Myanmar 'No Threat To Thai Tourism'

[billd766]

"Myanmar is still far behind Thailand in development. Its infrastructure, such as road network, electricity and sanitation, is still poor. Hotel standards are not good. People working in the industry from chef to tour guide lack professionalism. Also, the hospitality of the local people leaves much to be desired, especially concerning unfair service".

It seems Thai people and politicians have yet to understand that putting people down does not elevate themselves, their standards, or their country.

Well I got told a lot Thai chefs work in Myanmar already....So everything a question of time only......

There's no doubt about that.............it is a question of time, how long it takes to build the infrastructure. It's going to take years.

The question for Thailand is, will they get ready for the competition during those years?, and the answer is no

Have nice island or town with beach ready can be done in 1 year. Of course just for beach holidays, but to be honest most of the tourists just book Pattaya/Phuket/Koh Samui and stay there on the beach. If an airport is close and the street to the resort is OK it will be good enough.

Egypt or Cuba isn't doing it different.

Of course they won't take over 90 % of the tourists, but a few %. Maybe it will only bring the tourism to a stable level without increase in Thailand.

If the economic crises getting worse and Myanmar offers super low prices than maybe Thailand has to reduce prices as well....not getting less tourists but less profit.

When sales are down Thailand ALWAYS raises its prices so they get more profit from less people........ unless of course tourists don't want to be ripped off and go to Burma anyway.

Then of course Thailand will raise its prices again.

[TinoThailand]

Controversially!!!!!..............I agree for now.................however!!!!.................complacency will undo Thailand.

In the medium to long term Burma will build the infrastructure required to damage Thai tourism, that will take time though. Thailand should be using that time to ensure that they are giving better customer service and a better product to tourists, in preparation for certain competition.

We know that's what they should be doing, we also know there is no chance of Thailand doing that. There will be trouble ahead.

In addition to that, in the short/medium time frame, will be for Burma to offer relatively "raw" nature instead of the commercial holiday destinations that Thailand now offer. Over priced and over rated!

How appealing will that be for tourists? It is after all how Thailand started (American R&R excluded)...........

True.........and a very good point.

Can I just point out that comparing Thailand with Burma is totally wrong. Burma will easily attract a different class of tourist.

Burma is not Thailand, it never has been, and it never will be. It will never have the sleaze image, the Ladyboy cliche, the Thai wife image, and the stench of child exploitation that Thailand has attached to it.

Burma is a totally different proposition, it's reputation as a country is legendary in the collective memory, and the fact that it is a former member of the British empire is a fantastic advantage compared to Thailand. You will easily get ABC demographic tourists to visit Burma with no hesitation as soon as the infrastructure is in place.

I'm already seeing AB category tourists being advertised to in the British press such as The Times, being offered the Burma experience on cruise ships, etc. This country will attract a demographic that Thailand finds hard to attract, and they will attract them easily, as soon as the infrastructure is built.

You will never see a Pattaya in Burma.

"You will never see a Pattaya in Burma"

THANK GOD!!!

[theblether]

True.........and a very good point.

Can I just point out that comparing Thailand with Burma is totally wrong. Burma will easily attract a different class of tourist.

Burma is not Thailand, it never has been, and it never will be. It will never have the sleaze image, the Ladyboy cliche, the Thai wife image, and the stench of child exploitation that Thailand has attached to it.

Burma is a totally different proposition, it's reputation as a country is legendary in the collective memory, and the fact that it is a former member of the British empire is a fantastic advantage compared to Thailand. You will easily get ABC demographic tourists to visit Burma with no hesitation as soon as the infrastructure is in place.

I'm already seeing AB category tourists being advertised to in the British press such as The Times, being offered the Burma experience on cruise ships, etc. This country will attract a demographic that Thailand finds hard to attract, and they will attract them easily, as soon as the infrastructure is built.

You will never see a Pattaya in Burma.

I know what you mean that Burma has a good chance of attracting nice educated people who like a bit of history, but Thailand does that too.

Given the abundance of cheap flights (and cheap everything else here) Thailand obviously attracts a lot of low-class tourists, however it is also well established as a destination for higher-class holidaymakers too.

