No Order To Open Fire On The Crowds In 2010: Abhisit

[Yunla]

no the red shirts here are not communist

you mean besides communist Red Shirt Leaders Thida, Weng, and Surachai?

a few there maybe but not as a 'movement' as well you know - unless you brand Thaksin as a 'communist' too? or the PM? it's absurd

You mean apart from coincidences like both Shinawatras advocating agrarian uprising to destroy elites, their faces superimposed on giant red posters, avoiding democratic debate, ruling with totalitarian practices, their family originating from Mao's China at the time of his greatest popularity, giving communist China the Thai school-tablet budget, avoiding NASA because Beijing doesn't approve, having hordes of followers all dressed in the same red clothes, all waving placards with the dear leaders face on, keeping all the wealth within government while the poor get next to nothing, handing out home addresses of dissenters to angry mobs in the street. You're so right, no similarities between Shinawatra and communist dictatorships at all.

[tlansford]

no the red shirts here are not communist

you mean besides communist Red Shirt Leaders Thida, Weng, and Surachai?

a few there maybe but not as a 'movement' as well you know - unless you brand Thaksin as a 'communist' too? or the PM? it's absurd

You mean apart from coincidences like both Shinawatras advocating agrarian uprising to destroy elites, their faces superimposed on giant red posters, avoiding democratic debate, ruling with totalitarian practices, their family originating from Mao's China at the time of his greatest popularity, giving communist China the Thai school-tablet budget, avoiding NASA because Beijing doesn't approve, having hordes of followers all dressed in the same red clothes, all waving placards with the dear leaders face on, keeping all the wealth within government while the poor get next to nothing, handing out home addresses of dissenters to angry mobs in the street. You're so right, no similarities between Shinawatra and communist dictatorships at all.

and since the Chinese have all become died-in-the-wool capitalists, clearly the Shinwatra cronies are truly the worse kind of communists.

[tlansford]

- deleted -

you mean besides communist Red Shirt Leaders Thida, Weng, and Surachai?

a few there maybe but not as a 'movement' as well you know - unless you brand Thaksin as a 'communist' too? or the PM? it's absurd

Why mention Thaksin, or his clone sister, in a discussion of Red Shirt Leaders? I thought the script was that it's not about Thaksin.

Anyway, there's much more than a few, but less than "10 million" amongst the Red Shirts.

They are represented very well in the Leaders, of which you can add Somyot and his Marxist/Leninist magazines.

There's also Giles and also all the communist red stars imagery present at all Red Shirt gatherings.

If the Red Shirts don't want to be associated with the communists, denounce their involvement and exclude them... rather than feebly attempt to downplay their participation?

The same can be said of the terrorist element in the Red Shirts as well as the anti-monarchists... who coincidentally include a number of the same communists.

.

If communists are not welcome with this so-called movement, why

They allow insane people into PAD so why not communists into the UDD?

The PAD should just disassociate themselves from insane people and denounce the methods of insanity if they don't want to be labeled an insane political movement.

[Yunla]

and since the Chinese have all become died-in-the-wool capitalists, clearly the Shinwatra cronies are truly the worse kind of communists.

No, its just that China has already experienced the joys of totalitarianism and is slowly accepting reforms. Thailand's rural people are being sold the same lies as China in the 1930s. No different lies just more hi-tech and 80 years later. And same as China, the leadership lived in opulence while the poor got nothing.

By the way you should go tell the millions of prisoners in Chinese forced slave labour camps 2012 that they are living in modern capitalist state, they don't get paid anything and they have their organs cut out and sold. Their crime, dissent.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Yunla

[Buchholz]

They allow insane people into PAD so why not communists into the UDD?

The ironic thing about mental illness and the Redmob...

quote:

Of the 13 men released by the Mukdahan Court, several have required treatment for mental illnesses

It's a reoccurring theme.From a thread on a different Red Shirt Arsonist....

quote:

"I want to go home," said Saichon, who is often described by those who knew him as not mentally sound.

We've heard that before about the Red Shirts...

