Northern Thai Dialect

[cmsally]

I don't know about "gaw" being really as such.

For example "men gaw" is it really. Then if you answer "men" that's really or yes it is.

You can also add "gah" as a suffix.

"Men Gaw" = Isn't that right?

"Men Gah" = Yes it is.

That's true , I wonder if its written the same.

[dru2]

http://www.omniglot....iting/lanna.htm

Bedtime reading! This will give you a headache!

No - no headache. I had not seen this before and it's informative, very useful. Thanks indeed!

[dru2]

I don't know about "gaw" being really as such.

For example "men gaw" is it really. Then if you answer "men" that's really or yes it is.

You can also add "gah" as a suffix.

"Men Gaw" = Isn't that right?

"Men Gah" = Yes it is.

That's true , I wonder if its written the same.

How do you mean? Gaw and Gah can't be written the same... I can read Central Thai but not Mueang. However, I have a British friend with a Meuang wife who did an MA in Kham Mueang at Chiang Mau University and can read it well... And then there's Ajaan Witthi at CNX as well as other Thais at Rajabhat who can read it fine. Also in the UK, Germany - but not me!

[Mekong Bob]

using both Thai script and standard romanized spelling

That's where your problem will start, with the "standard" romanisation. If there were a standard, it would be the Royal Thai General System of Transcription but hardly anybody seems to be using it.

You're right about almost nobody uses that standard. One notable exception is the Thai map-makers at the Royal Thai Survey Department (under Thai Supreme Command). All their mapsheets use the standard system. Almost all vilage/town signs on the highway, and almost all street signs, now use this standard. You may recall the spelling change from "Don Muang Airport" to "Don Mueang" a few years ago. But Phatthaya is still holding on to "Pattaya." Here in Chiang Mai, I know of one highway sign on the Middle Ring Road that "never got the memo" -- "Nhong Prateep" (Nong Prathip).

[msg362]

Having "perfected" my counting in Thai, I came here and started hearing "sao baht" in the market, whats all this about, I had learned "yee sip" then they are giving it "jao" after everything they say.

Now I am starting to say sawasdee jao to everyone..probably sounds sh1t to them but making the effort anyway.

Like your 'quotation' Could be said of course 'if you are from Yorkshire, you are pretty close as you are near Lancashire'!! ( just teasing)

[cmsally]

I don't know about "gaw" being really as such.

For example "men gaw" is it really. Then if you answer "men" that's really or yes it is.

You can also add "gah" as a suffix.

"Men Gaw" = Isn't that right?

"Men Gah" = Yes it is.

That's true , I wonder if its written the same.

How do you mean? Gaw and Gah can't be written the same... I can read Central Thai but not Mueang. However, I have a British friend with a Meuang wife who did an MA in Kham Mueang at Chiang Mau University and can read it well... And then there's Ajaan Witthi at CNX as well as other Thais at Rajabhat who can read it fine. Also in the UK, Germany - but not me!

I think you are right the gaw and gah must be different, which brings us back to the really debate. So gaw is the question particle and gah must be affirming a yes? Ok time for another coffee, brain hasn't kicked in yet!

[dru2]

'So gaw is the question particle and gah must be affirming a yes?'

More or less:

Men = Is that correct? Is that right? True enough?

Gaw? = the interrogative suffix

Gah = the affirmative suffix

[hml367]

There are going to be a lot of misinformed people it seems. Just taking "men" as an example from the previous posts... I don't think it is a question at all. I am pretty certain that "men" is just indicating your agreement with something the other person has said.

"Gaw" is interrogative, as is "baw".... they are not interchangeable, though. I don't know the dialect well enough to know exactly when one is correct and the other isn't.

If you are interested in the Northern dialect, you should get into conversations with native speakers of the Northern dialect. I believe it was T Dog which mentioned going North from Chiang Mai and getting more people speaking the dialect. I think that is true....... until you get further North, when the dialect changes again.

