Manchester United

[The Vulcan]

What a game, and in the end I think we did deserve it. First half all United and Second half all Chelsea, but we were certainly better in Extra time. I think more interesting is that it looks like the Ronaldo rumours have been put to bed, abd Ferguson also has no intention of retiring. United conducted themselves in a proper manner, which was in great contrast to the whinging, whining, diving and disputing off all the decisions that the ref made. Ballack in particular IMO is a very lucky man not to have been sent off for persistent dissent, and he was the initial casue of the fracas that resulted in the "Idiot Drogba" getting sent off. OK, they might not have liked the fact that United knocked the ball into touch, but Chelsea had done the same on three previous occasions when United had given possession away for injuries. A case "TOUGH SHIT".

Well done to United and Sir Alex once again, a great night albeit a late one. I'm hoping there'll be a couple more in the near future. As for Chelsea, they played their part in a dramatic final, but I really can't feel sorry for them. I very much doubt they have won any new friends with their behaviour on the pitch last night.

It was great to win in such dramatic fashion and see United led up the steps by the Legend Bobby Charlton, in contrast Chelsea were led up the steps by Peter Kenyon (<deleted>?).,I think that sums it up. [/i]

Excellent summary Toad. You took the words right out of my mouth. The only addition to Ballack must be Joe Cole with his equally pathetic antics.

[nev]

just like to add praise to fergie.

he brought 4 players in this year for moments like this and all 4 scored in the penalty shoot out.

[Prakanong]

What was it with Peter Kenyon going up - It made them look even dafter

I hope Drogba's last act in English football was the slap - the idiot - he would have taken a penalty and not Terry who I do feel sorry for a teensy bit

It seems it was fate for Man U though - 50 and 40 years later. The 1968 game is the first game I really took notice of and stayed up late that night too but was young at the time - after 6 this morning when I got back to bed.

Well if it can not be Sunderland I am glad it was Man U - title next season makes them equal with Liverpool but somehow i feel someone else might nick it.

[Neeranam]

Well Done United - Ferguson is a great manager - from that night in Gothenburg in 1983, I knew he was going to be a legend - pity he didn't stay with my team, Aberdeen.

Personally, it was great to see the faces of the footballers I hate the most - Lampard an Terry, with the latter missing a penalty, the icing on the cake.

[Neeranam]

Who is Peter Kenyon?

[Prakanong]

Who is Peter Kenyon?

Chelsea Chief Executive - he was with Man U previously in the same role.

It was supposed to be a clubs famous player or loyal servant - Kenyon is hardly either - tosser

[mrtoad]

Who is Peter Kenyon?

I think that question sums it up.

Edited May 22, 2008 by mrtoad

[Travel2003]

Who is Peter Kenyon?

A former Man Utd employee turned to prostitution in London area.

I almost cried of happiness when I saw terry cry of disappointment.

[mrtoad]

Enjoy these Pics of John "Tiny Tears" Terry.

Oh Dear, it's all gone tits up

Tears of a clown

Aw diddums

Nevermind, there's always next time

[BIGTOE3]

What a game, and in the end I think we did deserve it. First half all United and Second half all Chelsea, but we were certainly better in Extra time. I think more interesting is that it looks like the Ronaldo rumours have been put to bed, abd Ferguson also has no intention of retiring. United conducted themselves in a proper manner, which was in great contrast to the whinging, whining, diving and disputing off all the decisions that the ref made. Ballack in particular IMO is a very lucky man not to have been sent off for persistent dissent, and he was the initial casue of the fracas that resulted in the "Idiot Drogba" getting sent off. OK, they might not have liked the fact that United knocked the ball into touch, but Chelsea had done the same on three previous occasions when United had given possession away for injuries. A case "TOUGH SHIT".

Well done to United and Sir Alex once again, a great night albeit a late one. I'm hoping there'll be a couple more in the near future. As for Chelsea, they played their part in a dramatic final, but I really can't feel sorry for them. I very much doubt they have won any new friends with their behaviour on the pitch last night.

It was great to win in such dramatic fashion and see United led up the steps by the Legend Bobby Charlton, in contrast Chelsea were led up the steps by Peter Kenyon (<deleted>?).,I think that sums it up. [/i]

Excellent summary Toad. You took the words right out of my mouth. The only addition to Ballack must be Joe Cole with his equally pathetic antics.

I totally agree with above comments but would also add Drogba to list.

Well done Utd roll on next year. for number 4 and when we get to 6 Fergie can finnally retire.

