Court To Decide On Consumer Body's Plea Against GMM: Euro 2012

[webfact]

GMM

Court to decide today on consumer body's plea against GMM

Watchiranont Thongtep

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Civil Court will today decide whether to accept a case filed by the Confederation of Consumer Organisations of Thailand and satellite TV viewers against GMM Grammy, the sole holder of rights to broadcast live Euro 2012 matches along with three free-TV stations.

The confederation claimed that GMM Z, the satellite broadcast unit of GMM Grammy, was responsible for more than 10 million TV viewers being unable to watch the Euro 2012 soccer matches. It considers this a violation of common consumer rights.

The Civil Court spent three days hearing the petition and convened experts, witnesses and others to get the relevant details before making its decision.

On Monday, two plaintiffs and two expert witnesses appeared, while yesterday a representative from GMM Z was questioned on behalf of defendants.

Dew Waratangtagoon, managing director for platform strategy at GMM Z, insisted that the company must comply with the conditions of the rights owner, namely the Union of European Football Associations (Uefa). The company must focus on copyright protection with signal encryption to control the satellite TV signal within the Kingdom.

After negotiations with Uefa to amend its contract with GMM Grammy and extend the rights to other satellite TV platforms such as PSI, IPM and TrueVisions, Infosat, Leotech, DTV's standard definition service, Ideasat, Thaisat and Dynasat satellite dishes equipped with conditioned access (CA) systems, the Uefa replied that such a change would be offset by a critical risk of spillover into territories outside Thailand.

However, the court wanted more technical information regarding the transmission of satellite TV signal from other defendants such as BEC's ThaiTV3, the Royal Army's TV5 and MCOT's Modernine TV or other free-TV operators.

Chumnan Ravivanpong, chief judge of the Civil Court, said that after considering all factors, the court expected to make a decision today.

-- The Nation 2012-06-28

[theblether]

A bit late now eh??

[FOODLOVER]

This I don't understand. Grammy paid for the licensing rights and True should have to pay them. It is not the right of the Thai people to watch a bit of football so why in the hell is the government wasting time with this. In fact making demands that everyone gets to watch a soccer match. Priorities!

[daninthai]

Once again letting the whole world know that people in this country need a basic education. Surveys of student results show Thais are getting stupider every year.

[thaicbr]

This I don't understand. Grammy paid for the licensing rights and True should have to pay them. It is not the right of the Thai people to watch a bit of football so why in the hell is the government wasting time with this. In fact making demands that everyone gets to watch a soccer match. Priorities!

To take attention away from the lack of anything substantial coming from this government.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[nbm47]

If people had bothered to pull their necks out of the sand and looked further a field (well not that far actually), Vietnamese satelite companies K+ and VSTV are showing the Euro finals but on the free national channels where the football would have been shown, has been encrypted. Same in Malaysia, not shown on free to air tv or satellite, all done on strict instructions from UEFA, so it is really out of Grammy hands.

[LuckyLew]

What a waste of the courts time

[whybother]

I believe that one of the amendments to the US constitution was for "the right to watch sport on TV".

[ballpoint]

I believe that one of the amendments to the US constitution was for "the right to watch sport on TV".

Or,relevant to the sport in question, the right to bare (sic) feet.

[animatic]

Bets on if this NGO Consumer group got a nice donation from True top create this noise?

[hansgruber]

It will be euro 2020 before this gets settled.

[shunima]

If people had bothered to pull their necks out of the sand and looked further a field (well not that far actually), Vietnamese satelite companies K+ and VSTV are showing the Euro finals but on the free national channels where the football would have been shown, has been encrypted. Same in Malaysia, not shown on free to air tv or satellite, all done on strict instructions from UEFA, so it is really out of Grammy hands.

No, noooooo. You no understand. We are Khon Thai, we different culture, cannot compare with other country. In Thailand cannot accept strange rule from Falang footbon group. You explain already so many times, but you no understand we are Khon Thai, we have other rules and they are almost same same but better.

