Thai 'Red Shirts' Stage Mass Protest In Bangkok

[webfact]

Thai 'Red Shirts' stage mass protest in Bangkok

Bangkok, June 25, 2012 (AFP) - Tens of thousands of supporters of Thailand's "Red Shirt" protest movement staged a mass rally in Bangkok on Sunday, police said, amid renewed political tensions in the troubled kingdom.

The Reds, who are broadly loyal to fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra, marked the 80th anniversary of the coup that ended Thailand's absolute monarchy with a call for the judiciary to stay out of politics.

"Today we mark the 80th anniversary and show our concern over threats to democracy. Let's prepare for an unfinished fight," Red Shirt leader Kokaew Pikulthong told the crowd near the capital's Democracy Monument.

Thailand has seen about 20 attempted or actual coups since 1932, he noted.

"In recent years they have changed from military to judicial coups," he said, arguing that Thaksin and his allies had been unfairly targeted.

An estimated 30,000 people had joined the rally by early evening, a special branch police officer told AFP.

The country has been riven by political tensions since Thaksin was ousted by royalist generals in a 2006 coup.

Judicial rulings have played a pivotal role, with courts forcing two pro-Thaksin premiers from office in 2008.

Mass opposition protests by the Red Shirts in April and May 2010 paralysed parts of central Bangkok, triggering a military crackdown that left more than 90 people dead in the country's worst civil unrest in decades.

Thaksin, a former telecoms tycoon who lives in Dubai to avoid a jail term for corruption, is loved by many rural and poor Thais for his populist policies while in power, but hated by the elite who see him as a threat to the monarchy.

His sister Yingluck Shinawatra is now prime minister following a landslide election win by her brother's party last year.

This month her party postponed voting in parliament on controversial "reconciliation" proposals strongly opposed by opposition MPs, who fear they will be used to grant an amnesty to Thaksin.

The government's moves have also put it at odds with the judiciary: the Constitutional Court ordered a halt to voting on a charter amendment bill after a complaint by senators that it aimed to overthrow the monarchy.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2012-06-25

[Buchholz]

"Let's prepare for an unfinished fight," Red Shirt leader Kokaew Pikulthong told the crowd near the capital's Democracy Monument.

Too bad AFP missed the opportunity to assist the reader by putting things in perspective by failing to note that "Red Shirt Leader Kokaew" is a Pheu Thai Party Member of Parliament, the political party in power.

That he is under multiple criminal indictments and is currently free on bail would also be helpful to know, particularly in light of his words that he's not through with fighting.

.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Buchholz

[webfact]

Thai "red shirts" rally as constitutional clash looms

By Amy Sawitta Lefevre

BANGKOK: (Reuters) -- Thailand's "red shirts" turned out in force on Sunday to warn the judiciary they will not stand by if a plan to amend the constitution is rejected, a rewrite critics say is aimed at allowing exiled former premier Thaksin Shinawatra to come home.

The current prime minister is Yingluck Shinawatra, Thaksin's sister. Her administration, including leaders of the red shirt protest group, describe the amendments and related amnesty moves as part of reconciliation plans to end a seven-year crisis.

The Constitutional Court is examining arguments that the government's amendments could threaten Thailand's constitutional monarchy. A final decision is expected in July, which will determine whether the debate can go ahead in August. The present constitution was brought in under a military government in 2007 after Thaksin was ousted in a coup the previous year.

According to police estimates, 35,000 red shirts had gathered at Democracy Monument in central Bangkok by late afternoon, many from Thaksin strongholds in the north and northeast, meeting in a festive atmosphere under light police presence.

Full story: http://www.reuters.c...E85N08520120624

-- REUTERS 2012-06-25

[Buchholz]

The current prime minister is Yingluck Shinawatra, Thaksin's sister. Her administration, including leaders of the red shirt protest group

A better job by Reuters acknowledging the connection.

The linked article also brings up the aspect that the connection is troubled by Yingluck's government adamant refusal to appease the Red Shirts demand that the LM law be amended.

Perhaps the "democratic movement" can select a date in the future for a Red Shirt Rally to threaten the Pheu Thai government with more of their "fighting" in order to see their demands met in the name of "reconciliation."