BT

[Travel2003]

Enjoy these Pics of John "Tiny Tears" Terry.

Oh Dear, it's all gone tits up

Tears of a clown

Aw diddums

Nevermind, there's always next time

Oh I do. I really do.

I almost started to cry again, of happiness.

[mrtoad]

Samaritans are offering counselling to all Chelsea fans. Call 0800 101010 – that’s 08000 won nothing won nothing won nothing.

And If that line gets too busy there is another number to call: 0800 6-5 6-5 6-5.

[LeungKen]

Can anyone confirm the rumour that the City of Manchester is not hosting a civic reception for United due to the rampaging Rangers ruffians trashing of this city last week. ?

[Macclad]

Can anyone confirm the rumour that the City of Manchester is not hosting a civic reception for United due to the rampaging Rangers ruffians trashing of this city last week. ?

As it stands,at the moment,there wont be a civic reception for United because of the trouble last week.

But I understand that there are ongoing talks going on between United officials,the council and the police so,hopefully,something will happen........lets hope common sense prevails.

Glasgow Rangers fans got their comuppance last night.......Aberdeen 2 Rangers 0......Celtic champions.

[mrtoad]

Can anyone confirm the rumour that the City of Manchester is not hosting a civic reception for United due to the rampaging Rangers ruffians trashing of this city last week. ?

As it stands,at the moment,there wont be a civic reception for United because of the trouble last week.

But I understand that there are ongoing talks going on between United officials,the council and the police so,hopefully,something will happen........lets hope common sense prevails.

Glasgow Rangers fans got their comuppance last night.......Aberdeen 2 Rangers 0......Celtic champions.

I agree, their stupidity last week has resulted in further stupidity from the Police and the local authority, but it would be really sad if United are denied the opportunity to show the Trophies to the fans because of a load of marauding Jocks. I agree totally with Macclad, in hoping that common sense prevails. If it had been Man City I would have said the same.

[LeungKen]

This really makes my blood boil - that a few "idiots" can spoil the celebrations of thousands.

"may the fleas of a thousand camels infest the bodies for eternity"

[Macclad]

I agree, their stupidity last week has resulted in further stupidity from the Police and the local authority, but it would be really sad if United are denied the opportunity to show the Trophies to the fans because of a load of marauding Jocks. I agree totally with Macclad, in hoping that common sense prevails. If it had been Man City I would have said the same.

Mr.T. I believe that Man City are after a civic parade as well......to celebrate their qualification for the UEFA Cup

[mrtoad]

FERGIE'S HERE TO STAY

NEEDS NEW FIX: Alex Ferguson

Friday May 23,2008

By Richard Tanner

Sir Alex Ferguson last night dismissed rumours he could call it quits by revealing he is already looking for his next football fix.

Just hours after a dramatic Champions League triumph had earned his 22nd major trophy at Manchester United, he said: “I am not retiring – in fact I am already thinking about next season. The euphoria evaporates almost immediately and then I move on. It’s just something in me, to create that drug again.

“That save by Edwin van der Sar was my moment, you enjoy the immediate euphoria and excitement and then you just carry on. When you win something, the first thing you do the following season is to look at the players’ eyes to make sure the hunger is there. “And we have players who want to do it again and again, I’m sure of that. It will not be easy, defending the European Cup is not easy to do – but I certainly think this team is good enough.

“There are certain players who will improve immeasurably next year.”

And he confirmed that, despite all the efforts by Real Madrid to prise away Cristiano Ronaldo from Old Trafford, the Portugal winger will be part of United’s future.

Ronaldo himself appeared to end the speculation. He said: “I would love to stay with this club. I love the people. The players are fantastic. The atmosphere at Old Trafford is unbelievable. All the staff are great.

“I feel very happy at the club. I win trophies. The people are friendly, the support is amazing. Everything is very good.”

Ferguson’s No2, Carlos Queiroz, revealed he has warned Ronaldo that joining Real would be a mistake.

Queiroz, who spent a turbulent season as boss at the Bernabeu, said: “Real Madrid is not like Manchester United. There are times there when you don’t know who is in charge – whether it is the media or the club.

“I have talked to Cristiano about this and, without doubt, he will stay at United.”

Ronaldo has four years left on his current £120,000-a-week deal but United are set to give him a significant pay rise this summer as a reward for his season.

