Red Shirts Reclaim 1932 Coup Anniversary To Advance Cause

[kerryk]

I guess if you don't want a democracy and free elections that is of course your choice. If you do want a democracy and free elections you have to live with the results of the rule of the majority. Free elections, rule of law and freedom of the press. Thailand has never had any of these things.

I agree with you about free elections, rule of law and freedom of the press. I'd like to point out that majority of the Thai people don't have a problem with those things either but there are some things wrong with the government and the Red Shirt movement.

The government is choosing the benefits of a few (or one man) over the majority. They perhaps could've gone ahead with the charter amendments if they didn't include the whitewashing bit. Sacrifices had to be made and I actually don't mind compensating family members of peaceful protesters and by-standers. But what does whitewashing corruption of politicians have to do with Reconciliation? Nothing. The government can pass whatever laws they want but it is the duty of the opposition to check upon it in the legislature. They have to represent their own voters as I've been repeating myself.

The Red-shirts have gotten the idea of democracy mixed up with mob rule. They have to know that they can't use intimidation to win everything in a democracy, that's why you elect representatives to voice your concerns and not take to the streets every time something doesn't go their way ie: Red shirt leaders will gather a mob to eradicate the Democrats. This whole coup thing is being milked by the Red-shirt leaders and the government. It's like a trigger word that arouses people's emotion, negating logical reasoning to step back and look at the big picture.

I was in Thailand fighting for Thailand when the American President LBJ was killing American soldiers because of his incompetence and poor management of the war. Many of my friends died so that his partners could make money from war profiteering. But I had no choice except to wait for the next election and vote him out of office. In the next election his party lost and the war was stopped by the next American President as was the will of the majority of the American people. Still in a democracy the majority rules and many of my friends died in Thailand because the LBJ was a bad President that is one if the problems with a democracy. Democracy is not perfect but it is the best political system in the world today.

Kerry. Why were you fighting for Thailand? Weren't you fighting for America against the Vietcong?

How did your friends die in Thailand surely they died in the fighting in Vietnam?

These questions are not meant to disrespect you or your friends. Just asking for facts.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

No they died in Laos with Thai troops fighting against the Pathet Lao among others.

[whybother]

My dear chap, please explain why you deem my "Ask TheCure who wrote "Military coups are the absolute annihilation of a democracy"." impolite? I was brief and direct.. I didn't call you names, neither did I call anyone 'absolut monarchy lovers' nor 'sycophants' (like TheCure).

Furthermore if TheCure was stating a general non time specific fact, it suggests it applies to any coup, therefor also the 1932 coup being hailed by the red-shirts, or more precisely by the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship

I think it all goes back to your original statement rubl

"So, that's why Chulalongkorn University historian Asst Prof Suthachai Yimprasert, himself a red shirt, wants June 24th back as National Day, to celebrate the coup which moved power from the King to some people, thereby absolutely annihilating democracy.That makes sense."

Well it does make sense rubl, but not the way you put it. Before the '32 coup there was an absolute monarchy - not democratic, in any way, shape or form. After the '32 coup there was, a Constitutional Monarchy, the first step along the rocky road to full democracy, so something to be celebrated by the red shirts even though it took a coup to achieve it.

Does that make sense?

So what they're trying to say is "Some coups are good." (What's "spare box 2" or "9"s current nick?)

[kerryk]

1. I wasn't talking to you. 2. I was waiting for an answer from a Thai person. 3. I have never told anyone to shut up on Thai Visa. I am the polite one. I don't do that. 4. I am all in favor of non violent legal protest. 5. I am not in favor of coups, violence, or property destruction in any country for any reason.

Re point 4 & 5 (except coups). Does that mean you're against the red-shirt's illegal violent protest and their property destruction?

Maybe you should also specify who is allowed to respond to your posts, otherwise people you're "not talking to" will respond.

In answer to your question, yes I am against the violence by the red shirts, very much so.

[phiphidon]

My dear chap, please explain why you deem my "Ask TheCure who wrote "Military coups are the absolute annihilation of a democracy"." impolite? I was brief and direct.. I didn't call you names, neither did I call anyone 'absolut monarchy lovers' nor 'sycophants' (like TheCure).