Most of the red-shirt supporters in jail are garbage collectors, homeless people, and the mentally ill who cannot seek legal help or find enough money for bail. The People’s Centre for Information (PCI) revealed its initial investigation on the April-May crackdowns yesterday.It collected information about 169 red-shirt protesters who are now under detention in the provinces of Maha Sarakham, Ubon Ratchathani, Udon Thani, Khon Kaen, Mukdahan, Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai over charges of taking part in illegal gatherings as well as arson or terrorism.PCI discovered that most of the detained red shirts could not find lawyers or enough money for bail. Most of the detainees are garbage collectors, homeless people, and people with mental health problems.

The Nation / 2010-11-19

http://www.nationmul...--30142601.html

Edited July 4, 2012 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

The PAD should just disassociate themselves from insane people

As per multiple incidents like the above.... If the Red Shirts did that, they'd lose a significant portion of their followers...

.

[Yunla]

Redmob are vulnerable impoverished people who are exploited by sadistic criminals within the redmob leadership and PTP.

[trompelemonde]

no the red shirts here are not communist

you mean besides communist Red Shirt Leaders Thida, Weng, and Surachai?

a few there maybe but not as a 'movement' as well you know - unless you brand Thaksin as a 'communist' too? or the PM? it's absurd

You mean apart from coincidences like both Shinawatras advocating agrarian uprising to destroy elites, their faces superimposed on giant red posters, avoiding democratic debate, ruling with totalitarian practices, their family originating from Mao's China at the time of his greatest popularity, giving communist China the Thai school-tablet budget, avoiding NASA because Beijing doesn't approve, having hordes of followers all dressed in the same red clothes, all waving placards with the dear leaders face on, keeping all the wealth within government while the poor get next to nothing, handing out home addresses of dissenters to angry mobs in the street. You're so right, no similarities between Shinawatra and communist dictatorships at all.

I thought that Thaksin's grandparents originally came over to Thailand from mainland China in the 1860's?

Your other points could be equally applied to most other popular political movements in Thailand whether PTP, UDD, PAD even the BMA. Equating Thaksin with communism is about as the same as equating the PAD with facism - both are off the mark.

[tlansford]

and since the Chinese have all become died-in-the-wool capitalists, clearly the Shinwatra cronies are truly the worse kind of communists.

No, its just that China has already experienced the joys of totalitarianism and is slowly accepting reforms. Thailand's rural people are being sold the same lies as China in the 1930s. No different lies just more hi-tech and 80 years later. And same as China, the leadership lived in opulence while the poor got nothing.

By the way you should go tell the millions of prisoners in Chinese forced slave labour camps 2012 that they are living in modern capitalist state, they don't get paid anything and they have their organs cut out and sold. Their crime, dissent.

I was, of course, poking fun at your claim that the Shinawatra's are communists. That is - IMO - absurd. I do not feel that Thaksin was any friend of democracy, however.

As for your last comment, Capitalism and totalitarianism are not incompatible. The former is an economic system, the latter a political system. China has married the 2.

[Yunla]

I was, of course, poking fun at your claim that the Shinawatra's are communists. That is - IMO - absurd. I do not feel that Thaksin was any friend of democracy, however.

As for your last comment, Capitalism and totalitarianism are not incompatible. The former is an economic system, the latter a political system. China has married the 2.

This is your post from ten minutes ago, which I was responding to. Note how it clashes with the above post by yourself.

and since the Chinese have all become died-in-the-wool capitalists, clearly the Shinwatra cronies are truly the worse kind of communists.

I was answering the earlier poster who said there is nothing communist about redmob PTP and I provided examples. You don't live here and quite honestly if they start handing out the 'little red book' here, neither will I.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Yunla

[Yunla]

I thought that Thaksin's grandparents originally came over to Thailand from mainland China in the 1860's?

Your other points could be equally applied to most other popular political movements in Thailand whether PTP, UDD, PAD even the BMA. Equating Thaksin with communism is about as the same as equating the PAD with facism - both are off the mark.

Idk the date they came over, my point was more that he has origins in that country around the time of the agrarian red revolution. I also seriously doubt that the family, post-emigration, were unaware of Mao's teachings and other stories from the homeland nearby. It was a minor comment. The communist dictatorial speeches and actions in PTP and the Family, are my main reasons for making the connection. Also re; fascism you mentioned, I have outlined why PTP's actions are state-fascism several times too. I don't see any connection between DP and communism or fascism which is why I support them in spirit.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Yunla

[tlansford]

I was, of course, poking fun at your claim that the Shinawatra's are communists. That is - IMO - absurd. I do not feel that Thaksin was any friend of democracy, however.

