Libyan Authorities Detain Four Icc Staff After Meeting Saif Gaddafi

[Colin Yai]

But Assad is murdering his people wholesale, Mugabe murdered his people wholesale, there was wholesale slaughter in Rwanda on a par with the holocaust. You will be telling me next we went in to Iraq because Saddam killed some of his own people.

Just to be boring can I throw in a few more precise details...

Rwanda's slaughter of Tutsis Apr-Jul 1994 probably killed 0.5-1.0million people (an horrendous 20% of the population). It's the DRC that has seen 4-5 million deaths and still continuing. Genocide yes, comparable to the Holocaust.....?

Mugabe's worst crime was the Gukurahundi in Matabeleland in 1983-84 when the 5th Brigade killed around 20,000 Ndebele. I am no fan of Mugabe's to put it mildly and his worst crime has been to destroy the economy and healthcare systems of his country which has dramatically increased mortality rates but wholesale slaughter is a bit of a stretch. Being cynical you could argue that Mugabe is more notorious than what has happened in the DRC because there are no white farmers/settlers in the latter.

The old canard about the west only intervening in countries with energy resources is oft repeated but not totally accurate. For instance in the last 30 years:

Sierra Leone (UK), Ivory Coast (France), Bosnia (NATO), Kosovo (NATO), Grenada (USA), Panama (USA), Haiti (USA), Lebanon (USA, France, UK), Afghanistan (NATO) [cue it's all about pipelines...], Somalia (USA) etc etc

What do they all share in common? A serious lack of commercially viable energy resources. (OK, there is coal in Afghan).

The motivations behind intervention are wide-ranging and while it's easy to be cynical and Madsen about it all, it doesn't really stack up with reality. Is it all about humanitarianism...obviously not. Is it all about oil etc....apparently not. People have always profited from conflict, nothing new or controversial there.

Only Coal Folium?, both China and India are investing billions in the vast deposits of Copper and Iron ore in Afghanistan , OK they are not energy resources but very important to any Country's Economy Edited June 12, 2012 by Colin Yai

[folium]

Only Coal Folium?, both China and India are investing billions in the vast deposits of Copper and Iron ore in Afghanistan

Copper & iron ore are not yet energy resources!!

[Colin Yai]

Only Coal Folium?, both China and India are investing billions in the vast deposits of Copper and Iron ore in Afghanistan

Copper & iron ore are not yet energy resources!!

Bit too fast on the draw there folium ,I edited my post seconds after I posted it

[softgeorge]

Nine Network News

Subjects: Detention of Melinda Taylor in Libya.

Transcript, E&OE

11 June 2012

AMELIA ADAMS: The Prime Minister has demanded that Libya immediately release an Australian lawyer accused of being a spy. Melinda Taylor was arrested with three other International Criminal Court colleagues on Thursday, while representing the son of the late former leader Colonel Gaddafi. And for the latest on Australian efforts to help free Melinda Taylor we're joined now by Acting Foreign Minister Dr Craig Emerson in our Canberra studio. Dr Emerson, good afternoon to you.

CRAIG EMERSON: Good afternoon Amelia.

ADAMS: Just bring us up to date. What progress has been made today?

EMERSON: The Foreign Minister Bob Carr has had two conversations now with the Libya authorities — one with the Deputy Foreign Minister Minister Muhamed Aziz. We are demanding the immediate release of Melinda Taylor. She has been detained by the authorities in Libya. She is a member of a four-person team representing the International Criminal Court. And we believe she needs to be able to discharge her responsibilities without being detained. So we are demanding her immediate release.

ADAMS: Dr Emerson, can you just explain: Ms Taylor was representing the late Colonel Gaddafi's son …

EMERSON: That's right.

ADAMS:… but she's been accused of being a spy. What's the basis for that accusation? And how concerning is it?

EMERSON: Well, the suggestion is that Melinda Taylor handed over sensitive documents. She is, after all, involved in the defence of Colonel Gaddafi's son. But that seems to be what has riled the Libya authorities. She's doing her job; she's there on behalf of the International Criminal Court. There is a team from the International Criminal Court going to Libya. We also have our Ambassador-Designate David Ritchie headed to Libya. And what we want to see is that immediate release. Because Melinda Taylor is doing her job; it's her responsibility in the justice system to provide defence for anyone, including Muammar Gaddafi's son.