Furthermore if TheCure was stating a general non time specific fact, it suggests it applies to any coup, therefor also the 1932 coup being hailed by the red-shirts, or more precisely by the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship

I think it all goes back to your original statement rubl

"So, that's why Chulalongkorn University historian Asst Prof Suthachai Yimprasert, himself a red shirt, wants June 24th back as National Day, to celebrate the coup which moved power from the King to some people, thereby absolutely annihilating democracy.That makes sense."

Well it does make sense rubl, but not the way you put it. Before the '32 coup there was an absolute monarchy - not democratic, in any way, shape or form. After the '32 coup there was, a Constitutional Monarchy, the first step along the rocky road to full democracy, so something to be celebrated by the red shirts even though it took a coup to achieve it.

Does that make sense?

So what they're trying to say is "Some coups are good." (What's "spare box 2" or "9"s current nick?)

No, it would have been better if the thai citizenry had done it on their own but at least the group of overseas educated students were useful this time. I can't imagine the current crop abandoning their crispy cremes and benzs to man the barricades.............

[rubl]

My dear chap, please explain why you deem my "Ask TheCure who wrote "Military coups are the absolute annihilation of a democracy"." impolite? I was brief and direct.. I didn't call you names, neither did I call anyone 'absolut monarchy lovers' nor 'sycophants' (like TheCure).

Furthermore if TheCure was stating a general non time specific fact, it suggests it applies to any coup, therefor also the 1932 coup being hailed by the red-shirts, or more precisely by the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship

I think it all goes back to your original statement rubl

"So, that's why Chulalongkorn University historian Asst Prof Suthachai Yimprasert, himself a red shirt, wants June 24th back as National Day, to celebrate the coup which moved power from the King to some people, thereby absolutely annihilating democracy.That makes sense."

Well it does make sense rubl, but not the way you put it. Before the '32 coup there was an absolute monarchy - not democratic, in any way, shape or form. After the '32 coup there was, a Constitutional Monarchy, the first step along the rocky road to full democracy, so something to be celebrated by the red shirts even though it took a coup to achieve it.

Does that make sense?

Now you sound like Robert A. with his anonymous witness amalgamation of bits and pieces.

Now I'm first going to read a bit on Pridi Banomyong, the most respected leader of the 1932 revolt.

BTW Shouldn't the UK, or maybe only the part effected at that time, England still celebrate the signing of the Magna Carta, the protection of feudal baron's liberties, as the long and rocky road to full democracy starting 15th of June 1215.

[TheCure]

Sorry Rubi we have a language problem. Maybe another time and another topic. Good night

Rubl ?

[Yunla]

I was in Thailand fighting for Thailand when the American President LBJ was killing American soldiers because of his incompetence and poor management of the war. Many of my friends died so that his partners could make money from war profiteering. But I had no choice except to wait for the next election and vote him out of office. In the next election his party lost and the war was stopped by the next American President as was the will of the majority of the American people. Still in a democracy the majority rules and many of my friends died in Thailand because the LBJ was a bad President that is one if the problems with a democracy. Democracy is not perfect but it is the best political system in the world today.

Leaving aside the war details which are a bit foggy, LBJ was leader of a Republic which is not the same as Democracy.

Democracy means that the people decide policy matters via ballots at their local town halls, decisions which are then moved upwards to parliament. In Republics people choose representatives who make decisions on their behalf, but to not forward their direct ballot decisions. Also the President exercises supreme head of state powers, whereas a PM in democracy is considered the same equal status under law as a janitor for example.

Thailand does not have a democracy. Before PTP arrived Thailand was a basic though flawed and unique parliamentary democracy. But under PTP the government has become autocratic and totalitarian, vacant and inert, wallowing in corruption, defiling concepts of law and justice, and stifling open democratic debate. The endgame of PTP is for their supreme leader to return anointed and glorious, surrounded by his family members and friends at the top of politics, and to do as he will. This is called Dictatorship.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Yunla

[rubl]

Sorry Rubi we have a language problem. Maybe another time and another topic. Good night

Rubl ?

That's me, also known as (Dutch) uncle rubl, always willing to offer free and unwanted advise and my own opinion

[thaicbr]

My dear chap, please explain why you deem my "Ask TheCure who wrote "Military coups are the absolute annihilation of a democracy"." impolite? I was brief and direct.. I didn't call you names, neither did I call anyone 'absolut monarchy lovers' nor 'sycophants' (like TheCure).