I doubt all the +$500 per night hotels and spa resorts in Thailand are filled with blue-collar workers on sex tourism trips.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

You know that there are plenty of people who would never visit Thailand due to it's reputation.

That doesn't apply to Burma, and it never will, as the Burmese will not allow a Pattaya.

I know exactly what you mean that many people think of Thailand as a sleazy country. However, in my opinion, of people who have not visited Thailand it is generally lower-class people who have heard about Pattaya (from their mate from down the pub) where as the higher-class people (that you are talking about) may have read that they used to have ping-pong sex shows in Bangkok but will not know (or care) if they still exist.

Prudish lower-class people might be afraid to visit Thai (because they don't want everyone to think they are the same as that sex tourist bloke from down the pub) but Thailand is still extremely popular with lower-class tourists despite (and to some extent because of) the sleaze.

On the other hand, I have rarely heard higher-class people describe Thailand as anything other than a sunny beach holiday destination with a great choice of accommodation, restaurants, beautiful scenery, etc.

Thailand's sex industry is of course an issue for the country, but I don't think it is any more in potential tourists' minds than the abuses of human-rights, violent conflict and starvation that plagues Burma. Also, I am not sure Burma will find it any easier to solve these problems than Thailand has with dealing with the problem of a highly visible sex industry.

It a circular argument, I know wealthy people that wouldn't be seen dead in Thailand, one of my frustrations is the amount of "assassination without investigation" of Thailand that goes on.

There is no doubt that it's an issue, and that it's a self inflicted wound.

[edwinclapham]

Just as a side line I see that ..

Burma is sometimes referred to as the Scottish Colony, due to the heavy role played by Scotsmen in colonising and running the country – one of the most notable being Sir James George Scott, and the Irrawaddy Flotilla Company.

Could be an opportunity for a "kilt shop" in Rangoon

[TinoThailand]

Thailand is having its Climax right now (again?), so if 1 + 1 = 2 they can only lose bit by bit.

Thailand is a country like a inbetween station for many people. If not, Thailand is a country for people who are a bit "done" with life. Retirements or some kind of losts.

I lost my health, I learned how to walk again in this country, I can read Thai (starting slowly) and it will always be a special country for me because of my experiance and story. Would I wanto stay here 10 years from now?

With what i see, the answer is no. But im not planning anything for now...

[allan michaud]

"Also, the hospitality of the local people leaves much to be desired, especially concerning unfair service." -That wasn't my experience.

I spent 9 days in Myanmar over Songkran. Yangon, Inle, Mandalay, and Bagan, from guesthouses to 4 star hotels. The service I experienced was the same or better as other places in the region, and the hospitality of the people was much better.

I have not been yet but I know many that have and I have only heard good things about the people of Burma and these friends great experiences. Several people also commented that it felt like a 'real' Buddhist country, unlike Thailand.

[drdoom6996]

Controversially!!!!!..............I agree for now.................however!!!!.................complacency will undo Thailand.

In the medium to long term Burma will build the infrastructure required to damage Thai tourism, that will take time though. Thailand should be using that time to ensure that they are giving better customer service and a better product to tourists, in preparation for certain competition.

We know that's what they should be doing, we also know there is no chance of Thailand doing that. There will be trouble ahead.

In addition to that, in the short/medium time frame, will be for Burma to offer relatively "raw" nature instead of the commercial holiday destinations that Thailand now offer. Over priced and over rated!

How appealing will that be for tourists? It is after all how Thailand started (American R&R excluded)...........

I'm going to see about the cost of living there, what with all the wonderful the Thai government is doing for us here and now.

[Bramdaddy]

Thailand is its own threat to tourism.

[brit1984]

It a circular argument, I know wealthy people that wouldn't be seen dead in Thailand, one of my frustrations is the amount of "assassination without investigation" of Thailand that goes on.

There is no doubt that it's an issue, and that it's a self inflicted wound.

If Thailand does indeed (as you predict) lose tourist dollars to Burma, I hope that will provide some impetus to deal with the sleaze.

However, I think (despite the sex tourism image and competition from Burma) Thailand's tourism industry will actually continue to flourish.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[h90]

When sales are down Thailand ALWAYS raises its prices so they get more profit from less people........ unless of course tourists don't want to be ripped off and go to Burma anyway.

