Wife Wants To Stay With Our Son Against My Will

[phl]

i hope this is not the case but i think deep down she has made up her mind she wants out.regarding his finaces he still has 2yrs left to pay on a car that his inlaws are useing.there is a new topic started yesterday in the general forum by smallviking about a young man his age he should read it.

My biggest regret of my life right now, that car. inlaws aren't even using it when I'm away. Or at least, not driving it. If they really have to go somewhere, it's the brother who drives (who has no licence and isn't even old enough to drive) or they pay someone to drive.

If I somehow go back with my son, then yes I'll use that against her, telling her that I won't send any money unless she comes back. If she somehow doesn't want to comeback, and is going to work in a bar, I could use that against her for later on if needed. She could also just go to work with her brother, going to sell food to the workers who build houses etc ... but not sure, with that sister around.

Mate, it all sounds like she is no longer interested in you or the son(sorry not wanting to put you down or be negative) but it does sound like the loving mama and papa have convinced her to go back to bar.

The motherly love in Thailand really is not all that much, just see what her parents are doing.

At this point, i would take your son, get her to sign he release forms so he can travel and stay with you and get back to your NEW life without her in it.

As sad and painful as it sounds, i think its your only way.

[phl]

It is clear YOU now have a choice:

A. Return to Belgium with your son and raise him as a single parent.

or

B. Try to work something out as a family unit in Thailand.

I recommend B (but I am sure others will recommend A).

If you return to Belgium now (which your wife seems to be ok with) I doubt she will have any meaningful relationship (if any) with your son (or you) going forward. You will be raising your son as a single parent which will be tough for you (and him).

I recommend you at least try to make it work in Thailand (ideally in Bangkok and definitely away from her family) for 1 or 2 years before deciding what to do longer term once your son reaches school age. This is your best chance to save your marriage and keep your family together.

Others will recommend option A, as that will get you (and your son) away from the (currently negative) influence of his mother. This option is certainly preferable if (and only if) your wife is a lost cause (mentally), which is difficult for me (or anyone) to say.

I would also agree with B, if there was a hope, but for OP's sake and baby's i would go with A

[brit1984]

Based on his wife's current mental state, going home without her is a no brainer. The question is whether her mental state will improve in the future, allowing for a better outcome (i.e. keeping his marriage and family together and maybe even returning as one to Belgium in the future).

To predict the probability of his wife getting her head straight in the future (or I should say the OP getting his wife's head straight) the OP needs to consult an expert (or do some research / reading) on psychology (with a focus on the psychology of former sex workers).

[Djens]

I'm still of course planning to do my best to get both back to Belgium, but I'm considering everything. I need a back up plan B, C, D ... You get it

Nope, I don't think wife is already pregnant. I took my precautions, but you may never know. I'll see. I'm still waiting on her new ideas, it's too bad I can't understand thai or isaan more than I do, because I'd so much like to catch the parents pushing my wife to go to the bar. Weird ...

I'm due to be back beginning of Septembre. I'm in Isaan right now, not too far from Chaiyaphum.

[gregb]

It is clear YOU now have a choice:

A. Return to Belgium with your son and raise him as a single parent.

or

B. Try to work something out as a family unit in Thailand.

I recommend B (but I am sure others will recommend A).

If you return to Belgium now (which your wife seems to be ok with) I doubt she will have any meaningful relationship (if any) with your son (or you) going forward. You will be raising your son as a single parent which will be tough for you (and him).

I recommend you at least try to make it work in Thailand (ideally in Bangkok and definitely away from her family) for 1 or 2 years before deciding what to do longer term once your son reaches school age. This is your best chance to save your marriage and keep your family together.

Others will recommend option A, as that will get you (and your son) away from the (currently negative) influence of his mother. This option is certainly preferable if (and only if) your wife is a lost cause (mentally), which is difficult for me (or anyone) to say.

I'm going to disagree with Brit here, but maybe not for the reason you think. The fact is, nobody knows what might happen with your wife in the future. If you have the chance to get your child home right now, you take it. It would be irresponsible of you to stay and possibly lose that opportunity. Once your child is safely back in Belgium, you leave him with his grandmother or an equally reliable caregiver, and you return individually to see if you can resolve things with your wife. A couple of weeks apart might actually be good just to see what it is that she really wants.