Furthermore if TheCure was stating a general non time specific fact, it suggests it applies to any coup, therefor also the 1932 coup being hailed by the red-shirts, or more precisely by the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship

I think it all goes back to your original statement rubl

"So, that's why Chulalongkorn University historian Asst Prof Suthachai Yimprasert, himself a red shirt, wants June 24th back as National Day, to celebrate the coup which moved power from the King to some people, thereby absolutely annihilating democracy.That makes sense."

Well it does make sense rubl, but not the way you put it. Before the '32 coup there was an absolute monarchy - not democratic, in any way, shape or form. After the '32 coup there was, a Constitutional Monarchy, the first step along the rocky road to full democracy, so something to be celebrated by the red shirts even though it took a coup to achieve it.

Does that make sense?

So with this statement the Uk is not a full democracy. Thailand will not be democracy in our lifetime. Unfortunately.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[whybother]

I was in Thailand fighting for Thailand when the American President LBJ was killing American soldiers because of his incompetence and poor management of the war. Many of my friends died so that his partners could make money from war profiteering. But I had no choice except to wait for the next election and vote him out of office. In the next election his party lost and the war was stopped by the next American President as was the will of the majority of the American people. Still in a democracy the majority rules and many of my friends died in Thailand because the LBJ was a bad President that is one if the problems with a democracy. Democracy is not perfect but it is the best political system in the world today.

Leaving aside the war details which are a bit foggy, LBJ was leader of a Republic which is not the same as Democracy.

Democracy means that the people decide policy matters via ballots at their local town halls, decisions which are then moved upwards to parliament. In Republics people choose representatives who make decisions on their behalf, but to not forward their direct ballot decisions. Also the President exercises supreme head of state powers, whereas a PM in democracy is considered the same equal status under law as a janitor for example.

Thailand does not have a democracy. Before PTP arrived Thailand was a basic though flawed and unique parliamentary democracy. But under PTP the government has become autocratic and totalitarian, vacant and inert, wallowing in corruption, defiling concepts of law and justice, and stifling open democratic debate. The endgame of PTP is for their supreme leader to return anointed and glorious, surrounded by his family members and friends at the top of politics, and to do as he will. This is called Dictatorship.

In a parliamentary system such as Thailand, MPs are all representatives of the electorate, no different to the US.

The difference between the US system and the Westminster (parliamentary) system, is that in the parliamentary system, the elected MPs elect the PM, whereas in the US, the people (indirectly) elect the President.

In some countries, such as France, they elect a President AND a Prime Minister.

[volk666]

How do these red intellectuals explain why the coup of 1932 was good but all other coups, especially 2006, are bad? Unlike 1932 the latest coup didn't claim any lives (apart from one suicide a few months later on). Unlike 1932 when people had no idea what was going on, the latest coup had a massive public support.

It seems the red leaders completely gloss over the fact that they are celebrating the first ever coup day in this country. What about their "awakened" followers - do they know they are celebrating a coup? Or are they celebrating their ignorance?

They've seemed to got carried away with "might makes right" and "if one billion Chinese do it, it can't be wrong" logic.

Couple that with "eradicate the opposition" calls and an occasional nazi t-shirt and I don't know how anyone supporting that bunch can talk about democracy.

[rubl]

How do these red intellectuals explain why the coup of 1932 was good but all other coups, especially 2006, are bad? Unlike 1932 the latest coup didn't claim any lives (apart from one suicide a few months later on). Unlike 1932 when people had no idea what was going on, the latest coup had a massive public support.

It seems the red leaders completely gloss over the fact that they are celebrating the first ever coup day in this country. What about their "awakened" followers - do they know they are celebrating a coup? Or are they celebrating their ignorance?

They've seemed to got carried away with "might makes right" and "if one billion Chinese do it, it can't be wrong" logic.

Couple that with "eradicate the opposition" calls and an occasional nazi t-shirt and I don't know how anyone supporting that bunch can talk about democracy.