[Ferangled]

If people had bothered to pull their necks out of the sand and looked further a field (well not that far actually), Vietnamese satelite companies K+ and VSTV are showing the Euro finals but on the free national channels where the football would have been shown, has been encrypted. Same in Malaysia, not shown on free to air tv or satellite, all done on strict instructions from UEFA, so it is really out of Grammy hands.

I don't see how that is comparable to the situation in Thailand where the tournament has been shown on the FTA channels, but blocked specifically for Truevisions because they weren't prepared to be held over a barrel by GMM.

The tournament was aired on the free national channels because GMM had no channel of their own to use. Look at the UK; BBC and ITV won the rights, aired the tournament on FTA and was viewable on SKY. The big difference being there was no UK version of GMM pulling strings behind the scenes to block Free to Air TV on rival sat providers.

Incidentally I see True have announced 17 HD channels free for subscribers starting next month, finally! For me the fact that Grammy have released a bunch of out of date receivers with no HD capability whatsoever says it all, customer satisfaction clearly isn't an issue, the more modern TV sets won't even accept a composite video feed, it's step backwards not forwards.

At least True are trying to drag Thai TV into modernity, although customer service in the past has been somewhat lacking. I just hope GMM don't come in for the Premiership or the consumers will really lose out.

[Thai at Heart]

Did the actually receive a formal complaint from any specific individual consumers, or is this "consumer group" just doing this on their own behalf?

[shunima]

If people had bothered to pull their necks out of the sand and looked further a field (well not that far actually), Vietnamese satelite companies K+ and VSTV are showing the Euro finals but on the free national channels where the football would have been shown, has been encrypted. Same in Malaysia, not shown on free to air tv or satellite, all done on strict instructions from UEFA, so it is really out of Grammy hands.

I don't see how that is comparable to the situation in Thailand where the tournament has been shown on the FTA channels, but blocked specifically for Truevisions because they weren't prepared to be held over a barrel by GMM.

The tournament was aired on the free national channels because GMM had no channel of their own to use. Look at the UK; BBC and ITV won the rights, aired the tournament on FTA and was viewable on SKY. The big difference being there was no UK version of GMM pulling strings behind the scenes to block Free to Air TV on rival sat providers.

Incidentally I see True have announced 17 HD channels free for subscribers starting next month, finally! For me the fact that Grammy have released a bunch of out of date receivers with no HD capability whatsoever says it all, customer satisfaction clearly isn't an issue, the more modern TV sets won't even accept a composite video feed, it's step backwards not forwards.

At least True are trying to drag Thai TV into modernity, although customer service in the past has been somewhat lacking. I just hope GMM don't come in for the Premiership or the consumers will really lose out.

Read the UEFA rules. No non-encrypted signals via satellites as a satellite signal does not end at a countries border. You have licensees in other countries and they have a legitimate interest that they can offer the product they paid for exclusively to their market. That wouldn't be the case if half of southeast Asia would be able to receive Thai CH3 etc. via satellite without any decoder.

[animatic]

Any other satellite systems getting it?

Or is Truvisions alone complaining, though the others never got it either?

PSI, D-TV etc.

Or are they all broadcasting in the clear, and so would enter other markets

like Cambo, Myanmar Viet Nam Laos etc?

Edited June 28, 2012 by animatic

[Ferangled]

If people had bothered to pull their necks out of the sand and looked further a field (well not that far actually), Vietnamese satelite companies K+ and VSTV are showing the Euro finals but on the free national channels where the football would have been shown, has been encrypted. Same in Malaysia, not shown on free to air tv or satellite, all done on strict instructions from UEFA, so it is really out of Grammy hands.

I don't see how that is comparable to the situation in Thailand where the tournament has been shown on the FTA channels, but blocked specifically for Truevisions because they weren't prepared to be held over a barrel by GMM.

