Countdown To The Cabinet's Big Nasa Decision: Thai Opinion

[webfact]

STOPPAGE TIME

Countdown to the Cabinet's big Nasa decision

Tulsathit Taptim

Friday, 1.40pm: The headline is no pun intended.

BANGKOK: -- At any given time in Thailand, a "countdown" is always in progress, and it's mostly related to a political show of force that provokes or is provoked by a court decision, which also is often preceded by a countdown of its own. That the US space agency, Nasa, has asked Thailand to make the U-tapao decision by next Tuesday is funny, but no eyebrow should be raised. We Thais live with deadlines, ultimatums and blatant threats. The Americans should know that.

It was Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul who delivered the message of the unhappy Americans to the Thai public and government on Thursday. To our newsroom, he sounded like a man looking desperately to deflect blame and find a graceful exit. This suspicion will be confirmed only if the Yingluck government totally backs down next week.

3.30pm: PM Yingluck Shinawatra has stepped in in style. Having been silent from Day One and let Surapong's hourly mood swing occupy media attention, she dropped a mini bombshell with an innocent face. "If the issue has to go through Parliament, it will," she said. "Did she know what she was talking about?" someone asked at our news meeting. Earlier on Twitter, she dared to proclaim that "Nasa is not my father." What she has come up with is certainly more diplomatic, but it does make this "countdown" to Tuesday more exciting.

Saturday, 10am: If American scientists want to study clouds in the Thai sky, does the Thai Parliament have to approve it? The answer, I think, is not "Yes" or "No", but "Why not?" Obscurity breeds scepticism, and continued reluctance to be transparent accelerates the growth of the seeds of doubt. "We will explain it to the Chinese," Surapong had suggested, indirectly acknowledging that the potential deal with the Americans was worrying for Beijing. If China needs an explanation, what about the tiny little thing called the Thai Parliament?

Saturday, 3pm: The Democrats are enjoying this. Their strategy is clear: As long as the government shuns Parliament over U-tapao, we will continue to talk about spy planes and China's jittery nerves. Well aware that they, too, were mulling US help on disaster relief while in power, the opposition MPs have emphasised again that they are not opposed to a humanitarian scheme, but it has to be carried out in the most transparent manner.

6 pm: Matichon online has put together opinions in the Thai print media. There is not much in the government's favour. Even those who think government rivals are politicising the issue say Parliament should not have been kept out. In other words, if the U-tapao controversy is turning from a molehill into a mountain, the government is also to blame.

Here's a summary of some Thai columnists' opinions. From Daily News: "It's not wise to make China angry." From Naew Na: "American foreign policy - enough said." From Matichon: "Scepticism about American intent has combined with scepticism about Thaksin Shinawatra's intent." From Baan Muang: "The fuss is puzzling. US espionage satellites litter the sky and China and the whole world are crawling with US spies already." From Krungthep Turakij: "This is such a small issue compared with what Thais have been going through."

Sunday, 2 pm: Diplomat wannabes out there, look no further than Chinese Vice Foreign Minister <deleted> Ying for inspiration. In an interview with The Nation editor-in-chief Suthichai Yoon, she managed to say something to the effect of "Of course, we are worried" in the most subtle way. To sum it up, she practically said that since Washington has proclaimed pure intention, Beijing must hope the Americans stay true to that. On the issue of the South China Sea, in which case regional anxiety shifts to her country, <deleted> Ying basically said: "Trust us when we say everyone has agreed to exercise the utmost restraint.

"Asean, the vice minister said, can shape the power play in East Asia and must not become a bystander or "a tool of major powers". Hearing that, an old song about a woman torn between two men and "feelin' like a fool" springs to mind.

Monday, 2pm: On the eve of the Thai Cabinet's crucial decision, high-profile comments are coming thick and fast. Defence Minister Sukamphol Suwannathat charged that cynicism and politics were stalling a very good project for Thailand. Atchaporn Jaruchinda from the Council of State said he couldn't see how the Nasa deal could compromise Thai sovereignty. Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit described the Democrats as a bunch of "cry wolf" boys.