Working in a bar isn't easy. It isn't the great freedom that everyone imagines it is. This is the low season also. Even if she tries this a couple of nights, she may realize this isn't going to be like she dreams. Or...you could find out that this really wasn't her plan at all. In either case, sometimes a bit of distance can be a good thing. Of course, it can also be a disaster.

Yes, this will set you back the additional cost of a round trip airfare, and require you to get someone in Belgium to watch your son for a few months, but it leaves you with all your options. If you become convinced that you would like to make a go of it as a family, you can always go get your son and come back. Or maybe you can talk your wife into coming back home. Yes, you will have to pay a little more this way, but you leave your options open. It is cheap insurance given what is at stake.

You have to accept right now that your marriage may have reached a point of irreconcilable differences. It also may simply be a phase that you can work through. But that phase is best worked through with your child safely in Belgium. You will know in your heart within a few months what the eventual outcome is going to be. Just be honest and see where it goes. But do not risk losing your child by leaving him in Thailand. If she grants you the right to take him home, you jump at that chance for his sake.

[phl]

Based on his wife's current mental state, going home without her is a no brainer. The question is whether her mental state will improve in the future, allowing for a better outcome (i.e. keeping his marriage and family together and maybe even returning as one to Belgium in the future).

To predict the probability of his wife getting her head straight in the future (or I should say the OP getting his wife's head straight) the OP needs to consult an expert (or do some research / reading) on psychology (with a focus on the psychology of former sex workers).

I am afraid she is past that already as you can see she is already planning to stay in Pattaya.

The sister is also in the same field of work

I doubt any specialist would help, as it would take years not months to work through it.

Bottom line is, mama, papa, brother and everyone else in the family expects and demands money. What she feels or wants is not their concern, she will do as they want.

The only chance for it all to work out, is for OP to start to send money on monthly basis

[Djens]

The only chance for it all to work out, is for OP to start to send money on monthly basis

Which isn't going to happen, no matter what. Simply put, I won't leave without my son, and If I manage to leave with my son but without the wife, there will be no money at all. Nada. Unless she comes back without making any problems and without doing something stupid prior to that (like going to a bar for example). In that case, I continue the yearly payments for the car, but that's all. And once that's done, there will be no money for the family. That's done. If she isn't happy, she can go ... but not by taking my son hostage.

I need to be on my own turf, as here in Thailand I just can't achieve anything. But again, I'm not leaving without my son. If I have to stay here to fight to get him back, I will. A roof and food is all it takes to stay. Then there's the visa thing, but that's not too hard to solve I guess.

[Djens]

And the fact she said yesterday that he could come with me isn't certain at all. She could be trying to convince me to accept some things since she knows how I feel about our son staying here and then just try to keep him here.

[brit1984]

Which isn't going to happen, no matter what. Simply put, I won't leave without my son, and If I manage to leave with my son but without the wife, there will be no money at all. Nada. Unless she comes back without making any problems and without doing something stupid prior to that (like going to a bar for example). In that case, I continue the yearly payments for the car, but that's all. And once that's done, there will be no money for the family. That's done. If she isn't happy, she can go ... but not by taking my son hostage.

I need to be on my own turf, as here in Thailand I just can't achieve anything. But again, I'm not leaving without my son. If I have to stay here to fight to get him back, I will. A roof and food is all it takes to stay. Then there's the visa thing, but that's not too hard to solve I guess.

I agree not to go anywhere without your son, and any money you make should be spent on him and the household in which he lives only.

PS: would you mind to edit your post because at the moment it looks like the quote to which you are responding was made my me.

Edited July 12, 2012 by brit1984

[brit1984]

It is clear YOU now have a choice:

A. Return to Belgium with your son and raise him as a single parent.

or

B. Try to work something out as a family unit in Thailand.

I recommend B (but I am sure others will recommend A).

If you return to Belgium now (which your wife seems to be ok with) I doubt she will have any meaningful relationship (if any) with your son (or you) going forward. You will be raising your son as a single parent which will be tough for you (and him).

I recommend you at least try to make it work in Thailand (ideally in Bangkok and definitely away from her family) for 1 or 2 years before deciding what to do longer term once your son reaches school age. This is your best chance to save your marriage and keep your family together.

