Canadian Sisters Died Of 'Food Poisoning' In Thailand Hotel

[guyinthailand]

^{The bleeding of gums associated with the poisoning refers to when the subject brushes his/her teeth and there is bleeding. If there had been reported nosebleeding, then perhaps warfarin might be implicated.}

Ridiculous. Someone poisoned with warfarin doesn't need to brush their teeth to bleed! hahahahah

You're thinking of a platelet disorder, or a coagulopathy disorder. Besides, even if you were right (which you aren't) don't you think they brushed their teeth?

Warfarin induces bleeds by virtue of the fact that it intereferes with Vitamin K, a necessary component of the coagulation system.

Warfarin doesn't need a toothbrush!

Edited June 18, 2012 by guyinthailand

[stevenl]

All the needless speculation, coverup theories and other cynical nonsense here on this and the previous thread make me so very sad for the people here on TV.

Time will show that either the posters on TV are a sad lot , or possess astute powers of deduction......

No, because even if the result were to be e.g. pufferfish poisoning they would never accept that and stick to all kinds of other theories.

Puffer fish poisoning would still be 2nd murder (depravity or conscious indifference) or mamslaughter:criminally negligent homicide and should warrant comprehensive toxicology/pathology and a criminal investigation. I guess murder and protecting others from same fate not a Thai priority if puffer fish poisoning which should be treated same as intentional poisining by arsenic/cyanide from a criminal investigation stand point.

Please quote only if you are referring to a post. Your text here has no connection whatsoever with the posts above.

[Maejo Man]

Then we have this little gem from the paper we can't mention....

Dr Komgrib said he and Phi Phi hospital director Duangporn Paothong had jointly examined the dead bodies of the tourists and found they had suffered no physical injuries. It was too soon to pinpoint the cause of the deaths, he said, adding that bleeding gums and bleeding under the skin were not always linked to poisoning.

Such symptoms are usually found on diseased people, the doctor said.

So from this we presume that they entered the country terminally ill, and decided to die simultaneously on Phi Phi.

The poor family has to deal with this sort of ineptitude, which makes me very sad.

[stevenl]

Pufferfish poison can quickly lead to paralysis, and I'm sure there are more poisons found in food that can have the same effect. So food poisoning can be a very reasonable explanation.

Bleeding gums and bruising are NOT symptoms of Pufferfish. 'Regular' food poisoning can NOT explain bleeding gums and bruising.

It wasn't 'regular' food poisoning.

If you react to my post please react to what was written, not what you think was written.

[stevenl]

Have you actually not bothered to read any of the above posts?

I would presume not, because the bickering between you and 1-2 other forum members is not worth reading, just bickering up and down without any contents.

[Sayonarax]

CSI: TV.com (Don't worry our science teams fake too.)

[carra]

I think what people need to realise, taking aside the obvious incompetence of the RTP, is the issue of face. they are asked a question by a reporter and rather than look as though they don't know something they will just come up with an answer, which is then published and people take as gospel.

Rather than say it is under investigation they come up with what they think is plausible.

[dingdang]

Rather than say it is under investigation they come up with what they think is plausible.

other police forces/medicals also make comments and say what "they think is plausible", while they should stick to the facts only...

but why is it, that the whole world laughs or is plain shocked by what the thai police and even thai doctors say they "think is plausible"?

e.g. "ibuprofen", "heart attack at the same time" (chiang mai case)... and there was much much more...

Edited June 18, 2012 by dingdang

[guyinthailand]

Such symptoms are usually found on diseased people, the doctor said.

The Thais are going to spin this till our heads are dizzy. Too bad for them bleeding gums don't happen regulary in 'diseased people'. There are only a handful of things that can cause it. And food poisoning isn't on the list.

Let them prove it wasn't warfarin. Let them prove the women didn't die from rat poison.

Edited June 18, 2012 by guyinthailand

[ttelise]

I think what people need to realise, taking aside the obvious incompetence of the RTP, is the issue of face. they are asked a question by a reporter and rather than look as though they don't know something they will just come up with an answer, which is then published and people take as gospel.

Rather than say it is under investigation they come up with what they think is plausible.

Totally, my concern is once they say food poisoning, they will do just about anything to ensure that no one contradicts.

[Justaword]

Thailand

Pufferfish, called pakpao in Thailand, are usually consumed by mistake. They are often cheaper than other fish, and because they contain inconsistent levels of toxins between fish and season, there is little awareness or monitoring of the danger. Consumers are regularly hospitalized and some even die from the poisoning.

Source: http://en.wikipedia..../Tetraodontidae

But does this posion cause cyanosis ?....dont think it does....something like cynanide does..

I does: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrodotoxin#symptoms_and_treatment

As the paralysis and aphonia would explain why they didn't seek for help.