The tournament was aired on the free national channels because GMM had no channel of their own to use. Look at the UK; BBC and ITV won the rights, aired the tournament on FTA and was viewable on SKY. The big difference being there was no UK version of GMM pulling strings behind the scenes to block Free to Air TV on rival sat providers.

Incidentally I see True have announced 17 HD channels free for subscribers starting next month, finally! For me the fact that Grammy have released a bunch of out of date receivers with no HD capability whatsoever says it all, customer satisfaction clearly isn't an issue, the more modern TV sets won't even accept a composite video feed, it's step backwards not forwards.

At least True are trying to drag Thai TV into modernity, although customer service in the past has been somewhat lacking. I just hope GMM don't come in for the Premiership or the consumers will really lose out.

Read the UEFA rules. No non-encrypted signals via satellites as a satellite signal does not end at a countries border. You have licensees in other countries and they have a legitimate interest that they can offer the product they paid for exclusively to their market. That wouldn't be the case if half of southeast Asia would be able to receive Thai CH3 etc. via satellite without any decoder.

Please point out in my post where I reference the UEFA rules. This has nothing to do with the issue of GMM effectively hijacking FTA channels and preventing other services accessing FTA channels while showing "their" content.

This is an issue unique to Thailand and it's selective use of rules and regulations, interpreted to suit whoever has control. It has nothing to do with country borders. How many people in mainland Europe used Sky to watch the tournament despite not being in the UK? Sky's footprint covers a huge area outside of the UK.

How many people in Thailand watched the tournament on Malaysian Sat services I wonder...

It's purely a marketing ploy by GMM to force inferior products onto people by limiting access to channels that are FTA selectively. When in the past has Truevisions limited FTA access to other satellite services when showing UEFA tournaments on Thai FTA channels?

[1bbcd5]

I think that's awesome.Like some sort of epic lasagna.

[thaihome]

If people had bothered to pull their necks out of the sand and looked further a field (well not that far actually), Vietnamese satelite companies K+ and VSTV are showing the Euro finals but on the free national channels where the football would have been shown, has been encrypted. Same in Malaysia, not shown on free to air tv or satellite, all done on strict instructions from UEFA, so it is really out of Grammy hands.

Indeed, FIFA has said there should not be any unencrypted satellite broadcasts. Another poster in another thread proved that True encrypts the free over the air signals it broadcasts.

What it comes down to is Grammy prevented True from carrying the matches on the free over the air channels in order to sell their boxes that are designed to use the True dish antennas.

TH

[Ferangled]

If people had bothered to pull their necks out of the sand and looked further a field (well not that far actually), Vietnamese satelite companies K+ and VSTV are showing the Euro finals but on the free national channels where the football would have been shown, has been encrypted. Same in Malaysia, not shown on free to air tv or satellite, all done on strict instructions from UEFA, so it is really out of Grammy hands.

Indeed, FIFA has said there should not be any unencrypted satellite broadcasts. Another poster in another thread proved that True encrypts the free over the air signals it broadcasts.

What it comes down to is Grammy prevented True from carrying the matches on the free over the air channels in order to sell their boxes that are designed to use the True dish antennas.

TH

I'm surprised that True haven't sued Grammy for using their satellite dishes, although I guess it's actually their customers who are breaking the law. Those little red dishes are after all the property of True, installed by True installation teams, paid for by True off the back of the subscriptions paid by their customers... GMM retailers actually advise customers to use the True dish and cable for their product. Do GMM even have a satellite dish installation team?

I can't understand the amount of people supporting a company who are touting a totally inferior product and using such under hand tactics to do so.

[animatic]

If people had bothered to pull their necks out of the sand and looked further a field (well not that far actually), Vietnamese satelite companies K+ and VSTV are showing the Euro finals but on the free national channels where the football would have been shown, has been encrypted. Same in Malaysia, not shown on free to air tv or satellite, all done on strict instructions from UEFA, so it is really out of Grammy hands.