As for your last comment, Capitalism and totalitarianism are not incompatible. The former is an economic system, the latter a political system. China has married the 2.

This is your post from ten minutes ago, which I was responding to. Note how it clashes with the later post by yourself.

and since the Chinese have all become died-in-the-wool capitalists, clearly the Shinwatra cronies are truly the worse kind of communists.

Look, I was answering the earlier poster who said there is nothing communist abour redmob PTP and I provided examples. You don't live here and quite honestly if they start handing out the 'little red book' here, neither will I.

I don't live here? Funny that ...

Yunla, the second quote which was my first statement was a joke - China has a capitalist economy and the Shinawatra's are classic capitalists, hence the (joking) coincidence that proves that the Shinawatra's are communists - much like the points made in your statement to "prove" that they are communists.

I think that is absurd.

As for both statements, there is no inconsistency as it is possible to have a totalitarian government and a capitalist economy.

[phiphidon]

The PAD should just disassociate themselves from insane people

As per multiple incidents like the above.... If the Red Shirts did that, they'd lose a significant portion of their followers...

.

Tch Tch, repeat after me, redmob, redmob, redmob - c'mon buchholz get with the programmme.

[Yunla]

I don't live here? Funny that ...

Maybe you do, I remember reading that you didn't. Its was a joke because I know that I'm out of here if they take the dictatorial idolism of N.Korea etc.too much further. Where I'm from a criminal is a criminal, here he is billboarded with My Hero written over his head.

Sorry if I missed your joke. Your post was

and since the Chinese have all become died-in-the-wool capitalists, clearly the Shinwatra cronies are truly the worse kind of communists.

so I responded to that, whereupon you informed me that capitalism and totalitarianism (totalitarian communism inferred in my early post) are from different subjects, something that I really had no idea before you told me Tlansford

Edited July 4, 2012 by Yunla

[phiphidon]

I don't live here? Funny that ...

Maybe you do, I remember reading that you didn't. Its was a joke because I know that I'm out of here if they take the dictatorial idolism of N.Korea etc.too much further. Where I'm from a criminal is a criminal, here he is billboarded with My Hero written over his head.

Sorry if I missed your joke. Your post was

and since the Chinese have all become died-in-the-wool capitalists, clearly the Shinwatra cronies are truly the worse kind of communists.

so I responded to that, whereupon you informed me that capitalism and totalitarianism (totalitarianism communism inference in my early post) are from different subjects, something that I really had no idea before you told me Tlansford

I seem to remember you saying you don't live here either, not that it matters of course, unless you are using it as a stick to bash other people that is, then that would be, hmm, hypocritical?

[Buchholz]

The PAD should just disassociate themselves from insane people

As per multiple incidents like the above.... If the Red Shirts did that, they'd lose a significant portion of their followers...

.

Tch Tch, repeat after me, redmob, redmob, redmob - c'mon buchholz get with the programmme.

stop "frothing".....

.

[Yunla]

I seem to remember you saying you don't live here either, not that it matters of course, unless you are using it as a stick to bash other people that is, then that would be, hmm, hypocritical?

I have a home here and own property in two other nations far away where there are not red communist thugs trampling on people's human rights.

I live here now at this time, but not a resident. I wasn't bashing him, I was using the comment as springboard for the "I wont be either soon" joke. I remember reading he doesn't live here so I used that for a quip about my own plans. I can draw you a diagram in advance next time I make a joke so you don't miss it and get all angry by mistake.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Yunla

[tlansford]

I don't live here? Funny that ...

Maybe you do, I remember reading that you didn't. Its was a joke because I know that I'm out of here if they take the dictatorial idolism of N.Korea etc.too much further. Where I'm from a criminal is a criminal, here he is billboarded with My Hero written over his head.

Sorry if I missed your joke. Your post was

and since the Chinese have all become died-in-the-wool capitalists, clearly the Shinwatra cronies are truly the worse kind of communists.

so I responded to that, whereupon you informed me that capitalism and totalitarianism (totalitarianism communism inference in my early post) are from different subjects, something that I really had no idea before you told me Tlansford

I seem to remember you saying you don't live here either, not that it matters of course, unless you are using it as a stick to bash other people that is, then that would be, hmm, hypocritical?