Having read a (little) bit on Pridi Banomyong, the most respected leader of the 1932 revolt, I'm puzzled why the red-shirts like him, or should I say the UDD

This part from wiki "In 1933, Pridi went into voluntary exile when his radical economic plans, which called for the nationalisation of all land and labour, were violently rejected by many^{[who?][citation needed]} as extreme and allegedly communist." suggests a red color, but the description of the 'Protectors' with "The Promoters realized, ironically, as the King's advisors had done, that the Siamese people were not yet ready for democracy, and most were illiterate peasants with little concern for affairs in Bangkok." suggests a link to the rightwingers within the PAD.

http://en.wikipedia....Pridi_Banomyong

http://en.wikipedia....olution_of_1932

edit: correct spelling, typos. Need to learn the language one of these days.

Edited June 22, 2012 by rubl

[AleG]

How do these red intellectuals explain why the coup of 1932 was good but all other coups, especially 2006, are bad? Unlike 1932 the latest coup didn't claim any lives (apart from one suicide a few months later on). Unlike 1932 when people had no idea what was going on, the latest coup had a massive public support.

It seems the red leaders completely gloss over the fact that they are celebrating the first ever coup day in this country. What about their "awakened" followers - do they know they are celebrating a coup? Or are they celebrating their ignorance?

They've seemed to got carried away with "might makes right" and "if one billion Chinese do it, it can't be wrong" logic.

Couple that with "eradicate the opposition" calls and an occasional nazi t-shirt and I don't know how anyone supporting that bunch can talk about democracy.

They'll celebrate and support whatever Thaksin's PR and perception management teams come up with in order to steer the masses into doing his bidding.

[letitbe]

This gets sillier day by day why not just suspend all laws and hand the country to Taksin. Were even more determined now to sell rest of our assets here except the house and maybe the rice paddies. Weve mad a lot here with our investments over last 18 or so years and lived through several coups and 1997 crash with no real worries but for first time we are now seriously concerned and think risk of either a civil war or taksin dictatorship likely. We only hope army will step in soon and stop this madness again but this time totally destroy the reds and if they can Taksin and all his henchmen. Then and only then will we start bringing money back in from Singapore and Hong Kong.

We disposed of another 10 % of our assets here in the last month at least 20% below normal market value just to get more out quickly. In last 18 months weve now liquidated around 70% of our assets here and plan to liquidate rest over next year or so. We wont leave unless it gets really bad and here theirs a start to pol pot reeducation type camps but that has already started with red villages and districts. We live in a total red shirt area and no one would dare say anything but as yet in our area their are not red flags on every house. We visited a friend of my wifes not far from where we live and in that area every house had a red flag and we even had to go through a road block of reds. My wifes friend is scared silly since she hates the reds but feels she cant leave since the families only assets are farm and house in that area. She said shed sell if she could but no one wants to pay any proper price and she knows several also desperate to get out.

Very sad and if it continues and we suddenly find ourselves in a total red shirt zone well have to escape initially to a very small rough house we have near Cha am and just hope it gets better.

Why is this allowed to continue but then I suppose Hitler did it step by step until the people's eyes opened and then to late he had complete control.

[Yunla]

How do these red intellectuals explain why the coup of 1932 was good but all other coups, especially 2006, are bad? Unlike 1932 the latest coup didn't claim any lives (apart from one suicide a few months later on). Unlike 1932 when people had no idea what was going on, the latest coup had a massive public support.

It seems the red leaders completely gloss over the fact that they are celebrating the first ever coup day in this country. What about their "awakened" followers - do they know they are celebrating a coup? Or are they celebrating their ignorance?

They've seemed to got carried away with "might makes right" and "if one billion Chinese do it, it can't be wrong" logic.

Couple that with "eradicate the opposition" calls and an occasional nazi t-shirt and I don't know how anyone supporting that bunch can talk about democracy.

I think the redmob are celebrating (perhaps unconsciously) the era of the 1932 coup, rather than the coup tself. As I said in my first post in this thread, 1932 was a very unique time in agrarian populism and zero-accountability totalitarian red states in nearby China and Russia. I see PTP as basically a bunch of petty tyrants and thugs, who would have been so much happier in 1932 with no internet, no busybody reporters or independant-minded citizens. In 1932 Arisman would not have had to escape from a hotel balcony during his gang's armed uprising, and there would have been no shameful photographs in the newspapers of his fat communist posterior swinging around in midair. 1930s era communism was the glory days of tyranny without accountability.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Yunla

[Orac]

How do these red intellectuals explain why the coup of 1932 was good but all other coups, especially 2006, are bad? Unlike 1932 the latest coup didn't claim any lives (apart from one suicide a few months later on). Unlike 1932 when people had no idea what was going on, the latest coup had a massive public support.

