Thai Court Defers Key Ruling On PM Party

[webfact]

Thai court defers key ruling on PM party

BANGKOK, July 7, 2012 (AFP) - Thailand's Constitutional Court on Friday deferred ruling for a week on an incendiary charter amendment case that could lead to the dissolution of the ruling party.

The court heard evidence in a case centering on claims that plans by Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra's party to amend the constitution are a threat to the deeply-revered monarchy.

The complaint, brought by the opposition Democrats, has the potential to tear open the kingdom's bitter political rifts.

They also accuse Yingluck's Puea Thai party of seeking to redraw the country's charter to enable the return of her divisive brother Thaksin, who was ousted from power in a coup by royalist generals in 2006.

After two days of hearings Wasan Soypisudh, president of the Constitutional Court said it will deliver its ruling next week.

"The hearing today has finished," he said. "The court allows both sides to submit its closing statements in writing on Wednesday and the court will rule on Friday 13 (July)."

Puea Thai officials deny designs to undermine the monarchy.

"There is no action or intention to do anything as it (is) claimed in the complaint," Noppadon Pattama, Thaksin's legal advisor and a member of Yingluck's Puea Thai party told reporters on Thursday.

If court judges find that the amendment plans threaten the monarchy, it could lead to the dissolution of the party -- although would not necessitate Yingluck's departure -- risking a potential fresh wave of unrest in the volatile nation.

Political tensions in Thailand have spiralled since huge anti-Thaksin rallies helped topple the tycoon, who draws support from rural and working class "Red Shirts" but is reviled by the Bangkok-based elite and military.

Two pro-Thaksin premiers were forced from office in 2008 in judicial rulings, making way for the Democrats -- who have not won an election in 20 years -- to take power in a parliamentary vote.

Puea Thai swept to power last year on a wave of Thaksin support following deadly 2010 Red Shirt street protests.

Amending the constitution, which was drawn up under the post-coup junta in 2007, was a key plank of the party's election campaign.

Any suggestion of a return for Thaksin, who now lives in self-imposed exile to avoid a jail term for corruption, is hugely controversial in the deeply divided nation.

Democrats have stymied previous legislative attempts to engineer his return, while the monarchist Yellow Shirts took to the streets.

Last month Yingluck's party was forced to postpone a parliamentary vote on controversial "reconciliation" proposals strongly opposed by opposition MPs and the Yellow Shirts, who fear they will be used to grant an amnesty to Thaksin.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2012-07-07

[phl]

I am scared to even think what would be should the ruling LEAD to dissolve the PT

[MaiChai]

The irony: the reconciliation bills widen the divide! Thus what is the point on following through if they don't achieve reconciliation?

Question that crosses my mind: what is the proper procedure for the Constitutional Court to follow since a situation like this has never risen before? Are the only outcomes to allow PT to go ahead with the bills or dissolve PT? Dissolving PT sounds too extreme and sends the wrong message?

[phl]

The irony: the reconciliation bills widen the divide! Thus what is the point on following through if they don't achieve reconciliation?

Question that crosses my mind: what is the proper procedure for the Constitutional Court to follow since a situation like this has never risen before? Are the only outcomes to allow PT to go ahead with the bills or dissolve PT? Dissolving PT sounds too extreme and sends the wrong message?

Spot on, it does send the wrong message if dissolved, however also send an equally wrong message if it is not.

It is basically a no win situation and back to square one, though i do believe taking Thaksin out of equation would help make things smoother

[GentlemanJim]

The irony: the reconciliation bills widen the divide! Thus what is the point on following through if they don't achieve reconciliation?

Question that crosses my mind: what is the proper procedure for the Constitutional Court to follow since a situation like this has never risen before? Are the only outcomes to allow PT to go ahead with the bills or dissolve PT? Dissolving PT sounds too extreme and sends the wrong message?

Spot on, it does send the wrong message if dissolved, however also send an equally wrong message if it is not.

It is basically a no win situation and back to square one, though i do believe taking Thaksin out of equation would help make things smoother

And that is the nail hit firmly on the head. Thaksin is an anchor chain around the necks of the Thai people. Without his meddling and interfering the country would move forward. There would be no childish distractions for the Government, who could start considering how to work for the people and the country, freed from the chains of bondage that Thaksin holds them in. The man has had his time, he tried and it didn't work, time for him to stop menacing the country and its people and move on to a very comfortable retirement on a luxury island of his choosing. Of all the really wealthy people in the world he is the most like a James Bond villain that I know. I bet he has a gold 9mm gun, and a fish tank in his villa in Dubai with sharks or piranhas in, not sure about the white cat though

Edited July 7, 2012 by GentlemanJim

[animatic]

The irony: the reconciliation bills widen the divide! Thus what is the point on following through if they don't achieve reconciliation?