ADAMS: Okay. You mentioned there our Ambassador-Designate on the way. How soon is he expected to arrive? And what more can Bob Carr do to free Ms Taylor?

EMERSON: David Ritchie has been given the necessary entry permits, a visa. Bob Carr will continue to make telephone call representations. He's planning another one within the next little while. Melinda Taylor is not actually in a jail, we are told; she's under house arrest. We're also assured she and the others are safe and well. But we do want the authorities to release her immediately.

ADAMS: Good to hear she's safe and well, at least. Dr Emerson, we'll have to leave it there. Thank you very much for your time.

EMERSON: Okay. Thanks very much, Amelia.

[GentlemanJim]

Meanwhile, yesterday the British Ambassador to Libya's convoy was hit by an RPG, two close protection team members were injured.

http://www.reuters.c...E85A0TV20120611

Libya has the potential of turning in to another Iraq. Early days yet, but watch this space.

Edited June 12, 2012 by GentlemanJim

[chooka]

The Australian Foreign Minister, Bob Carr says that these people have diplomatic ammunity so what right do the libyans have to imprison them without charge? The libyans called on the international community to help them in thier fight with the former government Is this is how they say thank you, by biting the hand that fed them.

If the international community has any sense it will stay well out of the conflict in Syria let them destroy each other because if we help, in the end they will turn on us as Libya has done.

[Baloo22]

......

If the international community has any sense it will stay well out of the conflict in Syria let them destroy each other because if we help, in the end they will turn on us as Libya has done.

You are 100% right on the mark! Western intervention in Syria will end up just like our peacekeeping efforts in Lebanon in the 1980s. Remember the bombings of U.S. and French peacekeepers? In that part of the world; "Peacekeeper" is simply another word for "target". We need to stay out of it, stay out of it, and stay out of it !!!

[softgeorge]

The Australian media report today that they are being detained for 45 days for espionage (which has the death penalty) and they may be charged within the 45 days. The ICC has sent another team of lawyers to represent these lawyers but they are however along with consular staff having difficulties getting access to these people.

I hope the ICC has another standby team of lawyers ready to be sent to represent the latest team sent.

Melinda Taylor pictured in her office at the ICC, January 2010. Picture: Australian Lawyers Weekly / Source: Supplied

Edited June 13, 2012 by softgeorge

[Colin Yai]

The Australian Foreign Minister, Bob Carr says that these people have diplomatic ammunity so what right do the libyans have to imprison them without charge? The libyans called on the international community to help them in thier fight with the former government Is this is how they say thank you, by biting the hand that fed them.

If the international community has any sense it will stay well out of the conflict in Syria let them destroy each other because if we help, in the end they will turn on us as Libya has done.

Reading through all the posts on the subject of the Syrian conflict it would appear almost all given the facts of the matter seem to agree with your point of view , me included

[GentlemanJim]

The Germans have called for immediate release of the ICC staff, but the British and French seem to be embarrassingly quiet. It appears the ICC staff have been taken from 'house' arrest to prison now. This is no longer the act of some rebel 'rebels'! The Libyan Foreign Ministry has asked the ICC to drop the diplomatic immunity of the ICC members so that it can 'investigate them'. This is no longer time for diplomatic chat over tea and biscuits.

It would be nice to get some gunships in to support say 100-200 well armed troops inserted by Chinook Helicopter, to go and advise the prison staff, that they let the four go or there will be consequences. The ICC staff need to be extracted safely, and then cruise missiles fired or bombs dropped to completely flatten the Government headquarters in Tripoli. We could be generous and give them 30 mins to evacuate the building.

[folium]

The Germans have called for immediate release of the ICC staff, but the British and French seem to be embarrassingly quiet. It appears the ICC staff have been taken from 'house' arrest to prison now. This is no longer the act of some rebel 'rebels'! The Libyan Foreign Ministry has asked the ICC to drop the diplomatic immunity of the ICC members so that it can 'investigate them'. This is no longer time for diplomatic chat over tea and biscuits.

It would be nice to get some gunships in to support say 100-200 well armed troops inserted by Chinook Helicopter, to go and advise the prison staff, that they let the four go or there will be consequences. The ICC staff need to be extracted safely, and then cruise missiles fired or bombs dropped to completely flatten the Government headquarters in Tripoli. We could be generous and give them 30 mins to evacuate the building.

When did you leave the Diplomatic Service?!

