How Much To Build A Shophouse?

[seesip]

Would like a rough estimate of how much it would cost to build a double wide, 3 story shophouse.

[anto]

B3m

[Thailand]

1 to 6 million depending on location.

[tisong]

1 to 6 million depending on location.

Why does location matter? Or does your estimate include the land it's on?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

He's probably looking at building costs only, not the cost of the land.

If this is strictly utilitarian, and no fancy living place upstairs that could include nice kitchens and bathrooms, then I think you can do it for about 1 million. (Would include a basic toilet, sink & shower on every level, but the typical small 'under the stairs' job.)

It's a bit of a 'piece of string' question; some shophouses can get pretty nice. The below would cost significantly more, especially if you put usable living space upstairs. (Also note there's windows on the side walls, balconies with sliding doors and so on. Price shoots up as soon as you go with anything above bog-standard. For example you could tile the entire thing with the cheapest tiles you can find at Home Sukkypan, or you could put in nice big living room tiles.. big difference. And you get those kinds of decisions with everything you do. Doors could be plastic. Or they good be in a decent wood. You could tile the roof with regular residential roof tiles (as in the below), or go with a cheaper and lighter covering which also requires less/lighter steel in the roof structure). Or not have a proper roof at all, and just do slightly sloped cement with some PVC tubes sticking out to drain water just far enough away from the building, like in the old & crappy days of shophouse design (or non-design. ) And so on; decisions at every turn that impact budget.

Edited July 2, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[onthedarkside]

I do not think it could be built for one million. The spec is double wide and 3 floors. Single wide maybe 1 million, but double wide takes you into 2 million price. That does not include the land or fitting out/painting. Just the basic build, plumbing, and electrics.

[keo]

What's the square meterage on a 3 storey double shophouse? Figures I've seen thrown around on the net are 5K - 15K /sqm, depending on materials you use / standard of finish you want.

It also seems that sourcing the materials yourself can save a significant amount of money.

[tisong]

What's the square meterage on a 3 storey double shophouse? Figures I've seen thrown around on the net are 5K - 15K /sqm, depending on materials you use / standard of finish you want.

It also seems that sourcing the materials yourself can save a significant amount of money.

I'm estimating 250 sqm for a double width, 3 storey unit.

I'd want to build it out a bit beyond the cheapest materials. The goal is to have office space in the ground floor and living above, which is why I'm thinking of shophouse rather than standalone house. Plus I'm assuming that shophouses are ubiquitous, so hoping that makes the materials cheaper/easier to source than if I were to build a standalone... but maybe that's inaccurate.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I guess it's likely to end up around 2 mil, like Onthedarkside said. I would really aim for below 2 million though, also knowing that there tends to be lots of extra costs not in the main budget.

The Thai Public Works department has sample plans available that you can use (and modify as needed). They're relatively fancy in design, like this one:

Of course you'd cut out the middle units so you're left with one double unit. In the below link, designs 15-26 are row buildings; I guess they could be either shophouses or townhouses depending on if you close up the front or not.

http://www.dpt.go.th.../framehome.html

Edited July 2, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I'd want to build it out a bit beyond the cheapest materials. The goal is to have office space in the ground floor and living above, which is why I'm thinking of shophouse rather than standalone house.

I guess 'tisong' is your aptly named second account?

Plus I'm assuming that shophouses are ubiquitous, so hoping that makes the materials cheaper/easier to source than if I were to build a standalone... but maybe that's inaccurate.

I don't think that matters much; the construction materials and techniques are all the same anyway. It's just that in a shophouse people often make them less nice (which is not what you want), omit windows on the sides, no kitchen or bathrooms to speak of, and there may not be separate (bed)rooms on the upper floors. So yes, then it costs less, mostly by virtue of it being utilitarian commercial/storage space.

As soon as you're building something nicer (like in the picture I posted further up) you're spending the same as you do on a regular house design.

The one advantage that I can see is that they maximize the available space, due to essentially being shoebox-shaped, with no wasted space anywhere. So if you only have a small plot then chuck in a 3 story shophouse, which will give you a lot of living space on a small footprint.

I would definitely consider it for an urban dwelling, but then try to do it just slightly different if possible. Of course this depends on the space you have available; as is so often the case, the empty space dictates the options you have in what you build and how you position it.