And although epilepsy-like convulsions could lead to blood in the mouth due to tongue biting, it still doesn't explain skin lesions.

I am surprised nobody mentioned yet meningitis ("perfect" symptoms), leptospirosis or......whatever, possibilities are almost endless, and only a proper autopsy and full toxicology test can lead to an explanation.

The bottom line is that speculations are only speculations. And I agree with the posters who fustigate TV CSI experts.

The "facts" people are trying to interpret are still changing, depending who is quoted, who translated it, etc etc.

Start of a cover-up ? Looks like. I can see in the new headline an effort to discharge the hotel from any responsibility.

Link to Chiang Mai events or Laleena guesthouse ? Just a supposition which is not backed up by any fact so far. Similarities, yes. As per any case of poisoning....

"poisoning", "food poisoning", or "poisoning by food contaminated by a chemical" ? Don't forget that all headlines here are often poorly reported or translated....

In the meanwhile, RIP to the victims and sincere condolences to the family....

[carra]

I think what people need to realise, taking aside the obvious incompetence of the RTP, is the issue of face. they are asked a question by a reporter and rather than look as though they don't know something they will just come up with an answer, which is then published and people take as gospel.

Rather than say it is under investigation they come up with what they think is plausible.

Totally, my concern is once they say food poisoning, they will do just about anything to ensure that no one contradicts.

Well we can't have them looking silly after they have said this can we? imagine the loss of face for the police concerned. Never mind about finding out the truth.

You are totally correct,

[cobra]

This still has all the hallmarks of simple asphyxiation,

(blue nails, lips, bleeding from extreme high blood pressure from adrenalin, …

Though no physical trauma may be evident, a plastic bag over the head would be quite sufficient.

Death from food poisoning in such a short period is unlikely, except for maybe puffer fish toxicity or other.

Unfortunately as with most things in the LOS, we'll probably never know.

RIP

Edited June 18, 2012 by cobra

[dingdang]

Though no physical trauma may be evident, a plastic bag over the head would be quite sufficient.

before or after all the vomitting?

[swillowbee]

... the story is now being reported from the US on Fox News ... http://www.foxnews.c...test=latestnews ... it references the other similarly suspicious tourist deaths in Thailand and the unconvincing Royal Thai Police's reports.

"Unconvincing Royal Thai Police"......

I think you hit the nail on the head there pal!

-mel.

.

... the story was published last night in the Huffington Post and as a lead article on AOL Online ... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/17/noemi-belanger-audrey-belanger-dead_n_1603548.html?ncid=webmail2 ... Thailand is earning it's hard won reputation.

... the girl's family must be suffering horribly and in no frame of mind to be demanding the truth ... the Canadian Embassy should take now the initiative to assure an independent post-mortem is conduicted by a non-Thai laboratory ... delay will only make this impossible as evidence is accidentally lost any one of the Thai agencies who will be involved.

... these tragic deaths have ample precedents in Thailand to know where the Thai authorities will take this ... other families whose loved ones similarly die here under 'indeterminate circumstances' in Thailand will attest to that.

[sportsman69]

With the moderators permission as I'm not sure about other news sites other than P.W.

The latest news on this matter that I have seen is Monday 18 June, 09:58 from the Phuket News is that the bodies are being sent to the Police Forensic Science Institution in BBK today for autopsy, the director of Krabi Hospital told Thai Media.

If true, this is the first accurate, sensible piece of news about this case of late.

With what is said in posts #'s 264, 269, and 273, I think we should all zip our lips here on this forum and wait for what we can only assume will be the exact cause of death as determined by autopsy. if an eyewitness's account as reported elsewhere , that the scene had been cleaned and disinfected awaiting the arrival of the next occupants, without forensic inspection, is indeed true, It is a shame and only gives credence to the suggestion that facts will be hidden.

All the speculation that is being made here on poisons, cause of death, motives are just that, pure speculation and give no real help or solace to anybody, least of all the grieving parents.

If anybody wants to do something constructive with their time, talk to your friends both here and from home, put it on Facebook, Twitter, Trip Advisor, make it go viral, talk to your local Hon. Consul, suggest a travel ban or at least a severe travel warning issued by their respective Embassy's to Phi Phi at least until the case comes to a satisfactory conclusion.

There is more to do than argue on the forum with fellow members irrespective of your own theories.

Audrey and Noemi, please, Rest in Peace.

Edited June 18, 2012 by sportsman69

[lannarebirth]

^{The bleeding of gums associated with the poisoning refers to when the subject brushes his/her teeth and there is bleeding. If there had been reported nosebleeding, then perhaps warfarin might be implicated.}

Ridiculous. Someone poisoned with warfarin doesn't need to brush their teeth to bleed! hahahahah

You're thinking of a platelet disorder, or a coagulopathy disorder. Besides, even if you were right (which you aren't) don't you think they brushed their teeth?