And this is how a leading American media organisation looks at it: "As the Obama administration revamps its Asian strategy in response to a rising China, the military is weighing a return to some familiar bases from its last conflict in Southeast Asia, the Vietnam War," the Washington Post said. It added, though, that the Nasa affair is something completely separate which has been "held up" here due to the "lack of information" which has "bred suspicion in the Thai media and opposition lawmakers". Surapong today suggested he wouldn't mind involving Parliament if that would solve the impasse.

Tuesday, 2pm: And Parliament it is. The solution is ridiculously simple and makes us wonder why nobody ever mentioned it before. The U-tapao controversy, the Cabinet has decided, will go through Parliament, but there will only be debate and no voting. This is possible under Article 179 of the Constitution, which allows a joint House-Senate debate on selected issues while no vote has to be called.

Another important thing happening today is that the Cabinet does not favour calling an extra parliamentary session to debate the issue. The 179 debate, observers say, will take place when Parliament reopens in August and can be upgraded into a forum under Article 190, which will require a vote.

The ball is in the American court now. Will Nasa cancel its U-tapao countdown or just postpone it? We should know very soon.

-- The Nation 2012-06-27

[Moruya]

Keystone Government

Amateur night

Too much Thaksin. Not enough other

[Soutpeel]

Much ado about nothing me thinks...

lets play political hand ball with this one and maybe people will forget about the real problems in Thailand that need decisions and action...

[zydeco]

"The ball is in the American court now. Will Nasa cancel its U-tapao countdown or just postpone it? We should know very soon."

How about the US just cancel everything connected with Thailand. Not one more red cent spent on this place. And slap a real nasty trade embargo on it too, for its continued intellectual piracy, human trafficking, and anti-US mischief making. Let's see how long these idiots last completely and totally under the Chinese thumb.

[hansgruber]

NASA just needs to bump up the under the table money.

I wonder who they forgot to pay?

[jackspratt]

How about the US just cancel everything connected with Thailand. Not one more red cent spent on this place. And slap a real nasty trade embargo on it too, for its continued intellectual piracy, human trafficking, and anti-US mischief making.

Hopefully American policy makers are a bit smarter than your average TV-posting dullard.

Cut ...... nose ...... spite ....... face, spring to mind.

[pattayaorganic]

Jackspratt---+10.

This whole thing stinks to high heaven. What is the actual project??? Is it humanitarian aid? It is NASA/Climate study? What exactly is the benefit to Thailand? Why the rush? If the humanitarian aid and climate study are independent, separate issues, why are the two being linked with an ultimatum to pull everything if nothing done by Tuesday. This was a farcical diplomatic move by the US based on US ignorance of foreign perceptions (or complete lack of caring about such) and the handling by the Thai govt. is just par for the course of this government.

One must view the project in the context of US moves to expand its Asian presence in old military bases. It doesn't take a tin hat conspiracy theorist to piece the puzzle together and come to the conclusion that there are massive ulterior motives behind the current US move.

In any democratic society such as Thailand & US, transparency and public scrutiny should be the hallmark of a functional democracy. Screaming to cut off all ties with Thailand due to Thai public's healthy suspicion of a project that is poorly publicized at best and quite possibly fraught with ulterior motives just serves to underscore US arrogance in its education and foreign policy.

I don't even need to mention chemtrails, possible covert military applications, etc. and other more controversial issues that the conspiricists will raise. The poor handling, lack of transparency, illogical statements, on both the Thai and US sides of this thing, raise the BS meter too high for me...

[OccamsRazor]

I don't even need to mention chemtrails

That pretty much nullifies the rest of your post in terms of credibility.

[h90]

That clothes are a joke, or?

[Siripon]

I saw the interview on Thai PBS channel with the American ambassador last week before the announcement of a deadline.

I'm sure the ambassador said there was no deadline set in response to a question from the journalist.

[Arkady]

They sat on the NASA request since they took office and wasted the parliamentary session unsuccessfully trying to get Thaksin amnestied. Now the deadline to reply to NASA has passed there is no longer any need to debate it in parliament.

