Grammar Debate With My Wife!

[ajw1982]

Hi,

I've been learning Thai for a while but really casually. Now started taking it more seriously. My vocab is reasonable but I think I need to get more into the grammar to learn how to construct sentences a little better.

My wife (Thai) is helping to teach me and she thinks I should just try to develop it naturally through speaking with her. Her point being that when she learnt English she was taught English they didn't bother much with the grammar and focussed on learning through speaking and listening.

I'm at a threshold of really taking my Thai to the next level and was hoping for some input from people on ways of improving fluency / sentence construction etc.

PS I've seen the various grammar books - Smyth one, Higbie one etc. and will probably pick one of them up.

[sysardman]

I agree with your wife although I'm not an expert, Thai is a crazy language and I've tried a few books but what they can't teach is the tones and regional variations. Most Thais also learn thai (not just English) by speaking and listening. I've found that using a book can't give you that experience, I was listening to a catchy song the other day and I asked my wife why the singer was singing about teeth - she laughed at my stupidity and said it's 'dream,dream,dream' (fan,fan,fan) but fan is also the same for teeth. I also met one of my wifes friends who said she was teaching English in Japan, when she spoke to me in 'English' I couldn't understand a word she said!!!!

[richsilver]

Check out this interesting blog in the Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/the-wrong-and-right-way-to-learn-a-foreign-language/2012/06/16/gJQAK2xBhV_blog.html

[sysardman]

Check out this interesting blog in the Washington Post.

http://www.washingto...2xBhV_blog.html

Looks like I'm in the silent period

[ajw1982]

Check out this interesting blog in the Washington Post.

http://www.washingto...2xBhV_blog.html

That's very interesting! Definitely agree that speaking the language really excels learning. I think perhaps some basic grammar is necessary but perhaps in the context of speaking (e.g. ask, why do you say it like x and not like y?) It's a long term project for sure and might take a mixed approach... e.g. try and learn some basic grammar whilst continuing to speak and read and learn through inference.

In all honesty my English grammar isn't that good. I could explain to someone how to say something but if I had to break it down into a grammatical rule citing verbs, pronouns etc. etc. I'd probably struggle!

[sysardman]

Have you tried this site before you go out buying books http://www.learningthai.com/ it's all free and a great resource for beginners to advanced (and no I don't have any connection to them - just recommending).

Check out the talking books link - it's a load of childrens' stories read by schoolkids, it really shows how different the written and spoken words are. Sometimes you think you're reading a different text to them and it shows how they appear to skip words or syllables completely.

Also try cutting and pasting the Thai text into the thai2english website translator and compare it to the translation provided below the Thai text.

Edited June 22, 2012 by sysardman

[bankruatsteve]

If you're learning Thai from your wife, then you will eventually develope a ThaiGlish vocabulary that both of you understand. To take it further maybe require professional teacher. I really doubt you can get that from a book on your own. Learning to read Thai will help a LOT.

[sysardman]

If you're learning Thai from your wife, then you will eventually develope a ThaiGlish vocabulary that both of you understand. To take it further maybe require professional teacher. I really doubt you can get that from a book on your own. Learning to read Thai will help a LOT.

With dedication and hard work, it's all free on the web. I'm always dubious about these so called 'professionals'. As I mentioned before I've met Thai english teachers that I can't understand anything they say, I've met an Aussie english teacher that with such a 'strilian' drawl that I thought her Thai students would really struggle with real english. Unfortunately the teaching route is the easy way out for many visa seekers that the world is rife with these 'false disciples'. As the saying goes England, America, Australia = 3 countries divided by a common language.

[ajw1982]

Have you tried this site before you go out buying books http://www.learningthai.com/ it's all free and a great resource for beginners to advanced (and no I don't have any connection to them - just recommending).

Check out the talking books link - it's a load of childrens' stories read by schoolkids, it really shows how different the written and spoken words are. Sometimes you think you're reading a different text to them and it shows how they appear to skip words or syllables completely.

Also try cutting and pasting the Thai text into the thai2english website translator and compare it to the translation provided below the Thai text.

Hmm... does look good. I've also found www.thai-language.com to be really helpful. I do a lot of study on the train to work so may also pick up a book that can be used as a reference.