It's all good news really, and all of this Ronaldo speculation is being generated by Madrids media paper Merca, which is pretty much the way that Madrid do their recruirting. Why would Ronalso want to take a step down to a team that have pretty much been non-existent in Europe over the past few years, and generaly not overly impressive in the Liga? I'm sure he'll go some day, but United do not sell players that they want to keep. He will go when United want to sell him, not when Real Madrid want to buy him. Beckham, Stam, Ince, Van Nistleroy all went when they were deemewd surplus, Ronaldo will be no different.

A little bit of tinkering in the summer, maybe another defender Micah Richards and an out and out Striker with physical prescence (How about Drogba? ) , and United will be even stronger. Looks like Silvestre is off, so another defender would be a good thing, given Nevilles injury problems.

[mrtoad]

This piece is a classic, I've posted the link as it's the comments after that are really revelaing about the popularity of our favourite player .

I actually thought that the heading of the article was being ironic, but it's obviuosly written by either a Chelsea fan, Jon Terry's babysitter or a non-football person.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...pionsleague0708

[LeungKen]

This piece is a classic, I've posted the link as it's the comments after that are really revelaing about the popularity of our favourite player .

I actually thought that the heading of the article was being ironic, but it's obviuosly written by either a Chelsea fan, Jon Terry's babysitter or a non-football person.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...pionsleague0708

What is even more illuminating Mr.T. are the comments after the article where I think 3 readers agree with the journo and about 87 reckon it's a load of "<deleted>" all seem to agree that JT is Not a good sport. Not a leader and certainly no role model for the young.

and

Why not "In Praise of Ryan Giggs" - now there's a real role model.

[mrtoad]

This piece is a classic, I've posted the link as it's the comments after that are really revelaing about the popularity of our favourite player .

I actually thought that the heading of the article was being ironic, but it's obviuosly written by either a Chelsea fan, Jon Terry's babysitter or a non-football person.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...pionsleague0708

What is even more illuminating Mr.T. are the comments after the article where I think 3 readers agree with the journo and about 87 reckon it's a load of "<deleted>" all seem to agree that JT is Not a good sport. Not a leader and certainly no role model for the young.

and

Why not "In Praise of Ryan Giggs" - now there's a real role model.

I agree totally Ken, Giggs would have been perfect. Terry is a foulmouthed thug, who does not deserve any praise for his antics. The concensus is pretty overwhelming really, and for one it's not United getting the sharp end. Hence, I am rather enjoying it.

[mrtoad]

Thought that this was an interesting article, couldn't fault it.

Lesson of John Terry's penalty misadventure

Simon Barnes

Sooner or later you must find yourself standing before the world exactly as you are. The processes of life will strip you of your pretensions and your conceit and leave you with all the awkward bits you hoped no one would notice. You are forced to stand naked, bereft of self-image, without the support of a personal mythology. The world sees us for what we are and for just about everyone that is a good deal less than we had hoped.

If that rule works itself out in real life over extended periods of time, in sport it can happen in the blink of an eye. It can happen in the fraction of a second it takes to put a boot to a ball and the person unwittingly exposed must pay the penalty for the rest of his life.

There's many a slip twixt cup and lip and many a slip twixt boot and grass, as John Terry has to accept. I am no great lover of the penalty shoot-out, but if you have sufficient cruelty in your make-up - in other words, if you are an average human being - you cannot fail to find a hideous but fascinating revelation of character every time football stops being football and starts being Russian roulette.

The way of the shoot-out is to seek out not heroes but fools. More than any other device in sport, the shoot-out seeks only to belittle and diminish. There were three penalty misses at the end of the Champions League final between Manchester United and Chelsea and all three were deeply instructive of the hopes and illusions we had built about the penalty-takers.

Let us take them in order. The first to miss was Cristiano Ronaldo. All right, a marvellous season, a tally of goals rising to an impressive 42 with his header in open play in the final. But all the same, many suggested that his designation of greatness was premature.

Consistency is only a part of it. Come, let us see if he can take on this single great occasion and dominate it. Some saw such a demand as carping and unfair; most of us genuinely wanted to see what he was made of. Ronaldo's vanity and love of trickery are essential parts of his talent. His delight in making a show of himself is sometimes a matter of considerable courage, but it can also display a weakness. And on Wednesday night the weakness was what he revealed to the watching billion-odd.

He took his penalty with an absurdly exaggerated stutter in the run-up. It was a penalty of a man convinced of his genius and, crucially, of the infinitely lower status of those around him.