[johnjohn2]

Pattyaorganic. Do you actually read the news or just comment whenever you have a whim?

NASA is a civilian agency and this is a weather study. The benefit is the scientific study of the atmosphere and weather patterns above

S. East Asia. Thailand was proposed due to the centralized location.

How do you pull conspiracy from something simple? The US has assets available already that provides intelligence data for the government. Every civilian program from the US that provides to help the planet doesnt mean there is a ulterior motive. Thailands scientific community will greatly benefit most of all from the access and experience with working with very sophisticated equipment and data analysis.

The project was proposed over a year ago and from I read in the news is that if an answer isnt given by the date discussed, then NASA would not be able to move all the equipment and materials needed to set up and get up and running in time to conduct the survey during the most opportune weather conditions. Meaning that they would be forced to try again next year or work with conditions not optimal for the study. If I was spending millions of dollars on a study I would want to conduct my research during peak times.

I fail to understand how you can think that the US did not respect the Thai gov. The civilian agency said they would not do it if they could not get a yes or no by the date. NASA is not the US government.

[noitom]

Whatever happened to that Thai big cheese who was pontificating that parliament needn't be involved in this decision. It doesn't concern Thai sovereignty. Bring him in front and center. Let's have a look at him.

[EyesWideOpen]

This is really an odd story. America is flat broke. Why would they spend so much as one dollar studying weather in Asia while people are sleeping in their cars in America??? Also funny to see Thailand sort of dithering over this in an effort to not make their Chinese masters angry. If Thailand said it wanted to come to America and spend millions of dollars to study American weather, they would receive a hearty welcome and probably could set up shop the same day......

[Rama]

Such a shame. Nasa was going to do weather pattern analysis to benefit SE Asian countries. Wanted to do during the maximum weather conditions during August and September when the weather was the worst (remember the floods last year???). They asked Thailand a year ago and said a year ago they needed an answer by the end of June. They are scientists that actually make a plan with time lines for the logistics of the manpower and equipment, an idea completely incomprehensible to Thai politicians and Thai conspiracy theorists. I am sure the weather scientists at Nasa are baffled by the politics in Thailand. They'll just move onto another project and study weather patterns in another part of the world to help weather forecasters in another part of the world and forget about Thailand. Would have helped Thai scientists in forecasting the weather better. Such a shame. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink (or think).

[pattayaorganic]

I don't even need to mention chemtrails

That pretty much nullifies the rest of your post in terms of credibility.

I was quoting the inevitable comments from conspiricists. If by even mentioning the existence of such in this context removes my credibility then I am afraid you, sir, are beyond hope.

I am a scientist by training and science relies on hypotheses and data to test these hypotheses. There is a dearth of evidence on chemtrails and they have been mentioned in such tin hat venues as the EU & German parliament. To deny any mention of such, on the contrary, destroys any credibility on your part.

Please stick to the facts/issues...

[pattayaorganic]

Such a shame. Nasa was going to do weather pattern analysis to benefit SE Asian countries. Wanted to do during the maximum weather conditions during August and September when the weather was the worst (remember the floods last year???). They asked Thailand a year ago and said a year ago they needed an answer by the end of June. They are scientists that actually make a plan with time lines for the logistics of the manpower and equipment, an idea completely incomprehensible to Thai politicians and Thai conspiracy theorists. I am sure the weather scientists at Nasa are baffled by the politics in Thailand. They'll just move onto another project and study weather patterns in another part of the world to help weather forecasters in another part of the world and forget about Thailand. Would have helped Thai scientists in forecasting the weather better. Such a shame. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink (or think).

So what is it? A weather experiment? Why the use of a former US military base is necessary? Why the mention of "disaster relief"? Thailand needs US GOVT. to help it study weather? If so, then why not cooperate through the normal university/relevant govt. agencies, why does this have to be linked with the use of military base on a background of US military expansion in SE Asia?

At the very best this is a poor PR job by both country's governments...