[ajw1982]

If you're learning Thai from your wife, then you will eventually develope a ThaiGlish vocabulary that both of you understand. To take it further maybe require professional teacher. I really doubt you can get that from a book on your own. Learning to read Thai will help a LOT.

With dedication and hard work, it's all free on the web. I'm always dubious about these so called 'professionals'. As I mentioned before I've met Thai english teachers that I can't understand anything they say, I've met an Aussie english teacher that with such a 'strilian' drawl that I thought her Thai students would really struggle with real english. Unfortunately the teaching route is the easy way out for many visa seekers that the world is rife with these 'false disciples'. As the saying goes England, America, Australia = 3 countries divided by a common language.

Thanks. I think learning with my wife should take me quite far. Definitely don't want to give the impression I'm learning only from a book, more as a study reference as I go along (along with the mp3s)... have been using the Benjawan Boomsan Becker, Thai for Beginners book. Also watching a lot of thai movies with English subtitles to try and help (can't really stomach the lakorns though!!!)

I can read Thai, down to understanding what tones words are etc. so I think I'm at a beginner - intermediate level (e.g. can communicate with wife's mum who doesn't speak English). It's getting over that threshold. Plan is to get good enough that when I eventually move to Thailand (3 - 5 years) I can become fully proficient by throwing myself into it.

[sysardman]

If you're learning Thai from your wife, then you will eventually develope a ThaiGlish vocabulary that both of you understand. To take it further maybe require professional teacher. I really doubt you can get that from a book on your own. Learning to read Thai will help a LOT.

With dedication and hard work, it's all free on the web. I'm always dubious about these so called 'professionals'. As I mentioned before I've met Thai english teachers that I can't understand anything they say, I've met an Aussie english teacher that with such a 'strilian' drawl that I thought her Thai students would really struggle with real english. Unfortunately the teaching route is the easy way out for many visa seekers that the world is rife with these 'false disciples'. As the saying goes England, America, Australia = 3 countries divided by a common language.

Thanks. I think learning with my wife should take me quite far. Definitely don't want to give the impression I'm learning only from a book, more as a study reference as I go along (along with the mp3s)... have been using the Benjawan Boomsan Becker, Thai for Beginners book. Also watching a lot of thai movies with English subtitles to try and help (can't really stomach the lakorns though!!!)

I can read Thai, down to understanding what tones words are etc. so I think I'm at a beginner - intermediate level (e.g. can communicate with wife's mum who doesn't speak English). It's getting over that threshold. Plan is to get good enough that when I eventually move to Thailand (3 - 5 years) I can become fully proficient by throwing myself into it.

Glad to be of help - you sound to be doing better than me but then I'm a lazy B'stard. The trick I mentioned about cutting and pasting the Thai and then comparing it to their translation shows that to us westerners it just looks like they've loaded the words into a scattergun and fired it at the wall. Then the fact that they don't put spaces between words and put vowels in front of, below, above and rarely in the logical place ie after the preceding letter - my head's hurting just typing this and thinking about it. Best of luck, i'm going to have a lie down

Edited June 22, 2012 by sysardman

[tombkk]

In theory, I support the idea of learning a language by ear, as children do. In practice, I always ask how to spell a word when I hear a new Thai word.

This is not only about the tone, which I can derive easier from the spelling (i.e. my eye) than from hearing (i.e. my ear). It is also about me learning visually - I simply cannot remember new vocabulary if I haven't seen it.

I was fluent in Bahasa when I travelled in Indonesia for a month, and I was fluent in Turkish when I travelled there for a month. Alas, my bug trip was 30 years ago, so I don't remember any word (you need to practice a language, otherwise you forget it). The reason was that I could read the signs.

It took me a while to read Thai, that's why it took longer for me to learn the language. I am fluent to the extent of business negotiations now. I lived for three years in a Chinese-speaking country and the only reason I am not fluent in Mandarin is the script. Chinese grammar is much easier than Thai.

[Deserted]

In basic terms, vocabulary will help achieve fluency, grammar will help improve accuracy. You need grammar but it should always have a secondary role.