Sukampol Dismisses Rumours Of Top General Conspiring To Oust Thai Govt

[h90]

Democracy in thailand is flawed but still its the best system for any country

Based on what informations?

Go campaign for a military dictatorship elsewhere.Try the USA

???? there were a lot successful governments that weren't democratic in the past worldwide.

[h90]

Totally dysfunctional Gov. The Thai people would be far better off if the Military ran the Government. Things seem to run smoother and safer. I hear this from Thais all the time. Let the military run things and get rid of the corrupt Gov.

Yet another stupid proposal from and insider or Hiso (or both). To seek personal wealth at the cost of an unstable homeland is the policiy of imbeciles and thieves. If Thailand wishes to steam ahead with the rest of the world she has to embrace democracy. Thailand's future lies in it's Constructional Monarchy with all citizens supporting their government and their Monarch.

A representative democracy is a tool to find out who is the most suitable to lead the country. If people can buy the votes than it isn't a representative democracy than it is a plutocracy.

Or from the other side, if Yingluck is the most capable person in Thailand than we should either all commit suicide or the this kind of democracy is just now not working.

I think the average General would be the better leader than Yingluck, and a General could easily buy himself into power if he would have enough money.

I don't see much of a difference if you buy yourself into power or if you seize it with the military. Both has nothing to do with democracy in its original meaning.

[Reasonableman]

""I don't see much of a difference if you buy yourself into power or if you seize it with the military. Both has nothing to do with democracy in its original meaning"

Same outcome, different methodology. Both undemocratic. Good point.

[phiphidon]

So I think your comparison of what would happen in the UK is well off the mark.

The UK was the first nation on Earth to forcibly remove a Prime Minister using a 'vote of no confidence'. That was in 1782. Since then a total of eleven Prime ministers have been removed from office by this method, most recently in 1979 with Callaghan who was kicked out for incompetence.

Blair was a lawyer, his wife was a lawyer, most of his cabinet were lawyers. They planned everything to stay within the law wherever possible, or to stretch laws and relegate blame. Had he openly committed the crimes that Yingluck has openly committed, accompanied by parliamentary absenteeism and refusal to debate or even read his own bills, Blair would have been out by 'no confidence' and facing criminal charges.

Meetings at number 10 and Chequers are not secret meetings in hotels with secret businessmen and they are not denied afterwards. Number ten visitors are cataloged for one thing, hotel rooms are not. You are really stretching your credibility comparing Cameron's aide with Yingluck.

Cameron attends Parliamentary debates and answers questions unscripted there. He is doing his job. Yingluck is not. When she adds ethics-violations, abuse of office to her parliamentary absenteeism and refusal to read/discuss her own bills, she becomes eminently 'no confidence' voteworthy. And she should also be arrested for human rights / privacy violations re; distribution of home addressed to an angry mob. I confirm that Cameron, Blair, and Brown would all have been arrested and voted on for the private address thing alone. Especially if they refused to investigate, prosecute and sack the people responsible for it as Yingluck has done.

My posts are nowhere near as verbose as yours so I expect you to be able to read them properly. Meetings with businessmen and women on yachts, at race meetings etc were kept secret until revealed. I stand by my comparison.

Yingluck had nothing to do with an aide passing out judges addresses so that part of your rant is nonsense for a start. I was not comparing camerons aide to yingluck, I was comparing him to the aide that did give out judges names and addresses, so that comparison stands as well.

The rest of your rant I didn't bother with.

[kerryk]

""I don't see much of a difference if you buy yourself into power or if you seize it with the military. Both has nothing to do with democracy in its original meaning"

Same outcome, different methodology. Both undemocratic. Good point.

One is violent. Kind of like war. Thousands of people could get killed and did at other points of time in Thailand. The other is how office is won in every other country in the world. It is kind of rare that the person who spends the most does not win.

Reasonableness about a minus 3 on this one.

[Yunla]

My posts are nowhere near as verbose as yours so I expect you to be able to read them properly. Meetings with businessmen and women on yachts, at race meetings etc were kept secret until revealed. I stand by my comparison.

Yingluck had nothing to do with an aide passing out judges addresses so that part of your rant is nonsense for a start. I was not comparing camerons aide to yingluck, I was comparing him to the aide that did give out judges names and addresses, so that comparison stands as well.

The rest of your rant I didn't bother with.

You bother with the low-hanging fruit only and even then you struggle with it. You don't need to explain to me its as plain as day.