Trick penalties are affectations, training-ground gimmicks, and invariably those who bring them out for serious action live to regret it. Principal among these is Gary Lineker, whose daft little chip-shot kept him for ever one away from Sir Bobby Charlton's record as top England goalscorer. Ronaldo was undone by vanity. The trick was an unworthy thing. It betrayed a truth - that deep down the man prefers image to substance.

It seemed that Ronaldo's miss would be decisive, that Chelsea would put up a full book of five. They had, after all, four out of four when Terry stepped up to take the kick that would win the European Cup. JT! John Terry himself! Who could doubt that he would prevail? The great leader, the man you can rely on; it was like dad coming in to make sure that everything was all right. Rest easy, Terry's here.

But no. He slipped on impact, his standing foot sliding away and the ball ballooning wide via the outside of a post. Neither he nor anyone else wearing blue could believe it had happened. Surely it was the cruellest luck.

But it wasn't. After all, no one else fell over. Terry was leaning back as he struck the ball, his weight all behind him instead of being over the ball. He fell because, at this defining moment of his life, his technique failed him. Which is another way of saying that his competitive nerve failed him. We will have to review our notion of Terry as the man of iron, the ultimately unflappable professional, Mr Dependable, the human rock. With sudden, dreadful frailty he turned triumph into sporting disaster. It is a revelation of his fallibility that will come as a shock to him.

David Beckham has the same fault and it brought the same result. He was also too much in love with playing the leader when he was captain of England. He loved the title of leader more than he liked leading men, that was the truth of it. He also took a crucial penalty and missed, costing England their chances of advancing in the European Championship of 2004.

Terry's view of himself as the leader took a heavy blow with his miss in Moscow. With one slip his aura of imperturbability has gone, his reputation for ever damaged. We will never look on him in the same way again; and neither, perhaps, will he.

Nicolas Anelka completed what Terry had begun for Chelsea, his penalty obligingly and weakly struck so that Edwin van der Sar was able to pick off the save that won the competition. Hands up all those who, even before the events of Wednesday night, would be happy to have Anelka take a penalty for your life. Hmm, thought as much.

Anelka conducted himself through extra time, as through all matches, with an air of slighted genius. He is a Beaumont or a Fletcher who thinks he is Shakespeare and cannot understand why the world has failed to recognise him for what he is. He has all the loyalty of a labrador at a children's party; whoever drops the biggest crumbs will have Anelka at his feet.

It is significant, perhaps, that Anelka is the only signing made by Avram Grant since he took over from José Mourinho at Chelsea. That is the way Anelka habitually rewards those who go in to bat for him. Every manager thinks that he will be the one to get the best from the Frenchman and every manager fails. It was commitment that was lacking in Anelka's effort. He couldn't, at bottom, force himself to believe that it really mattered.

And that is the way it must always be with penalty shoot-outs. It is a device to bring out the worst in people, the worst in football. They have their being in the world of drama and the revelation of character. But it is one of the founding truths of sport: you don't reveal the character that you wished you had or that you thought you had. You reveal the character that you actually are. And there is nothing crueller than that, in life or in sport.

[mrtoad]

Ferguson slams Real over Ronaldo

Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson has accused Real Madrid of lacking morals in their pursuit of Cristiano Ronaldo.

Real coach Bernd Schuster and president Ramon Calderon have both expressed a desire to see Ronaldo at The Bernabeu.

Ferguson, fresh from United's Champions League truimph, said: "Schuster's talking and Calderon's talking.

"Real think they can ride roughshod over everyone, but they won't do it with us. They have no moral issues."

And Ferguson drew a comparison with Real's fierce rivals Barcelona as he fought to draw a line under continuing speculation surrounding the 23-year-old Portuguese winger's future.

He said: "In terms of great clubs, Barcelona have far better morality than Real Madrid will ever have. Real use this Marca newspaper as a vehicle to unsettle players.

"Do you not think we have had many expressions of interest about our players from big clubs in Europe?

"Real Madrid are not the only club interested in Ronaldo. But the others are not saying so. They don't get into this nonsense.

"Calderon makes that great statement 'slavery was abolished many years ago'. Did they tell General Franco that? Give me a break.

"The simple fact is Cristiano has another four years left on his contract."

United have sold David Beckham, Ruud van Nistelrooy and Gabriel Heinze to Real in recent years, but Ferguson insisted the case of Ronaldo was different.

He said: "Yes, we sold them Van Nistelrooy and Beckham but we did that because we wanted to."

And Argentine defender Heinze was transferred to Real last summer after failing in a public battle to secure a move to United's arch-rivals Liverpool.

Real should <deleted> Off.