Question that crosses my mind: what is the proper procedure for the Constitutional Court to follow since a situation like this has never risen before? Are the only outcomes to allow PT to go ahead with the bills or dissolve PT? Dissolving PT sounds too extreme and sends the wrong message?

Spot on, it does send the wrong message if dissolved, however also send an equally wrong message if it is not.

It is basically a no win situation and back to square one, though i do believe taking Thaksin out of equation would help make things smoother

Sadly 'chance' taking Thaksin out of the equation by 'Natural Means', 'Act of God' etc,

is the only game changer that will actually reset things.

"So punk, do you feel lucky?" what likely holds back more agressive action is simply expected international public opinion after the fact. I have no doubts some factions are being 'held back' actively.

Without his megalomanic and obsessive drive and cash, this would never be an issue for the country. There is no other central unifying figure on that side that could replace him, even if his clan were to still retain the financial resources. Remove Thaksin and it becomes a blind bull flailing about.

I think,

not dissolving PTP till it has acted 'specifically to delimit royal power a notch'

may be the course they must take. Unless they find this has already occurred.

This lets PTP know the eyes are squarely on them; don't even think of sneaking one past, because the courts WILL act again, and this may be enough to hold PTP in check.

This move might have been too early,

or it may intentionally be a preemptive and unambiguous warning to PTP.

Edited July 7, 2012 by animatic

[h90]

I am scared to even think what would be should the ruling LEAD to dissolve the PT

I can't even imagine what happen.

paid red thugs

yellows

military

Thaksin

floods

complete unpredictable....military government looks now like a good solution compare with the rest

[phl]

The irony: the reconciliation bills widen the divide! Thus what is the point on following through if they don't achieve reconciliation?

Question that crosses my mind: what is the proper procedure for the Constitutional Court to follow since a situation like this has never risen before? Are the only outcomes to allow PT to go ahead with the bills or dissolve PT? Dissolving PT sounds too extreme and sends the wrong message?

Spot on, it does send the wrong message if dissolved, however also send an equally wrong message if it is not.

It is basically a no win situation and back to square one, though i do believe taking Thaksin out of equation would help make things smoother

Sadly 'chance' taking Thaksin out of the equation by 'Natural Means', 'Act fo God' etc,

is the only game changer that will actually reset things.

"So punk, do you feel lucky?" what holds back more agressive action is simply expected international public opinion after the fact. I have no doubts some factions are being 'held back' actively.

Without his megalomanic and obsessive drive and cash, this would never be an issue for the country. There is no other central unifying figure on that side that could replace him, even if his clan were to still retain the financial resources. Remove Thaksin and it becomes a blind bull flailing about.

I think,

not dissolving PTP till it has acted 'specifically to delimit royal power a notch'

may be the course they must take. Unless they find this has already occurred.

This lets PTP know the eyes are squarely on them; don't even think of sneaking one past, because the courts WILL act again, and this may be enough to hold PTP in check.

This move might have been too early,

or it may intentionally be a preemptive and unambiguous warning to PTP.

Totally agree with you also, if it was in a normal functioning society

I am afraid PTP will not see the signs of warning but rather the sign of weakness and try again to see how much more further they can push.

I mean it was them who even dared and tried to discredit the judicial system itself

[Thai at Heart]

Merely making a proposal that may be judged to want to possibly achieve something is enough grounds to "dissolve" a party.

Strewth, just imagine if they actually did something what might happen.

[GentlemanJim]

Well, re-writing a famous old Roman saying, it seems that in Thailand, all roads will lead to bloodshed and civil war.

[phl]

Well, re-writing a famous old Roman saying, it seems that in Thailand, all roads will lead to bloodshed and civil war.

I think history is a good example of what to come. which i am trying to say is that most countries did go through some kind of civil war or commotion, Thailand is the one of few countries that i am aware off, that did not really go through that, so perhaps thats the only way to get back on track.

Not saying its a must, but others had to over come it to move on,

[h90]

Well, re-writing a famous old Roman saying, it seems that in Thailand, all roads will lead to bloodshed and civil war.