Glad to hear the Germans are making noises as they are unlikely to do anything else apart from maybe write a cheque. If the French and Brits are being quiet it's probably because they are getting sorted out as these 2 nations have a distinct way of doing business when required and it doesn't need shouting about....

[GentlemanJim]

The Germans have called for immediate release of the ICC staff, but the British and French seem to be embarrassingly quiet. It appears the ICC staff have been taken from 'house' arrest to prison now. This is no longer the act of some rebel 'rebels'! The Libyan Foreign Ministry has asked the ICC to drop the diplomatic immunity of the ICC members so that it can 'investigate them'. This is no longer time for diplomatic chat over tea and biscuits.

It would be nice to get some gunships in to support say 100-200 well armed troops inserted by Chinook Helicopter, to go and advise the prison staff, that they let the four go or there will be consequences. The ICC staff need to be extracted safely, and then cruise missiles fired or bombs dropped to completely flatten the Government headquarters in Tripoli. We could be generous and give them 30 mins to evacuate the building.

When did you leave the Diplomatic Service?!

Glad to hear the Germans are making noises as they are unlikely to do anything else apart from maybe write a cheque. If the French and Brits are being quiet it's probably because they are getting sorted out as these 2 nations have a distinct way of doing business when required and it doesn't need shouting about....

I think when a 'Goverment' fail to respect Diplomatic Immunity, but realise the folks have it as they ask the ICC to rescind it, the time for Diplomacy is over. The Libyan Government need a full smack in the face to learn what both 'Thanks' and belonging to the International community means.

Re being all quiet, also probably because the French and British were instrumental in getting this shower of sh*ts in to power.

[chooka]

The Germans have called for immediate release of the ICC staff, but the British and French seem to be embarrassingly quiet. It appears the ICC staff have been taken from 'house' arrest to prison now. This is no longer the act of some rebel 'rebels'! The Libyan Foreign Ministry has asked the ICC to drop the diplomatic immunity of the ICC members so that it can 'investigate them'. This is no longer time for diplomatic chat over tea and biscuits.

It would be nice to get some gunships in to support say 100-200 well armed troops inserted by Chinook Helicopter, to go and advise the prison staff, that they let the four go or there will be consequences. The ICC staff need to be extracted safely, and then cruise missiles fired or bombs dropped to completely flatten the Government headquarters in Tripoli. We could be generous and give them 30 mins to evacuate the building.

When did you leave the Diplomatic Service?!

Glad to hear the Germans are making noises as they are unlikely to do anything else apart from maybe write a cheque. If the French and Brits are being quiet it's probably because they are getting sorted out as these 2 nations have a distinct way of doing business when required and it doesn't need shouting about....

The four people involved are Australian, Lebonese, Russian and Spanish. Australian consular svc's are shared through the British Embassy and in all fairness to our pommie friends they have been active assisting Australia but allowing the Australian foreign Minister Bob CARR to be the lead guy.

Edited June 13, 2012 by chooka

[Steely Dan]

If the French and Brits are being quiet it's probably because they are getting sorted out as these 2 nations have a distinct way of doing business when required and it doesn't need shouting about....

The French and British are probably not shouting out of acute embarrassment, what with being instrumental in replacing a neutered despot with Islam & Co whilst ludicrously saying it was a good idea. Ahem, let the democracy begin.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Steely Dan

[Exsexyman]

If the French and Brits are being quiet it's probably because they are getting sorted out as these 2 nations have a distinct way of doing business when required and it doesn't need shouting about....

The French and British are probably not shouting out of acute embarrassment, what with being instrumental in replacing a neutered despot with Islam & Co whilst ludicrously saying it was a good idea. Ahem, let the democracy begin.

Great post, which sums up the situation perfectly.

[GentlemanJim]

The Germans have called for immediate release of the ICC staff, but the British and French seem to be embarrassingly quiet. It appears the ICC staff have been taken from 'house' arrest to prison now. This is no longer the act of some rebel 'rebels'! The Libyan Foreign Ministry has asked the ICC to drop the diplomatic immunity of the ICC members so that it can 'investigate them'. This is no longer time for diplomatic chat over tea and biscuits.

It would be nice to get some gunships in to support say 100-200 well armed troops inserted by Chinook Helicopter, to go and advise the prison staff, that they let the four go or there will be consequences. The ICC staff need to be extracted safely, and then cruise missiles fired or bombs dropped to completely flatten the Government headquarters in Tripoli. We could be generous and give them 30 mins to evacuate the building.