Warfarin induces bleeds by virtue of the fact that it intereferes with Vitamin K, a necessary component of the coagulation system.

Warfarin doesn't need a toothbrush!

His politics are iffy but I wouldn't disagree with gkid on matters of human pathology. I believe he has a strong background in this very thing.

[mommysboy]

We'll probably never know for sure.

It sounds very similar to what happened in Chiang Mai not so long ago, toxins on the bed sheets.

There will be an enqury and some form of resolution, but no one will be punished, let alone go to prison. Still, at least the Thai apologists will be satisfied.

But unless this is a bizarre suicide pact, this is pure bloody murder, whether deliberate or by the grossest of gross negligence, and to my mind whoever is involved has lost the right to live, as these people died in a most horrific way.

[samsiam]

I do hope the bodies are taken back to Canada for an autopsy regardless.

I hope Drummond gets his bulldog teeth into it.

In fact...if anyone has the skills to send Drummonds contact details to the family....highly recommended.

Edited June 18, 2012 by samsiam

[tourleadersi]

I am the parent of two boys. Seeing video of two body bags on stretchers being carried off of the boat made me shudder. The horror of the thought is complete.

Doesn't matter what happens now, they have lost their little girls and nothing will ever ease the pain. Someone changed their nappies for years, sat up late when they were sick, helped them with their homework, watched them graduate school. All is lost.

Analysis here by wannabe CSI's will hurt them to read, but will be irrelevant when compared to the utter devastation they must be feeling right now. If it were me I don't know that I would even want answers, my children are gone before me, answers wont change that, or bring any comfort at all.

[dingdang]

i believe, it is easier for parents to live with the fact, when they know what happened. the brutal details of a crime are not needed, but the situation their children were in, what happened, who did it, shedding some light on the tragedy.

the public also has an interest to find the killer/find out the circumstances of a crime or accident, to make sure, it won't happen again or that things like perhaps a gross negligence may become less likely, or that they AT LEAST are FOLLOWED UP by someone.

people are dieing like the rats, and nobody cares?

this can't be explained away with "loosing face".

Edited June 18, 2012 by dingdang

[GentlemanJim]

Such symptoms are usually found on diseased people, the doctor said.

The Thais are going to spin this till our heads are dizzy. Too bad for them bleeding gums don't happen regulary in 'diseased people'. There are only a handful of things that can cause it. And food poisoning isn't on the list.

Let them prove it wasn't warfarin. Let them prove the women didn't die from rat poison.

I think I speak from a point of confidence that the only one who is going to spin this until our heads are crazy....is you. As previously stated, your obtuse, egotistical approach does nothing to make people even want to consider your posts (and your reply to me in that post proved everything). Take a step back and try and be a little more considerate to your fellow posters. Warfarin is NOT the only chemical that will cause the bleeding gums symptom that you have become obsessed with, and indeed if warfarin was to be used in such a concentration to cause death so quickly - perhaps a super warfarin, then it is highly likely the victim would bleed from the nose and eyes as well. You also seem to be belittling competent people that suggested Arsenic, Arsenic is a major compound in many many brands of rat poison and is also manufactured in a liquid or powdered form that is absorbed through the skin rapidly and is 60 times more toxic than ordinary elemental 'Arsenic'.

Perhaps next time you are near Khausan Road you can get them to make you up a PhD in Wikipedia Studies.

Meanwhile, back to ordinary folk, is it worth us sending emails to the Canadian Consulate to encourage an independent Path report, although I don't think an embassy will become involved in such a thing.

[Lite Beer]

Thailand vows fast probe into Canadian deaths

Bangkok, June 18, 2012 (AFP) - Thai police on Monday promised a swift investigation into the deaths of two Canadian sisters found in their hotel room on a popular resort island.

The bodies of Audrey and Noemi Belanger, aged 20 and 26, from Quebec province, were found Friday by hotel staff on Phi Phi island in the Andaman Sea, showing signs of having suffered an extreme toxic reaction.

Police said on Sunday that "serious food poisoning" might have been to blame, but the authorities stressed that it was too early to pinpoint the cause of the deaths.

"We will send all evidence to Bangkok's forensic department this afternoon and ask them to process it quickly to establish what killed them," said Krabi province police chief Jamroon Reunrom.

"As well as the police forensic team, a team from the health ministry's department of disease control also came to help, but we could not say right now what is the cause of the deaths," he added.

"I prefer to wait for formal results from the police forensic team in Bangkok."

Officials said they found vomit in the room and blood on the sisters' lips and gums, while their fingernails and toenails were blue.

They said there was no indication of a violent struggle inside the room at the Palm Residence Hotel. The hotel manager declined to speak to AFP.