It seems the red leaders completely gloss over the fact that they are celebrating the first ever coup day in this country. What about their "awakened" followers - do they know they are celebrating a coup? Or are they celebrating their ignorance?

They've seemed to got carried away with "might makes right" and "if one billion Chinese do it, it can't be wrong" logic.

Couple that with "eradicate the opposition" calls and an occasional nazi t-shirt and I don't know how anyone supporting that bunch can talk about democracy.

Having read a (little) bit on Pridi Banomyong, the most respected leader of the 1932 revolt, I'm puzzled why the red-shirts like him, or should I say the UDD

This part from wiki "In 1933, Pridi went into voluntary exile when his radical economic plans, which called for the nationalisation of all land and labour, were violently rejected by many^{[who?][citation needed]} as extreme and allegedly communist." suggests a red color, but the description of the 'Protectors' with "The Promoters realized, ironically, as the King's advisors had done, that the Siamese people were not yet ready for democracy, and most were illiterate peasants with little concern for affairs in Bangkok." suggests a link to the rightwingers within the PAD.

http://en.wikipedia....Pridi_Banomyong

http://en.wikipedia....olution_of_1932

edit: correct spelling, typos. Need to learn the language one of these days.

It could be the later part of his career that the reds identify with where he was hounded out of office with basically a smeer campaign which appears to have been orchestrated to some degree by the newly formed democrat party and ended up as a fugitive/exile abroad.

[Moruya]

They? You mean the majority that voted for the current government? I didn't think you liked the result of having the the Thai people vote.

Could you please stop it with the 'majority' BS!? If there were 30,000,000 eligible voters and the government got 15,000,001 and the opposition got 14,999,999 votes, the former becomes the majority. Screw the other freaking 14,999,999 voters right? Seriously get out of here with that crap. In this case the Democrats got 11,433,762 votes in 2010. That's a hefty amount of people don't you think?! They have every right to voice their opinion and rely on the opposition to do their job without inciting violence unlike the Red Shirts. Tell me, within the last year of Yingluck governance, have the Democrats called on violence even once!?

I'm Thai, my family is Thai, I have friends that are Thai and being told "ohh why don't you just let the government do its job and bring Thaksin back" by people who burned the freaking city I was born in is damning. How would they like it if we go burn their crops and farms for politically motivated reasons.

Now that the PTP is the government <deleted> do they need to rely on holding mass rallies to disrupt traffic and further cause intimidation? What the hell is the point of even having MPs elected if they can just have mob rule? I should take a chill pill but seriously, this is getting out of hand especially now on the other thread about Justice Ministry wanting to grant 26 million of tax payers money to bail out arsonists? These people are criminals! If they have the violent mentality to set aflame and rob malls, what other criminal activities might they do in the future!? Get the F out of here Red Shirts and this stupid government.

I guess we should agree on our terms. The current government and its coalition partners represent the majority of voters participating in the last election? Yes or No? There was no other party in the last election getting more votes? Yes or No?

So if they pass a vote to hang you from the nearest tree that's OK?

[kerryk]

They? You mean the majority that voted for the current government? I didn't think you liked the result of having the the Thai people vote.

Could you please stop it with the 'majority' BS!? If there were 30,000,000 eligible voters and the government got 15,000,001 and the opposition got 14,999,999 votes, the former becomes the majority. Screw the other freaking 14,999,999 voters right? Seriously get out of here with that crap. In this case the Democrats got 11,433,762 votes in 2010. That's a hefty amount of people don't you think?! They have every right to voice their opinion and rely on the opposition to do their job without inciting violence unlike the Red Shirts. Tell me, within the last year of Yingluck governance, have the Democrats called on violence even once!?

I'm Thai, my family is Thai, I have friends that are Thai and being told "ohh why don't you just let the government do its job and bring Thaksin back" by people who burned the freaking city I was born in is damning. How would they like it if we go burn their crops and farms for politically motivated reasons.