Indeed, FIFA has said there should not be any unencrypted satellite broadcasts. Another poster in another thread proved that True encrypts the free over the air signals it broadcasts.

What it comes down to is Grammy prevented True from carrying the matches on the free over the air channels in order to sell their boxes that are designed to use the True dish antennas.

TH

A satellite receptor aimed at the same satellite gets all the same signals.

True can pick up the GMM Z ones too, but they filter them out with their box.

True didn't pay GMM to cross license the feeds. They could have.

It is mainly a case of them both using different channels on the

same satellites downlink on the same footprint, that alows connection to

a True Box or a GMM Box. was this intentional, well there are not so

many choices for downlinks to this area at this point.

The dish and receptor isn't exactly terribly pricey. 1,700 baht.

Edited June 28, 2012 by animatic

[Ferangled]

If people had bothered to pull their necks out of the sand and looked further a field (well not that far actually), Vietnamese satelite companies K+ and VSTV are showing the Euro finals but on the free national channels where the football would have been shown, has been encrypted. Same in Malaysia, not shown on free to air tv or satellite, all done on strict instructions from UEFA, so it is really out of Grammy hands.

Indeed, FIFA has said there should not be any unencrypted satellite broadcasts. Another poster in another thread proved that True encrypts the free over the air signals it broadcasts.

What it comes down to is Grammy prevented True from carrying the matches on the free over the air channels in order to sell their boxes that are designed to use the True dish antennas.

TH

A satellite receptor aimed at the same satellite gets all the same signals.

True can pick up the GMM Z ones too, but they filter them out with their box.

True didn't pay GMM to cross license the feeds. They could have.

It is mainly a case of them both using different channels on the

same satellites downlink on the same footprint, that alows connection to

a True Box or a GMM Box. was this intentional, well there are not so

many choices for downlinks to this area at this point.

The dish and receptor isn't exactly terribly pricey. 1,700 baht.

Yes, only a weeks wage for most Thais, don't know what all the fuss is about... how does your story fit in with GMM blocking Thai terrestrial on True's cable TV network?

[whybother]

If people had bothered to pull their necks out of the sand and looked further a field (well not that far actually), Vietnamese satelite companies K+ and VSTV are showing the Euro finals but on the free national channels where the football would have been shown, has been encrypted. Same in Malaysia, not shown on free to air tv or satellite, all done on strict instructions from UEFA, so it is really out of Grammy hands.

Indeed, FIFA has said there should not be any unencrypted satellite broadcasts. Another poster in another thread proved that True encrypts the free over the air signals it broadcasts.

What it comes down to is Grammy prevented True from carrying the matches on the free over the air channels in order to sell their boxes that are designed to use the True dish antennas.

TH

A satellite receptor aimed at the same satellite gets all the same signals.

True can pick up the GMM Z ones too, but they filter them out with their box.

True didn't pay GMM to cross license the feeds. They could have.

It is mainly a case of them both using different channels on the

same satellites downlink on the same footprint, that alows connection to

a True Box or a GMM Box. was this intentional, well there are not so

many choices for downlinks to this area at this point.

The dish and receptor isn't exactly terribly pricey. 1,700 baht.

Yes, only a weeks wage for most Thais, don't know what all the fuss is about... how does your story fit in with GMM blocking Thai terrestrial on True's cable TV network?

The FTA networks agreed to GMMs contracts. Go and complain to them.

Sent from my shoe phone

[Ferangled]

The FTA networks agreed to GMMs contracts. Go and complain to them.

Sent from my shoe phone

Thanks for that and here was I thinking this was a forum for discussion of the topic... incidentally I watched the tournament on the internet with full BBC commentary, pre match and after match analysis etc. The issue isn't about "complaining" to anyone, the issue is Thailand setting a fair precedent for future live sporting events so we don't experience another cock up of this magnitude.

We have a bunch of posters claiming that GMM/ Thai TV networks had their hands tied by UEFA and this issue was as a result of satellite footprint extending across borders.