[mrtoad]

Another one from the Champs league, quite funny.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll276/T...leTerryBees.gif

[Prakanong]

"He has all the loyalty of a labrador at a children's party; whoever drops the biggest crumbs will have Anelka at his feet."

I loved this line - it will be used in a meeting next week

[Sparkles]

Thought that this was an interesting article, couldn't fault it.

Lesson of John Terry's penalty misadventure

Simon Barnes

Sooner or later you must find yourself standing before the world exactly as you are. The processes of life will strip you of your pretensions and your conceit and leave you with all the awkward bits you hoped no one would notice. You are forced to stand naked, bereft of self-image, without the support of a personal mythology. The world sees us for what we are and for just about everyone that is a good deal less than we had hoped.

If that rule works itself out in real life over extended periods of time, in sport it can happen in the blink of an eye. It can happen in the fraction of a second it takes to put a boot to a ball and the person unwittingly exposed must pay the penalty for the rest of his life.

There's many a slip twixt cup and lip and many a slip twixt boot and grass, as John Terry has to accept. I am no great lover of the penalty shoot-out, but if you have sufficient cruelty in your make-up - in other words, if you are an average human being - you cannot fail to find a hideous but fascinating revelation of character every time football stops being football and starts being Russian roulette.

The way of the shoot-out is to seek out not heroes but fools. More than any other device in sport, the shoot-out seeks only to belittle and diminish. There were three penalty misses at the end of the Champions League final between Manchester United and Chelsea and all three were deeply instructive of the hopes and illusions we had built about the penalty-takers.

Let us take them in order. The first to miss was Cristiano Ronaldo. All right, a marvellous season, a tally of goals rising to an impressive 42 with his header in open play in the final. But all the same, many suggested that his designation of greatness was premature.

Consistency is only a part of it. Come, let us see if he can take on this single great occasion and dominate it. Some saw such a demand as carping and unfair; most of us genuinely wanted to see what he was made of. Ronaldo's vanity and love of trickery are essential parts of his talent. His delight in making a show of himself is sometimes a matter of considerable courage, but it can also display a weakness. And on Wednesday night the weakness was what he revealed to the watching billion-odd.

He took his penalty with an absurdly exaggerated stutter in the run-up. It was a penalty of a man convinced of his genius and, crucially, of the infinitely lower status of those around him.

Trick penalties are affectations, training-ground gimmicks, and invariably those who bring them out for serious action live to regret it. Principal among these is Gary Lineker, whose daft little chip-shot kept him for ever one away from Sir Bobby Charlton's record as top England goalscorer. Ronaldo was undone by vanity. The trick was an unworthy thing. It betrayed a truth - that deep down the man prefers image to substance.

It seemed that Ronaldo's miss would be decisive, that Chelsea would put up a full book of five. They had, after all, four out of four when Terry stepped up to take the kick that would win the European Cup. JT! John Terry himself! Who could doubt that he would prevail? The great leader, the man you can rely on; it was like dad coming in to make sure that everything was all right. Rest easy, Terry's here.

But no. He slipped on impact, his standing foot sliding away and the ball ballooning wide via the outside of a post. Neither he nor anyone else wearing blue could believe it had happened. Surely it was the cruellest luck.

But it wasn't. After all, no one else fell over. Terry was leaning back as he struck the ball, his weight all behind him instead of being over the ball. He fell because, at this defining moment of his life, his technique failed him. Which is another way of saying that his competitive nerve failed him. We will have to review our notion of Terry as the man of iron, the ultimately unflappable professional, Mr Dependable, the human rock. With sudden, dreadful frailty he turned triumph into sporting disaster. It is a revelation of his fallibility that will come as a shock to him.

David Beckham has the same fault and it brought the same result. He was also too much in love with playing the leader when he was captain of England. He loved the title of leader more than he liked leading men, that was the truth of it. He also took a crucial penalty and missed, costing England their chances of advancing in the European Championship of 2004.

Terry's view of himself as the leader took a heavy blow with his miss in Moscow. With one slip his aura of imperturbability has gone, his reputation for ever damaged. We will never look on him in the same way again; and neither, perhaps, will he.

Nicolas Anelka completed what Terry had begun for Chelsea, his penalty obligingly and weakly struck so that Edwin van der Sar was able to pick off the save that won the competition. Hands up all those who, even before the events of Wednesday night, would be happy to have Anelka take a penalty for your life. Hmm, thought as much.

