I Want To Give Up My Us Citizenship

[KeyserSoze01]

Last time I checked into holding a second citizenship, Belize was the likely target country. At that time, you could get a Belize passport for an investment of around $50,000 USD. This was a number of years ago, though that number has mostly likely gone up as prices never come down.

[NBD]

As I understand it you have to be earning a good chunk before you're actually liable for any significant tax from the US. If you're planning on being the CEO of a major global corporation, or an F1 driver then it might become a factor. But to be a little presumptuous, I think you have more pressing hurdles to overcome.

A passport isn't much use to anyone except passage through a port, i.e. travel, however this is pretty useful for someone wishing to go to Thailand, Cambodia, Australia or Canada, because to the best of my knowledge all of these countries allow US passport holders entry without prior visa arrangements. Citizenship has various other uses besides.

If you want to be a principled globalist like Joseph Retinger you can renounce all citizenships and become voluntarily stateless, but good luck explaining your stance to either the Thai immigration authorities or the border guards at Poipet. You probably wouldn't even be able to board a flight to Australia or Canada.

In short, your idea is completely bonkers and I suggest you pack in the drugs. If you want to move to Canada or Australia (they're quite different you know?) then go and spend some time there, get a job and sort your visa out as a US citizen living abroad, which will be a lot easier than trying to do so as a raving lunatic who has renounced a perfectly good first world citizenship for no good reason at all.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Ain't gonna happen. Stop dreaming.

[meand]

If you're not rich just forget it. Benefits of your current passport far outweigh drawbacks, especially when considering hassle of renouncing into equation. You get on a forum for advice, so there it is.

Edited June 20, 2012 by meand

[chops]

Ain't gonna happen. Stop dreaming.

It's gonna happen. It's just a matter of time. I think I can have it completed within 5-10 years if I hurry.

The way I see it, my freedom is threatened by an increasingly fascist and controlling government. I'm trying to get out now before it is too late. And I'm certainly not the only American trying to do it.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Ain't gonna happen. Stop dreaming.

It's gonna happen. It's just a matter of time. I think I can have it completed within 5-10 years if I hurry.

The way I see it, my freedom is threatened by an increasingly fascist and controlling government. I'm trying to get out now before it is too late. And I'm certainly not the only American trying to do it.

Oh, if you've got 10 years to play around with (as well as lots of patience and money) it can definitely be done. It sounded like you were looking for something quick and easy.

Good luck trying to find a non-controlling government, though.

(It took me 13 years to obtain Thai citizenship, by the way. I did not renounce my original US citizenship, though)

[KeyserSoze01]

Ain't gonna happen. Stop dreaming.

It's gonna happen. It's just a matter of time. I think I can have it completed within 5-10 years if I hurry.

The way I see it, my freedom is threatened by an increasingly fascist and controlling government. I'm trying to get out now before it is too late. And I'm certainly not the only American trying to do it.

The only problem with your plan is that the evil empire (USA) just loves to impose it's wishes on other countries, so no matter where you go, you will be living under the influence of Uncle Sam. The only real benefit is escaping the US Tax Code and as others have stated, unless you are loaded with cash, it's not really worth the effort.

There is a real push in Washington to simplify the tax code as the current version is an albatross. The only problem with that is that once the tax code is streamlined, you won't be able to hide behind questionable deductions to reduce your tax liability.

[Time Traveller]

I don't think you've really thought this through, have you?

I don't need a US passport. It's of no value for me except to travel on.

My citizenship status might become a tax liability in the future so I think I should start to cut my ties now.

I'm planning an extended dating trip to Canada and/or Australia with the intent on finding a wife who can sponsor me. If you know any Canadian or Australian ladies(doesn't matter how ugly) looking for an american man let me know.

I think you might not have researched it fully enough. US taxes are very low when compared with Australian or Canadian.

[chops]

I don't think you've really thought this through, have you?

I don't need a US passport. It's of no value for me except to travel on.

My citizenship status might become a tax liability in the future so I think I should start to cut my ties now.

I'm planning an extended dating trip to Canada and/or Australia with the intent on finding a wife who can sponsor me. If you know any Canadian or Australian ladies(doesn't matter how ugly) looking for an american man let me know.

I think you might not have researched it fully enough. US taxes are very low when compared with Australian or Canadian.

Yes, but I don't think they tax people living abroad.

And BTW, taxes in the US are actually quite high. 25-40% is the normal tax rate. Only the rich and low income people who have lots of kids have these "low" taxes.

[theblether]

I don't think you've really thought this through, have you?

I don't need a US passport. It's of no value for me except to travel on.

My citizenship status might become a tax liability in the future so I think I should start to cut my ties now.

I'm planning an extended dating trip to Canada and/or Australia with the intent on finding a wife who can sponsor me. If you know any Canadian or Australian ladies(doesn't matter how ugly) looking for an american man let me know.

I think you might not have researched it fully enough. US taxes are very low when compared with Australian or Canadian.

