Acceptable Or Not?

[DowntownAl]

It is always an oddity in a funny sort of way to me how the anti PC brigade hits the air/forums whenever a term or word that may be derogatory or insulting pops up in discussion. The chest pounding bravado of never using evil PC language, or how PC has suddenly and unexpectedly run amok is worn like a badge of some sort. IE: why is someone offended by someone else not wanting to offend someone, if you get my drift...

PC: “is a term which denotes language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social and institutional offense in occupational, gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, certain other religions, beliefs or ideologies, disability, and age-related contexts, and, as purported by the term, doing so to an excessive extent.

That may be a mildly annoying state of affairs sometimes but, hardly evil or offensive. You people drive me nuts sometimes.

Edited July 9, 2012 by DowntownAl

[GreenSnapper]

You people must be really bored.

Why aren't you happy to live in free Asia, without the fears to be sued or lose your job because the PC police don't like your words or opinion?

[skybluestu]

I heard it in a great speech in the European parliament (will try and find it) when it was used appropriately, it depends in what context it is being used as to whether it is racist or not.

Here it is.

[ripstanley]

I do not find it offensive. I am from Australia.

[brit1984]

I do not find it offensive. I am from Australia.

You people are so wonderful.

Edited July 9, 2012 by brit1984

[chiang mai]

You people must be really bored.

Why aren't you happy to live in free Asia, without the fears to be sued or lose your job because the PC police don't like your words or opinion?

This is not about those things, as already stated several times this is about trying to guage what is and what is not socially acceptable.

[GuestHouse]

Odd then how so many get upset when generalised remarks are made about all Farangs, all Thai women, all Thai bar workers, all Thai women from Isaan, all Thai women married to Farangs, all old Farangs fathering kids with young Thai women or all Farangs living here on low incomes.

The term "You People" seems only to be offensive when directed against people who regard themselves as individuals deserving of their own dignity. At all othertimes to object to or even question its use is to be labelled a PC fanatic.

Edited July 9, 2012 by GuestHouse

[ripstanley]

I do not find it offensive. I am from Australia.

You people are so wonderful.

Thankyou

[chiang mai]

Odd then how so many get upset when generalised remarks are made about all Farangs, all Thai women, all Thai bar workers, all Thai women from Isaan, all Thai women married to Farangs, all old Farangs fathering kids with young Thai women or all Farangs living here on low incomes.

The term "You People" seems only to be offensive when directed against people who regard themselves as individuals deserving of their own dignity. At all othertimes to object to or even question its use is to be labelled a PC fanatic.

A fair point, apart from the potential for it being a racial slur there's also the issue of it being a generalisation too far, I am not a number and all that.

[1BADDAT]

I think the main issue with using the phrase is that it is almost never used with context that suggests anything positive. By saying "you people", the speaker is implying that they have no affiliation with the group they are addressing and usually the rest of sentence involves some disapproval of said group.

As with most things that can be perceived as racist, it is best to avoid using phrases around audiences in which you are unsure of how they will take them. I don't think the phrase itself is racist and would not offend me if I was one of "those people" but I am a white male from the US, so it is pretty hard for me to take offense to something.

[kblaze]

its very simple; if you are addressing a group of racially-homogenous people and you say "you people" then yeah its not very nice (but I still don't think its racist).

Thus, on TV, unless the race of a group is the target of the phrase then it is harmless. But that hardly ever comes up. Nationality is different. If a brit said to americans "you people are always causing trouble around the world" then one would focus on the "causing trouble" not the "you people" part.

You use the example of detroit in the 60/70s. that was a whole diff ballgame.

Are you really hung up on this? cmon man...there are more important threads for me to spend time reading....like the one about milk

[chiang mai]

its very simple; if you are addressing a group of racially-homogenous people and you say "you people" then yeah its not very nice (but I still don't think its racist).

Thus, on TV, unless the race of a group is the target of the phrase then it is harmless. But that hardly ever comes up. Nationality is different. If a brit said to americans "you people are always causing trouble around the world" then one would focus on the "causing trouble" not the "you people" part.

You use the example of detroit in the 60/70s. that was a whole diff ballgame.