Now that the PTP is the government <deleted> do they need to rely on holding mass rallies to disrupt traffic and further cause intimidation? What the hell is the point of even having MPs elected if they can just have mob rule? I should take a chill pill but seriously, this is getting out of hand especially now on the other thread about Justice Ministry wanting to grant 26 million of tax payers money to bail out arsonists? These people are criminals! If they have the violent mentality to set aflame and rob malls, what other criminal activities might they do in the future!? Get the F out of here Red Shirts and this stupid government.

I guess we should agree on our terms. The current government and its coalition partners represent the majority of voters participating in the last election? Yes or No? There was no other party in the last election getting more votes? Yes or No?

So if they pass a vote to hang you from the nearest tree that's OK?

I have said on a number of occasions that Thailand needs a rule of law and freedom of speech and press to go along with a democracy. One does not work without the other. Did I answer your question?

[Moruya]

So if they pass a vote to hang you from the nearest tree that's OK?

I have said on a number of occasions that Thailand needs a rule of law and freedom of speech and press to go along with a democracy. One does not work without the other. Did I answer your question?

I'm not disappointed.

[volk666]

How do these red intellectuals explain why the coup of 1932 was good but all other coups, especially 2006, are bad? Unlike 1932 the latest coup didn't claim any lives (apart from one suicide a few months later on). Unlike 1932 when people had no idea what was going on, the latest coup had a massive public support.

It seems the red leaders completely gloss over the fact that they are celebrating the first ever coup day in this country. What about their "awakened" followers - do they know they are celebrating a coup? Or are they celebrating their ignorance?

They've seemed to got carried away with "might makes right" and "if one billion Chinese do it, it can't be wrong" logic.

Couple that with "eradicate the opposition" calls and an occasional nazi t-shirt and I don't know how anyone supporting that bunch can talk about democracy.

Having read a (little) bit on Pridi Banomyong, the most respected leader of the 1932 revolt, I'm puzzled why the red-shirts like him, or should I say the UDD

This part from wiki "In 1933, Pridi went into voluntary exile when his radical economic plans, which called for the nationalisation of all land and labour, were violently rejected by many^{[who?][citation needed]} as extreme and allegedly communist." suggests a red color, but the description of the 'Protectors' with "The Promoters realized, ironically, as the King's advisors had done, that the Siamese people were not yet ready for democracy, and most were illiterate peasants with little concern for affairs in Bangkok." suggests a link to the rightwingers within the PAD.

http://en.wikipedia....Pridi_Banomyong

http://en.wikipedia....olution_of_1932

edit: correct spelling, typos. Need to learn the language one of these days.

Another thing I don't understand is why reds so hung up on Pridi instead of celebrating Phibul who came to the power as the result of the 1932 coup, ruled the country as military dictator for nearly twenty years and established not democracy but fascism. How come they brush out this inconvenient result of that coup from the history?

As usual - reds say one thing but in reality it turns out exactly the opposite. Surely they can't be THAT dumb, can they?

[kerryk]

How do these red intellectuals explain why the coup of 1932 was good but all other coups, especially 2006, are bad? Unlike 1932 the latest coup didn't claim any lives (apart from one suicide a few months later on). Unlike 1932 when people had no idea what was going on, the latest coup had a massive public support.

It seems the red leaders completely gloss over the fact that they are celebrating the first ever coup day in this country. What about their "awakened" followers - do they know they are celebrating a coup? Or are they celebrating their ignorance?

They've seemed to got carried away with "might makes right" and "if one billion Chinese do it, it can't be wrong" logic.

Couple that with "eradicate the opposition" calls and an occasional nazi t-shirt and I don't know how anyone supporting that bunch can talk about democracy.

Having read a (little) bit on Pridi Banomyong, the most respected leader of the 1932 revolt, I'm puzzled why the red-shirts like him, or should I say the UDD

This part from wiki "In 1933, Pridi went into voluntary exile when his radical economic plans, which called for the nationalisation of all land and labour, were violently rejected by many^{[who?][citation needed]} as extreme and allegedly communist." suggests a red color, but the description of the 'Protectors' with "The Promoters realized, ironically, as the King's advisors had done, that the Siamese people were not yet ready for democracy, and most were illiterate peasants with little concern for affairs in Bangkok." suggests a link to the rightwingers within the PAD.

http://en.wikipedia....Pridi_Banomyong

http://en.wikipedia....olution_of_1932

edit: correct spelling, typos. Need to learn the language one of these days.