Yes, but I don't think they tax people living abroad.

And BTW, taxes in the US are actually quite high. 25-40% is the normal tax rate. Only the rich and low income people who have lots of kids have these "low" taxes.

I was reading in the British press that the government is toying with introducing US system of worldwide tax responsibility, beware of contagion Chops, beware of contagion.

[endure]

I'm just wondering where the OP is going to find a government that's less fascist and controlling than the US government?

[KeyserSoze01]

I don't think you've really thought this through, have you?

I don't need a US passport. It's of no value for me except to travel on.

My citizenship status might become a tax liability in the future so I think I should start to cut my ties now.

I'm planning an extended dating trip to Canada and/or Australia with the intent on finding a wife who can sponsor me. If you know any Canadian or Australian ladies(doesn't matter how ugly) looking for an american man let me know.

I think you might not have researched it fully enough. US taxes are very low when compared with Australian or Canadian.

Yes, but I don't think they tax people living abroad.

And BTW, taxes in the US are actually quite high. 25-40% is the normal tax rate. Only the rich and low income people who have lots of kids have these "low" taxes.

You do know that if you qualify as an expat according to IRS tax code, you are exempt from paying US income tax on the first $95,100 you earn per year from overseas sources. Plus there are numerous other deductions which you can claim if you earn more than that amount. Another benefit is that you continue to pay into SS. Just sayin'.

http://taxes.about.com/od/taxhelp/a/ForeignIncome.htm

Edited June 20, 2012 by KeyserSoze01

[whatchamacallit]

I don't think you've really thought this through, have you?

I don't need a US passport. It's of no value for me except to travel on.

My citizenship status might become a tax liability in the future so I think I should start to cut my ties now.

I'm planning an extended dating trip to Canada and/or Australia with the intent on finding a wife who can sponsor me. If you know any Canadian or Australian ladies(doesn't matter how ugly) looking for an american man let me know.

The op don't make any sense...have you checked out the tax laws in both Canada and Australia? They're both strict tax laws and expect you to declare foreign earnings as well. Is there something else you're not disclosing here?

[simple1]

Why not research Australian tax rates and immigration laws, you might get a nasty surprise

www.ato.gov.au

www.immi.gov.au

[lanny]

I don't think you've really thought this through, have you?

I don't need a US passport. It's of no value for me except to travel on.

My citizenship status might become a tax liability in the future so I think I should start to cut my ties now.

I'm planning an extended dating trip to Canada and/or Australia with the intent on finding a wife who can sponsor me. If you know any Canadian or Australian ladies(doesn't matter how ugly) looking for an american man let me know.

I think you might not have researched it fully enough. US taxes are very low when compared with Australian or Canadian.

Yes, but I don't think they tax people living abroad.

And BTW, taxes in the US are actually quite high. 25-40% is the normal tax rate. Only the rich and low income people who have lots of kids have these "low" taxes.

Actually, taxes in Thailand can be higher than in the US. US taxpayers can claim a credit for Thai taxes on income that is taxed by both countries. If the credit is greater than the US tax on that income, the excess can be carried over to future years. Nearly all of my clients who take this credit have a carry-over because they pay more to Thailand than they would have to pay the US.

[Time Traveller]

Another useful thing about US taxes, is that you can do income splitting (unlike in Australia) if married. This benefits people where one person receives most of the money in the family, and reduces tax compared with being taxed as an individual.

[7by7]

A flame post has been removed.

Disagree with another member by all means, but do so politely!

[Shurup]

If you're right about US tax being 25-40% then Canada is about the same. A canadian can become a non resident, can keep his passport and all the benefits associated with it and will be relieved of paying tax but the condition is you have to prove you pay tax in another country. Not much different if you ask me.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect App

[NewlyMintedThai]

and Thai taxes hit the top rate of 37% pretty quickly if you make a decent wage.

[thunder30101]

The us doesnt care if you relinquish your citizenship (sorry to burst your bubble you aint that important to them) and is not going to punish you for it. Many people have been doing it the last few years but guess what they were all very wealthy and could afford to do it and not look back. Personally I think you are just young and foolish enough to believe that all the worlds ills are to blame on the usa, well guess what all 5 permanent members of the un security council are guilty along with every other country in the world, the usa is just the youngest player at the table of corruption and happens to have been top dog for quite some time so they take all the blame. People always seem to forget who always gets asked first to do something when there is a problem in the world and then when it goes bad we take the blame and everyone else runs for cover. Personally i am glad to see china becoming a world power as maybe we can take a break from taking it up the ass every time something bad happens in the world. But dont come crying when you find out they are just as corrupt and self serving as america. There are many countries I know of that will give you citizenship if you invest the required amount of money there just pick your country and google citizenship, you dont have to come on a forum and use taxes as an excuse to air your dislike of your home country. One more thing is thailand would be the last country I would want citizenship in as it is the only country in the world still 95% indigenous, got it falang ?

[Somtamnication]

Never heard of so much baloney.