The PTP secretary who handed out the addresses, is the fall-guy, he is not the person who acquired the list of addresses in my opinion. He probably got a fat envelope from Dubai for taking the heat. The real criminals are further up in the PTP, and most likely that involves Yingluck too and her boss in Dubai.

In either case it should never have happened, and the morning after it happened there should have been (by Yingluck) ; public apology, launching an enquiry, and suspensions. None of this has happened and it has been a long time. Again, her failure to deal with this outrageous crime on her watch, is also a cause for no-confidence.

Secondly I notice your funny little attempt to compare phone hacking by an aide in the UK etc. with the far greater crime of a sitting Prime Minister of Thailand, sneaking out of parliamentary debates to hold secret meetings with businessmen in hotel rooms, and then when it is uncovered, her party first denies it then admits it. The videotapes from the hotel go missing. I hope that even you will see the difference between this type of shady criminal behaviour by a current prime minister, and the actions of a pm's aide in the UK being involved with some phone hack.

The point you cheerfully overlook in your cherrypicking is that if the UK prime minister had openly done the things Yingluck has openly done in the last ten months, they would be facing no-confidence vote and criminal charges. I wasn't asking you to dredge up other inquiries from the UK, I was saying that Yingluck's actions, and the PTP actions, would have got them kicked out of power in the UK. People have recieved no-confidence votes in the UK over far less than what Yingluck has done this last year.

Again, Yingluck and PTP, the full list of things they have done including the absenteeism and failure to Q&A / debate, failure to implement any but the most comical half-baked or plain failed policies, the ethics violations and the human-rights abuse, privacy violations are totalled up to 'no confidence' with a garnishing of criminal charges ontop.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Yunla

[Reasonableman]

""I don't see much of a difference if you buy yourself into power or if you seize it with the military. Both has nothing to do with democracy in its original meaning"

Same outcome, different methodology. Both undemocratic. Good point.

One is violent. Kind of like war. Thousands of people could get killed and did at other points of time in Thailand. The other is how office is won in every other country in the world. It is kind of rare that the person who spends the most does not win.

Reasonableness about a minus 3 on this one.

While it is indeed heartening to find you can count up to 3, you seem to have missed the point of the posts. IMO both coups and vote-buying (direct or indirect) subvert the democratic process, and no matter how many examples you might give that money wins elections, one way or another, i still see them both as antidemocratic. If you wish to argue otherwise, go ahead.

[kerryk]

""I don't see much of a difference if you buy yourself into power or if you seize it with the military. Both has nothing to do with democracy in its original meaning"

Same outcome, different methodology. Both undemocratic. Good point.

One is violent. Kind of like war. Thousands of people could get killed and did at other points of time in Thailand. The other is how office is won in every other country in the world. It is kind of rare that the person who spends the most does not win.

Reasonableness about a minus 3 on this one.

While it is indeed heartening to find you can count up to 3, you seem to have missed the point of the posts. IMO both coups and vote-buying (direct or indirect) subvert the democratic process, and no matter how many examples you might give that money wins elections, one way or another, i still see them both as antidemocratic. If you wish to argue otherwise, go ahead.

OK here goes. Both sides have the same opportunity to raise and distribute money. That seems fair and democratic to me. I assume don't because your side lost. Sorry bout that.

[MAJIC]

Gimme a little help here. Isn't the Defense minister part of the current government and he says, “Defence Minister Sukampol Suwannathat yesterday dismissed rumours about a top Army general and a coalition MP conspiring to topple the government.”

But all you guys are saying that the current government is so bad because????

and prefer military dictatorships but the way I read the OP it is about the current government denying a coup attempt not the reverse eh?

"I mean I know you guys don't like democracies"

Well I think we all probably could like Democracies,but this Government is never going to show us one,

[kerryk]

Gimme a little help here. Isn't the Defense minister part of the current government and he says, “Defence Minister Sukampol Suwannathat yesterday dismissed rumours about a top Army general and a coalition MP conspiring to topple the government.”

But all you guys are saying that the current government is so bad because????

and prefer military dictatorships but the way I read the OP it is about the current government denying a coup attempt not the reverse eh?

"I mean I know you guys don't like democracies"

Well I think we all probably could like Democracies,but this Government is never going to show us one,

That is of course obvious but given the comparison between the current government and a military coup government I think the current government gets the award for being closer to a democracy,

Of course you could ask reasonable man as soon as he figures out how both parties being able to compete on a level field is not democratic,

[Reasonableman]

The best democracy money can buy. If that's the extent of your aspiration, so be it. I was hoping you could make it past 3. Oh well...