Anelka conducted himself through extra time, as through all matches, with an air of slighted genius. He is a Beaumont or a Fletcher who thinks he is Shakespeare and cannot understand why the world has failed to recognise him for what he is. He has all the loyalty of a labrador at a children's party; whoever drops the biggest crumbs will have Anelka at his feet.

It is significant, perhaps, that Anelka is the only signing made by Avram Grant since he took over from José Mourinho at Chelsea. That is the way Anelka habitually rewards those who go in to bat for him. Every manager thinks that he will be the one to get the best from the Frenchman and every manager fails. It was commitment that was lacking in Anelka's effort. He couldn't, at bottom, force himself to believe that it really mattered.

And that is the way it must always be with penalty shoot-outs. It is a device to bring out the worst in people, the worst in football. They have their being in the world of drama and the revelation of character. But it is one of the founding truths of sport: you don't reveal the character that you wished you had or that you thought you had. You reveal the character that you actually are. And there is nothing crueller than that, in life or in sport.

Excellent article, especially in relation to John Terrys technique at the time of impact on the ball. I am getting a little tired of all the "bad luck" theories. Not mentioned ,in any piece I have read was the fact that the 4 players Ferguson brought in this year Hargreaves ,Teves, Nani and Anderson all converted their attempts with confidence. The latter 2 are totally inexperienced at this level and their composure was remarkable.

[Prakanong]

"Excellent article, especially in relation to John Terrys technique at the time of impact on the ball. I am getting a little tired of all the "bad luck" theories.

Agree with you - the bad luck we were better on points southern whinging bastard make me laugh. I am a Sunderland supportwer not Man U and I really hope I never whinge like that.

Losing like that would make some teams stronger but that will not be the case woth Chelsea - the Russian mafia guy will spend like a sailor with no arms just in port for one last go and if it fails will abandon them.

Grant is sacked already - probably the only guy at Chelsea with any integrity the rest are pure scum with Kenyon at the head of the list who deserves all the bad things in life

[mrtoad]

Whilst Chelsea continue to bicker among themselves and complain of the unfairness of everything, United just get on with it in the proper manner...

More, more, more - United plan ahead

Jamie Jackson The Observer, Sunday May 25 2008 Article history

At around 1.40am Moscow time on Thursday, a very wet and contented Paul Scholes broke away from his jubilant Manchester United team-mates to wander across the Luzhniki Stadium pitch. The 33-year-old had featured prominently in the build-up to the 2008 Champions League final because of his suspension from United's 1999 triumph. But, as he experienced a personal moment of redemption, Scholes was about to demonstrate why, in the post-match press conference, Sir Alex Ferguson would describe him, Ryan Giggs and Gary Neville as 'knowing what Manchester United means and how to conduct themselves'.

Scholes humbly took time to shake the hands of the inconsolable Chelsea players, who had just suffered defeat by the dreaded penalty shoot-out, though he did not have much luck with a disconsolate John Terry, whose missed kick cost Chelsea the European Cup. Later, Terry refused to talk to the media, despite being his team's captain, and has since had to defend himself against allegations that he spat at Carlos Tevez.

While Terry's actions detracted from what could have been a noble defeat, Scholes's gave an added sheen to United's victory - before Ferguson gave it a hard edge of reality. 'I don't get carried away,' the manager said. 'Tomorrow morning I will be thinking about next season. It drains away very quickly - that drug, that final moment. I will be thinking about the future and looking into the players' eyes to make sure their hunger is still there.'

This United side of Cristiano Ronaldo, Wayne Rooney and Carlos Tevez was, said Ferguson, 'great, fantastic. My best team ever? Yes.' Almost in the same breath, though, he announced how Scholes and Giggs, those epitomes of what the club is all about, would be 'phased out'.

Why? Because he wants to achieve what no other club have done during the 15 years of the Champions League - retain the trophy.

Ferguson has had this opportunity once, following the 1999 victory against Bayern Munich, and failed. The best any club have managed is winning the Champions League one year and being losing finalists the next: Milan in 1994 and 1995, and Ajax in 1995 and 1996. The last team to hold on to the trophy were Milan in 1990 when a Frank Rijkaard goal defeated Sven-Goran Eriksson's Benfica to win what was still then just the plain old European Cup.

Immediately after the defeat of Chelsea in Moscow, Ferguson's players indicated their determination. 'There's no amount of money that can buy the feeling we have now,' Rio Ferdinand said. 'We want more. We want to go past people who have been here before, we want to win two, three, if we can. That's what drives us on. If you come to Manchester United, with its history, character and tradition - to not feel part of that, or want to be part of that, then it's a bit of disrespect to be honest.'