Why do people posting anonymously on an internet forum care where other people live? 99.9% of the time it isn't relevant anyway. And some of us move around.

[Reasonableman]

Some even claim that they are blessed with superior knowledge by their remote location. An interesting assertion that I have never seen substantiated. But next time they tell you about the atmosphere, the threatening attitudes of the participants, the bullying, the threats, the disruption and fear at a demonstration/protest/riot, just remember they know best, because they were not there. Irrelevant, BS!

Edited July 4, 2012 by Reasonableman

[Reasonableman]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/556164-bangkok-huge-turnout-expected-at-red-shirt-rally-today/page__st__375__p__5318971#entry5318971

Interesting that birdpoos of a feather flock together. Are any of these self-appointed experts actually in Thailand, and were any actually in Bangkok during the 2010 "protests"? I guess it all looks benign and idealistic from a safe distance. No need to get your hands dirty at all, just opine and pontificate piously from a comfortable distance. Oh, apart from making another cup of coffee and a sandwich, eh? I guess every old fart needs a hobby. While other people actually have to live the reality.

"I was not in Bangkok at the time of the riots and am thankful for that. Why? Because it does mean that I can observe, read articles, take part in forums etc without that chip of "I was there at the Bangkok Riots, I'm a victim too" consistently blurring my insight.

I understand that there are some non Thais on here that were genuinely personally affected by the events in Bangkok in 2010. I have read of westerners who hate Thaksin because they lost their job/money in a telecom business he set up, another whose wife gave birth prematurely because a red shirt "literally" threw her out of bed whilst looking for snipers in Chulakorn Hospital, yet another whose cousins' sister (or something like that) gave birth in a taxi because of traffic jams caused by red shirts setting up roadblocks, there's even one guy on here who posts regularly about how he's liquidating his considerable fortune (I say considerable, because he's been "liquidating" it for over a year now) in the fear of Thaksin coming back to Thailand and yet at least one more that has promised to leave Thailand the minute Taksin appears.

OK, I understand your stance. What I don't understand are members who diss anything they don't agree with. Case in point, Why is the Guardian or CNN or any other western media so laughable as a source? Have you fed into the belief that Thais are inscrutable (they are to an extent, but not totally) and that no westerners will ever understand. To the contrary the average westerner (if they wish to) has a far more vast access to knowledge regarding the situation than the average Thai. Certain banned articles are accessible, with their associated risks.

To rely on local sources (including this forum) is to deny yourself knowledge. Why do you think the economist is not distributed within Thailand on occasion? We can't even discuss the situation fully on any public forum in Thailand. Any media source associated with the UDD was shut down (only in some cases for genuine "threat" reasons). This left State (and in some cases Army run) TV to transmit what they wanted.Did you query the army spokesman when he stated that no live bullets were fired, the army was not responsible for any deaths, the 500 men in black?. When Suthep stated that the photographs and videos clearly showing soldiers on the tracks above the Wat were taken on the 20th May, not the 19th May?

No, all that is said is the red shirts are armed and deserved to be shot dead.

So, yes, I am biased towards the UDD but I'm upfront with it and provide examples why where I can. You, you were in Bangkok "when they tried to burn it down" and were inconvenienced for a month."

• philw, kerryk, tlansford and 1 other [birdpooguava] like this
  

[Moruya]

They wouldn't have known beforehand that they needed amnesty (obviously). Therefore they could only have said they didn't want amnesty after the event. Therefore they knew that they had amnesty already (by virtue of the emergency decree) when they supposedly "repeatedly said that they don't want amnesty."

As I say, it's easy to throw down the gauntlett when your a$se is covered.

"Thaksin just fled"

From what? The challenge from abhisit and suthep to give up amnesty (even though they had it from a different source)?

No, he had already gone several years ago to avoid a dubious charge and conviction pronounced by a Junta set up investigation committee and Junta imposed judges, neither of whom known to be great fans of thaksin.

So the sentence "Thaksin just fled" is of no value to your "argument"

So when the courageous Abhisit and Suthep repeatedly refused any form of amnesty after the event you think tha they were secretly hiding behind the emergency decree wording?

Thaksin is free to return to the land of his birth any time - but he choses not to do so. Not even during his sisters premiership. We all know why - a long list of charges will get him.