.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Buchholz

[Yunla]

The Reds, who are broadly loyal to fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra, marked the 80th anniversary

Also from 80 years ago;

"The most outstanding thing about our people is that they are "poor and blank". This may seem a bad thing, but in reality it is a good thing. Poverty gives rise to the desire for changes, the desire for action and the desire for revolution. On a blank sheet of paper free from any mark, the freshest and most beautiful characters can be written, the freshest and most beautiful pictures can be painted." (Mao Tse Tung.)

Edited June 25, 2012 by Yunla

[birdpooguava]

We can clearly see the public sentiment when around 5,000 yellow shirts come out to oppose the legislation and then 35,000 reds come out to support it. The constitutional court's biased to roadblock the legislation is based on an accusation that the legislation will change the constitutional monarchy which is obviously not the intention of the charter rewrite.

The 2007 constitution enacted by an unconstitutional, unelected government only barely passed a referendum after a massive state funded propaganda campaign to support it.

[animatic]

We can clearly see the public sentiment when around 5,000 yellow shirts come out to oppose the legislation and then 35,000 reds come out to support it. The constitutional court's biased to roadblock the legislation is based on an accusation that the legislation will change the constitutional monarchy which is obviously not the intention of the charter rewrite.

The 2007 constitution enacted by an unconstitutional, unelected government only barely passed a referendum after a massive state funded propaganda campaign to support it.

Giving Thaksin a free pass for his crimes is tantamount to rewriting the constitution for one man, at the expense of the existing constitutional structure.

The 2007 constitution was 'formulated by an interim government',

but 'ENACTED by the people of Thailand' in a country wide referendum.

The ones complaining about it now are the ones who didn't profit enough by it.

The best interests of the nation are always trumped by the self-interests of influential parties.

The referendum run up was parallleled by both pro and con propaganda

to disinform, AND straight information campaigns to inform, the public.

Very similar to both extreme sides current propaganda blathering today,

and many rational voices of reality at the present moment.

When it comes to veracity and talk combined ; follow the money.

Where the most money is spent the least truth is found.

Edited June 25, 2012 by animatic

[David006]

The Reds, who are broadly loyal to fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra, marked the 80th anniversary

Also from 80 years ago;

"The most outstanding thing about our people is that they are "poor and blank". This may seem a bad thing, but in reality it is a good thing. Poverty gives rise to the desire for changes, the desire for action and the desire for revolution. On a blank sheet of paper free from any mark, the freshest and most beautiful characters can be written, the freshest and most beautiful pictures can be painted." (Mao Tse Tung.)

very 1984......the plebs will never rise up...MiniTrue etc...

[Reasonableman]

We can clearly see the public sentiment when around 5,000 yellow shirts come out to oppose the legislation and then 35,000 reds come out to support it. The constitutional court's biased to roadblock the legislation is based on an accusation that the legislation will change the constitutional monarchy which is obviously not the intention of the charter rewrite.

The 2007 constitution enacted by an unconstitutional, unelected government only barely passed a referendum after a massive state funded propaganda campaign to support it.

"Public sentiment". What a fatuous self-serving remark. In fact, the vast majority of Thais have never been consulted about their sentiment. They probably want peace, stability, security, prosperity, and happiness. What we see, however, is the ostensible sentiment of two self-appointed, unrepresentative, pressure groups, which promote none of these needs, and are quite unrepresentative of public sentiment. Neither reds nor yellows were elected by the people to represent public sentiment.

What then is the intention of the rewrite, specifically? If it is so "obvious", why do so few people seem to know what the rewrite intends to achieve? The vast majority don't even know what the current constitutional provisions are, let alone what "needs" to be changed.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Reasonableman

[h90]

"Let's prepare for an unfinished fight," Red Shirt leader Kokaew Pikulthong told the crowd near the capital's Democracy Monument.

Too bad AFP missed the opportunity to assist the reader by putting things in perspective by failing to note that "Red Shirt Leader Kokaew" is a Pheu Thai Party Member of Parliament, the political party in power.

That he is under multiple criminal indictments and is currently free on bail would also be helpful to know, particularly in light of his words that he's not through with fighting.

.

Did you see, these "it's not about Thaksin" reds had all a Thaksin+Yingluck TShirt?

[scorecard]

"Let's prepare for an unfinished fight," Red Shirt leader Kokaew Pikulthong told the crowd near the capital's Democracy Monument.

Too bad AFP missed the opportunity to assist the reader by putting things in perspective by failing to note that "Red Shirt Leader Kokaew" is a Pheu Thai Party Member of Parliament, the political party in power.