When did you leave the Diplomatic Service?!

Glad to hear the Germans are making noises as they are unlikely to do anything else apart from maybe write a cheque. If the French and Brits are being quiet it's probably because they are getting sorted out as these 2 nations have a distinct way of doing business when required and it doesn't need shouting about....

The four people involved are Australian, Lebonese, Russian and Spanish. Australian consular svc's are shared through the British Embassy and in all fairness to our pommie friends they have been active assisting Australia but allowing the Australian foreign Minister Bob CARR to be the lead guy.

I apologise if I was unclear, just to clarify, I personally think the British Consular office is one of the best there is if you get in trouble in most places in the world. I am having more of a dig much higher up at Foreign Secretary level. I am unsure I have heard of ICC staff being taken hostage before, by the Government they are trying to assist. It is such a Diplomatic faux pas, and I think so serious, that really I would have thought the Major players involved in the 'restructure' of Libya, would have had some strong words of 'disappointment' concerning the current situation. The current regime in Libya is in its childhood as far as world politics go and I don't think time on the naughty step will do here, they need a dam_n good clip around the ear.

[softgeorge]

Blackmailing The ICC: Melinda Taylor Released In Exchange For Saif Gaddafi’s Friend

Mohammed Harizi believes Melinda Taylor knows the location of Saif Qaddafi’s right hand man.

The NTC’s official spokesman has insisted that detained International Criminal Court (ICC) lawyer Melinda Taylor “will be free” if she divulges the location of Saif Qaddafi’s right-hand man, Mohammed Ismail.

In a remarkable exchange with ABC reporter Michael Vincent, Mohammed Harizi also claimed that Taylor was overheard telling Saif “you are not guilty” and was found to be in possession of GPS coordinates written by Ismail.

The authenticity of this claim has not been verified and it is also not clear to what location the alleged coordinates referred.

http://vivalibya.wor...addafis-friend/

Edited June 13, 2012 by Scott
Edited for fair use policy

[chooka]

Blackmailing The ICC: Melinda Taylor Released In Exchange For Saif Gaddafi’s Friend

Mohammed Harizi believes Melinda Taylor knows the location of Saif Qaddafi’s right hand man.

The NTC’s official spokesman has insisted that detained International Criminal Court (ICC) lawyer Melinda Taylor “will be free” if she divulges the location of Saif Qaddafi’s right-hand man, Mohammed Ismail.

In a remarkable exchange with ABC reporter Michael Vincent, Mohammed Harizi also claimed that Taylor was overheard telling Saif “you are not guilty” and was found to be in possession of GPS coordinates written by Ismail.

The authenticity of this claim has not been verified and it is also not clear to what location the alleged coordinates referred.

http://vivalibya.wor...addafis-friend/

Interesting post and probably the real reason behind the kidnappings

[GentlemanJim]

Blackmailing The ICC: Melinda Taylor Released In Exchange For Saif Gaddafi’s Friend

Mohammed Harizi believes Melinda Taylor knows the location of Saif Qaddafi’s right hand man.

The NTC’s official spokesman has insisted that detained International Criminal Court (ICC) lawyer Melinda Taylor “will be free” if she divulges the location of Saif Qaddafi’s right-hand man, Mohammed Ismail.

In a remarkable exchange with ABC reporter Michael Vincent, Mohammed Harizi also claimed that Taylor was overheard telling Saif “you are not guilty” and was found to be in possession of GPS coordinates written by Ismail.

The authenticity of this claim has not been verified and it is also not clear to what location the alleged coordinates referred.

http://vivalibya.wor...addafis-friend/

Interesting post and probably the real reason behind the kidnappings

I think you are right, but isn't it just extraordinary? If the Libyans suspected the lawyer knew the whereabouts of Ismail then all they had to do was fit all the interview rooms and Gadaffi Jnr's cell with state of the art recording technology and the info would have come out. There is no way the Lawyer is going to say anything at the moment. I hope all 4 ICC officials are aware that if the Libyans push this then the international community will come down on them like a ton of horse sh*t, and there will be a few more prosecutions at the Hague.

[chooka]

Blackmailing The ICC: Melinda Taylor Released In Exchange For Saif Gaddafi’s Friend

Mohammed Harizi believes Melinda Taylor knows the location of Saif Qaddafi’s right hand man.