Over ten years ago I waltzed into the US emb. in my home country. Asked to speak to a State Dept. official. While his mouth was still opened, I stated "I hereby willingly and happily renounce my US citizenship. I do so without fear nor am I being forced to do so".

He asked me why, I said "because you idiots voted Bush into office".

Never regretted it since. Yes, I have another citizenship. Of course! Never signed papers, no interviews and yes, my non citizenship was confirmed years later.

[NBD]

Very principled! Did you have another citizenship already? Care to share which country?

[Jingthing]

I could never and would never give up my US citizenship. Yankee Doodle Dandy! But if y'all want to, I hope it's easy to do.

[meand]

Never heard of so much baloney.

Over ten years ago I waltzed into the US emb. in my home country. Asked to speak to a State Dept. official. While his mouth was still opened, I stated "I hereby willingly and happily renounce my US citizenship. I do so without fear nor am I being forced to do so".

He asked me why, I said "because you idiots voted Bush into office".

Never regretted it since. Yes, I have another citizenship. Of course! Never signed papers, no interviews and yes, my non citizenship was confirmed years later.

This was before they realized they could possibly be losing many of their cash cows. I'm sure they also realized you have no substantial income and couldn't care less. Nowadays the ethos of the government is changing, they are realizing that to keep their head above water, they will have to discourage people from renouncing in the future -- rich and poor. Lose one source of income, and others may follow -- they must put a stop to that. And thus, love it or leave it takes on a whole new meaning... something much more sinister and perverse like "love it and you mustn't leave it because we can't afford to lose you".

Edited June 23, 2012 by meand

[thunder30101]

So tell us, are they going to refuse him if he wants to renounce or send him to gitmo for some waterboarding ??? lol some people are so full of it. He can renounce any day of the week nobody cares, its his right to do it. I def wouldnt do it just because someone got elected I didnt like, how childish and petty.

[Somtamnication]

Principled my butt! It had to do with the direction the country was going. Look at it now: Big brother everywhere, two politicians one of which will be a pres one day, since 911 (yes, I shed tears for 3000+ people) this country is one of the most hated in the world. Their moral columns have come crashing down.

I do not hate the merkins (I do miss Wendys and butterfingers), but seriously, is there anything merkin expats would love to go back for? From Thailand with its warts and all? Most expats I know, from retired lawyers, doctors, viet vets, regular folks, all cringe the thought of going back.

Being in law enforcement for close to 18 years, I have seen the worst and the best of people. What it is turning into, I simply do not like.

NBD, you gotta read my post again to answer your first question. No, to the second.

To the OP, do what your heart and brain dictate. You will sleep better at night. But have the other citizenship in the bag before you do, or you will be living at an airport for 10 years.

[meand]

So tell us, are they going to refuse him if he wants to renounce or send him to gitmo for some waterboarding ??? lol some people are so full of it. He can renounce any day of the week nobody cares, its his right to do it. I def wouldnt do it just because someone got elected I didnt like, how childish and petty.

I essentially agree with this, if you have quite a bit of time, and the $450 dollar fee. If you don't see that as excessive, and even Machiavellian, I just don't agree. It is a blatant attempt to keep as many dogs as possible around to continue to pull the govt on their sled ride.

Edited June 23, 2012 by meand

[NBD]

Interesting. Were you in law enforcement in the states? Understand completely if you don't care to share the details but I do find it interesting.

I view my British citizenship much the same, and in a way I'd love to walk in and tell them to stick it. On the other hand, in the sweep of the next 50 or so years I hopefully have here, and my daughter beyond that, the doors that remain open as a citizen of a western country are too useful to close IMO.

[RichardinBKK]

I am American, and like most, have only that Passport. Sadly, like most, I really only speak English (Being able to ask for a bottle of water is not "speaking Thai")

I often wish I could just renounce and move on, for many reasons. Some are personal and some are political.

However, when I do a risk / reward evaluation, best to ride the horse you know. To the gentleman who wants to call it a day ... Have you considered that you will most likely be denied a visa to the US, be lucky to get a Green card to work there even if they do not put you on the next plane out? You will say, "I will never go back." Never say never my friend, it is a long road with no turns.

At the end of the day, pragmatism needs to trump emotion.

By the way, many of the people posting are correct. The US has a new policy and very stiff penalty if the can "prove" you are leaving for tax reasons. Well, since every American owes some tax they will determine taxes are a motivating factor, no matter how small your fortune.

(In theory, even if you are a monk, you need to multiply 365 x the value of a bowl of rice and declare it as income)

So the Golden Rule is still in full effect (The guy with the Gold makes the Rules) IE: You WILL be fined for trying to renounce to dodge taxes.

The American passport does come with privileges and protections few others can match. The World can turn nasty quite suddenly, and you may find over the course of your lifetime ... that little Blue Book might save your skin.

You have a Thai family, surely your Visa is not much of a worry.

Best to you

[johnlandy]

I don't think you've really thought this through, have you?

Well put!!