Don't think so.....Maybe some minor problems like reds make problems like before. But no civil war. Who should make war against who?

[phl]

Well, re-writing a famous old Roman saying, it seems that in Thailand, all roads will lead to bloodshed and civil war.

Don't think so.....Maybe some minor problems like reds make problems like before. But no civil war. Who should make war against who?

If PTP is dissolved, reds will take to the streets and most likely get violent. Army will step in and the fighting will continue.

Something like Syria( i know its crazy to compare, but it is a possibility)

[h90]

Well, re-writing a famous old Roman saying, it seems that in Thailand, all roads will lead to bloodshed and civil war.

I think history is a good example of what to come. which i am trying to say is that most countries did go through some kind of civil war or commotion, Thailand is the one of few countries that i am aware off, that did not really go through that, so perhaps thats the only way to get back on track.

Not saying its a must, but others had to over come it to move on,

Well, 98 % of the population does not really care if Thaksin, Abhisit or a military Dictator is leading the country. The remaining 1+1 % Communists against Monarchists can make a lot problems but hardly a civil war. Burning some buildings and some speeches ala Da Torpedo and the public opinion will be "get rid of these weirdos causing the traffic jam".

no traffic jam and cold beer leo is far higher priority than pro or contra Thaksin.

[h90]

Well, re-writing a famous old Roman saying, it seems that in Thailand, all roads will lead to bloodshed and civil war.

Don't think so.....Maybe some minor problems like reds make problems like before. But no civil war. Who should make war against who?

If PTP is dissolved, reds will take to the streets and most likely get violent. Army will step in and the fighting will continue.

Something like Syria( i know its crazy to compare, but it is a possibility)

The last time the reds had 2-3.000 hardcore. All the 500 Baht/day rent a mob went home when it got serious.

If checking on the money, so there won't be a "rent-a-mob" than the few one can be handled easily before they make barricades.

Syria has the Muslim fanatics that won't get rid of the left-liberal dictator, Financed, trained and equipped by Saudi Arabia and USA.

Here we have no religious conflict.

We have the financial issue, which might be controlled or not

I doubt Thaksin can deliver weapons and training easily and I doubt the reds are ready to kill and die.

[Buchholz]

First there was describing his sister as a clone.

More recently we had his chief adviser become the clone's chief adviser.

Chief Thaksin Advisor Now Yingluck's Guru

Now, we have his personal lawyer becoming the clone's party spokesman.

Puea Thai officials deny designs to undermine the monarchy.

"There is no action or intention to do anything as it (is) claimed in the complaint," Noppadon Pattama, Thaksin's legal advisor and a member of Yingluck's Puea Thai party told reporters on Thursday.

It's no wonder the clone is incapable of responding directly to what is plainly in front of everyone else's eyes

Yingluck Evades The Issue Of Being Under Thaksin's Shadow

Edited July 7, 2012 by metisdead
: Font reset.

[GentlemanJim]

Well, re-writing a famous old Roman saying, it seems that in Thailand, all roads will lead to bloodshed and civil war.

I think history is a good example of what to come. which i am trying to say is that most countries did go through some kind of civil war or commotion, Thailand is the one of few countries that i am aware off, that did not really go through that, so perhaps thats the only way to get back on track.

Not saying its a must, but others had to over come it to move on,

Well, 98 % of the population does not really care if Thaksin, Abhisit or a military Dictator is leading the country. The remaining 1+1 % Communists against Monarchists can make a lot problems but hardly a civil war. Burning some buildings and some speeches ala Da Torpedo and the public opinion will be "get rid of these weirdos causing the traffic jam".

no traffic jam and cold beer leo is far higher priority than pro or contra Thaksin.

Now come on, you have picked 98% right out of the air. In the large town where I live, EVERYBODY (adults), has a strong opinion on who they want and who they do not want to lead the country. In most other aspects of daily Thai life, I see the people around me seem to reflect the ideas and feelings of Thais in general, so I doubt their political aspirations are just as representative of Thai adults across the country.

[phl]

Well, re-writing a famous old Roman saying, it seems that in Thailand, all roads will lead to bloodshed and civil war.

Don't think so.....Maybe some minor problems like reds make problems like before. But no civil war. Who should make war against who?

If PTP is dissolved, reds will take to the streets and most likely get violent. Army will step in and the fighting will continue.

Something like Syria( i know its crazy to compare, but it is a possibility)

The last time the reds had 2-3.000 hardcore. All the 500 Baht/day rent a mob went home when it got serious.