That he is under multiple criminal indictments and is currently free on bail would also be helpful to know, particularly in light of his words that he's not through with fighting.

.

Another example of lack of appropriate detail by AFP to put the article / sentence etc., in perspective:

"Judicial rulings have played a pivotal role, with courts forcing two pro-Thaksin premiers from office in 2008."

One of those premiers was forced from office because he chose to spend a lot of his time making / presenting a cooking show for TV. He broke the law, he knew he was breaking the law, he was reminded that hewas breaking the law and thumbed his nose at the law.

In any country the PM / whatever is expected to devote all their time and activity to running the countryc and cannot by law have another job.

He broke the law and was punished accordingly.

Further, he not only broke the law, he failed to provide the moral integrity that all people should expect from their leaders.

Edited June 25, 2012 by scorecard

[Moruya]

We can clearly see the public sentiment when around 5,000 yellow shirts come out to oppose the legislation and then 35,000 reds come out to support it. The constitutional court's biased to roadblock the legislation is based on an accusation that the legislation will change the constitutional monarchy which is obviously not the intention of the charter rewrite.

The 2007 constitution enacted by an unconstitutional, unelected government only barely passed a referendum after a massive state funded propaganda campaign to support it.

5,000 protesters got the job done.

[binjalin]

Thais have had enough of being 'controlled' and most see this as a positive sign

[Yunla]

very 1984......the plebs will never rise up...MiniTrue etc...

The social control theory of Maoism, and by the evidence adopted by Thaksin, believes to keep the people poor and uneducated, was the way to guarantee successful dictatorship, not only pre but post revolution. It is a process of normalisation and acceptance of your children's lack of reading-books and so forth. It explains to me why the redmob marching in the city, are not marching about poverty or lack of education in their own lives today, but simply on the removal 80 years ago of some people they never even met. They cannot march for removing the current government, as PTP is their own government they wanted so much to have. The fact that the PTP government has not helped the redshirts at all is not an issue, but the removal of some people 80 years ago is seen as a huge victory. This is called brainwashing, or to say the acceptance of a state of being, things are bad because they are bad. But 80 years ago things were worse, so we are told, so let us focus on those bygone days instead of asking why in the 21st century digital age Thailand, the poor are just as poor and uneducated under the PTP "power to the people" regime in month nine as they were before PTP came to power.

Don't ask why their PTP leaders have had nine months to put through or even commence projects for school-improvement, new reading books and funding for schools to promote successful teaching. This type of teaching makes kids learn to question and think independently and form their own hypotheses, and correlate views of earlier writers in books into their own written theories. PTP have not funded this type of education of the masses, they have handed out a few hundred cheap chinese computer tablets, which are to many people including myself, seen as barrier to learning, due to technical problems and 'eye candy' distractions of videogames, and transfer from 'reader/writer' participative learning to simply becoming a 'viewer'. PTP do not want educated masses and in the last nine months they have done nothing to change the "blank" nature of their followers or their kids.

Nor have PTP redmob done anything in the last nine months to change the crushing poverty of the poorest in society including many red shirt followers. Don't ask why the PTP rice mortgage scheme actually harms the poorest while providing lucrative skimming for the corrupt overlords. Again, this is a Maoist teaching, keep the workers poor and they will obey you. Promise them great things in the future, while they cope with poverty and educational deprivation today. But importantly, do not change their poverty or blankness, because then they will stop wearing the party colours and start their own projects and take new democratic action in life.

Why this is relevant is that of the tens of thousands of redmob mobilised in this OP, how many of them are educated or financially solvent. How many are like the Maosit ideal - poor and blank, and how hard has PTP worked in the last nine months to keep them exactly that way.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Yunla

[Siripon]

Nearly every red shirt I saw yesterday was wearing their favourite T shirt with a picture of Yingluk and Thaksin together. Take those 2 away and support for the red shirts would drop lioke a stone.

If you asked them what was wring with the present constitution I guarantee they couldn't answer.

Judging from the number of buses at Sanam Luang I'd say the majority came from the north and Issan.

A weekend trip to the capital.

35,000 is not a big turnout with all expenses paid, plus some pocket money.

[ThaiOats]

Thais have had enough of being 'controlled' and most see this as a positive sign

*sigh* How little do you know and jump onto the brainwashed bandwagon. When you say "Thais" you want to mean everyone who is Thai including myself but instead you're only attributing to the Red Shirt Thais. Have you gotten out and see that there are other Thais besides the ones you make company with who disagree with what you're saying? Probably not. Here's a question that I'm still waiting an answer for: Who and what are the names of the 'ammart' and elites who control these people?