[kerryk]

The best democracy money can buy. If that's the extent of your aspiration, so be it. I was hoping you could make it past 3. Oh well...

Obama’s $65.5 million for airtime dwarfed the $22.5 million that McCain spent. Guess who won?

[MAJIC]

Gimme a little help here. Isn't the Defense minister part of the current government and he says, “Defence Minister Sukampol Suwannathat yesterday dismissed rumours about a top Army general and a coalition MP conspiring to topple the government.”

But all you guys are saying that the current government is so bad because????

and prefer military dictatorships but the way I read the OP it is about the current government denying a coup attempt not the reverse eh?

"I mean I know you guys don't like democracies"

Well I think we all probably could like Democracies,but this Government is never going to show us one,

Of course you could ask reasonable man as soon as he figures out how both parties being able to compete on a level field is not democratic,

"That is of course obvious but given the comparison between the current government and a military coup government I think"

the current government gets the award for being closer to a democracy"

This Government is nowhere near a Democracy,and don't kid us or yourself they ever will be!

Edited June 30, 2012 by MAJIC

[kerryk]

Gimme a little help here. Isn't the Defense minister part of the current government and he says, “Defence Minister Sukampol Suwannathat yesterday dismissed rumours about a top Army general and a coalition MP conspiring to topple the government.”

But all you guys are saying that the current government is so bad because????

and prefer military dictatorships but the way I read the OP it is about the current government denying a coup attempt not the reverse eh?

"I mean I know you guys don't like democracies"

Well I think we all probably could like Democracies,but this Government is never going to show us one,

Of course you could ask reasonable man as soon as he figures out how both parties being able to compete on a level field is not democratic,

"That is of course obvious but given the comparison between the current government and a military coup government I think"

the current government gets the award for being closer to a democracy,

This Government is nowhere near a Democracy,and don't kid us or yourself they ever will be!

I didn't say that did I? What did I say? "given the comparison between the current government and a military coup government I think the current government gets the award for being closer to a democracy,"

[Reasonableman]

The best democracy money can buy. If that's the extent of your aspiration, so be it. I was hoping you could make it past 3. Oh well...

Obama’s $65.5 million for airtime dwarfed the $22.5 million that McCain spent. Guess who won?

This was answered in #97. It really helps if you read and comprehend the first time.

[kerryk]

""I don't see much of a difference if you buy yourself into power or if you seize it with the military. Both has nothing to do with democracy in its original meaning"

Same outcome, different methodology. Both undemocratic. Good point.

One is violent. Kind of like war. Thousands of people could get killed and did at other points of time in Thailand. The other is how office is won in every other country in the world. It is kind of rare that the person who spends the most does not win.

Reasonableness about a minus 3 on this one.

While it is indeed heartening to find you can count up to 3, you seem to have missed the point of the posts. IMO both coups and vote-buying (direct or indirect) subvert the democratic process, and no matter how many examples you might give that money wins elections, one way or another, i still see them both as antidemocratic. If you wish to argue otherwise, go ahead.

It would help if you remembered what you posted. You did say "If you wish to argue otherwise go ahead." All elections are won with money. Time to leave OZ and come to the real world. That is not Australia that reference with the land with the wizard and Dorothy, the only place where elections are not won with money.

[Roadman]

Gimme a little help here. Isn't the Defense minister part of the current government and he says, “Defence Minister Sukampol Suwannathat yesterday dismissed rumours about a top Army general and a coalition MP conspiring to topple the government.”

But all you guys are saying that the current government is so bad because????

and prefer military dictatorships but the way I read the OP it is about the current government denying a coup attempt not the reverse eh?

"I mean I know you guys don't like democracies"

Well I think we all probably could like Democracies,but this Government is never going to show us one,

That is of course obvious but given the comparison between the current government and a military coup government I think the current government gets the award for being closer to a democracy,

Of course you could ask reasonable man as soon as he figures out how both parties being able to compete on a level field is not democratic,

Disagree completely. The true democracies in the world are based on law and order, high moral standards and values and the betterment of the people and country you are serving above yourself.