In short, your hero is a common, farmyard, egg laying fowl

[binjalin]

'Buchholz'

Most of the red-shirt supporters in jail are garbage collectors, homeless people, and the mentally ill who cannot seek legal help or find enough money for bail. The People’s Centre for Information (PCI) revealed its initial investigation on the April-May crackdowns yesterday.It collected information about 169 red-shirt protesters who are now under detention in the provinces of Maha Sarakham, Ubon Ratchathani, Udon Thani, Khon Kaen, Mukdahan, Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai over charges of taking part in illegal gatherings as well as arson or terrorism.PCI discovered that most of the detained red shirts could not find lawyers or enough money for bail. Most of the detainees are garbage collectors, homeless people, and people with mental health problems.

The Nation / 2010-11-19

http://www.nationmul...--30142601.html

ah The Nation... that paragon of truth and honesty and 'straight down the middle' politically

Edited July 4, 2012 by metisdead
Posting in all capitals or in all bold, and using large or unusual fonts and colors is bad netiquette. Font reset.

[binjalin]

So when the courageous Abhisit and Suthep repeatedly refused any form of amnesty after the event you think tha they were secretly hiding behind the emergency decree wording?

soooo funny not even most yellows would go THAT far... still it made me chuckle

[Moruya]

So when the courageous Abhisit and Suthep repeatedly refused any form of amnesty after the event you think tha they were secretly hiding behind the emergency decree wording?

soooo funny not even most yellows would go THAT far... still it made me chuckle

There are hundreds of reports in the press of their position on this.

Thaksin, on the other hand, has fled the coop. (Not to be confused with the coup for those of a red persuasion)

[backtonormal]

So by what you're saying above, only red shirt protesters, journalists, medics and non aligned citizens who were "provoking" the security forces by shooting at them were shot dead?

No.

I am saying that the army did NOT "open fire unprovoked, on unarmed people".

Lets see how many were shot and killed or injured with sniper rounds. What position they were in and were they shot in the head back or front. Give us some idea of the orders. I just wonder how many were shot in the back

[Moruya]

So by what you're saying above, only red shirt protesters, journalists, medics and non aligned citizens who were "provoking" the security forces by shooting at them were shot dead?

No.

I am saying that the army did NOT "open fire unprovoked, on unarmed people".

Lets see how many were shot and killed or injured with sniper rounds. What position they were in and were they shot in the head back or front. Give us some idea of the orders. I just wonder how many were shot in the back

Wondering implies a distinct lack of facts

[Buchholz]

'Buchholz'

Most of the red-shirt supporters in jail are garbage collectors, homeless people, and the mentally ill who cannot seek legal help or find enough money for bail. The People’s Centre for Information (PCI) revealed its initial investigation on the April-May crackdowns yesterday.It collected information about 169 red-shirt protesters who are now under detention in the provinces of Maha Sarakham, Ubon Ratchathani, Udon Thani, Khon Kaen, Mukdahan, Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai over charges of taking part in illegal gatherings as well as arson or terrorism.PCI discovered that most of the detained red shirts could not find lawyers or enough money for bail. Most of the detainees are garbage collectors, homeless people, and people with mental health problems.

The Nation / 2010-11-19

http://www.nationmul...--30142601.html

ah The Nation... that paragon of truth and honesty and 'straight down the middle' politically

ahhh... binjalin... I look forward to your post quoting the PCI as saying something other than what was reported. Until then, the description of your group remains.

I also look forward to your quote that counters the description of this group of Red Shirt Arsonists:

Of the 13 men released by the Mukdahan Court, several have required treatment for mental illnesses

And a quote that disproves this description of another Red Shirt Arsonist:

"I want to go home," said Saichon, who is often described by those who knew him as not mentally sound.

p.s. I'd also like to see you master the forum's quote function, but there's no rush on that. You have plenty of quote look-ups to occupy your time.

.

.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Buchholz

[phiphidon]

http://www.thaivisa....71#entry5318971

Interesting that birdpoos of a feather flock together. Are any of these self-appointed experts actually in Thailand, and were any actually in Bangkok during the 2010 "protests"? I guess it all looks benign and idealistic from a safe distance. No need to get your hands dirty at all, just opine and pontificate piously from a comfortable distance. Oh, apart from making another cup of coffee and a sandwich, eh? I guess every old fart needs a hobby. While other people actually have to live the reality.