If that is the case why were True not permitted to broadcast free Thai terrestrial TV via their cable network? It's quite a simple question which your rather blunt, simplistic and out of context reply does nothing to answer.

[whybother]

The FTA networks agreed to GMMs contracts. Go and complain to them.

Sent from my shoe phone

Thanks for that and here was I thinking this was a forum for discussion of the topic... incidentally I watched the tournament on the internet with full BBC commentary, pre match and after match analysis etc. The issue isn't about "complaining" to anyone, the issue is Thailand setting a fair precedent for future live sporting events so we don't experience another cock up of this magnitude.

We have a bunch of posters claiming that GMM/ Thai TV networks had their hands tied by UEFA and this issue was as a result of satellite footprint extending across borders.

If that is the case why were True not permitted to broadcast free Thai terrestrial TV via their cable network? It's quite a simple question which your rather blunt, simplistic and out of context reply does nothing to answer.

GMM had their hands tied by the contracts that they signed with UEFA. The FTA networks had their hands tied by the contracts that they signed with GMM.

People don't have an inherent right to watch sport on TV. There are many sports that are only on pay tv. There are even some sports where you have to pay extra for on pay tv.

Sent from my shoe phone

[Ferangled]

The FTA networks agreed to GMMs contracts. Go and complain to them.

Sent from my shoe phone

Thanks for that and here was I thinking this was a forum for discussion of the topic... incidentally I watched the tournament on the internet with full BBC commentary, pre match and after match analysis etc. The issue isn't about "complaining" to anyone, the issue is Thailand setting a fair precedent for future live sporting events so we don't experience another cock up of this magnitude.

We have a bunch of posters claiming that GMM/ Thai TV networks had their hands tied by UEFA and this issue was as a result of satellite footprint extending across borders.

If that is the case why were True not permitted to broadcast free Thai terrestrial TV via their cable network? It's quite a simple question which your rather blunt, simplistic and out of context reply does nothing to answer.

GMM had their hands tied by the contracts that they signed with UEFA. The FTA networks had their hands tied by the contracts that they signed with GMM.

People don't have an inherent right to watch sport on TV. There are many sports that are only on pay tv. There are even some sports where you have to pay extra for on pay tv.

Sent from my shoe phone

Thai people do have an inherent right to watch Thai FTA TV! They pay for it with their taxes <deleted>.

You don't seem to grasp this at all. The type of content is irrelevant. These are FTA Thai national terrestrial channels. If you don't know the answer and don't understand the concept of FTA channels please don't reply and let someone who has a better understand of the situation answer the questions.

The Thai Government has used these channels to broadcast national warnings in the past - if a satellite provider and those operating what are intended to be free channels are permitted to deliberately cut access to these channels so 10 million viewers get a black screen instead of potentially an important Government announcement, in my humble opinion, that is an issue that needs resolving and action taken against those accountable.

[animatic]

The FTA networks agreed to GMMs contracts. Go and complain to them.

Sent from my shoe phone

Thanks for that and here was I thinking this was a forum for discussion of the topic... incidentally I watched the tournament on the internet with full BBC commentary, pre match and after match analysis etc. The issue isn't about "complaining" to anyone, the issue is Thailand setting a fair precedent for future live sporting events so we don't experience another cock up of this magnitude.

We have a bunch of posters claiming that GMM/ Thai TV networks had their hands tied by UEFA and this issue was as a result of satellite footprint extending across borders.

If that is the case why were True not permitted to broadcast free Thai terrestrial TV via their cable network? It's quite a simple question which your rather blunt, simplistic and out of context reply does nothing to answer.

GMM had their hands tied by the contracts that they signed with UEFA. The FTA networks had their hands tied by the contracts that they signed with GMM.

People don't have an inherent right to watch sport on TV. There are many sports that are only on pay tv. There are even some sports where you have to pay extra for on pay tv.

Sent from my shoe phone

Thai people do have an inherent right to watch Thai FTA TV! They pay for it with their taxes <deleted>.