If checking on the money, so there won't be a "rent-a-mob" than the few one can be handled easily before they make barricades.

Syria has the Muslim fanatics that won't get rid of the left-liberal dictator, Financed, trained and equipped by Saudi Arabia and USA.

Here we have no religious conflict.

We have the financial issue, which might be controlled

I doubt Thaksin can deliver weapons and training easily and I doubt the reds are ready to kill and die.

and i did say crazy to compare, but is possible, may not be on the same scale, but with its own variations.

Right now when the red mob gets together, i do not think they are paid, and there are enough fanatics happy to cause some damage.

Do keep in mind that those do not really think of the consequences but only for today

[bigbamboo]

I am scared to even think what would be should the ruling LEAD to dissolve the PT

I know what you mean... another bloody set of initials to remember.

TRT, PPP, PTP... what's next in the sequence do you reckon?

[Buchholz]

Well, re-writing a famous old Roman saying, it seems that in Thailand, all roads will lead to bloodshed and civil war.

Don't think so.....Maybe some minor problems like reds make problems like before. But no civil war. Who should make war against who?

If PTP is dissolved, reds will take to the streets and most likely get violent.

The Red Shirts are massing up no matter what happens...

.

I see that Red Shirt Leader Thida is threatening a massive Red Shirt rally if the judges don't resign, no matter what their decision is.

She announced today that 300,000 to 400,000 Red Shirts would march on Bangkok if they don't quit their positions.

[Yunla]

If PTP and Yingluck had come into power a year ago, and worked with DP in Parliament on consensus-bills to improve Thai infrastructure, help the rural poor and beat corruption, all of which the DP want to work with them on, then none of these street-protests, threats of coups, intimidation of innocent people etc. would have happened, and thousands of hours of parliamentary time would not have been wasted. All these negative things came directly from PTP's poor decisions.

If PTP had not made these LM / Freedom for Thaksin bills their centrepiece policy and tried to force it through ahead of any meaningful parliamentary work for improving Thailand, then this whole situation would not have happened.

PTP chose to bring about all this division and conflict, they could just as easily have left Thaksin in Dubai in every sense, keeping him and his crimes off the parliamentary agenda entirely, and if they had done that and worked with the other parties in parliament in an atmosphere of respect and consensus-forming, Thailand would be moving forwards peacefully now without all this chaos and division.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Yunla

[hellodolly]

The irony: the reconciliation bills widen the divide! Thus what is the point on following through if they don't achieve reconciliation?

Question that crosses my mind: what is the proper procedure for the Constitutional Court to follow since a situation like this has never risen before? Are the only outcomes to allow PT to go ahead with the bills or dissolve PT? Dissolving PT sounds too extreme and sends the wrong message?

Spot on, it does send the wrong message if dissolved, however also send an equally wrong message if it is not.

It is basically a no win situation and back to square one, though i do believe taking Thaksin out of equation would help make things smoother

Taking Thaksin out of the equation is not a alternative. He is there and wields to much power to be removed. Even if they were to take him out of it who would believe them? Maybe the red shirts and we know what there answer would be. For those of you who are new to Thailand they believe in democracy through violence.

There is only one way to get Thaksin out of the equation and that is death. With his money he probably has the best health money can buy.So he will be around for a while yet. That is as long as he stays out of Thailand. I think he has created some enemies here who would cheerfully help him along to his final days and he knows it.

[phl]

I am scared to even think what would be should the ruling LEAD to dissolve the PT

I know what you mean... another bloody set of initials to remember.

TRT, PPP, PTP... what's next in the sequence do you reckon?

I think they should go with FTS

<Snip> The System Party

Edited July 7, 2012 by metisdead
: Profanity removed.

[takatukaland]

I am scared to even think what would be should the ruling LEAD to dissolve the PT

Great dissolve PTP,put another unwanted army friendly and untouchable friendly government in charge,watch 2 yrs civil war,and hv another thaksin friendly government,looks like endless circle,it's time army,untouchables,bkk elite,step back,and listen to the voters,if not nothing will ever change

[hellodolly]

Well, re-writing a famous old Roman saying, it seems that in Thailand, all roads will lead to bloodshed and civil war.

Don't think so.....Maybe some minor problems like reds make problems like before. But no civil war. Who should make war against who?

If PTP is dissolved, reds will take to the streets and most likely get violent. Army will step in and the fighting will continue.