Below I can give you an example of something that, when you look closely, is the same 4-5 meter wide post & beam concrete structure, but with an entirely different result from a standard shophouse. Note the open spaces on the side to provide some semi-outside living, even in a very urban setting. However what enables this is that the entire side is on open side of the soi (meaning that nobody is going to erect a big apartment block right next to it) and also in the front they have some of their own space. You can't do this if it's a space with buildings on either side (either now, or potentially erected buildings in the future). Note that there are a couple more 4-5 meter units that are more of a traditional closed layout in the same 'block' but you could easily go with just two 'units'.

Edited July 2, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[onthedarkside]

I'm estimating 250 sqm for a double width, 3 storey unit.

I'd want to build it out a bit beyond the cheapest materials. The goal is to have office space in the ground floor and living above, which is why I'm thinking of shophouse rather than standalone house. Plus I'm assuming that shophouses are ubiquitous, so hoping that makes the materials cheaper/easier to source than if I were to build a standalone... but maybe that's inaccurate.

The 'most economical foot print' is 4.5m x 12m, that's 4.5 m wide and 4 m/between posts with 3 posts back. So that's 54 sqm/level/unit = 324 sq mn for a 3 floor double unit. Not sure where your 250 sqm calc comes from. I have managed the building quite a few townhouse type structures and this 4.5m by 4m beam box seems to be the most economical cost. Longer beams need a lot more steel = more cost.

Plus a 3 floor building needs a stronger ground floor to carry the weight of the upper 2 floors, so the standalone house comparison is not valid. If you have plenty of ground area then a one or 2 floor building is cost effective, compared with a 3 floor building. Usually folks build 3 or more floors based on ground cost/availability to make cost effective.

[seesip]

I'm estimating 250 sqm for a double width, 3 storey unit.

I'd want to build it out a bit beyond the cheapest materials. The goal is to have office space in the ground floor and living above, which is why I'm thinking of shophouse rather than standalone house. Plus I'm assuming that shophouses are ubiquitous, so hoping that makes the materials cheaper/easier to source than if I were to build a standalone... but maybe that's inaccurate.

The 'most economical foot print' is 4.5m x 12m, that's 4.5 m wide and 4 m/between posts with 3 posts back. So that's 54 sqm/level/unit = 324 sq mn for a 3 floor double unit. Not sure where your 250 sqm calc comes from. I have managed the building quite a few townhouse type structures and this 4.5m by 4m beam box seems to be the most economical cost. Longer beams need a lot more steel = more cost.

Plus a 3 floor building needs a stronger ground floor to carry the weight of the upper 2 floors, so the standalone house comparison is not valid. If you have plenty of ground area then a one or 2 floor building is cost effective, compared with a 3 floor building. Usually folks build 3 or more floors based on ground cost/availability to make cost effective.

That's great info, thanks. So basically it's more cost effective to keep it 2 levels, unless the land is pricey enough to limit the building area.

[anto]

All the new single shop units around Sai Sai Chiang mai go for around B3m ,so a double unit would go for B6m .I take it the builder spends around B500,000 on a double unit site .You guys are saying the builder can build a double unit for B2m so with the site B.half M that leaves him B3.5M Profit ? or B1.75 M profit per shop .Lovely i want to be a Thai builder .

Edited July 2, 2012 by anto

[onthedarkside]

All the new single shop units around Sai Sai Chiang mai go for around B3m ,so a double unit would go for B6m .I take it the builder spends around B500,000 on a double unit site .You guys are saying the builder can build a double unit for B2m so with the site B.half M that leaves him B3.5M Profit ? or B1.75 M profit per shop .Lovely i want to be a Thai builder .

You have not factored in the land price in your calc. A builder will expect at least a 30% mark up on cost price. A 'first buyer' will expect at least a 50% profit on a 2 year selling wait period. The OP was talking about actual build price, don't confuse the issue.

[anto]

>>You have not factored in the land price in your calc. A builder will expect at least a 30% mark up on cost price. A 'first buyer' will expect at least a 50% profit on a 2 year selling wait period. The OP was talking about actual build price, don't confuse the issue.<<

If you read what i said again i calculated B500,000 per double unit or B250,000 per single unit for land /site price .Shop units take up a small land area .I fail to see what i left out .

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Good luck buying 20-30 sq wa with a front on a major road for 250,000 baht.

[anto]

Good luck buying 20-30 sq wa with a front on a major road for 250,000 baht.

OK double it then to B500,000 as cost of land per single unit ,and they are still making a huge profit .

[PoodMaiDai]

I'd want to build it out a bit beyond the cheapest materials. The goal is to have office space in the ground floor and living above, which is why I'm thinking of shophouse rather than standalone house.

I guess 'tisong' is your aptly named second account?