You don't seem to grasp this at all. The type of content is irrelevant. These are FTA Thai national terrestrial channels. If you don't know the answer and don't understand the concept of FTA channels please don't reply and let someone who has a better understand of the situation answer the questions.

The Thai Government has used these channels to broadcast national warnings in the past - if a satellite provider and those operating what are intended to be free channels are permitted to deliberately cut access to these channels so 10 million viewers get a black screen instead of potentially an important Government announcement, in my humble opinion, that is an issue that needs resolving and action taken against those accountable.

Yes, when they are FTA,

when they are relinked back up to satellite that is a different situation

when it is on True, even if linked free it is still from satellite and over wider area

and thus contravenes the UEFA agreement unless fees are charged.

[thaicbr]

The FTA networks agreed to GMMs contracts. Go and complain to them.

Sent from my shoe phone

Thanks for that and here was I thinking this was a forum for discussion of the topic... incidentally I watched the tournament on the internet with full BBC commentary, pre match and after match analysis etc. The issue isn't about "complaining" to anyone, the issue is Thailand setting a fair precedent for future live sporting events so we don't experience another cock up of this magnitude.

We have a bunch of posters claiming that GMM/ Thai TV networks had their hands tied by UEFA and this issue was as a result of satellite footprint extending across borders.

If that is the case why were True not permitted to broadcast free Thai terrestrial TV via their cable network? It's quite a simple question which your rather blunt, simplistic and out of context reply does nothing to answer.

GMM had their hands tied by the contracts that they signed with UEFA. The FTA networks had their hands tied by the contracts that they signed with GMM.

People don't have an inherent right to watch sport on TV. There are many sports that are only on pay tv. There are even some sports where you have to pay extra for on pay tv.

Sent from my shoe phone

Thai people do have an inherent right to watch Thai FTA TV! They pay for it with their taxes <deleted>.

You don't seem to grasp this at all. The type of content is irrelevant. These are FTA Thai national terrestrial channels. If you don't know the answer and don't understand the concept of FTA channels please don't reply and let someone who has a better understand of the situation answer the questions.

The Thai Government has used these channels to broadcast national warnings in the past - if a satellite provider and those operating what are intended to be free channels are permitted to deliberately cut access to these channels so 10 million viewers get a black screen instead of potentially an important Government announcement, in my humble opinion, that is an issue that needs resolving and action taken against those accountable.

Umm how do the thai people pay for FTA Tv with their taxes. They are mostly privately owned. There is only one that is run by the government and that still takes advertising revenue. <deleted>

As for this disagreement. TRUE didn't want to pay. They didn't want to encrypt the signal. More fool TRUE. GMM booked the space on FTA most if not all Thais can access this legal medium. You on the hand accessed it via an illegal internet sites. Shame on you

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[Ferangled]

Yes, when they are FTA,

when they are relinked back up to satellite that is a different situation

when it is on True, even if linked free it is still from satellite and over wider area

and thus contravenes the UEFA agreement unless fees are charged.

So now these are FTA channels only when they want to be?!

I don't believe UEFA have said anything about extra "fees being charged" to permit Truevisions coverage. The rights were bought by GMM, the decision was theirs whether or not to share with True, as was the use of Thai terrestrial channels to air the tournament and create this situation.

I notice you keeping avoiding the pertinent question here - why, if as you suggest, this block was purely a result of a UEFA ruling about satellite coverage, were the channels not made available for cable providers, eg. Truevisions cable???

[Pseudolus]

LOL - they really should ditch the courts here and open an ebay account called "thaijudiciary". Then, for each case, whack it up on ebay!

"For sale: Results of trial of Miss HiSo well connected family V's the state. Reserve price; 2m Baht - Bid Now"

"For Sale: results of Trial of GMM v Confederation of Consumer Organisations. No reserve as only public wronged here. Current bid, 357baht Comes complete with 200,000 GMM digiboxes, used once and in As new condition"