Then of course Thailand will raise its prices again.

My experience show, they do it for some time. Than some weird owner gets the weird idea to actually lower the prices, even common sense tells that at less demand you must rise prices to keep the profit stable. Often some farangs who don't know nothing about business are doing that nonsense.

Than a rush of everyone tries to undercut the other starts. Of course it needs some time, but it always happen when some hotels don't have any guests anymore.

Bangkok after all the demonstrations, burning buildings and water has some really good offers......So they finally got it.

[Kilgore Trout]

People working in the industry from chef to tour guide lack professionalism

Ha, yes I'm sure the Thais see themselves as quite professional

[kiniyow]

Competition is Great~~Full steam ahead for Burma..They have much catching up to do but will eventually succeed I hope...

[steven100]

" because of its quality facilities and professionalism, an expert said last week. "

check back in a couple of years and see if your comment holds water !!

Thailand is history so far as being the top tourist destination .......

[h90]

Why don't we say as it is?

Birma has experience dealing with westerners, due to it's colonial past.

Thailand has not.

Which means Birma is more flexible in coping with foreigners.

It is just waiting fir the first western company seeing the possibities of Birma to invest, and there it goes.

And I am afraid this will not take a long time.

Also not very certain if there will never be a kind of gambling/sex thing somewhere in Birma.

But these with experience with foreigners are all 80 years old.

[theblether]

It a circular argument, I know wealthy people that wouldn't be seen dead in Thailand, one of my frustrations is the amount of "assassination without investigation" of Thailand that goes on.

There is no doubt that it's an issue, and that it's a self inflicted wound.

If Thailand does indeed (as you predict) lose tourist dollars to Burma, I hope that will provide some impetus to deal with the sleaze.

However, I think (despite the sex tourism image and competition from Burma) Thailand's tourism industry will actually continue to flourish.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

Bizarrely you may think, I won't disagree with that, but it will change and change quite dramatically. I said in my first response that Thailand should use the time to get their act together, but they won't, and there will be trouble ahead.

Once the trouble hits there will be more and more pressure put on the sleazy and criminal parts of the Thai tourist economy, there will be a raising of standards, and there will be an unexpected boon to Thailand, as there will be an explosion in 2 centre holidays, one week Burma, next week Thailand.

My point is, that Thailand should take the chance to improve now, but they won't, they will wait till Burma is having a negative effect on farang tourism then start to firefight.

[Moruya]

IMO opinion there will be a few factors that will decide who much tourism flourishes in Burma

The first being how fast can Burma put in place the needed infrastructure. Another big factor

will be the Burmese professionalism and service in their efforts to make the country open and

make it a desired destination. Major tourism is rather new to Burma and when starting out it

will not take much to turn people of going there. A perceived lack of corruption and a lack of

mafia style groups will definately help

Asean may be coming at just the right time for Burma - and I'm sure there are some big companies looking for some JV business or have even started already.

[Thai at Heart]

because of its quality facilities and professionalism,

And what does it take to create quality facilities? The will, desire and money to build them. Ironically, who is likely to be at the forefront to actually build these facilities? Thai Chinese. So beyond the obvious investments that will come from international companies, the Tha/Chinese themselves will be at the forefront of building the very facilities that will eventually eat into the Thai tourism business.

All that will be the clincher, is will the Burmese have planning rules that prevent 5 star hotels being built next to slums, put in some half decent waste water treatment plants, waste disposal and a police force that will actually do some work. What are the odds that the Burmese, look at the Thai experience and decide that instead of going down the path to catastrophe that is Patong or Pattaya they actually do build a good sustainable, medium to high quality tourism business?

[stoffel45]

Burma represents an excellent destination. It's people (not the rulers) are gentle and very well mannered. Think Thailand 50 years ago. Until it is polluted, as tragically it will be, it will be an opportunity for travellers to see the real people of South East Asia. These people still exist by the million in the "off the tourist track" parts of Thailand. It is only in the degenerate Tourist Havens where the "Thai-ness" of people has been perverted - and even then there are plenty of diamonds in the rough.