This will be music to Ferguson's always-open ears, precisely the attitude that should make the central defender Neville's permanent replacement as club captain. Asked if he felt United were now alongside Real Madrid and Milan, clubs with nine and seven European Cups respectively, Ferdinand said: 'Not really. I think you've got to get up to five or six, and that's something we're working towards.'

Michael Carrick agreed. 'I am not satisfied. It might sound greedy, but once you've got a taste for it you want more.

'It makes you understand how the likes of Giggsy and Scholesy want to keep going. We've got the team. We've got the squad. We have shown it once. It would be nice if we can keep it going.'

Complacency is the reason often given for why Ferguson's 1999 team of Giggs, Neville, Jaap Stam and David Beckham tailed off. Ferguson agreed, saying that same year that the Premiership titles won in the two seasons after 1999 'certainly took the edge off our play in Europe'.

There were other factors that hampered United's progress nine years ago. They included an ageing squad that featured Peter Schmeichel and Denis Irwin, and a lack of real depth of quality. After the match at the Luzhniki, these were alluded to by United's players. Giggs was quick to remind younger team-mates, including Carrick and Ronaldo, of what they could still achieve. 'I said to Ronaldo to enjoy it and make sure it's not your last. With his talent, at 22, 23, he should be having more nights like this. Hopefully he will.'

Wayne Rooney, who has now replaced Keane as United's talisman, agreed. 'We can get better. There are a lot of young players still learning the game, the ability and potential is definitely there.'

There was also agreement that Ferguson has a far stronger squad than in 1999. The Scot's other problem nine years ago was failing to strengthen. Of the 1999 starting XI, Schmeichel left immediately and was not properly replaced until Edwin Van der Sar arrived two seasons ago. In central defence, Ferguson fell out with Jaap Stam and only when Nemanja Vidic was bought in 2006 to partner Ferdinand did the club again have a formidable defence, one that conceded a club record low of 22 goals in the Premier League this season.

Now, Ferguson's immediate needs are a right-back to compete with Wes Brown for Neville's place and a striker capable of 20 goals, as Louis Saha seems likely to move this summer.

Despite Ferguson saying Van der Sar has 'more seasons in him', the Dutchman is a year older than Schmeichel was when he walked away. And, with Scholes and Giggs gradually fading from Ferguson's plans as first choices, a midfielder and wide player could also be brought to the club.

Before any fresh recruitment, though, Ferguson's first big task would seem to be convincing Ronaldo to stay. His contradictory utterings regarding his future are more reminiscent of Didier Drogba than Scholes, Giggs, or Neville. 'Manchester is not the best place. But the club is fantastic,' Ronaldo said.

This may be a bargaining ploy to improve a new five-year contract he signed last year. But it will hardly impress Ferguson, Sir Bobby Charlton, who recently criticised the 42-goal, double player of the year for still occasionally diving, or even Ferdinand, who is keen to emphasise the importance of togetherness.

'The manager here and the players who have been here for a long time, and everyone at the training ground they all buy into that, and every new player has to buy into that as well,' said the captain.

If next season's Champions League final in Rome is to be reached team spirit is vital, so Ronaldo cannot become a distraction. Before United's fifth-round FA Cup tie against Portsmouth in March, Ferguson told a friend he had never had a group of players who were so tight. Their reaction since the subsequent 1-0 defeat has proved that.

The credit belongs to the supreme manager of men, Ferguson. As Rooney said: 'He has been fantastic. His desire to win things after all these years is unbelievable. He's been there before and with all the experience he's got you have to listen to him. He enjoys coming in every day and passing his knowledge down to the younger players.'

Now, with a tilt at defending the European Cup on the horizon, Ferguson will begin employing that wisdom, beginning with a strong, hard look in the eyes of his players. Young and old.

[mrtoad]

Ferguson confronts Real over lack of morality and vows Ronaldo will stay· United manager cites Franco in damning attack on Spanish club

· We will have to keep winning to hold on to star forward, says Scot

· 'I did my job of getting rid of Liverpool from the top long ago'

Andy Hunter The Guardian, Saturday May 24 2008 Article history

Sir Alex Ferguson says Manchester United need to create a new European dynasty to hang on to Cristiano Ronaldo. Photograph: Alex Livesey/Getty Images

Sir Alex Ferguson launched an extraordinary attack on Real Madrid yesterday when he accused Cristiano Ronaldo's suitors of moral bankruptcy because of their connections with the fascist dictatorship of General Franco. He also warned Manchester United they must establish a new European dynasty in the next two years to keep the 42-goal winger at Old Trafford.

