Commune Near Chiang Mai

WinnieTheKhwai · July 12, 2012

Re WTK pic. Thats the kind of input thats valuable. Beautiful, practical. And inspiational

if you have any further details ora website please letus know.

It's from a construction forum. The topic is here: <link removed> It has a lot of stuff on how to build with bamboo too.

doesn't bamboo have issues with termites?

Well, all of that was talked about in that topic.. First of all the bamboo needs to be mature enough, and then it needs to be treated with some chemicals.. You can probably find the information it by googling for bamboo eco house build.

Another good site is this one, located in Chiang Mai, though it's a commercial company: http://www.chiangmailifeconstruction.com/

lukey1979 · July 12, 2012

To the OP. I hear you Brother, truly you desires are a breath of fresh air.

To the pillocks who see such aspirations as ''cultism" I hope you burn with the rest of the unenlightened proles...

simple1 · July 12, 2012

To the OP. I hear you Brother, truly you desires are a breath of fresh air.

To the pillocks who see such aspirations as ''cultism" I hope you burn with the rest of the unenlightened proles...

Just the kind of guy you need in a commune!

Grafted · July 12, 2012

Re EARTHBAG Construction

Yes, I have in fact. I built a 9m diameter compression roof earthbag guest cottage in Brisbane. Its a do- able technique and much fewer processes than mud brick. I ended up averaging about 11 mins per bag including tamping but not including mud rendering. Most alternate structures are SUPER labour intensive. I was assisted by having a kind of clay type "road base" (used for making country roads.) It was easy to shovel and dumped in piles all around the build area. If I had to dig it out or barrow it - forget it, I'm not into masochism! Earthbagging is great. Even a mug can do it. It suits a cold climate but I would not do it here.

My call on building is to first reference the climate and purpose and work on from there. Here means the Lampang / CMai area. My call on the climate is that it is consistently warm, a bit hot for 3-4 months, pleasantly cool at night in the winter months and humidity is not taxing. One thing that surprised me was experienceing the moderating influence of a "forest" environment. The shade / and evaporative transpiration of the plants seem to lower the temp by 2- 3 degrees. The concrete on concrete theme is a total worry!

My call on building style is within the context of the commune setting. A llittle eco and lot eco - nomic and certainly governed by reasonable COMFORT. Moew from me soon but first has anyone else attempted building in an "alternate" way? Note one persons alternate is another's normal! But we've had that discussion.

KRS1 · July 12, 2012

Look into thai construction techniques, generations of building a predominant style of structure has its reasons.

hellodolly · July 12, 2012

Re EARTHBAG Construction

Yes, I have in fact. I built a 9m diameter compression roof earthbag guest cottage in Brisbane. Its a do- able technique and much fewer processes than mud brick. I ended up averaging about 11 mins per bag including tamping but not including mud rendering. Most alternate structures are SUPER labour intensive. I was assisted by having a kind of clay type "road base" (used for making country roads.) It was easy to shovel and dumped in piles all around the build area. If I had to dig it out or barrow it - forget it, I'm not into masochism! Earthbagging is great. Even a mug can do it. It suits a cold climate but I would not do it here.

My call on building is to first reference the climate and purpose and work on from there. Here means the Lampang / CMai area. My call on the climate is that it is consistently warm, a bit hot for 3-4 months, pleasantly cool at night in the winter months and humidity is not taxing. One thing that surprised me was experienceing the moderating influence of a "forest" environment. The shade / and evaporative transpiration of the plants seem to lower the temp by 2- 3 degrees. The concrete on concrete theme is a total worry!

My call on building style is within the context of the commune setting. A llittle eco and lot eco - nomic and certainly governed by reasonable COMFORT. Moew from me soon but first has anyone else attempted building in an "alternate" way? Note one persons alternate is another's normal! But we've had that discussion.

Not sure but the Earth Bag construction idea seems to me like it would be cool. The aesthetics might suck.

I was thinking on the housing every one would have there own personal house and property. Or if they didn't have a Thai partner rent from a co-op. All land not being used for residential purposes would be owned by a co-op and every one would be a member of it.

It would take a lot of planning but I think a maximum number of residents could be predetermined and if not enough people leave it open for people to come in. It would probably take a knowledgeable person to survey the property and determine what how much to be used for growing food and how much for recreation? and how much just because it is natural to be used as it is no improvement on it.

It for sure would be a different kind of life style but there are a lot of expat's here in Thailand and I am reasonably sure enough people could be found to start it up if not in fact fill it up. My idea of the residence would be on a good sized lot with lots of room between them. This of curse depends on how many people and how much land would be set aside for other reasons.