To Ricku - alas children are massively exploited in Thailand. I meet the wreckage in my work. What was a flood of homosexual predators from Europe has turned into a massive inundation and their hunger for children is beyond belief.

Burma has been protected from these and heterosexual predators for many years - but profit is profit and tragically one can expect the same in Burma.

For those of you who can - it would be a wonderful experience to take a flight/combined time machine and visit this wonderfully gracious country. But quit knocking Thailand, in my 15 years there, I found most of the "human pollution" was imported.

[Jobiwankenobi]

Yeah Thailand is effed up, but make no mistake about it mon freres, Myanmar (or Burma, whichever you choose to call it) is one of the most savage, vile, corrupt, and unapologetic military dictatorships still in power today, and this country remains one of the most closed off countries in South Asia. Don't forget that it's current government strives to benefit itself (Burmese elite) by whatever means necessary. Bribery and corruption have now been institutionalized just as much as (or even moreso) than here Thailand. This has gone on with such permanency that it'll take generations to fix, let alone the military's position, which will never be easily given up. Believe you me, those people will find a way to perpetuate their hold on power, even if it means massacre. Aung San Su Kyi or no Aung San Su Kyi, we're talking about a country that's more effed up right now, right at this very moment, than Thailand ever was. Again, yes there are problems here, huge problems that seem impossible to even make an attempt at solving, but lets not praise Myanmar like it this empty canvas ready to be painted with beautiful insight and foreign investment / ideas - that in 10 years it will surely leave poopy, immoral Thailand in the dust. Hah. Don't hold your breath. Thailand is effed up, but Myanmar....it's effed up, BIG TIME.

Edited June 25, 2012 by metisdead
: Font.

[theblether]

Thailand is having its Climax right now (again?), so if 1 + 1 = 2 they can only lose bit by bit.

Thailand is a country like a inbetween station for many people. If not, Thailand is a country for people who are a bit "done" with life. Retirements or some kind of losts.

I lost my health, I learned how to walk again in this country, I can read Thai (starting slowly) and it will always be a special country for me because of my experiance and story. Would I wanto stay here 10 years from now?

With what i see, the answer is no. But im not planning anything for now...

You're going to cause a big row on this thread

Burma will show the Thais the benefit of having being colonized by the Brits, just the same way that Malaysia and Singapore have done already.

[chrisinth]

I do have to agree you will never see a Pattaya in Burma, at least not called Pattaya. More likely be "New Blackpool" or "New Littlehampton" or some-such.

To say that this will never happen in a country like Burma is, IMO, pretty naive or tends towards wishful thinking. When the Junta is dissolved (and this will happen if Burma wants to seriously compete in the tourism game) what makes you think that the "elected" government will not be party to "handouts" and under the table dealings? Because it was once a British interest? Don't think so.

I can foresee the backpackers seeking the opium pipes, making a rut in the landscape. A couple of islands dedicated to full moon parties. As soon as the locals see the money to be gained from the tourists (there are enough of them working legally & illegally in Thailand at the moment to make this short term) then the tourists will be exploited.

Burma is a beautiful country, rich in both natural resources and tourist attractions. Beaches and mountain retreats which are out of this world. With an entire population that has been kept in poverty and ignorance for decades.

Any of the above sound familiar? Hope I'm wrong, but wait and see!

[edwinclapham]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/poverty-matters/2012/apr/19/uneven-road-to-doing-business-burma

Quite an interesting piece here on Burma.

[theblether]

Yeah Thailand is effed up, but make no mistake about it mon freres, Myanmar (or Burma, whichever you choose to call it) is one of the most savage, vile, corrupt, and unapologetic military dictatorships still in power today, and this country remains one of the most closed off countries in South Asia. Don't forget that it's current government strives to benefit itself (Burmese elite) by whatever means necessary. Bribery and corruption have now been institutionalized just as much as (or even moreso) than here Thailand. This has gone on with such permanency that it'll take generations to fix, let alone the military's position, which will never be easily given up. Believe you me, those people will find a way to perpetuate their hold on power, even if it means massacre. Aung San Su Kyi or no Aung San Su Kyi, we're talking about a country that's more effed up right now, right at this very moment, than Thailand ever was. Again, yes there are problems here, huge problems that seem impossible to even make an attempt at solving, but lets not praise Myanmar like it this empty canvas ready to be painted with beautiful insight and foreign investment / ideas - that in 10 years it will surely leave poopy, immoral Thailand in the dust. Hah. Don't hold your breath. Thailand is effed up, but Myanmar....it's effed up, BIG TIME.