Others will recommend option A, as that will get you (and your son) away from the (currently negative) influence of his mother. This option is certainly preferable if (and only if) your wife is a lost cause (mentally), which is difficult for me (or anyone) to say.

I'm going to disagree with Brit here, but maybe not for the reason you think. The fact is, nobody knows what might happen with your wife in the future. If you have the chance to get your child home right now, you take it. It would be irresponsible of you to stay and possibly lose that opportunity. Once your child is safely back in Belgium, you leave him with his grandmother or an equally reliable caregiver, and you return individually to see if you can resolve things with your wife. A couple of weeks apart might actually be good just to see what it is that she really wants.

Working in a bar isn't easy. It isn't the great freedom that everyone imagines it is. This is the low season also. Even if she tries this a couple of nights, she may realize this isn't going to be like she dreams. Or...you could find out that this really wasn't her plan at all. In either case, sometimes a bit of distance can be a good thing. Of course, it can also be a disaster.

Yes, this will set you back the additional cost of a round trip airfare, and require you to get someone in Belgium to watch your son for a few months, but it leaves you with all your options. If you become convinced that you would like to make a go of it as a family, you can always go get your son and come back. Or maybe you can talk your wife into coming back home. Yes, you will have to pay a little more this way, but you leave your options open. It is cheap insurance given what is at stake.

You have to accept right now that your marriage may have reached a point of irreconcilable differences. It also may simply be a phase that you can work through. But that phase is best worked through with your child safely in Belgium. You will know in your heart within a few months what the eventual outcome is going to be. Just be honest and see where it goes. But do not risk losing your child by leaving him in Thailand. If she grants you the right to take him home, you jump at that chance for his sake.

Good plan

[rgs2001uk]

And the fact she said yesterday that he could come with me isn't certain at all. She could be trying to convince me to accept some things since she knows how I feel about our son staying here and then just try to keep him here.

Jesus H, take your son and leave here ASAP before the shit really hits the fan.

Tell them any old crap they want to hear, your only concern is for your child, remove both him and yourself from this situation.

I wouldnt bother with any more money for car payments.

[billd766]

Several posters have suggested that you return to Belgium with your son.

I will assume that you have relatives there who can help you out but remember you are a 26 year old unemployed man and you will have a young son to take care of 24/7.

Have you actually thought of how you will be able to do this and look for a job at the same time?

Will you explain to your prospective employer that you have a young son and you may need to take time off when he is sick or has to go to school or when your parents etc cannot take care of him?

Will you get a job with enough salary to pay for fulltime child care as well as finding somewhere to live, pay the rent, do the shopping, laundry, cooking etc.

You need to work all these things out BEFORE you commit to taking the child on.

Worse case, what happens if you go back to Belgium and you cannot get a job, who will look after you and your child.

What happens if he cries and cries for his mother all night.

Go to any online forum for single parents and see how they cope.

I am not trying to be pessimistic or do you down but looking after a child is not always that easy or simple.

I am 68 and on my second marriage with a second son and I am lucky enough to have enough pension to live comfortably but there were a few times when our son was younger (he will be 8 in a couple of weeks) when both my wife and I spelled each other to get a break with him.

Several times when he was young he spent 5 days in hospital and my wife stayed with him 24/7. What will you do if something happens like that?

I wish you the best of luck whatever you choose to do and please keep us updated.

[TommoPhysicist]

I will assume that you have relatives there who can help you out but remember you are a 26 year old unemployed man and you will have a young son to take care of 24/7.

Have you actually thought of how you will be able to do this and look for a job at the same time?

What are you on Build?

A single parent family in the EU doesn't need to work (or look for work).

Housing, food, education, money ....... all provided FOC.

My former, in the UK, as a single parent family is entitled to housing plus an income of 15k (UKP) a year (no taxes at all) for sitting on her arse all day. I suspect Belgium is even more generous.

Edited July 12, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[robblok]

@billd

He seems to have really supportive parents so that should not be a problem. If they don't live to far apart. I know many Belgian parents who take care of their grandchild when their child is working.

I think taking the child to his home country as the best option. It seems the marriage is over some girls just cant be saved.

Also i think you are putting your child in more harm then he is. Quite old for a son who might never really know his father for a long time. My dad's father als had him at later age (not that late) and he missed him dearly

Who are you to judge ?