The only reason I am making this post is to let people know they should converse with native speakers to get it right.

MSPain

[naboo]

Men Gaw makes it a question.

Men Gah seeks agreement (as in Chai Mai).

According to my native Kameung speaking girlfriend, from 180km south of Chiang Mai in Li.

[Mekong Bob]

'So gaw is the question particle and gah must be affirming a yes?'

More or less:

Men = Is that correct? Is that right? True enough?

Gaw? = the interrogative suffix

Gah = the affirmative suffix

yes, that sounds good to me too!

ก่อ (kaw, low-tone). Equivalent to ไหม (mai, rising tone) in Central Thai.

ก่า or ก่ะ (ka, low tone). Equivalent to ซิ or สิ (si, low-tone) in Central Thai.

[UdeBoCM]

Be aware that there are many dialects within a generally called kham muang. Speakers in Pusang have different expressions than in nearby Lampang, then Chiang Mai and Nan speakers will have very different words for the same thing. There are as many dialects in the North as there are cities...

[cmsally]

Around the south areas approx Sanpatong - Lamphun there are many who speak Yong.

I think as far as I remember there are also a few who still speak Tai Khoen.

Out toward Nan I think it should be more Tai Lue - they speak with a different accent, a bit of a high tone on the end. But maybe they have different dialects. It all gets a bit confusing because at certain times in history residents of Lamphun/Lampang were sent up to live around Chiang Saen & Fang to populate the areas and stop the Burmese from moving in.

But it seems there is a pretty good consensus on what is Chiang Mai dialect.

I think the OP's point was that today many Chiang Mai natives today cannot speak it and if they do mix it up with central Thai.

[PeaceBlondie]

The Tai Yong, around the south areas approx Sanpatong - Lamphun there are many who speak Yong. Yes by Jinghong

[cmsally]

The Tai Yong, around the south areas approx Sanpatong - Lamphun there are many who speak Yong. Yes by Jinghong

Apparently from Jinghong to Mong Yong, then I guess to Lamphun etc (which doesn't seem an obvious destination coming from Mong Yong)!

[Mekong Bob]

The Tai Yong, around the south areas approx Sanpatong - Lamphun there are many who speak Yong. Yes by Jinghong

Apparently from Jinghong to Mong Yong, then I guess to Lamphun etc (which doesn't seem an obvious destination coming from Mong Yong)!

Interesting to note that "Jinghong" is the Chinese-language approximation of the original Tai (Dai) name of that area, Chiang Rung (เชียงรุ่ง) - City of the Rainbow.

[Mekong Bob]

The Tai Yong, around the south areas approx Sanpatong - Lamphun there are many who speak Yong. Yes by Jinghong

Apparently from Jinghong to Mong Yong, then I guess to Lamphun etc (which doesn't seem an obvious destination coming from Mong Yong)!

Interesting to note that "Jinghong" is the Chinese-language approximation of the original Tai (Dai) name of that area, Chiang Rung (เชียงรุ่ง) - City of the Rainbow.

Where is Mong Yong? Can you show us on a map? Thanks.

[cmsally]

The Tai Yong, around the south areas approx Sanpatong - Lamphun there are many who speak Yong. Yes by Jinghong

Apparently from Jinghong to Mong Yong, then I guess to Lamphun etc (which doesn't seem an obvious destination coming from Mong Yong)!

Interesting to note that "Jinghong" is the Chinese-language approximation of the original Tai (Dai) name of that area, Chiang Rung (เชียงรุ่ง) - City of the Rainbow.

Where is Mong Yong? Can you show us on a map? Thanks.

I guess it must be here, a couple of maps seem to agree on it:

http://travelingluck.com/Asia/Myanmar/Shan+State/_1847816_M%C3%B6ng+Yawng.html

[Tywais]

Where is Mong Yong? Can you show us on a map? Thanks.

http://www.behindcity.com/explore/myanmar/shan-state/mong-yong/

Or maps.google.com > 21.17881,100.357947

[binjalin]

Having "perfected" my counting in Thai, I came here and started hearing "sao baht" in the market, whats all this about, I had learned "yee sip" then they are giving it "jao" after everything they say.