Another thing I don't understand is why reds so hung up on Pridi instead of celebrating Phibul who came to the power as the result of the 1932 coup, ruled the country as military dictator for nearly twenty years and established not democracy but fascism. How come they brush out this inconvenient result of that coup from the history?

As usual - reds say one thing but in reality it turns out exactly the opposite. Surely they can't be THAT dumb, can they?

It is a fascinating story but I don't think you want to get into it in print and for sure don't talk about it to Thai people that you don't know very well.

[phiphidon]

My dear chap, please explain why you deem my "Ask TheCure who wrote "Military coups are the absolute annihilation of a democracy"." impolite? I was brief and direct.. I didn't call you names, neither did I call anyone 'absolut monarchy lovers' nor 'sycophants' (like TheCure).

Furthermore if TheCure was stating a general non time specific fact, it suggests it applies to any coup, therefor also the 1932 coup being hailed by the red-shirts, or more precisely by the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship

I think it all goes back to your original statement rubl

"So, that's why Chulalongkorn University historian Asst Prof Suthachai Yimprasert, himself a red shirt, wants June 24th back as National Day, to celebrate the coup which moved power from the King to some people, thereby absolutely annihilating democracy.That makes sense."

Well it does make sense rubl, but not the way you put it. Before the '32 coup there was an absolute monarchy - not democratic, in any way, shape or form. After the '32 coup there was, a Constitutional Monarchy, the first step along the rocky road to full democracy, so something to be celebrated by the red shirts even though it took a coup to achieve it.

Does that make sense?

Now you sound like Robert A. with his anonymous witness amalgamation of bits and pieces.

Now I'm first going to read a bit on Pridi Banomyong, the most respected leader of the 1932 revolt.

BTW Shouldn't the UK, or maybe only the part effected at that time, England still celebrate the signing of the Magna Carta, the protection of feudal baron's liberties, as the long and rocky road to full democracy starting 15th of June 1215.

I was trying to make it simple, Before: No democracy, Afterwards: some semblance of a democracy with a future of improvements ahead.

As far as the magna carta goes, that is not as important as haebus corpus which was "written" before the magna carta and is remembered every day in the UK and most of the "civilised world". It was the first "law" that limited the power of State. The magna carta "merely" recorded the laws that already existed.

No doubt some history buff will add their 10 bahts worth and are welcome to (but not in this thread, you can PM me)

[animatic]

So they want to 'reclaim' something they never had,

that was done for reasons they clearly don't understand,

in suport of people who don't really care, for a cause that is

both mis-labled after the fact, of the reasons for it's causation,

and grandly mis-construed at what it accomplished.

They attempt to celebrate a partial attempted coup as reasons

to never have coups again in the name of democracy, which wasn't

the goal at the time, just a compromise short of the socialist goal,

that has been papered over by time. Bravo, brava, bravoid.

Own goal by the red intellectual cadres yet again.

[metisdead]

This topic is about Red Shirts Reclaim 1932 Coup Anniversary To Advance Cause, discussion of the 2008 PAD airport closure would be another topic altogether. Off topic posts have been removed.

[ThaiOats]

I have said on a number of occasions that Thailand needs a rule of law and freedom of speech and press to go along with a democracy. One does not work without the other. Did I answer your question?

You're also forgetting good morals. Without good morals, anything can still become a law such as stealing, mass rape, etc.. after all, if the majority of the village folks raises hand to 'share' your wealth if they feel impoverished or share your wife when they feel the urge to, it can become a law can it not? As such, if there were no morals, arson and murder might as well be legal. Now from a moralistic point of view, is it okay to bring weapons into a city where other peaceful citizens disagree with your stance to cause chaos and is it okay to grant bail to these convicted criminals with the same citizens' tax money?

[volk666]

Another thing I don't understand is why reds so hung up on Pridi instead of celebrating Phibul who came to the power as the result of the 1932 coup, ruled the country as military dictator for nearly twenty years and established not democracy but fascism. How come they brush out this inconvenient result of that coup from the history?