This lot of low life scum that make up this current government do not as a whole and mostly as individuals tick any or very few of those democratic KPI's. The current and recent Queens Brigade Army General's involved from the 2006 coup onwards tick more of those KPI's than not only the Pheu Thai scum but also most in the Dems and ther bed mates that they had to power broke with.

The Thai 2006 coup is not a democratic process compared to the best democracies but then those democracies have non corrupt police forces and courts that are the citizens protectors. Given the corruption and servitude in Thailand that has the country including the police and justice as a whole morally corrupt, the Army fills that role. That they were able to 2006 coup the failed non elected govenance of the current convicted fugitive criminal low life in Dubai, gain an acceptance from approx. 70% of the Thai electorate on a new constitution and then hand the governance of the country back to the people in such a short time and stay out of the governance of the country even while this lot of scum are failing dismally to govern it for the better of all the people instead of the one Dubai scum bag speaks more of democracy.

This Pheu Thai scum more democratic? Don't make me laugh. Pray tell where one of the true democracies of the world has a convicted fugitive criminal running the country from abroad?

And one other point. There are several democratic countries in the world where the PM is not decided with who has the most financial backing.

[kerryk]

Gimme a little help here. Isn't the Defense minister part of the current government and he says, “Defence Minister Sukampol Suwannathat yesterday dismissed rumours about a top Army general and a coalition MP conspiring to topple the government.”

But all you guys are saying that the current government is so bad because????

and prefer military dictatorships but the way I read the OP it is about the current government denying a coup attempt not the reverse eh?

"I mean I know you guys don't like democracies"

Well I think we all probably could like Democracies,but this Government is never going to show us one,

That is of course obvious but given the comparison between the current government and a military coup government I think the current government gets the award for being closer to a democracy,

Of course you could ask reasonable man as soon as he figures out how both parties being able to compete on a level field is not democratic,

Disagree completely. The true democracies in the world are based on law and order, high moral standards and values and the betterment of the people and country you are serving above yourself.

This lot of low life scum that make up this current government do not as a whole and mostly as individuals tick any or very few of those democratic KPI's. The current and recent Queens Brigade Army General's involved from the 2006 coup onwards tick more of those KPI's than not only the Pheu Thai scum but also most in the Dems and ther bed mates that they had to power broke with.

The Thai 2006 coup is not a democratic process compared to the best democracies but then those democracies have non corrupt police forces and courts that are the citizens protectors. Given the corruption and servitude in Thailand that has the country including the police and justice as a whole morally corrupt, the Army fills that role. That they were able to 2006 coup the failed non elected govenance of the current convicted fugitive criminal low life in Dubai, gain an acceptance from approx. 70% of the Thai electorate on a new constitution and then hand the governance of the country back to the people in such a short time and stay out of the governance of the country even while this lot of scum are failing dismally to govern it for the better of all the people instead of the one Dubai scum bag speaks more of democracy.

This Pheu Thai scum more democratic? Don't make me laugh. Pray tell where one of the true democracies of the world has a convicted fugitive criminal running the country from abroad?

And one other point. There are several democratic countries in the world where the PM is not decided with who has the most financial backing.

You wrote "Disagree completely. The true democracies in the world are based on law and order, high moral standards and values and the betterment of the people and country you are serving above yourself."

Name me ten? How many countries in the world? 200. Unless you count Disneyworld. You are posting from Disneyworld right?

The democratic process has nothing t do with high standards or values. It is a simple definition of a political system. How about we look at the majority of the people in the world? China and India. What percent live under a true democracy? 1% of the worlds population. It must not be too easy or even a good idea if only 1% of the world is democratic?

[Bill662]

Army is very influential in thai politics And you know that when army is involved in politics it becomes a mess

[pauljones]

Democracy in Thailand is a sham.

The Military and 'yellow shirts' pay lip service to democracy to please (and milk) the USA.

It started during the Vietnam war, Thailand assisting the USA against the cancer of communism.

The yellow shirts, even with the Army and a $35billion nestegg can't field a candidate that a majority of Thais approve of.

If they were serious about fair elections and democracy they would form a political party and campaign for the vote.

The problem is, they know they won't win so they go with mob rule(airport seizure), tanks and crooked courts.

The party is over for the military brass and yellow team and they are desperate.

Call out the tanks!

[Buchholz]

Democracy in Thailand is a sham.

The Military and 'yellow shirts' pay lip service to democracy to please (and milk) the USA.

It started during the Vietnam war, Thailand assisting the USA against the cancer of communism.