Are you really hung up on this? cmon man...there are more important threads for me to spend time reading....like the one about milk

For the last time, I'm not hung up on this I'm curious, if the answers to the original question are not of interest, feel free not to read them.

[mca]

I recently read that thread where you berated a member for using that term and i must admit I have no idea why you consider the phrase racist. Maybe an American thing ? certainly not heard of any problems using the term in the UK.

I would have no hesitation using "You People".. it means nothing to me other than addressing a group of people. PC gone wrong imo.

Maybe in your language it is considered offensive, but certainly in mine I would be surprised if it raised eye brows!

Unless the term is directed at certain groups of people in a negative & derogatory way, such as at Indians / Pakistanis / Blacks etc.

In a neutral way it cannot be perceived as being racist.

That's how I see it. If a black dude was to say " I can't find a job" and I said " Well you people don't like to work" I'd expect to get a smack in the gob as I'd obviously be referring to blacks. If I was a company owner and held a staff meeting because we were losing work due to easily avoidable mistakes and I said "You people need to buck your ideas up" then that's a different matter.

[chiang mai]

I recently read that thread where you berated a member for using that term and i must admit I have no idea why you consider the phrase racist. Maybe an American thing ? certainly not heard of any problems using the term in the UK.

I would have no hesitation using "You People".. it means nothing to me other than addressing a group of people. PC gone wrong imo.

Maybe in your language it is considered offensive, but certainly in mine I would be surprised if it raised eye brows!

Unless the term is directed at certain groups of people in a negative & derogatory way, such as at Indians / Pakistanis / Blacks etc.

In a neutral way it cannot be perceived as being racist.

That's how I see it. If a black dude was to say " I can't find a job" and I said " Well you people don't like to work" I'd expect to get a smack in the gob as I'd obviously be referring to blacks. If I was a company owner and held a staff meeting because we were losing work due to easily avoidable mistakes and I said "You people need to buck your ideas up" then that's a different matter.

It sounds like in that example the type of message is more important than anything else, if you substitute "white" for "black" in your opening sentance I'd expect you to get smacked in the gob regardless of the race or colour invloved.

[buhi]

How is this relevant to Thailand?

It is about English usage, how American and British English may differ in certain situations.

I might say to a class I am teaching, "You guys are the best,"is that any different to, "You people are great to teach."?

Edited July 9, 2012 by buhi

[NomadJoe]

It's simple. It depends on the context. It can be clearly used as a racial slur, and it can clear be used as not a racial slur. I generally avoid it unless it is clear that I'm not using it in an offensive, racial way.

Interestingly,the word "niggardly" occasionally draws fierce criticism from people that don't understand what it means. ("stingy" or "miserly") It shares no entomology with the racial slur "nigger.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22

Edited July 9, 2012 by NomadJoe

[Gary A]

One of the reasons that I moved over here is to get away from the PC crap. That phrase doesn't bother me in the least. Some of the Thai Visa farangs get irritated when the Thais call them a farang. It comes down to the fact that some people have too much time to think of things to complain about.

[chiang mai]

One of the reasons that I moved over here is to get away from the PC crap. That phrase doesn't bother me in the least. Some of the Thai Visa farangs get irritated when the Thais call them a farang. It comes down to the fact that some people have too much time to think of things to complain about.

If you'd bothered to take the time to read the thread Gary you'd see that nobody is complaining, just enquiring and that enquiry is being made with a specific purpose in mind.

[chiang mai]

OK since we're approaching the alcohol hour and the repsonses are likely to become less reliable, let me sum up what I think I have read here:

Most Brits don't seem to care about the phrase and being totally against any form of PC most believe the term is available for use without restriction.

The Americans seem to have a more guarded view, some thing it's not a an entirely pleasant term although most agree it is not racist, I can be forgiven I hope for allowing my experiences from Detroit in the 1970's cloud my opinion on this.

The audience and the context in which the term is used is absolutely key, whether it's an acceptable expression or not is determined by the message that accompanies it, the audience to who it is given and the tone in which it is delivered.

For me I choose not to use the experession but I commit to not pick up on other posters who do, unless it's clearly intended as a derogatory slur.

Many thanks, job done!

[Semper]

is it a phrase that can safetly be used or not?

You'll know, if you get a short 'holiday'.