"I was not in Bangkok at the time of the riots and am thankful for that. Why? Because it does mean that I can observe, read articles, take part in forums etc without that chip of "I was there at the Bangkok Riots, I'm a victim too" consistently blurring my insight.

I understand that there are some non Thais on here that were genuinely personally affected by the events in Bangkok in 2010. I have read of westerners who hate Thaksin because they lost their job/money in a telecom business he set up, another whose wife gave birth prematurely because a red shirt "literally" threw her out of bed whilst looking for snipers in Chulakorn Hospital, yet another whose cousins' sister (or something like that) gave birth in a taxi because of traffic jams caused by red shirts setting up roadblocks, there's even one guy on here who posts regularly about how he's liquidating his considerable fortune (I say considerable, because he's been "liquidating" it for over a year now) in the fear of Thaksin coming back to Thailand and yet at least one more that has promised to leave Thailand the minute Taksin appears.

OK, I understand your stance. What I don't understand are members who diss anything they don't agree with. Case in point, Why is the Guardian or CNN or any other western media so laughable as a source? Have you fed into the belief that Thais are inscrutable (they are to an extent, but not totally) and that no westerners will ever understand. To the contrary the average westerner (if they wish to) has a far more vast access to knowledge regarding the situation than the average Thai. Certain banned articles are accessible, with their associated risks.

To rely on local sources (including this forum) is to deny yourself knowledge. Why do you think the economist is not distributed within Thailand on occasion? We can't even discuss the situation fully on any public forum in Thailand. Any media source associated with the UDD was shut down (only in some cases for genuine "threat" reasons). This left State (and in some cases Army run) TV to transmit what they wanted.Did you query the army spokesman when he stated that no live bullets were fired, the army was not responsible for any deaths, the 500 men in black?. When Suthep stated that the photographs and videos clearly showing soldiers on the tracks above the Wat were taken on the 20th May, not the 19th May?

No, all that is said is the red shirts are armed and deserved to be shot dead.

So, yes, I am biased towards the UDD but I'm upfront with it and provide examples why where I can. You, you were in Bangkok "when they tried to burn it down" and were inconvenienced for a month."

• philw, kerryk, tlansford and 1 other [birdpooguava] like this
  

Hey you know what, that's just what I said - So remind me, what was your point again o reasonable man? How's the shopping now?

[Moruya]

The PAD should just disassociate themselves from insane people

As per multiple incidents like the above.... If the Red Shirts did that, they'd lose a significant portion of their followers...

.

Tch Tch, repeat after me, redmob, redmob, redmob - c'mon buchholz get with the programmme.

Repeat after me.

I believe in nepotism

I believe in raping the nation

I believe that a Prime Minister can steal from the nation

I believe that in the struggle against drugs 2500 deaths are acceptable

I believe that in the struggle against Islam in the south killing hundreds is just collateral damage.

[binjalin]

'Buchholz'

Most of the red-shirt supporters in jail are garbage collectors, homeless people, and the mentally ill who cannot seek legal help or find enough money for bail. The People’s Centre for Information (PCI) revealed its initial investigation on the April-May crackdowns yesterday.It collected information about 169 red-shirt protesters who are now under detention in the provinces of Maha Sarakham, Ubon Ratchathani, Udon Thani, Khon Kaen, Mukdahan, Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai over charges of taking part in illegal gatherings as well as arson or terrorism.PCI discovered that most of the detained red shirts could not find lawyers or enough money for bail. Most of the detainees are garbage collectors, homeless people, and people with mental health problems.

The Nation / 2010-11-19

http://www.nationmul...--30142601.html

ah The Nation... that paragon of truth and honesty and 'straight down the middle' politically

ahhh... binjalin... I look forward to your post quoting the PCI as saying something other than what was reported. Until then, the description of your group remains.

I also look forward to your quote that counters the description of this group of Red Shirt Arsonists:

Of the 13 men released by the Mukdahan Court, several have required treatment for mental illnesses

And a quote that disproves this description of another Red Shirt Arsonist:

"I want to go home," said Saichon, who is often described by those who knew him as not mentally sound.

p.s. I'd also like to see you master the forum's quote function, but there's no rush on that. You have plenty of quote look-ups to occupy your time.

.

.

if 'not mentally sound' were the benchmark I fear many TVF posters might be seeing 'little men in their little white coats' pretty soon