The NTC’s official spokesman has insisted that detained International Criminal Court (ICC) lawyer Melinda Taylor “will be free” if she divulges the location of Saif Qaddafi’s right-hand man, Mohammed Ismail.

In a remarkable exchange with ABC reporter Michael Vincent, Mohammed Harizi also claimed that Taylor was overheard telling Saif “you are not guilty” and was found to be in possession of GPS coordinates written by Ismail.

The authenticity of this claim has not been verified and it is also not clear to what location the alleged coordinates referred.

http://vivalibya.wor...addafis-friend/

Interesting post and probably the real reason behind the kidnappings

I think you are right, but isn't it just extraordinary? If the Libyans suspected the lawyer knew the whereabouts of Ismail then all they had to do was fit all the interview rooms and Gadaffi Jnr's cell with state of the art recording technology and the info would have come out. There is no way the Lawyer is going to say anything at the moment. I hope all 4 ICC officials are aware that if the Libyans push this then the international community will come down on them like a ton of horse sh*t, and there will be a few more prosecutions at the Hague.

I think the Libyans are trying to force her to breach lawyer/client confidentiality (In the law of evidence, a client's privilege to refuse to disclose, and to prevent any other person from disclosing, confidential communications between the client and his/her lawyer. The information belongs to the client not the lawyer).

By detaining the lawyer and her staff the Libyans are denying the client access to legal representation of his choice. The libyans would be surfing that very fine line of "Pervert the course of justice." I am sure when this get to court all these actions of the Libyans will not be looked upon favourably and will be used in the defence case.

If the Libyans had any common sense they would have let the case against gadaffi run it's course in the ICC and at the conclusion go through the correct avenues and apply to the ICC to order that undisclosed information then be released.

[softgeorge]

Australia's ambassador-designate to Libya has demanded authorities allow detained lawyer Melinda Taylor to call her parents in Brisbane.

Overnight David Ritchie held a series of meetings with Libyan government representatives in a bid to secure the release of Ms Taylor, who is being held on suspicion of spying.

The Federal Government has called on Libya to work through the ICC's protocols to resolve its concerns, rather than continuing to detain individuals.

But Libya says it will not tolerate threats to its national security and says it is not a signatory to the Rome Statute which established the ICC.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-14/libyan-ambassador-demands-melinda-taylor-be-let-call-parents/4069898

[softgeorge]

Blackmailing The ICC: Melinda Taylor Released In Exchange For Saif Gaddafi’s Friend

Mohammed Harizi believes Melinda Taylor knows the location of Saif Qaddafi’s right hand man.

The NTC’s official spokesman has insisted that detained International Criminal Court (ICC) lawyer Melinda Taylor “will be free” if she divulges the location of Saif Qaddafi’s right-hand man, Mohammed Ismail.

In a remarkable exchange with ABC reporter Michael Vincent, Mohammed Harizi also claimed that Taylor was overheard telling Saif “you are not guilty” and was found to be in possession of GPS coordinates written by Ismail.

The authenticity of this claim has not been verified and it is also not clear to what location the alleged coordinates referred.

http://vivalibya.wor...addafis-friend/

Interesting post and probably the real reason behind the kidnappings

I think you are right, but isn't it just extraordinary? If the Libyans suspected the lawyer knew the whereabouts of Ismail then all they had to do was fit all the interview rooms and Gadaffi Jnr's cell with state of the art recording technology and the info would have come out. There is no way the Lawyer is going to say anything at the moment. I hope all 4 ICC officials are aware that if the Libyans push this then the international community will come down on them like a ton of horse sh*t, and there will be a few more prosecutions at the Hague.

I think the Libyans are trying to force her to breach lawyer/client confidentiality (In the law of evidence, a client's privilege to refuse to disclose, and to prevent any other person from disclosing, confidential communications between the client and his/her lawyer. The information belongs to the client not the lawyer).

By detaining the lawyer and her staff the Libyans are denying the client access to legal representation of his choice. The libyans would be surfing that very fine line of "Pervert the course of justice." I am sure when this get to court all these actions of the Libyans will not be looked upon favourably and will be used in the defence case.

If the Libyans had any common sense they would have let the case against gadaffi run it's course in the ICC and at the conclusion go through the correct avenues and apply to the ICC to order that undisclosed information then be released.

I don't think that will happen and the libyans will do as they please which means ignoring the immunity that these people have because as they say "Libya is not a signatory to the Rome Statute which established the ICC."

Edited June 14, 2012 by softgeorge