The second European Cup of Ferguson's career has not diminished his appetite for further conquests or, as he made quickly apparent, confrontation. Tired after a delayed return from Moscow and particularly by fresh comments from Real's president, Ramón Calderón, about Ronaldo, the United manager rounded on the Spanish giants in incendiary fashion.

The 66-year-old has rebuked Real's transfer tactics before but never to the extent of bringing the patronage they enjoyed under Franco into the argument. Calderón's insistence, however, that "slavery was abolished a long time ago; nobody can prevent a player from moving", prompted the proclaimed socialist to reveal his true feelings on the nine-time European champions.

"You get used to Madrid's performances on these things," said Ferguson. "Calderón's talking, [the coach Bernd] Schuster's talking, they use Marca as their vehicle to unsettle players. The simple fact of the matter is Ronaldo has got another four years left on his contract and Calderón makes the great statement, 'slavery was abolished many, many years ago'. Did they tell Franco that?"

Ferguson's assault on Madrid's political history did not end there. Alluding to Barcelona's suffering during the Spanish Civil War - their president, Josep Sunyol, was executed by Franco's troops in 1936 - the European champion insisted Real's behaviour paled in comparison with their Catalan rivals'.

He added: "There are clubs with great moral issues like Barcelona, they have far better moral issues than Real Madrid will ever have. They must be interested in Ronaldo but they are not saying so. Do you not think we have had interest from the big clubs in Europe about our best players? Of course. But they don't get into the nonsense that Madrid get into. They have no moral issues at all. They think that they can ride roughshod over everyone but they won't do it with us. We sold them [Ruud] Van Nistelrooy and [David] Beckham because we wanted to."

However, Ferguson insisted United would have to "work hard" to keep their prized assets. The Scot revealed he has no plans to sell any senior member of his squad this summer - "They'll all stay, I hope" - but added that only continued success in Europe would end the uncertainty over the Portugal international.

Ferguson also admitted the winger's desire to play in Spain presents a major problem for United - but not this summer. "He's 23 years of age and I think that, when he gets to 25, 26, he will have a big decision to make," he said. "That will be the biggest task when he gets to that age. That will be our biggest task. How big we are then, in terms of European championships, will resonate with him and it will be very, very important to this club. That's why I make the point of winning European trophies. We've got to do better at that."

In that respect Ferguson has taken added satisfaction from Wednesday's thrilling defeat of Chelsea. "Three has a far better ring to it," he said of United's European Cup count and the manager intends to replicate last summer's transfer policy by signing young talents from the continent such as Nani and Anderson for next season's defence of the double.

Ferguson met his assistant, Carlos Queiroz, to discuss improvements to the squad on their return to Carrington yesterday morning and "the huge demands" of the European Super Cup plus a week in Japan for the Fifa Club World Cup in December will influence their requests to the Glazer family.

Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes will feature less next term but will be given the opportunity to extend their Old Trafford careers in a coaching capacity when their glittering playing days come to an end. "They're doing their badges," said Ferguson, "and I've always thought players who've been a great credit to the club should be involved in its future. Bayern Munich have always been the model of that and we are now doing something similar with Bryan Robson and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer."

Solskjaer will run United's reserve team next season alongside Warren Joyce, who is returning from a coaching role with Royal Antwerp, with Brian McClair becoming the full-time director of the club's youth academy.

Another Portuguese problem for Ferguson concerns the future of Queiroz who, despite an ill-fated season in charge of Real Madrid, is coveted by several European clubs and his national team, with the current coach, Luiz Felipe Scolari, due to leave after the European Championship. "The Portugal job would be a big attraction but I feel Carlos is at his club," said the United manager. "After his experience with Real Madrid, which is helpful with all the nonsense we are having about Cristiano now, he is at his club. He is well respected here. I am a bit of a dinosaur in areas such as the medical side but Carlos has taken this club on to another level. He will be here a long time."

As for his own reluctance to retire being fuelled by an ambition to overhaul Liverpool's tally of 18 league championships and five European Cups, Ferguson remarked; "I did my job of getting rid of Liverpool from the top a long time ago. The club will take care of the rest."

Good on Fergie for giving Real a bit of stick, it really is becoming tedious the way that they continue to tout players that they want. For a club with a fine history and tradition, you'd expect better behaviour.

[nev]