The opposition (Democrats and citizens alike) have a clear target and that is Thaksin and his cronies. If the Red Shirts are so convinced that they are being given the shaft by 'elites', then why have their leaders not give them a clear direction instead of this broad view that whoever opposes them, opposes Democracy. Not one of them in their rally speeches talked about Thaksin's corruption but instead continue to bring up the misconduct in Parliament, which if you saw the video, had every right to.

[doggie888888]

Has the the demonstration ended and have the masses gone home? Just wondering.

[saltandpepper]

Has the the demonstration ended and have the masses gone home? Just wondering.

Yes, it was a return ticket week end trip with no accommodation provided.

The last time accommodation were provided was in 2010, and the masses were to sleep on the street while the red "elites" were hosted in 5 stars hotels.

[maidu]

"Let's prepare for an unfinished fight," Red Shirt leader Kokaew Pikulthong told the crowd near the capital's Democracy Monument.

Too bad AFP missed the opportunity to assist the reader by putting things in perspective by failing to note that "Red Shirt Leader Kokaew" is a Pheu Thai Party Member of Parliament, the political party in power.

That he is under multiple criminal indictments and is currently free on bail would also be helpful to know, particularly in light of his words that he's not through with fighting.

Good point. If he's free on bail, it's doubtful he's allowed to be bellowing thinly-veiled vows of violence to a crowd.

Thais have had enough of being 'controlled' and most see this as a positive sign

That could be interpreted various ways. The Shinawatre clan have exerted a lot of control during the past several years. If I clandestinely channeled hundreds of millions of baht in to Thailand - in order to shut down parts of Bangkok, and create chaos, I think you might call that a type of 'control', would you not?

Nearly every red shirt I saw yesterday was wearing their favourite T shirt with a picture of Yingluk and Thaksin together. Take those 2 away and support for the red shirts would drop lioke a stone.

If you asked them what was wring with the present constitution I guarantee they couldn't answer.

Judging from the number of buses at Sanam Luang I'd say the majority came from the north and Issan.

A weekend trip to the capital. 35,000 is not a big turnout with all expenses paid, plus some pocket money.

Take away promises of money (by T and Y and PT party), and I guarantee the Red Shirt movement would fizzle and fade. Plus, who would doubt that the peons from Issan were paid to attend, or at the least were offered free bus trips and meals. How many of the paid attendees would be honest enough to admit it, if true?

[doggie888888]

Has the the demonstration ended and have the masses gone home? Just wondering.

Yes, it was a return ticket week end trip with no accommodation provided.

The last time accommodation were provided was in 2010, and the masses were to sleep on the street while the red "elites" were hosted in 5 stars hotels.

thanks for the update.

[Moruya]

The Ted Shirts got what they wanted- a PTP government.

Now the government has failed these Red Shirts in so many ways, they need to be manipulated into believing that the new enemy is Law and Order in order to keep them distracted from reality.

I bet less than 1% of the hoohahs that were gathered there yesterday would know the constitution if you put it under their noses. Even less than that would read it if you gave them a free copy and 500B. Even less again would figure out the reason for the changes.

Still, in a True Democracy even the ignorant have the right to demonstrate for things they have no understanding of

[weka]

This UDD isn't a democracy movement. It's Taksin's and PTP's big red dog that they wheel out whenever they don't get their way, and pay it to bare it's fangs.

[ianf]

The Ted Shirts got what they wanted- a PTP government.

Now the government has failed these Red Shirts in so many ways, they need to be manipulated into believing that the new enemy is Law and Order in order to keep them distracted from reality.

I bet less than 1% of the hoohahs that were gathered there yesterday would know the constitution if you put it under their noses. Even less than that would read it if you gave them a free copy and 500B. Even less again would figure out the reason for the changes.

Still, in a True Democracy even the ignorant have the right to demonstrate for things they have no understanding of

I believe that it was Hitler in "Mein Kampf" who said that in order to control a mass you need to play with emotions not with "argumentation". There are no central policies or ideologies in the red movement and there never has been. Thaksin's elite mob of red leaders have understood this lesson from fascism. Just a thought!

Edited June 25, 2012 by ianf

[h90]

The Ted Shirts got what they wanted- a PTP government.

Now the government has failed these Red Shirts in so many ways, they need to be manipulated into believing that the new enemy is Law and Order in order to keep them distracted from reality.