Edited July 12, 2012 by robblok

[Djens]

Well like I said, I don't know if she really means what she said. But I hope she does of course. Let's just say that I'm not going back to Belgium with my son right now, I have a ticket and due to fly back early Septembre, and changing my ticket would cost. Right now, I still hope to be able to get EVERYONE back, I have 2 months to do so. In the meantime, If I can get brother & sister away (brother is leaving in a few days, sister will surely leave if her farang boyfriend doesn't want her, good thing).

So I'm not yet that pessimistic, even if I understand you all.

About going back to Belgium with my son, sure my parents could help me. I could live with them, house is big enough, and care for my son. I know Belgium has a great social system, a lot of aids ... I'm not sure about single parents not having to work, but I know that it wouldn't be too hard to survive in Belgium and have more than a good life, even without his mom. It's just on the emotional state that I'm worried for my son. But it's that or let him stay here and have a poor life in Thailand without knowing his dad, and that's out of the question

[meatboy]

although your head must be spinning you are starting to come to terms with it,you say the brother is leaving soon and hopefuly the sister,i would be guessing that they have already worked out their plans,what i know is these girls like to work and live in pairs lets hope this is the case and you can start to relax.its already been said dont pay anymore payments on the car because it wont be long before its sold wait till you get home before you do that as not to put you or your son in danger.djens it wont cost you much to change your flight tickets dont stay a day longer than you have to.i am willing for you.we all are.

[expat63]

Just an off the wall thought but, given your wifes strong obsession with pregnancy, are you sure she may not think/know she is pregnant already. This may explain why she is so keen to stay here as it must be difficult being pregnant and having a child in a foreign country without your family around you.

Sorry to say, but that have been my toughts as well. Having another child at this point make no sense at all. Its like a complete mad decision

Edited July 12, 2012 by expat63

[prighas]

So I'm not yet that pessimistic, even if I understand you all.

Djens - from your posts, you sound like a very intelligent young person who has plans for everything. You're planning options and sorting out alternatives which is good and healthy.

One thing I've learned during my long stay in Thailand and while interacting with many people around is very few seem to weigh out the risks and think alternatives. And I'm sure your wife is not all that detailed herself.

At this point, if I were you, I would take the safest way out to make sure my son stays with me. And that is do what a previous poster advised. Get back home ASAP with you son. Make sure he's settled and then get back to Thailand later and figure out how things can work out.

Do it now before it's too late.

[billd766]

@billd

He seems to have really supportive parents so that should not be a problem. If they don't live to far apart. I know many Belgian parents who take care of their grandchild when their child is working.

I think taking the child to his home country as the best option. It seems the marriage is over some girls just cant be saved.

Also i think you are putting your child in more harm then he is. Quite old for a son who might never really know his father for a long time. My dad's father als had him at later age (not that late) and he missed him dearly

Who are you to judge ?

Who are you to judge me?

You know absolutely nothing about me or my circumstances.

Well I probably know and understand a lot more than you about older parenting as my Dad was 55 when I was born and my Mum was 40.

Also this is my second marriage and my son from my first marriage is a very successful regional manager for Renault cars in the UK.

I had had 3 or 4 careers in the UK since I left school over a 50 year working life and over those years I have done reasonably well for myself and both my families.

As an older father I have a lot of experience from my first marriage and I have more time and patience than before.

I am always here for my son whereas before I was working away a lot but now I have all the time in the world for him.

Does that satisfy your requirements?

How would your son feel if his young Dad died suddenly?

About the same as my son would about his Dad.

Edited July 12, 2012 by billd766

[robblok]

You started judging then be prepared to be judged yourself. Anyway i wont say anymore as this is totally off topic.

[kennkate]

I have to agree with rgs and prighas That would be my plan 100%

It would need careful planing and you would have to change your flight that won't cost you a fortune should be around the £100 mark.

I have done it twice Ethiad back to UK

You problem will be getting yourself and you son away without raising suspicion,

You would have to take him to the cinema or something on your own because you would like to spend time alone with him before you go off and seek work.

I know you are quite a long way from Bangkok so you would have to ring her every 2 or 3 hrs to let her know you are OK but might be back late.