Plus I'm assuming that shophouses are ubiquitous, so hoping that makes the materials cheaper/easier to source than if I were to build a standalone... but maybe that's inaccurate.

I don't think that matters much; the construction materials and techniques are all the same anyway. It's just that in a shophouse people often make them less nice (which is not what you want), omit windows on the sides, no kitchen or bathrooms to speak of, and there may not be separate (bed)rooms on the upper floors. So yes, then it costs less, mostly by virtue of it being utilitarian commercial/storage space.

As soon as you're building something nicer (like in the picture I posted further up) you're spending the same as you do on a regular house design.

The one advantage that I can see is that they maximize the available space, due to essentially being shoebox-shaped, with no wasted space anywhere. So if you only have a small plot then chuck in a 3 story shophouse, which will give you a lot of living space on a small footprint.

I would definitely consider it for an urban dwelling, but then try to do it just slightly different if possible. Of course this depends on the space you have available; as is so often the case, the empty space dictates the options you have in what you build and how you position it.

Below I can give you an example of something that, when you look closely, is the same 4-5 meter wide post & beam concrete structure, but with an entirely different result from a standard shophouse. Note the open spaces on the side to provide some semi-outside living, even in a very urban setting. However what enables this is that the entire side is on open side of the soi (meaning that nobody is going to erect a big apartment block right next to it) and also in the front they have some of their own space. You can't do this if it's a space with buildings on either side (either now, or potentially erected buildings in the future). Note that there are a couple more 4-5 meter units that are more of a traditional closed layout in the same 'block' but you could easily go with just two 'units'.

That is an amazing use of a shophouse.

How much do you think something like that would cost, ballpark? That would be a perfect urban pad.

[PoodMaiDai]

I'm estimating 250 sqm for a double width, 3 storey unit.

I'd want to build it out a bit beyond the cheapest materials. The goal is to have office space in the ground floor and living above, which is why I'm thinking of shophouse rather than standalone house. Plus I'm assuming that shophouses are ubiquitous, so hoping that makes the materials cheaper/easier to source than if I were to build a standalone... but maybe that's inaccurate.

The 'most economical foot print' is 4.5m x 12m, that's 4.5 m wide and 4 m/between posts with 3 posts back. So that's 54 sqm/level/unit = 324 sq mn for a 3 floor double unit. Not sure where your 250 sqm calc comes from. I have managed the building quite a few townhouse type structures and this 4.5m by 4m beam box seems to be the most economical cost. Longer beams need a lot more steel = more cost.

Plus a 3 floor building needs a stronger ground floor to carry the weight of the upper 2 floors, so the standalone house comparison is not valid. If you have plenty of ground area then a one or 2 floor building is cost effective, compared with a 3 floor building. Usually folks build 3 or more floors based on ground cost/availability to make cost effective.

Since you have experience with this, could you tell me if there has to be a notable amount of extra support if you are going to have a useable roof vs the standard iron and tiled roof? By useable roof I mean a concrete floor where you can use as outdoor living space, then erect a tiled roof on top of that, as if it was a sala. Does that count as another level?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

That is an amazing use of a shophouse.

How much do you think something like that would cost, ballpark? That would be a perfect urban pad.

Very hard to say.. As you can see in the gallery link that I PM'd, a lot of the materials are cheap. Still it's going to be more than just bricking in between the concrete posts and beams and then rendering it in cement. I know what they spent in total, but that's for a hotel type setup with lots of bedrooms and lots of bathrooms. If you take a double 4.5m x 4m shophouse style frame as Onthedarkside mentioned and then do arty-farty stuff on the side of one of it involving a lot of wooden paneling/windowing and some ironwork then you're paying more, but how much more will depend completely on what exactly you're putting in and how cheap you can source it. A way to start could be to buy an old wooden house out of town which will give you a lot of wood to work with. You can buy those (just for the wood) for about 100-200K. Depending on whatever else you find in materials you can then do all kinds of cool things that you wouldn't have in a standard shophouse. Very, very hard to put a price on that.

To be honest I think it's best to forget about starting out with a 'standard' design, because in Thailand you don't really save any cost doing that as it's all erected by hand anyway; it's not like even bog standard shophouses just come out of a mold. So if, for example, you find that your place is on a congested soi then you may choose to NOT have a typical high-ish shophouse ground floor, but instead put in something very low, but high enough to park your car in the first half-level of the 4.5m wide unit. Then you can have stairs going up above that and have your main living room space just above that. There really is no limit as long as you stay within the standard-spaced concrete (or wood) post & beam structure. Only when you depart that building method will you end up with more headaches. (Some people do though; standard spacing does mean that no room or space in your home is wider than 4.5m (or maybe 5m), or you'll end up with a visible post somewhere. (Which may not be the end of the world; and you can do L-shapes of course, to make it look spacious.) )

Edited July 3, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[seesip]

That is an amazing use of a shophouse.