Not sure how to set any thing up with the political climate being what it is today. Not thatI think there would be any thing done to just get the foreigners but laws in general.

PoodMaiDai

I resent your implication that I can not do a day's work.

For your information I can. It just takes me two weeks to do it.

Grafted · July 12, 2012

Eco – nomic Private Space Commune home for 1 or 2 persons

Rationale: The building is for sleeping, bathing and some relaxing. TV watching, Computing etc. The presumption is that cooking and dining will mostly be enjoyed in community space, (flowers on the tables, Blackboard menu every night (we’ll need to live an active life to keep the weight down), and a lot of the relaxing also. Anyone for snooker, 500 or canasta, guitars and bongos, (does anyone play bass?) discussing Keats or Kierkegaard, pool volleyball, a beer and some nachos & guacamole, a skinnydip. Etc ... etc .. who wants to sit in a house and watch TV alone!

Bamboo used is treated immediately after it is cut with a pressurised boric acid (borax) solution. See CMai bamboo groups Ytube.

1. Small Approx 4 x 9m Sitting space, small eating table, I bedroom, 1 bathroom, hotel style kitchenette, desk.

I’ve been living in a pretty spacious 2 bed(1 with a/c, 2 bath 2 level townhouse but I have never used the top 2 bedrooms – its hot up there and I don’t like climbing stairs. This place is 1 of about 12 in a row – all sharing connected walls. It is 3.8 x 10m that’s 38sqm. Small means everything is cheaper easier to clean and ... beautiful!

2. Concrete floor

Polished with ochre in the top 2cm for colour

Concrete posts and top plate. Bamboo ridgepole in rectangular building

It’s hard to beat Concrete for the skeleton of a building in Thailand. Polished floors are great, no grouting lines to collect dust, and ochre effects are stunning.

3. The whole envelope is wrapped in mosquito netting.

I hate mossies – with a fierce passion. This is the answer

4. There are no walls.

(Unless you want something for privacy. I plan to have bamboo trellises surrounding at least 3 sides with snake bean, passionfruit and whatever else, creating a green screen. Maybe also growing over the roof. For privacy there are very nice bamboo matting screens that when given multi coats of sprayed on lacquer look great and wear well. (The lacquer is rock hard and would take a determined little bug to dig into it) although a refresh of lacquer every 2 years is needed to maintain the look.

If you want a stunning look consider water bottles filled with coloured water(dye is so cheap) hung with fishing line from the top plate. Just imagine the rainbow hues.

5. There are NO WINDOWS or doors.

OK you already think I’m nuts, but seriously, I only close my windows here to keep out the noise of cat fights, incessantly barking dogs, and the music of a neighbour. I use only a fan, though I have a/c and if I had no concrete I would not have to use it at all in the evening. There is no crime, (maybe I’ve been lucky but I NEVER lock a motor bike, what an inconvenience to someone who might have to move it) and there will be even less crime (less than zero??) in a closed community. Doorways to be hung with a double layer of those spaghetti bamboo and bead “fly strips” Glass is amazing – it lets in light and traps heat inside – wonderful for Europe – not for the tropics. WIde eaves keep out rain and Trees modify winds.

6.There is no ceiling.

Ceilings only serve to trap the heat. Heat builds up ... actually it builds down ...think ...We are using A simple cathedral roof style which is great for the tropics as the hot air rises away from you and can easily exit thru the gable ends. PS: If you want one way to immediately improve your home air freshness – install a fan INTO the wall as high up as you can. It will suck in cooler fresher air. A mezzanine level for an extra bedroom could be added.

7. The Roof

I'll bet you were wondering! Yes, we have a roof. It’s multi layer, 1.Bamboo rafters. 2.“smash split” bamboo over for decorative effect, (it’s like splitting the bamboo in sections and rolling it out flat – kinda hard to explain, you can see a Youtube vid of it being done, any Thai will do a roof’s worth in a few hours) 3. Used vinyl signs (There are miles of this stuff discarded every month – 2.4 x 1.2 metre “Tesaban” street signs. after a grand opening or 10 year sale or some such – especially after elections. It is so easy to glue together and gives you an impermeable barrier making your 4th Layer Traditional grass roof a real possibility. Roof overhang of 90.cm

Rain water is collected trenches at the drip line of the roof. A plastic lined V trench filled with a “pipe” made from water bottles (like home made slotted pipe is on the bottom, covered with stone, directs water to underground concrete cistern big enough to service 4 - 6 houses. A two step system with a pump can be used those who do not trust “God” to provide clean rain water. PS Almost no bird or animal bug is really harmful to humans ... don’t trot out the bird crap on the roof story, its birdcrap– there are few birds here anyway.