I know others will not agree But my friend taking all into consideration its the best possible outcome If it is possible

If she knows when you are due to fly back then that is when she will be on her guard.

BTW if it was me I would never go back to Thailand to work it out If she wanted to try again it would be on my turf.

[meatboy]

I have to agree with rgs and prighas That would be my plan 100%

It would need careful planing and you would have to change your flight that won't cost you a fortune should be around the £100 mark.

I have done it twice Ethiad back to UK

You problem will be getting yourself and you son away without raising suspicion,

You would have to take him to the cinema or something on your own because you would like to spend time alone with him before you go off and seek work.

I know you are quite a long way from Bangkok so you would have to ring her every 2 or 3 hrs to let her know you are OK but might be back late.

I know others will not agree But my friend taking all into consideration its the best possible outcome If it is possible

If she knows when you are due to fly back then that is when she will be on her guard.

BTW if it was me I would never go back to Thailand to work it out If she wanted to try again it would be on my turf.

are you serious have you any idea what would happen to him if he got caught,it would play right into her hands,djens dont take any notice of these stupid idea's. basard

[TommoPhysicist]

are you serious have you any idea what would happen to him if he got caught,it would play right into her hands,djens dont take any notice of these stupid idea's. basard

What do you think would happen?

and caught by who?

[meatboy]

are you serious have you any idea what would happen to him if he got caught,it would play right into her hands,djens dont take any notice of these stupid idea's. basard

What do you think would happen?

and caught by who?

the brown envelope brigade but he only has empty ones

[Djens]

Well I won't leave before my planned date, so everyone knows. I feel confident enough right now to work things out. Like I said, I won't leave Thailand without my son, that means that if I can't go trough passport control for any reasons with my son, I'm not leaving. If that means calling out for help, I will. I'm not shy or some kind of person that is afraid to call for help, so that's ok.

It might be a stupid idea to not leave now you'd say, but I try to make it work on my own right now. Today, brother and cousin are leaving to work. It's not a main influence to my wife, but that's already people out of the way, and wife could be a little more bored than before. Main issue will be the sister and I'm working on getting her away too. Then it will only be my wife and I and her parents. Can't send the parents away but they are working most of the day at the farm, the dad doesn't speak a lot and the mom well, I'll see what happens when I'm alone with both wife and mom.

[billd766]

You started judging then be prepared to be judged yourself. Anyway i wont say anymore as this is totally off topic.

Read my post carefully as I was not judging him at all but asking questions that he should think about.

[TommoPhysicist]

are you serious have you any idea what would happen to him if he got caught,it would play right into her hands,djens dont take any notice of these stupid idea's. basard

What do you think would happen?

and caught by who?

the brown envelope brigade but he only has empty ones

My pal 'abducted' his daughter back to the UK last year, during a period of marital difficulty.

He had zero problems leaving the country, the only question asked was "where is mum', his reply was 'Dunno, she was a bar girl and disappeared shortly after the birth'.

That was the end of that conversation, and he has been happily living in the UK for the past year.

Edited July 13, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Djens]

I personally never took anyone's advice as judging me or so, so please be gentle together

Ok, I have some news.

Today my wife had a minor accident with the car while she wanted to park it in front of the house. A little scratch ... but that was really dramatic for she, she cried. I told her that it was really nothing, and that a car isn't a person but a thing that we use to move around, a pait job could do the trick. She then said she wanted to sell the car (how extreme) to buy a new one, a smaller one (we have a pick up). I said NO, out of the question, I'm not buying a new car in Thailand, I'll buy a car in Belgium.

She then asked for a motorbike. I told her that I'd buy her a motorbike only if she comes back, and she agreed. And I trust her. It's all about possesion, having more than the neighbour, and I'm sure that since her brother, cousin and soon sister will leave, she knows it won't be fun here alone.

I'm of course very happy, but I won't let my guard down. You never know what may happen ... you never know a person 100%

So, I don't regret having said yes. Seems I "bought" my wife back ... feels weird but I don't care, because the moment I'm in Belgium, she won't play any more tricks on me. I'll be prepared for the next trips.

I'll still be here to answer of course.

[prighas]

While I do she goes back with you, I don't think she will.

[Djens]

Well I don't lose anything by trying it out. If she doesn't follow me, she'll have a car + a bike to pay.