As usual - reds say one thing but in reality it turns out exactly the opposite. Surely they can't be THAT dumb, can they?

It is a fascinating story but I don't think you want to get into it in print and for sure don't talk about it to Thai people that you don't know very well.

I thought they leave no stones unturned in their quest for democracy. At least that's what they say.

I just checked Pibul's page on wiki, this is what they say, emphasis mine:

1932 Revolution

Phibunsongkhram was one of the leaders of the military branch of the People's Party (Khana Ratsadon) that staged a coup d'état and overthrew the absolute monarchy in 1932. Then-Lieutenant Colonel Phibunsongkhram rose to prominence as a man-on-horseback.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaek_Phibunsongkhram

Perhaps there are other places there where this revolution is called a coup. In itself it doesn't make it better or worse, the point is reds and their academics omit this side of the "revolution" in their speeches, and that includes sympathetic journalists like Prawit who wrote the original article and who dedicated his life to promoting freedom of knowledge.

The hypocrisy here is mind boggling.

[kerryk]

Another thing I don't understand is why reds so hung up on Pridi instead of celebrating Phibul who came to the power as the result of the 1932 coup, ruled the country as military dictator for nearly twenty years and established not democracy but fascism. How come they brush out this inconvenient result of that coup from the history?

As usual - reds say one thing but in reality it turns out exactly the opposite. Surely they can't be THAT dumb, can they?

It is a fascinating story but I don't think you want to get into it in print and for sure don't talk about it to Thai people that you don't know very well.

I thought they leave no stones unturned in their quest for democracy. At least that's what they say.

I just checked Pibul's page on wiki, this is what they say, emphasis mine:

1932 Revolution

Phibunsongkhram was one of the leaders of the military branch of the People's Party (Khana Ratsadon) that staged a coup d'état and overthrew the absolute monarchy in 1932. Then-Lieutenant Colonel Phibunsongkhram rose to prominence as a man-on-horseback.

http://en.wikipedia....Phibunsongkhram

Perhaps there are other places there where this revolution is called a coup. In itself it doesn't make it better or worse, the point is reds and their academics omit this side of the "revolution" in their speeches, and that includes sympathetic journalists like Prawit who wrote the original article and who dedicated his life to promoting freedom of knowledge.

The hypocrisy here is mind boggling.

How so?

[volk666]

Umm, omitting that the 1932 revolution ushered in not the era of democracy and freedom but fascism and dictatorship? Omitting that 1932 revolution was not much different than any other subsequent coup?

People who got quoted here are very aware of Pibul's legacy, they just choose not to talk about it while shamelessly preaching freedom of thought and freedom of access to knowledge, especially in Prawit's case. He's the one endlessly harping how people have been brainwashed by the establishment. In this article he is doing exactly the same thing he's accusing "ultra-royalists" of - presenting one sided view of the history.

[animatic]

Umm, omitting that the 1932 revolution ushered in not the era of democracy and freedom but fascism and dictatorship? Omitting that 1932 revolution was not much different than any other subsequent coup?

People who got quoted here are very aware of Pibul's legacy, they just choose not to talk about it while shamelessly preaching freedom of thought and freedom of access to knowledge, especially in Prawit's case. He's the one endlessly harping how people have been brainwashed by the establishment. In this article he is doing exactly the same thing he's accusing "ultra-royalists" of - presenting one sided view of the history.

A revolution is a coup that has now become a state religion.

[phiphidon]

Umm, omitting that the 1932 revolution ushered in not the era of democracy and freedom but fascism and dictatorship? Omitting that 1932 revolution was not much different than any other subsequent coup?

People who got quoted here are very aware of Pibul's legacy, they just choose not to talk about it while shamelessly preaching freedom of thought and freedom of access to knowledge, especially in Prawit's case. He's the one endlessly harping how people have been brainwashed by the establishment. In this article he is doing exactly the same thing he's accusing "ultra-royalists" of - presenting one sided view of the history.

And with your wiki knowledge you make it sound like the the '32 revolution immediately ushered in Pibuls dictatorship. He didn't become PM until 1935. Pridi was responsible for the first attempt at a constitution for a constitutional monarchy, certainly something to celebrate. The fact that Pibul acted like he did does not take away from the original triumph.