[Jingthing]

It's not polite to speak to the group of people referred to. In some settings and contexts it will get your ass kicked. Up to you.

[chiang mai]

is it a phrase that can safetly be used or not?

You'll know, if you get a short 'holiday'.

It came close, I felt the wind as it whistled past my brow!

Tomorrows question, is it permissable and acceptable to refer to a female as a "broad", an Americanism that was widely used during the early/mid 1990's.

Edited July 9, 2012 by chiang mai

[daoyai]

I have learned to substitute "you folks" for you people, sound homey and folksy, I am fascinated by such subjects and sensitivities, one of my favorites is how "colored people" has been replaced by "people of color" that one always makes me smile.

[brit1984]

I love all of you people.

No offence intended.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[dave111223]

I go outside every day, people point at me and shout things to me because I'm white ("Hey you", "Farang", "You!" etc...)... they try to charge me a higher price at every shop because of my color.

I don't care at all, does not bother me one bit; seriously minorities in the USA need to <deleted>!

Edited July 9, 2012 by dave111223

[Jingthing]

I have learned to substitute "you folks" for you people, sound homey and folksy, I am fascinated by such subjects and sensitivities, one of my favorites is how "colored people" has been replaced by "people of color" that one always makes me smile.

But you got that totally wrong. That's not what happened at all. Talking Americanisms here. We used to have colored people and Negros. That changed to black. That changed to African Americans. Black is still acceptable but African American is considered the most polite. Colored people and Negros are terms that are no longer acceptable but they are not total slurs like the N word. People of color refers to ALL non-whites. Including Asians and Latinos. Not only black people. (I still think using Black is OK and I actually prefer it.) Edited July 9, 2012 by Jingthing

[chiang mai]

Very interesting JT you've steered very clearly towards a black (or shades of) people/white (shades of) people context of "you people" in this discussion, and it was for this reason that I believed it was inappropriate to use the term.

[KeyserSoze01]

Interesting, my own experience of the phrase (I'm a Brit by the way) was of living and working in Detroit in the 1970's. I worked for a bank downtown and nearly all of my staff were African Americans (I hope I got that right, apologies if I didn't), using a phrase such as "you people" would have seen me facing a law suit for racial discrimination. I have to admit that at the time the whole race relations thing was on a knife edge following the Detroit riots but it served as useful experience for me as to what could be said and what shouldn't. When I challenged the first poster a few months ago I decided to research the phrase and see what the popular view is, hence the entry from the Urban Dictionary above which seems to imply it's still off limits.

Looking at some of the replies thus far I would guess the way this is going to come out is that the Brits will say it's all PC gone mad, but it'll be interesting to see if the Americans say the same thing.

You have been conditioned to avoid the phrase as it is deemed a racist remark by the blacks you were working with. So, to avoid their panties getting in a twist, the PC thing is to avoid the phrase. What do you call a black person in public anymore so as to not upset the apple cart? If you use a term that is acceptable to one group, it is offensive to another group.

As someone else stated, leave your prejudices at home when moving to a 3rd world country.

[KeyserSoze01]

I have learned to substitute "you folks" for you people, sound homey and folksy, I am fascinated by such subjects and sensitivities, one of my favorites is how "colored people" has been replaced by "people of color" that one always makes me smile.

But you got that totally wrong. That's not what happened at all. Talking Americanisms here. We used to have colored people and Negros. That changed to black. That changed to African Americans. Black is still acceptable but African American is considered the most polite. Colored people and Negros are terms that are no longer acceptable but they are not total slurs like the N word. People of color refers to ALL non-whites. Including Asians and Latinos. Not only black people. (I still think using Black is OK and I actually prefer it.)

Depends on where you live in the US as to what is acceptable.

Nothing is ever said about the reverse-discrimination when whites are called honky, white bread, cracker, etc... It's only offensive if whitey uses a colloquial term to describe another race. Go figure.

[Jingthing]

What I described is generally true nationally in the US. The main grey area might be about African Americans vs. Black. In some environments black will be corrected. In other environments using African American may be criticized as too PC. Forget about using colored or negro ANYWHERE in the US at any time.

Is white bread really offensive? I find it descriptive. Like WASP.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Jingthing