BigJohnnyBKK Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) Does this If you'd just calmly and coolly discussed the issue when it happened the first time you would have gotten what you wanted without wasting time and energy. sound like that? So what you're saying is let people walk all over you? I'm simply advocating being effective in preventing that, and realizing that proper queuing etiquette is a socially learned behavior to which few cultures attach as much importance - even moral imperatives - to as do NES ones. IMO anger isn't even appropriate in this situation, and certainly not effective in getting what you want. Same goes with punctuality, which I believe is even more important to Yanks than Brits, but rarely important in most other cultures except under their dominant influence in the business environments. Saying "sorry" and "thank you", all arbitrary indicators of politeness we're taught on mum's knee but they're not, so don't go around getting all upset just because they're not following your rules. Sometimes anger is the right tool to pull out for a given purpose, but in Thailand very rarely so in public. The fact that some people don't consciously choose to use it as such, but let themselves be overwhelmed to the point where their behaviour is no longer under their control, is (IMO quite properly) judged by the Thais as demonstrating him/herself to be less than fully human. And publicly putting yourself in such a position can't be a good thing can it? Edited June 24, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meand Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 The queuing is so interesting. I agree that many cultures just don't emphasize its importance. I finally got so fed up with it in Peru, I just started doing like they did.... when I walked into the store, i'd just yell out "un sol de pan!!" and somebody would hop to it, even if somebody slightly more sheepish was before me. Ha. So it works both ways if you want it to. Assimilate -- i've yet to do it here myself, but one day after i learn the language i'll be hoping queues, and it will all even out perhaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohnnyBKK Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 The queuing is so interesting. I agree that many cultures just don't emphasize its importance. I finally got so fed up with it in Peru, I just started doing like they did.... when I walked into the store, i'd just yell out "un sol de pan!!" and somebody would hop to it, even if somebody slightly more sheepish was before me. Ha. So it works both ways if you want it to. Assimilate -- i've yet to do it here myself, but one day after i learn the language i'll be hoping queues, and it will all even out perhaps Actually, most places queues are well-respected. Those that jump them in office and government situations may well "deserve" to as far as the Thais are concerned. Very few farang - except for true VIPs, usually surrounded by a supporting cast of fawning Thais, e.g. Bill H - will be considered to be worthy of the same. And of course most at that level wouldn't dream of being so crass, just set things up so they are never even in the position of having to wait in a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingdang Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) with the queuing happens everywhere, ALWAYS in banks... its definitely NOT people of "higher ranks"... its those, who are most reckless... once, two people almost same time did it on the only two open counters... and each of them spent there more than an hour... they just had entered the bank, and it couldnt have been their number called... from one, i had seen which her ticket in the box was, and i walked to the counter to peek on it, but didnt work... i thought, when its my turn, i will check the box.. when it was my turn the box was EMPTY, not one ticket in it... Edited June 24, 2012 by dingdang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingdang Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) and what they also do... on the ticket machine there are often girls (from the bank etc)... they draw occasionally numbers and give them to "preferred" people, so they skip the queue... thats all the no-shows when numbers are called... and then... oops she didnt saw me coming... im in front of her... she has a low number in hand and - draws me one... ahahahaha... was a bit embarrassing... then they have to "restore face" - means, you will be provoked... pplllllllllllllleassse, loose face, farang... makes me feeling better... Edited June 24, 2012 by dingdang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokie36 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 and what they also do... on the ticket machine there are often girls (from the bank etc)... they draw occasionally numbers and give them to "preferred" people, so they skip the queue... thats all the no-shows when numbers are called... I recommend professional help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingdang Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) the latest... i walk quite a way, its only sparsely settled, cant use sidewalks as the dogs are attacking... wide street, 6 lines, traffic lights, almost no cars... a motorbike with 3 guys from opposite direction, waits at the turn (to drive on "my lane")... when i pass by, they turn, and drive ca 20 cm from behind past me... a phuket-copycat, as its funny to scare tourists? Edited June 24, 2012 by dingdang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingdang Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) and what they also do... on the ticket machine there are often girls (from the bank etc)... they draw occasionally numbers and give them to "preferred" people, so they skip the queue... thats all the no-shows when numbers are called... I recommend professional help. are you saying its not true? it is true, and it is done all the time. and with the numerous no-shows caused by this, other people just walk to the counter, when nobody gets up immediately... Edited June 24, 2012 by dingdang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokie36 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 and what they also do... on the ticket machine there are often girls (from the bank etc)... they draw occasionally numbers and give them to "preferred" people, so they skip the queue... thats all the no-shows when numbers are called... I recommend professional help. are you saying its not true? it is true, and it is done all the time. and with the numerous no-shows caused by this, other people just walk to the counter, when nobody gets up immediately... No I'm saying get pally with the manager. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I have to agree with you there, I was at global house waiting in the office to place my order, there were were a number of seats there, and people waited for their turn,no numbers just the seats. I sat there and waited, only to watch thais walk in , walk at the head of the line and be taken cared of, the first time I thought it was a honest mistake, the second time I got uncomfortable, the third time I blew my top, and it takes a lot for this to happen to me, and told the girl at the desk, what was going on,in a loud voice. she replied, sorry sir, I will take you in ten minutes, I said " no you wont, because in 10 minutes I will be at the home pro store down the street" and walked out. It was not only this individual incident that made me loose my cool, it was the accumulation of a Thousand of small irritations that made me loose it. And I have to admit, I enjoyed it. If you'd just calmly and coolly discussed the issue when it happened the first time you would have gotten what you wanted without wasting time and energy. Yea but I would not had felt as good as I did afterwards I vote with my feet,If enough people hit them, in the pocket where it hurts, maybe they will change their attitude, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMAN Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I dont often post replies but get many laughs at reading other peoples posts, but had to reply to this, the way these people drive and ride motorbikes makes me snap on nearly a daily basis. Ive been here 7 years and still cant get my head around it, they are the most ignorant and stupid drivers i have ever seen, thats my rant finished thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohnnyBKK Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Sometimes rent a car to head upcountry, but IMO day to day life shouldn't require driving anything anywhere, and I choose my location and design my life so I do not need to. The much higher danger of Thailand's roads is only one reason for that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 What is face then? I've read a bit about it, but never really heard a better explanation than an form of vanity with an absurd degree of importance attached to it by some (though not al) Asians. Check out this link: http://en.wikipedia....logical_concept) Apparently, it's quite more complex than can be summed up in one sentence as some posters are trying to do here (lazily). Your link is broken, FTFY here And academics can certainly write entire books about relatively simple ideas - in this case my perhaps simplistic definition in no way contradicts these more complete ones. Ivana Trump was a friend of the family, and both her and Donald are quite sensitive to anyone showing them disrespect. As far as I know neither are Asian. I think one difference is that ordinary people here can value their face as much as touchy rich celebrities do back home, and it's commonly acceptable to do so, whereas in most farang common-people cultures that's considered being up yourself too much. However the phenomenon itself is certainly not an Asian one but a human one, just different extents, manifestations and levels of acceptance as valid in various socio-economic contexts as well as national-level cultures. Sorry to disagree with you on this one the desire for,respect is a human characteristic, and some time is exasperated by hubris. But " Face" is a Asian concept , in that it is deeply ingrained with in the cultural fabric .It determines how one is viewed by the other members with in his cultural group, and the individuals ability to effectively function with in that group .In extreme cases and in some Asian countries it can express it's self in ways not seen in western countries, such as " Honor killings" etc. You almost hit the nail on the head IMHO. I would phrase it thus: The asian concept of face is a selfserving, immature, puerile self inflated sense of hubris, pride and respect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 .... You almost hit the nail on the head IMHO. I would phrase it thus: The asian concept of face is a selfserving, immature, puerile self inflated sense of hubris, pride and respect. I didn't really understand the word "asian" in there. Are you saying my selfserving immature peurile self-inflated sense of hubris, pride and respect is somehow not as good as theirs? Are you deliberately trying ot have a go at me just because I'm farang? SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHammer Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Anyone care to explain what happened there then? No, I don't speak 'peasant'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokie36 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Anyone care to explain what happened there then? No, I don't speak 'peasant'. Have a heart....we're talking about an encounter between an English and a Thai man. Both deserve our sympathy surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHammer Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 You almost hit the nail on the head IMHO. I would phrase it thus: The asian concept of face is a selfserving, immature, puerile self inflated sense of hubris, pride and respect. No, face is a concept which primarily clashes with our logic and merit based, individualistic society. To my knowledge 'face' is primarily a way of keeping people happy in their given lot in life. I agree it's an outdated concept in the modern world, but not an Asian phenomenon at all. It was very common in the middle ages and later in Europe: "Sir, you have insulted my honor, I demand satisfaction! Guns at dawn?". Most important, the 'idea' of face or honor is to preserve an outwards appearance of superiority. You see this when the average Thai grovels for anyone considered higher up the echelon, which would clearly be considered losing face if the superior (in whatever perceived way) did this. So 'face' is clearly linked to a hierachy structure and 'face' is used to disguise that this hiearachy is often arbitrary and not based on merit. If we didn't have face, someone would eventually call out 'But he's not wearing any clothes' and the socially opressive fabric of society would tumble. I consider face backwards and dangerous when it becomes more important than the truth. Would a junior surgeon in Thailand or Japan ever dare tell a senior that they were making a critical error? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHammer Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Anyone care to explain what happened there then? No, I don't speak 'peasant'. Have a heart....we're talking about an encounter between an English and a Thai man. Both deserve our sympathy surely? It was amusing in a 'Little Britain' kind of way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARISTIDE Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I'm sure a few Thais want to shout at some farang too particularly when they bring some prostitutes to the condo swimming pools. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I would love to do that first one sometimes, although I never would of course. I have this belief here that people think they are the only one on earth when they are walking. Why is that? On a certain bts walkway there is about room for three people to be walking side by side, somehow people make it so you can't pass and walk slow. Why do they do that? Ha. I truly can laugh about it but I don't really get it. I have purpose when I walk and I just find it odd, it's just as easy to walk to one side. In a related subject, notice how when the skytrain stops, the people OUTSIDE barge in before the ones inside can leave the car. I quite enjoy standing in the way and blocking them till they let me past! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I dont often post replies but get many laughs at reading other peoples posts, but had to reply to this, the way these people drive and ride motorbikes makes me snap on nearly a daily basis. Ive been here 7 years and still cant get my head around it, they are the most ignorant and stupid drivers i have ever seen, thats my rant finished thanks. Hmmmmm. Obviously never tried to drive on the Auckland ( New Zealand ) motorway at rush hour! Compared to them, Thai drivers are brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayayay Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 ok, I have only been here 3 and a half years and I have to say I seen a lot for foreigners completely snap at Thai's over the smallest thing. Yes, it is very embarrassing, to say the least. I hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommoPhysicist Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 and what they also do... on the ticket machine there are often girls (from the bank etc)... they draw occasionally numbers and give them to "preferred" people, so they skip the queue... thats all the no-shows when numbers are called... and then... oops she didnt saw me coming... im in front of her... she has a low number in hand and - draws me one... ahahahaha... was a bit embarrassing... then they have to "restore face" - means, you will be provoked... pplllllllllllllleassse, loose face, farang... makes me feeling better... I open my bank book and show it to her. She then escorts me to the counter where I am immediately served. Then slips me a card with her personal phone number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingdang Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I open my bank book and show it to her. She then escorts me to the counter where I am immediately served. Then slips me a card with her personal phone number. im sorry, that you have to show your bank book... there are guys, who manage this without... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommoPhysicist Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 there are guys, who manage this without... Not me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMagus Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 When I first came here I used to be soo polite, respecting a different culture etc etc.... BUT now... when she decides to STOP at the BOTTOM of the escalator to talk on her phone and everyone is backing into me I just push her out of the way. Similarly, I'm 105 kg and when some dopey 60kg thinks its a good idea to walk through me to get ON to the skytrain BEFORE we all get off.... I now just keep walking..through them if necessary.... stupidity knows no cultural boundaries. Good..feel better afta that rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 When I first came here I used to be soo polite, respecting a different culture etc etc.... BUT now... when she decides to STOP at the BOTTOM of the escalator to talk on her phone and everyone is backing into me I just push her out of the way. Similarly, I'm 105 kg and when some dopey 60kg thinks its a good idea to walk through me to get ON to the skytrain BEFORE we all get off.... I now just keep walking..through them if necessary.... stupidity knows no cultural boundaries. Good..feel better afta that rant. LOL. I too enjoy standing in the way of the Thais trying to force their way onto the skytrain before anyone is able to exit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gp2002 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Sometimes, if you don't get a little 'animated', things will NOT get done. PERIOD. I'm sorry, but if something can get done in a day instead of a week or two, then I will let them know that I am unhappy. Just because Thais have no problem sitting around and waiting for something to get done (when it could get done earlier) doesn't mean I have to. Now, I'm not talking about getting physical with the person, just rasing your voice a little is okay. The funny thing is, I see Thais getting angry with each other all the time, so why can't a foreigner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) When I first came here I used to be soo polite, respecting a different culture etc etc.... BUT now... when she decides to STOP at the BOTTOM of the escalator to talk on her phone and everyone is backing into me I just push her out of the way. Similarly, I'm 105 kg and when some dopey 60kg thinks its a good idea to walk through me to get ON to the skytrain BEFORE we all get off.... I now just keep walking..through them if necessary.... stupidity knows no cultural boundaries. Good..feel better afta that rant. Stupidity knows no cultural boundaries. Unfortunately, my vocabulary knows boundaries and limitations, and I still don't know the word for a post that is the epitome of what it describes. I like to think that my manners are well-enough ingrained that I can continue to behave like a decent person, regardless of the ignorance or stupidity of those about me. I'd not be much of a man if I would sacrifice my manners for the sake of inconveniencing a stupid person. And I'd not like to set them an example and make them think that in our countries we accept coarse barging into one another. Leave that sort of behaviour to the Chinese. SC Edited July 8, 2012 by StreetCowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arminbkk Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) When I first came here I used to be soo polite, respecting a different culture etc etc.... BUT now... when she decides to STOP at the BOTTOM of the escalator to talk on her phone and everyone is backing into me I just push her out of the way. Similarly, I'm 105 kg and when some dopey 60kg thinks its a good idea to walk through me to get ON to the skytrain BEFORE we all get off.... I now just keep walking..through them if necessary.... stupidity knows no cultural boundaries. Good..feel better afta that rant. It doesn't come under 'culture', otherwise they wouldn't announce to "wait at the arrow signs and let passengers exit first". It's just a person's own choice to stand right where the door will open. Knowing that people will get out, it is then either arrogance or stupidity....and nobody is that stupid. I usually hold a brief second, if they still don't move, then I do (but 80 kg, not 105 ). Edited July 8, 2012 by arminbkk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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