Phi Phi island is one of Thailand's top tourist destinations, made famous by the 2000 film The Beach starring Leonardo DiCaprio.

Thailand, which has cultivated an image as the "Land of Smiles", is a tourist magnet, but visitor deaths are not uncommon.

Two tourists, a Norwegian and an American, fell ill and died on Phi Phi in 2009 but the exact cause has not been established.

Uncertainly also remains over six deaths -- including four in a single hotel -- in northern Chiang Mai last year. Authorities said poisoning by pesticides or other chemicals was the likely cause of most of those fatalities.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2012-06-18

[Jayman]

^^^^

I'm glad to see this is getting more serious attention in Thailand. I hope that the results are known soon and given to the public as well as action is taken to keep this from happening again in the future.

This is quite a sad and tragic event and my deepest condolences to the families of all that have lost loved ones while visiting the LOS.

[stevenl]

""We will send all evidence to Bangkok's forensic department this afternoon and ask them to process it quickly to establish what killed them," said Krabi province police chief Jamroon Reunrom.

"As well as the police forensic team, a team from the health ministry's department of disease control also came to help, but we could not say right now what is the cause of the deaths," he added.

"I prefer to wait for formal results from the police forensic team in Bangkok.""

Both very wise decisions.

[samsiam]

I am the parent of two boys. Seeing video of two body bags on stretchers being carried off of the boat made me shudder. The horror of the thought is complete.

Doesn't matter what happens now, they have lost their little girls and nothing will ever ease the pain. Someone changed their nappies for years, sat up late when they were sick, helped them with their homework, watched them graduate school. All is lost.

Analysis here by wannabe CSI's will hurt them to read, but will be irrelevant when compared to the utter devastation they must be feeling right now. If it were me I don't know that I would even want answers, my children are gone before me, answers wont change that, or bring any comfort at all.

You/they may not think they want it now....but they will later on and later on might be too late when all done and gone.

I speak from relevant experience.

[kohphangan]

RIP Audrey and Noemi ... My condolences to the family,friends and to anyone who's world has been rocked by this very sad story.

I have been trying to upload two photo's size 3.15 and 3.25 for 35mins with no joy.... But feel i need to post this Now!!! I have poor signal here but i do have photo's!!

The picture's that i want to attach were taken yesterday by myself,although a little difficult to see from the photo but it is,and i can guarantee,fish cut up with poison covered over it. I small puppy dog lying a few meters away,foam from mouth dead. This is powerful the smell very very bad,it is lying under a bungalow as you see on a Frisbee.I am not a doctor,but if a child,adult picks this Frisbee up maybe after the fish has gone,puts fingers in mouth,what would happen?

I am not a doctor neither am i a scientist,but from what a have seen from all the comments, i could be looking at a time bomb here!!

My attempt so far was simply to turn it over,it still remains under a bungalow,the resort catering for families,35-40 bungalows maybe 6-8 children playing not so far away.This is just one heap of fish that i have seen,it's about 30mts away from my bungalow,which i'm not happy about,and 50mts from the sea.

It is madness, totally madness,that who ever put it there had one thought only,lets poison the dogs,not thinking for one minute what else this will kill that has contact.

I need your help,your advise,i personally know the Thai family who own the resort but i stay in the resort next door. I know how things work here in Thailand,i know the family concerned not great friends because many times i see things that disgust me!

I know even if i go over with my intelligence rather than anger,i will get No where,it will be " it's nothing to do with you" and could cause problems and lead to the anger,this i'm also very good at,which is why i'm keeping low key,boiling with anger at their stupidity!!

Can anyone advise me on what should be done,if i lived still back in the UK i would of picked up the phone,dialled health and safety and in less than 1hr it would be dealt with, alas i live on Koh Phangan. So my other thought is,if they receive 100 phone calls from you out there,letting them know the outside world knows it has to be removed.

Or do we have anyone reading this with any authority that can call them for it to be removed?

Ok one looks like it has attached........ Advise please and kind regards jason

[Semper]

That's not a frisbee, it's a plastic lid. So they are using rat poison to get rid of stray dogs or cats. Can't see what this has anything to do with this topic.

[Galong]

I've been to Phi Phi five times in 20 years and got food poisoning twice! Phi Phi is a horrrible, horrible place and as there is seemingly no regulation whatsoever, it's a wonder more people are getting seriously ill... perhaps they are and we just don't hear about it unless they die.

I highly recommend NEVER going to Phi Phi. You would be supporting the worst that tourism has to offer.

[Galong]

That's not a frisbee, it's a plastic lid. So they are using rat poison to get rid of stray dogs or cats. Can't see what this has anything to do with this topic.

Bring innocent dogs and cats on the island, then poison them. That's truly compassionate.