Yes we must resist becoming cheerleaders, it goes without saying that everything is dependent upon political progress.

[TinoThailand]

Competition is Great~~Full steam ahead for Burma..They have much catching up to do but will eventually succeed I hope...

I hope so too! There many matters they should not "catch up" with haha.

[bangkokheat]

I would find it difficult to believe that burma or vietnam for that matter would surpass thailand for tourism without the sex industry. Recent visit to vietnam talking to a local, he tells me he believes within a few years vietnam will have a more exposed sex industry, its already there now. There is a lot of infrastructure already in place near haiphong just out from hanoi, dont know whats going on in HCMC

[Thai at Heart]

I would find it difficult to believe that burma or vietnam for that matter would surpass thailand for tourism without the sex industry. Recent visit to vietnam talking to a local, he tells me he believes within a few years vietnam will have a more exposed sex industry, its already there now. There is a lot of infrastructure already in place near haiphong just out from hanoi, dont know whats going on in HCMC

A more exposed sex industry than Thailand? Strewth, does that mean it will be visible from the moon?

[beautifulthailand99]

No country can realistically hope to surpass Thailand in sex trade expertise. As Myanmar grows its legitimate tourist economy, Thailand will continue to invest and proliferate its sex trade. They are the masters. Thais know how to do this, they are the world's experts in selling sex. So if Schipani can decode the Thai black economy and figure out how much money the Thai sex trade really represents, he can then make projections that really count. It would be very interesting to see the "behind close doors" breakdown of the ADB "internal" discussions to see what they really think.

Well last time I looked tourism was about 6.5% of GDP and 50% of tourist arrivals are single males so lets say 3% of GDP is sex related.

Edited June 25, 2012 by beautifulthailand99

[ManInSurat]

As has already been mentioned, Burma/Myanmar does not have the amenities necessary to bring it the tourist numbers like Thailand has today. They will come though.

I'd say the one major thing that needs to be adressed as fast as possible is the ability to have access to your money. Burma/Myanmar is still technically under financial sanction by the USA, although I would imagine these sanctions would be lifted in time for the 2013 Asean Games which they're hosting. Visa, Mastercard, et al - you can't be without these things.

It is my understanding you cannot use any kind of foreign (including Thai) ATM card at any machine there. Machines are not widespread so rolling out this amenity is going to take some time. Also Burma/Myanmar has a policy of only allowing banks and government authorised money changers to exchange. Although many people do it, it is actually illegal for the Burmese to have any foreign currency in their possession.

No tourist wants to carry that much cash around with them. I wouldn't.

The one massive thing I think Burma has to its advantage, in the long run, is the fact it's streets ahead of all its Asean neighbours in English in its major tourist areas, probably with the exceptions of Singapore and Malaysia. Thailand is very very poor at English, given its reliance on using the language. The only thing Thailand has done correctly is having directions and places name in English nearly everywhere you drive. It is only placenames with arrows and not the orange and yellow warning signs, but that was a drastic improvement.

Aside from the mafia-enforced Russification of Phuket, English is the defacto language for all Western nationalities when visiting the Asean region. I've been to Burma and it's widely spoken. Not to mention in neighbouring India and Bangladesh, where a lot of people also come in from, they also speak English and it's an ex-colony.

The motivating factor for you average tourist has to be money. It's always the cost factor.

Prices and the rate of inflation in Thailand is starting to get a little ridiculous. What'll happen is it'll get to a point where the prices force people to look elsewhere in the region, the tourist dollar will eventually start to go away and you're left with highly inflated places that none of the populace or visitors can/want to afford as the economy has been irreparably damaged.

Nothing will be done about Phuket and puppet after puppet will just bluster that it'll be cleaned up and before long there'll be nowhere left.