Now I am starting to say sawasdee jao to everyone..probably sounds sh1t to them but making the effort anyway.

then you will get some VERY wierd looks - swasdee jao is only for females

[binjalin]

I would be very interested in a copy of any transliterated booklet you produce. I have searched for one many times but I doubt there are enough words for a very large discourse - I have a single sheet from a local school so far.

maybe I am 'ba ho kee mee dum' but I can't find much

[cmsally]

Having "perfected" my counting in Thai, I came here and started hearing "sao baht" in the market, whats all this about, I had learned "yee sip" then they are giving it "jao" after everything they say.

Now I am starting to say sawasdee jao to everyone..probably sounds sh1t to them but making the effort anyway.

then you will get some VERY wierd looks - swasdee jao is only for females

Alter your name slightly to "bindalin" = fall head over heels

[keo]

ก่อ (kaw, low-tone). Equivalent to ไหม (mai, rising tone) in Central Thai.

ก่า or ก่ะ (ka, low tone). Equivalent to ซิ or สิ (si, low-tone) in Central Thai.

Not forgetting กา and ก๊ะ which are equivalent to เหรอ and รึ.

There's another thread in the Thai Language forum...

with a couple of useful links, lots of linguistic babble, and a bit of bickering thrown in for good measure...

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richard.wordingham/lanna/peace_corps_dictionary.pdf

http://www.eric.ed.g...FS/ED401729.pdf

[Mekong Bob]

ก่อ (kaw, low-tone). Equivalent to ไหม (mai, rising tone) in Central Thai.

ก่า or ก่ะ (ka, low tone). Equivalent to ซิ or สิ (si, low-tone) in Central Thai.

Not forgetting กา and ก๊ะ which are equivalent to เหรอ and รึ.

There's another thread in the Thai Language forum...

http://www.thaivisa....rthern dialect

with a couple of useful links, lots of linguistic babble, and a bit of bickering thrown in for good measure...

http://homepage.ntlw..._dictionary.pdf

http://www.eric.ed.g...FS/ED401729.pdf

Thanks very much for the4se leads, Keo!

I will now take this 50-page list of kam-mueang terms and phrases, re-enter all (Thai and English) in a Microsoft Word document, add romanized Thai and tones (numbered), and go from there. No linguistic babble in this version, guaranteed!

[Semper]

Is this the new Thai language forum?

[keo]

No problem Bob. That's pretty much what Richard has done (see the homepage.ntl link). The linguistic babble I was referring to is in the thread in the Thai language forum.

What I think would be really useful, is audio recordings of all the words and sentences, i.e. Bekker Thai for beginners style. I'm considering it, now that I'm living in a house full of Muang speakers, but it would be a rather time consuming project.

[keo]

No, it's the new Northern Thai Language forum.

[Tywais]

Is this the new Thai language forum?

I'm letting this one sit in the CM forum as it is rather specific with CM members and their experience. I did set up a link in the Thai Language forum to here for more input.

[VeryHansumMan]

Lum Lum = Tastes good

oo-wee = great granparents

[cmsally]

One of my favourite spring cleaning phrases = yut kao jok

=stuff it in the corner

[binjalin]

Having "perfected" my counting in Thai, I came here and started hearing "sao baht" in the market, whats all this about, I had learned "yee sip" then they are giving it "jao" after everything they say.

Now I am starting to say sawasdee jao to everyone..probably sounds sh1t to them but making the effort anyway.

then you will get some VERY wierd looks - swasdee jao is only for females

Alter your name slightly to "bindalin" = fall head over heels

Binjalin is Lanna for "opposite"

Banga Dang is "fall down"