The Official Phonetic Transcription System Is "Unfriendly" And Unhelpful To Foriengers

[bytebuster]

Another one with pre-defined language-specific subsets

Excellent, Bytebuster. I notice, however, that the "typein.org" contains only European languages. Are there plans to include languages like Thai? Thanks.

IPA full contains complete set of characters. Expand top toolbar to get tonal marks. Of course it would be great if someone suggested them a subset for Thai. I don't use it because I have my service that transcribes for me!

Transcription systems are useful.

They can serve a guide but they can also be a false friend.

Look up the "Pinyin" transcription system for Chinese that is widely adopted in China

This is not correct.

风 [fēng], actually read like [fōng]

吹 [chuī], actually reads like [chuɛī]

Examples are countless, keeping in mind there are various local dialects.

[PaullyW]

There is something called "fuzzy pinyin" which accounts for variations of Chinese pronunciation.

[bytebuster]

There is something called "fuzzy pinyin" which accounts for variations of Chinese pronunciation.

Is it also "widely adopted in China and used MOSTLY BY CHINESE, believe it or not"?

[Richard W]

If not, how do the proponents of IPA as a written communications medium proposed to render Thai-IPA on a computer?

For plain ASCII in lieu of proper IPA, see http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/sampa/thai.htm .

[PaullyW]

There is something called "fuzzy pinyin" which accounts for variations of Chinese pronunciation.

Is it also "widely adopted in China and used MOSTLY BY CHINESE, believe it or not"?

[DavidHouston]

If not, how do the proponents of IPA as a written communications medium proposed to render Thai-IPA on a computer?

For plain ASCII in lieu of proper IPA, see http://www.phon.ucl..../sampa/thai.htm .

Richard,

How does this work? How do I type Thai IPA symbols on my English keyboard using this method? Thanks.

[bytebuster]

How does this work? How do I type Thai IPA symbols on my English keyboard using this method?

The main intent of SAMPA was easiness of typing and passing around the computers, so it's based on 7-bit ASCII that exists on any keyboard.

Wikipedia has a nice table of X-SAMPA, a descendant system.

Typing easiness is done at cost of hardness to learn. It can't fit in my mind to remember, e.g., "father" ["fA:D@(r\)].

Today, when IPA symbols exist in Unicode, SAMPA still has an important use: as input system to TeX and LaTeX. See TIPA.

[Johpa]

Not to mention transcribing DTaw DTow and BPaw BPlaa, which is obviously more tricky since we don't have those sounds in English. But why did we have to use up the T and P letters for them instead of letting T and P represent T and P sounds?

We do have those sounds in English. It's the T in 'star' and the P in 'spa', which are unaspirated, without the breath. So in fact we do use those letters to represent those sounds in English. We also use them to represent the aspirated T and P as we consider these as a single sound in English. Whereas they are two separate and meaningful sounds in Thai with TH and PH representing the added breath of those sounds. Which is why you can see road signs with Phatthaya.

As Sticky notes, the problem lies as much in the limits of the alphabet used for that bastardized language known as English, the same Latin alphabet used haplessly for countless other Germanic languages. In English we have some forty odd consonants and some twenty plus vowels and yet we are contrained to use the Latin alphabet which has a far smallet set of symbols. So look into the mirror and don't go blame some former Thai King ( and risk lese majeste) or some hapless long dead linguist for the limitations of any one system for transliterating Thai by using this here alphabet you see in front of you at this moment. Go learn to read Thai, which uses a borrowed alphabet that is far more phonetically correct for itself than is English and its borrowed alphabet.. Whenever I see this long standing gripe by ex-pats I just think to myself, Phuket, more ex-pats too lazy to learn to read Thai.

[tawonsri]

The idea of being EXACT surpasses many of the posters here also - not only a "Thai Mentality".

For instance a question to the original poster what EXACTLY it a "Forienger"?

If you want to be able to pronounce a Thai word correctly - perhaps you should take the efford to learn Thai-script rather than complain about poor phonetic transcriptions often produced by "FORIEGNERS"

Parvis,

No, you are incorrect. For many foreigners, learning Thai is a task they have no time for. For instance, expats working here in busy multinational firms that tax their time have no time/energy to learn the VERY difficult Thai script.

Transcription systems are useful. Look up the "Pinyin" transcription system for Chinese that is widely adopted in China and used MOSTLY BY CHINESE, believe it or not. For instance, Thais could use a phonetic transcription system for mobile device input rather than having the mental overhead of dozens of spellings (irregular spellings, of which there are MANY) for words.

It's not just foreigners who benefit.

PaullyW, great point - Thanks.

Completely agree with that point - not only foreigners would profit from a consistent system. It would be very usefull for Thais too .... for instance, just by avoiding such hilarious situations as my parents encountered when I invited them to visit me in Europe:

When they went to the passport office, their common familyname was transliterated completely different - completely different

writing in english - no chance to see that they are from same family.

Same situation when I invited my sisters: Each one has a different (english) writing for the very same thai family name.

Such a system is quite useless as long as it doesn't provide a CONSISTENT transliteration quality independent of the officer working on the document - actually each officer seems to do it the was he likes.

Edited July 8, 2012 by tawonsri