The yellow shirts, even with the Army and a $35billion nestegg can't field a candidate that a majority of Thais approve of.

If they were serious about fair elections and democracy they would form a political party and campaign for the vote.

The problem is, they know they won't win so they go with mob rule(airport seizure), tanks and crooked courts.

The party is over for the military brass and yellow team and they are desperate.

Call out the tanks!

The should call out the tanks over your gross misrepresentations of reality.

"yellow shirts during the Vietnam War"...

"$35 Billion nestegg"...

.

[animatic]

Totally dysfunctional Gov. The Thai people would be far better off if the Military ran the Government. Things seem to run smoother and safer. I hear this from Thais all the time. Let the military run things and get rid of the corrupt Gov.

Currrent government is elected by majority . Last time military government came in it was a mess Corruption went sky rocketing

Funny, droll, sad, ironic,

how the corruption is always so much greater, and so much more shameless,

under the alleged 'Thaksin civilian-elected governments',

but they go to such extremes to hide it, stifle discusion of it, or stonewall over it.

And yet always try so darned hard to spin it to the other side as being so much worse.

Edited July 1, 2012 by animatic

[kerryk]

Totally dysfunctional Gov. The Thai people would be far better off if the Military ran the Government. Things seem to run smoother and safer. I hear this from Thais all the time. Let the military run things and get rid of the corrupt Gov.

Currrent government is elected by majority . Last time military government came in it was a mess Corruption went sky rocketing

Funny, droll, sad, ironic,

how the corruption is always so much greater, and so much more shameless,

under the alleged 'Thaksin civilian-elected governments',

but they go to such extremes to hide it, stifle discusion of it, or stonewall over it.

And yet always try so darned hard to spin it to the other side as being so much worse.

Why alleged?

[phiphidon]

My posts are nowhere near as verbose as yours so I expect you to be able to read them properly. Meetings with businessmen and women on yachts, at race meetings etc were kept secret until revealed. I stand by my comparison.

Yingluck had nothing to do with an aide passing out judges addresses so that part of your rant is nonsense for a start. I was not comparing camerons aide to yingluck, I was comparing him to the aide that did give out judges names and addresses, so that comparison stands as well.

The rest of your rant I didn't bother with.

You bother with the low-hanging fruit only and even then you struggle with it. You don't need to explain to me its as plain as day.

The PTP secretary who handed out the addresses, is the fall-guy, he is not the person who acquired the list of addresses in my opinion. He probably got a fat envelope from Dubai for taking the heat. The real criminals are further up in the PTP, and most likely that involves Yingluck too and her boss in Dubai.

In either case it should never have happened, and the morning after it happened there should have been (by Yingluck) ; public apology, launching an enquiry, and suspensions. None of this has happened and it has been a long time. Again, her failure to deal with this outrageous crime on her watch, is also a cause for no-confidence.

Secondly I notice your funny little attempt to compare phone hacking by an aide in the UK etc. with the far greater crime of a sitting Prime Minister of Thailand, sneaking out of parliamentary debates to hold secret meetings with businessmen in hotel rooms, and then when it is uncovered, her party first denies it then admits it. The videotapes from the hotel go missing. I hope that even you will see the difference between this type of shady criminal behaviour by a current prime minister, and the actions of a pm's aide in the UK being involved with some phone hack.

The point you cheerfully overlook in your cherrypicking is that if the UK prime minister had openly done the things Yingluck has openly done in the last ten months, they would be facing no-confidence vote and criminal charges. I wasn't asking you to dredge up other inquiries from the UK, I was saying that Yingluck's actions, and the PTP actions, would have got them kicked out of power in the UK. People have recieved no-confidence votes in the UK over far less than what Yingluck has done this last year.

Again, Yingluck and PTP, the full list of things they have done including the absenteeism and failure to Q&A / debate, failure to implement any but the most comical half-baked or plain failed policies, the ethics violations and the human-rights abuse, privacy violations are totalled up to 'no confidence' with a garnishing of criminal charges ontop.

Yunla, your comprehension skills are amazingly lacking - read my post again, you are either deliberately reading it wrongly or genuinely do have comprehension problems. None of of your interpretation (above) of my post is correct. It is pointless trying to discuss anything with you, each "reply" just brings more vitriole.

Now you have identified yourself as one of those foreigners who attended the airport protests (supposedly) in support of those who wanted to oust the government of the time it explains your mindset, similar to jeff savage................