How much do you think something like that would cost, ballpark? That would be a perfect urban pad.

Very hard to say.. As you can see in the gallery link that I PM'd, a lot of the materials are cheap. Still it's going to be more than just bricking in between the concrete posts and beams and then rendering it in cement. I know what they spent in total, but that's for a hotel type setup with lots of bedrooms and lots of bathrooms. If you take a double 4.5m x 4m shophouse style frame as Onthedarkside mentioned and then do arty-farty stuff on the side of one of it involving a lot of wooden paneling/windowing and some ironwork then you're paying more, but how much more will depend completely on what exactly you're putting in and how cheap you can source it. A way to start could be to buy an old wooden house out of town which will give you a lot of wood to work with. You can buy those (just for the wood) for about 100-200K. Depending on whatever else you find in materials you can then do all kinds of cool things that you wouldn't have in a standard shophouse. Very, very hard to put a price on that.

To be honest I think it's best to forget about starting out with a 'standard' design, because in Thailand you don't really save any cost doing that as it's all erected by hand anyway; it's not like even bog standard shophouses just come out of a mold. So if, for example, you find that your place is on a congested soi then you may choose to NOT have a typical high-ish shophouse ground floor, but instead put in something very low, but high enough to park your car in the first half-level of the 4.5m wide unit. Then you can have stairs going up above that and have your main living room space just above that. There really is no limit as long as you stay within the standard-spaced concrete (or wood) post & beam structure. Only when you depart that building method will you end up with more headaches. (Some people do though; standard spacing does mean that no room or space in your home is wider than 4.5m (or maybe 5m), or you'll end up with a visible post somewhere. (Which may not be the end of the world; and you can do L-shapes of course, to make it look spacious.) )

Excellent info, thanks. Where is the photo of the wood/brick shophouse taken? It looks like the name says Pood?

[seesip]

That is an amazing use of a shophouse.

How much do you think something like that would cost, ballpark? That would be a perfect urban pad.

Very hard to say.. As you can see in the gallery link that I PM'd, a lot of the materials are cheap. Still it's going to be more than just bricking in between the concrete posts and beams and then rendering it in cement. I know what they spent in total, but that's for a hotel type setup with lots of bedrooms and lots of bathrooms. If you take a double 4.5m x 4m shophouse style frame as Onthedarkside mentioned and then do arty-farty stuff on the side of one of it involving a lot of wooden paneling/windowing and some ironwork then you're paying more, but how much more will depend completely on what exactly you're putting in and how cheap you can source it. A way to start could be to buy an old wooden house out of town which will give you a lot of wood to work with. You can buy those (just for the wood) for about 100-200K. Depending on whatever else you find in materials you can then do all kinds of cool things that you wouldn't have in a standard shophouse. Very, very hard to put a price on that.

To be honest I think it's best to forget about starting out with a 'standard' design, because in Thailand you don't really save any cost doing that as it's all erected by hand anyway; it's not like even bog standard shophouses just come out of a mold. So if, for example, you find that your place is on a congested soi then you may choose to NOT have a typical high-ish shophouse ground floor, but instead put in something very low, but high enough to park your car in the first half-level of the 4.5m wide unit. Then you can have stairs going up above that and have your main living room space just above that. There really is no limit as long as you stay within the standard-spaced concrete (or wood) post & beam structure. Only when you depart that building method will you end up with more headaches. (Some people do though; standard spacing does mean that no room or space in your home is wider than 4.5m (or maybe 5m), or you'll end up with a visible post somewhere. (Which may not be the end of the world; and you can do L-shapes of course, to make it look spacious.) )

Excellent info, thanks. Where is the photo of the wood/brick shophouse taken? It looks like the name says Pood?

Nevermind found it. But would you happen to know the architect/builder?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Name says Gord. Gallery is here, showing some more pics: http://gordchiangmai.com/#Gallery

I don't know the builder, I think they did quite a bit of the design themselves. I can ask of course, next time I'm in the area.

Edited July 3, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[xen]

We stayed at this hotel a few months back . Very stylish . The biggest bathroom i have seen in a hotel room but also had a couple of annoying design faults inside the rooms .More style over function i am afraid .