt United now owe, and the refinancing is likely to increase the total debt owed.

The Glazer family's spokesman refused to comment this week on those reports, and both JP Morgan and Deutsche Bank issued no comments. However, City sources indicated the reports are correct, and the refinancing is thought to be concentrating on the hedge fund debt, which is accumulating interest at 14.25%. The interest is rolling up: £38m interest was payable to the hedge funds in 2006-07; £23m in the year to June 2008; £25m to June 2009. By the time the capital is due for repayment, in August 2017, if it has not been refinanced and already paid off, the accumulated capital will have risen from an initial £138m borrowed from hedge funds, when the Glazers refinanced in August 2006, to £580m. That is in addition to the £524m of bank and other borrowings which United owed at June 2008.

The club and the Glazer family's spokesman have insisted that despite the interest payable, £69m in the year to 30 June 2008, which helped push United from an operating profit of £80m to a £43m loss, Sir Alex Ferguson has money to spend. Ferguson has maintained since the summer that he has not done so because United-calibre players are not available, and there is not "value in the market". He argues that players are overpriced, partly because of Mansour's intervention.

After United lost the Champions League final in May, Ferguson might have been expected to substantially strengthen his squad, but instead, Cristiano Ronaldo was sold to Real Madrid for £81m, and the manager signed only Antonio Valencia, for £17.5m from Wigan, Michael Owen, on a free transfer, and Gabriel Obertan, for £3m from Bordeaux. Whatever their protestations that money remains available, United's weakening through injury, occasional underperformance and Ferguson's dismissive approach to buying players means United are simply not carrying themselves as proud, cash-rich, Premier League champions with the Ronaldo money still in the bank. Time is surely running out for the argument that the debts – now, with interest, certainly more than £700m, vastly more than any other English club – are not financially constraining.

The Glazers have overseen a period of sustained success at Old Trafford, winning three Premier League titles and the Champions League in 2008, and Ferguson has always spoken supportively of their regime, which he finds easier to deal with than the regulated stock market-listed entity United were before. United insiders credit the Glazers with bringing in some of the roster of sponsors whose lucrative deals reflect the club's global presence and popularity. However, by far the largest proportion of United's record £257m turnover was still earned in the UK in 2007-08, and the largest proportion, £101.5m, came from match days at Old Trafford.

There, ticket prices have been increased significantly since the Glazers took over, a policy presented as a commercial virtue when they sought the refinancing in August 2006. Although United still boast awesome near-76,000 full houses for Premier League matches, and 74,526 witnessed the Leeds crash on Sunday, tickets do now remain on sale for most matches. United's spokesman, Phil Townsend, confirmed this week that bookings of corporate hospitality packages are down in the recession, and a third-round FA Cup exit will not have been in Ferguson's plan for the season or the Glazers' financial projections.

Stories have seeped out of United this season about rounds of quite meagre cuts, and Townsend acknowledged that the club has indeed been looking to cut costs. Twelve staff have been made redundant recently, he said, although he pointed out that this was from around 550 people employed in various departments.

"Like all other businesses in the current financial climate we have been looking to keep costs down," he said. "The demand for match-by-match corporate hospitality packages has gone down, depending on the fixture, but our 55,000 season tickets are sold out. We present a stable business model, the interest payments are serviced from the operating profit, and the club has said there is money for the manager to spend."

It is difficult to decipher how far the Glazers' own fortunes have been affected by the economic downturn, because they operate principally as private investors in the US. The family's charitable foundation says of Malcolm Glazer on its website that he "owns, has owned or has been the largest shareholder" of companies including Harley Davidson, Formica, Tonka, and Omega Protein, but some of those interests were sold off several years ago. The US property industry, in which the Glazers are significant investors, particularly in shopping malls, via their First Allied Corporation, is one of the sectors most pulverised by the economic typhoon.

The family's NFL franchise, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, enjoyed sustained success under the Glazers, winning the 2003 Super Bowl, yet have just concluded a miserable season, finishing bottom of their division with three wins from 16 games. Media reports, never denied, consistently said the Bucs were spending $30m (£19m) less than the permitted $100m under the NFL salary cap; the system allows franchise owners to take surplus money out for themselves. In January last year, the Glazers replaced the veteran, Super Bowl-winning coach Jon Gruden with Raheem Morris, who at 32 was the youngest coach in the NFL. The Glazers are still hailing that as a "bold decision", but the series of defeats have led to profound disillusionment among Bucs fans, who have also endured ticket price rises, and crowds at the Tampa Bay stadium have declined.

With a United squad looking suddenly threadbare, and a vintage manager due for retirement himself before too long, United supporters cannot help but see parallels between Stretford and Florida. Duncan Drasdo, chair of the Manchester United Supporters Trust, said this week: "We warned from the beginning that the Glazer takeover would saddle the club with huge debts and now we can see them biting. If it were a race, then United are dragging their owners behind them like a tractor, while City's owners are providing rocket fuel."

Before the Glazers arrived in 2005, nobody could have foreseen this bizarre reversal in Manchester. United, then the world's richest club, are lurching into the new decade with punishing debts, while City, of all clubs, are being roundly criticised after the sacking of their manager for being too ruthless, driven and improbably rich.

Stevie just republishing old news,we know we are f**ked just waiting for the recievers to walk in and take over.

How they got away with buying united with borrowed money,and then get the club itself to pay that debt is laughable.

United and liverpool are both sinking ship's,sad state of affairs that yank's can come in take over the two most successfull club's in england and ruin them.

At least we did not welcome them with open arm's,the fans did try and put up a fight.

[StevieH]

hah. we're still fighting nev, but when you can't convince season ticket holders to stop going to the match as a form of protest, you're pretty much fighting a losing battle.

[bkkjames]

Yep time for us to join the Itihad United crowd and sell up