Something like Syria( i know its crazy to compare, but it is a possibility)

I don't agree here the red shirts are big in name only . The violent ones are reativley few. Just enough to cause trouble like in 2010 and I believe with out Thaksins money that would not happen again. There would be the rattling of arms and noisy protests but with out Thaksins money no leaders.

[hellodolly]

I am scared to even think what would be should the ruling LEAD to dissolve the PT

Great dissolve PTP,put another unwanted army friendly and untouchable friendly government in charge,watch 2 yrs civil war,and hv another thaksin friendly government,looks like endless circle,it's time army,untouchables,bkk elite,step back,and listen to the voters,if not nothing will ever change

The majority of the voters voted against Thaksin. Yet here we have a government that ignores the people and tries to advance it's own agenda rater than work for a better Thailand.

[kerryk]

I am scared to even think what would be should the ruling LEAD to dissolve the PT

Great dissolve PTP,put another unwanted army friendly and untouchable friendly government in charge,watch 2 yrs civil war,and hv another thaksin friendly government,looks like endless circle,it's time army,untouchables,bkk elite,step back,and listen to the voters,if not nothing will ever change

The majority of the voters voted against Thaksin. Yet here we have a government that ignores the people and tries to advance it's own agenda rater than work for a better Thailand.

More voters voted for the current ruling party than any other party. So there! Oh and it has been 20 years since the democrats won an election. So there #2.

Edited July 7, 2012 by kerryk

[tlansford]

The irony: the reconciliation bills widen the divide! Thus what is the point on following through if they don't achieve reconciliation?

Question that crosses my mind: what is the proper procedure for the Constitutional Court to follow since a situation like this has never risen before? Are the only outcomes to allow PT to go ahead with the bills or dissolve PT? Dissolving PT sounds too extreme and sends the wrong message?

Spot on, it does send the wrong message if dissolved, however also send an equally wrong message if it is not.

It is basically a no win situation and back to square one, though i do believe taking Thaksin out of equation would help make things smoother

Sadly 'chance' taking Thaksin out of the equation by 'Natural Means', 'Act fo God' etc,

is the only game changer that will actually reset things.

"So punk, do you feel lucky?" what holds back more agressive action is simply expected international public opinion after the fact. I have no doubts some factions are being 'held back' actively.

Without his megalomanic and obsessive drive and cash, this would never be an issue for the country. There is no other central unifying figure on that side that could replace him, even if his clan were to still retain the financial resources. Remove Thaksin and it becomes a blind bull flailing about.

I think,

not dissolving PTP till it has acted 'specifically to delimit royal power a notch'

may be the course they must take. Unless they find this has already occurred.

This lets PTP know the eyes are squarely on them; don't even think of sneaking one past, because the courts WILL act again, and this may be enough to hold PTP in check.

This move might have been too early,

or it may intentionally be a preemptive and unambiguous warning to PTP.

Totally agree with you also, if it was in a normal functioning society

I am afraid PTP will not see the signs of warning but rather the sign of weakness and try again to see how much more further they can push.

I mean it was them who even dared and tried to discredit the judicial system itself

it is a normal functioning society.

It's the politics and the power-brokers who are dysfunctional.

The judicial system is currently part of the problem, in that it is a player in the politics and power-brokering, not part of the answer.

[Moruya]

I am scared to even think what would be should the ruling LEAD to dissolve the PT

I know what you mean... another bloody set of initials to remember.

TRT, PPP, PTP... what's next in the sequence do you reckon?

Work so Thailand Functions - &lt;deleted&gt;

Edited July 7, 2012 by Moruya

[tlansford]

I am scared to even think what would be should the ruling LEAD to dissolve the PT

Great dissolve PTP,put another unwanted army friendly and untouchable friendly government in charge,watch 2 yrs civil war,and hv another thaksin friendly government,looks like endless circle,it's time army,untouchables,bkk elite,step back,and listen to the voters,if not nothing will ever change

The majority of the voters voted against Thaksin. Yet here we have a government that ignores the people and tries to advance it's own agenda rater than work for a better Thailand.

More voters voted for the current ruling party than any other party. So there! Oh and it has been 20 years since the democrats won an election. So there #2.

and that last time in which they won, they had to form a 5-party coalition because their % of seats was in the low-20s, so there #3.

which is around the same % the PTP margin of victory over the democrats in the 2011 elections, so there #4

oh, and the Democrats were anti-military the last time they "won" an election, so there #5

I like this game...