I bet less than 1% of the hoohahs that were gathered there yesterday would know the constitution if you put it under their noses. Even less than that would read it if you gave them a free copy and 500B. Even less again would figure out the reason for the changes.

Still, in a True Democracy even the ignorant have the right to demonstrate for things they have no understanding of

I believe that it was Hitler in "Mein Kampf" who said that in order to control a mass you need to play with emotions not with "argumentation". There are no central policies or ideologies in the red movement and there never has been. Thaksin's elite mob of red leaders have understood this lesson from fascism. Just a thought!

that guide books are for the Nazis and the Communists almost the same.....Same methods....similar in every detail.

[Insight]

Thais have had enough of being 'controlled' and most see this as a positive sign

*sigh* How little do you know and jump onto the brainwashed bandwagon. When you say "Thais" you want to mean everyone who is Thai including myself but instead you're only attributing to the Red Shirt Thais. Have you gotten out and see that there are other Thais besides the ones you make company with who disagree with what you're saying? Probably not. Here's a question that I'm still waiting an answer for: Who and what are the names of the 'ammart' and elites who control these people?

The opposition (Democrats and citizens alike) have a clear target and that is Thaksin and his cronies. If the Red Shirts are so convinced that they are being given the shaft by 'elites', then why have their leaders not give them a clear direction instead of this broad view that whoever opposes them, opposes Democracy. Not one of them in their rally speeches talked about Thaksin's corruption but instead continue to bring up the misconduct in Parliament, which if you saw the video, had every right to.

I don't know about yourself, but the Thai people I know now seem to be resigned to the fact that civil war is now looking inevitable.

To describe it was being "welcomed" would be too strong, but if it's the only way to bring some closure to this situation, instead of having these endless red rally after red rally every time a decision is made which doesn't go their way, so be it.

Just what I'm sensing around me. A very sorry situation indeed.

[pacovl46]

<deleted> are they protesting about??? They're already in power!!! It just proves that some people are impossible to please!!!

[MunterHunter]

Here is a possible solution to the problem...

Get Abhisit and Thaksin in the middle of a football stadium, give them both a rifle with 20 rounds... Lock all the gates and doors and only one man is allowed out alive.

Winner takes all, loser gets nothing... let the battle begin!

[Thaddeus]

Thais have had enough of being 'controlled' and most see this as a positive sign

*sigh* How little do you know and jump onto the brainwashed bandwagon. When you say "Thais" you want to mean everyone who is Thai including myself but instead you're only attributing to the Red Shirt Thais. Have you gotten out and see that there are other Thais besides the ones you make company with who disagree with what you're saying? Probably not. Here's a question that I'm still waiting an answer for: Who and what are the names of the 'ammart' and elites who control these people?

The opposition (Democrats and citizens alike) have a clear target and that is Thaksin and his cronies. If the Red Shirts are so convinced that they are being given the shaft by 'elites', then why have their leaders not give them a clear direction instead of this broad view that whoever opposes them, opposes Democracy. Not one of them in their rally speeches talked about Thaksin's corruption but instead continue to bring up the misconduct in Parliament, which if you saw the video, had every right to.

I don't know about yourself, but the Thai people I know now seem to be resigned to the fact that civil war is now looking inevitable.

To describe it was being "welcomed" would be too strong, but if it's the only way to bring some closure to this situation, instead of having these endless red rally after red rally every time a decision is made which doesn't go their way, so be it.

Just what I'm sensing around me. A very sorry situation indeed.

I wonder what would happen if some one in the assembled throng started asking questions to whichever leader is on the stage.

Questions like, why are we not all getting 300 Baht a day yet? why haven't all our children got a Tab PC yet, why are we not getting the promised price for our rice yet?

You know, irrelevant stuff like that.

[Valentine]

<deleted> are they protesting about??? They're already in power!!! It just proves that some people are impossible to please!!!

The red shirts are not in power, they only supported the current government & have been thrown a few crumbs although I would guess their leaders are getting fairly well paid.

[billd766]

Why don't the Red Shirts and all the PTP MPs who feel so strongly about all this start their own political party, produce their own manifesto and block the streets until the PTP grant new elections?

If they are good enough and get enough of the popular votes to have a majority in parliament then they could become the new government and make their own laws and (possibly) run the country into the ground.

They should certainly be able to gather all the Red Shirt votes without having to pay for them.