My biggest worry is that Ao Nang, Koh Lanta and other similarly quiet idyllic places will start to turn into Pattaya and Phuket.

There's little places left after that. Trang and Satun are very very unchartered (aside from Koh Lipe, Koh Kradan, Koh Ngai and Koh Tarutao). In the Gulf Koh Phagnan is already ruined. Koh Samui is the new Phuket and is on the road to irreperable damage.

Complacency is common form for Thailand, so we shouldn't really be surprised at all. Although there's no question its painful to watch a country you love harming itself over and over and over again.

Part of me wants certain types of tourists to leave. You know the type I mean. The other part of me feels sad for the average "Joe the plumber" in Thailand that would be out of pocket. It's not his fault his government are a bit mental.

All power to Burma/Myanmar, any tentative steps into the light should be greatly encouraged. It has some of the most beautiful and jaw-droppingly stunning temple complexes I've seen in the world.

Thailand deserves to lose out to Burma/Myanmar, it needs a hardcore reality check and slap in the face. Even when that does start happening no one in the government will admit it and you'll never get reliable figures. It'll all be obfuscation and maniuplation of numbers to paint a false picture.

Sometimes I just wanna grab Thailand by its lapels and shout "Y U NO PLAY NICE!?" in its face. Not that it would listen or care and I'd probably be poisoned for making it lose face.

Edited June 25, 2012 by ManInSurat

[ThomasBird67]

"Also, the hospitality of the local people leaves much to be desired, especially concerning unfair service."

Almost fell out of my chair laughing when I read this. Hey Thailand pot, meet kettle.

[simon43]

Myanmar is still far behind Thailand in development. Its infrastructure, such as road network, electricity and sanitation, is still poor. Hotel standards are not good. People working in the industry from chef to tour guide lack professionalism. Also, the hospitality of the local people leaves much to be desired, especially concerning unfair service.

What planet is that guy on??

I am lucky enough to travel on a weekly basis to south Myanmar. I travel there for the past few months to investigate the possibility of building a small hotel, to compliment my existing little hotels in Phuket.

For my target location in south Myanmar, I can conclude that:

- The road infrastructure is good in the town and immediate area

- The electricity supply is unstable (same as in Lao PDR), but improving rapidly due to the opening of a new power station

- The hospital/clinics are terrible, (rather like in Lao PDR)

- The existing hotels which cater for foreign tourists are excellent quality and clean

- Corruption exists, but not one person has tried to deceive me in all my trips

- The local people are friendly, if a little shy

- English language knowledge is not very good, but everyone is keen to learn!

If I had the funds, I would build a hotel in Myanmar tomorrow! And I know that I could fill all rooms every night with foreign tourist bookings...

During my weekly trips, I give free English lessons in the town, to try (in my own small way), to help them to improve their English

Again, if I had the funds, I would be over in Myanmar from tomorrow, to provide English and ICT/hospitality courses to the community

Myanmar/Burma is a huge country, and some border areas are still restive or downright dangerous - just like Thailand.

Myanmar has more than 800 islands, most of them are completely undeveloped.

My Phuket hotels provide me and my family with a good business, and will continue to do so due to their strategic location (Phuket Airport). But my money and heart is 100% on helping the Burmese people to improve their country and to create businesses for the huge number of tourists who will want to visit the country.

What starts as a small of trickle of intrepid tourists will soon become a river...

And if you think that south Myanmar cannot be compared to 5-star Phuket in terms of infrastructure, consider this:

- My hotels are within 500 metres of Phuket International Airport, yet there is no mains/city water, there is no city sewerage system and there was no electricity supply until I paid to have the poles and transformers installed. Travel a short distance outside many developed regions in Thailand and the infrastructure system (except for the good Thai roads) is comparable to Lao PDR and Myanmar.

TheBlether is quite correct to say that the infrastructure in Myanmar needs a lot of improvement. But it is relatively simple to construct 'oasis' hotels of decent quality and infrastructure, and these can provide employment, income and business opportunitities to the local community. The national improvement in the infrastructure will take longer, but it's entirely feasible to get the ball rolling for the tourists right now

Simon

Edited June 25, 2012 by simon43