[Priceless]

So what is it? A weather experiment? Why the use of a former US military base is necessary? Why the mention of "disaster relief"? Thailand needs US GOVT. to help it study weather? If so, then why not cooperate through the normal university/relevant govt. agencies, why does this have to be linked with the use of military base on a background of US military expansion in SE Asia?

At the very best this is a poor PR job by both country's governments...

Why the use of a former US military base is necessary?

Because of the long runway available, ER-2 is not exactly a STOL (Short Take-Off and Landing) aircraft.

Why the mention of "disaster relief"?

This has nothing to do with the NASA project, just happened to come up at the same time.

Thailand needs US GOVT. to help it study weather?

YES, because it does not have access to aircraft with that high altitude capacity.

If so, then why not cooperate through the normal university/relevant govt. agencies

I, for one, do not know of any university with access to aircraft with that high altitude capacity, and NASA IS a "relevant govt. agency".

/ Priceless

Edited June 27, 2012 by Priceless

[Soutpeel]

I am a scientist by training and science relies on hypotheses and data to test these hypotheses. There is a dearth of evidence on chemtrails and they have been mentioned in such tin hat venues as the EU & German parliament. To deny any mention of such, on the contrary, destroys any credibility on your part.

Please stick to the facts/issues...

The nutty professor... ?

I will get my tin foil hat...

[geriatrickid]

I don't even need to mention chemtrails

That pretty much nullifies the rest of your post in terms of credibility.

I was quoting the inevitable comments from conspiricists. If by even mentioning the existence of such in this context removes my credibility then I am afraid you, sir, are beyond hope.

I am a scientist by training and science relies on hypotheses and data to test these hypotheses. There is a dearth of evidence on chemtrails and they have been mentioned in such tin hat venues as the EU & German parliament. To deny any mention of such, on the contrary, destroys any credibility on your part.

Please stick to the facts/issues...

The only dearth of evidence in respect to "chemtrails" is that the people making the claims have nothing substantive upon which to base their claims. It's a simple hoax. Why then should time be wasted in responding to crackpot notions? NASA is not a spy agency If the USA wishes to spy it can use its satellites or send up its spy planes. It doesn't need to send a bunch of middle aged science geeks to Thailand to do that.

In any case it's Thailand's loss.

[Moruya]

So what is it? A weather experiment? Why the use of a former US military base is necessary? Why the mention of "disaster relief"? Thailand needs US GOVT. to help it study weather? If so, then why not cooperate through the normal university/relevant govt. agencies, why does this have to be linked with the use of military base on a background of US military expansion in SE Asia?

At the very best this is a poor PR job by both country's governments...

Why the use of a former US military base is necessary?

Because of the long runway available, ER-2 is not exactly a STOL (Short Take-Off and Landing) aircraft.

Why the mention of "disaster relief"?

This has nothing to do with the NASA project, just happened to come up at the same time.

Thailand needs US GOVT. to help it study weather?

YES, because it does not have access to aircraft with that high altitude capacity.

If so, then why not cooperate through the normal university/relevant govt. agencies

I, for one, do not know of any university with access to aircraft with that high altitude capacity, and NASA IS a "relevant govt. agency".

/ Priceless

They could fill the army's dirigible up with helium, tether it to Jatuporn, put on ski jackets and oxygen breathing equipment and hey presto!!

[pisico]

Such a shame. Nasa was going to do weather pattern analysis to benefit SE Asian countries. Wanted to do during the maximum weather conditions during August and September when the weather was the worst (remember the floods last year???). They asked Thailand a year ago and said a year ago they needed an answer by the end of June. They are scientists that actually make a plan with time lines for the logistics of the manpower and equipment, an idea completely incomprehensible to Thai politicians and Thai conspiracy theorists. I am sure the weather scientists at Nasa are baffled by the politics in Thailand. They'll just move onto another project and study weather patterns in another part of the world to help weather forecasters in another part of the world and forget about Thailand. Would have helped Thai scientists in forecasting the weather better. Such a shame. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink (or think).

Long live Xenophobia, Paranoia and feudal narrowmindness !!!!

[rijb]

In Thailand, this forum, or both?