8. No A/C, standard electrical fitted to the posts

9. No tiles – Use ochre in concrete for finish and effect (it is so good and so cheap) Concrete Vanity and kitchen bench top. Thais are good with concrete IMO.

10. NO WATER CLOSET. I’ll use a Humanure Toilet system.

OK, This is contentious. First, think of the current systems used in the TOWN area I am in. SEPTIC .. and very unscientific septic at that – no decent leaching trenches. Yuk. The e-coli thrives in tropic temps. Water supply is typically drawn from shallow wells. Does anyone spot a problem? Yes, bacteria is cleaned up pretty well as it travels thru the earth – as long as it travels slowly over a decent distance. In clay soils it doesn’t travel anywhere –just spreads laterally. So the defacto standard is very bad.

Humanure has been around for a long time and has never had a bad rap. Essentially you cover your doings with something like fine crushed dried earth (best)or any high carbon small cut product like sawdust. Rice husk is PERFECT. The thing you sit on can look ok – it’s just a box with a 20 litre plastic paint container inside. Normal seat, just no flush. IT DOES NOT SMELL. If you want you can attach a vent pipe to the back of the box, paint it black so the sun heats the air in it .. it will then create convection currents suck air out of the room thru the loo and up the pipe .... in the daytime.

I think the worst of it is having to move to wash your bum.

When full it must be emptied (great job for STAFF but I’m not above doing it myself) into a compost heap system ... read up on it there is a very good book available for free download.

I could say lots more on this topic including the fact we are reaching peak phosphorus. That Urine is a great source of this VITAL fertilizer ingredient. You probably know about divided loos and collecting systems used in Sweden. IMO in a rural situation it is easy to pee into a “funnel” set into some arty concrete sculpture and have a pipe with S bend go out the wall into a drum with a tight lid and a high vent. I cup of water flushes it.

Here endeth the Humanure sermon.

I said 70,000baht. It should look like a traditional Thai cottage. It’s not disposable but neither is it the investment of a lifetime. No need for a builder and their mark up of 100% plus, just local Thai men who have done this stuff for years and love the idea of a farang respecting their culture. Remember that I’m planning several of these so I’ll re-use forms etc and buy some stuff in bulk. I’m sure there are people who can cost this better than me. Let’s say I am 100% wrong and it would cost 140,000 baht. TSK!

I admit this is radical but I didn’t think it all up sitting on the loo for just one crap. So please when you respond, you give it some thought too. As JFK’s script writer once said “...ASK WHY NOT!

I’d rather do the sleeping quarters cheaper and have more to spend on the shared living areas of the Common Facilities / pool etc. Snooker tables are not cheap!

Later I’ll rave about an idea for a wall panel material that has zero input costs. That's fun too!

Sparkles · July 13, 2012

Many said back in 1981 it would never work. www.bundagen.com.au a little slice of paradise near my old farm. Good luck with the project.

TantraMantra · July 13, 2012

To the OP. I hear you Brother, truly you desires are a breath of fresh air.

To the pillocks who see such aspirations as ''cultism" I hope you burn with the rest of the unenlightened proles...

With Respect Lukey, a statement like that might exclude even an enlightened soul like you from most moderate cults or even some extreme ones....I mean communes...I mean communes of normal people. You'd frighten people with curses like that. Sounds a bit Phsyco.

Proof that candidates to join would need to be very well vetted and even investigated.

It's all very well talking about building ideas but only the right mix of people can make this work.

It's like getting married and starting a family. It can't be taken lightly.

Vegetarians and Carnivores or Omnivores don't mix well for start.

jaideeguy · July 13, 2012

To the OP...

I thought that the concept would be a good idea and even posted a similar thread on Thaivisa several years ago and came to the conclusion that it would be a major task just find compatible, reasonable, and sane people [as evidenced by all the negativity posted so far......and the worst has been filtered out by the moderators].

In theory, it seems like the perfect solution for us expats......to join forces, resources and finances with the goal of creating a comfortable, eco friendly and peacefull community with the hopes of having neighbors with similar interests that you could interact with.

But I came to the realization that we [expats] are such a diverse and independent breed and so many contrary philosophies [as evidenced by the posters again] and having lived in a gated moobaan with a dozen expat couples who’s only interests were to just drink and gossip, insult and have fights.

And then the dynamics are even more complicated by the expat’s [Thai] spouses and you have a recipe for disaster.

These are just my observations after toying with the idea of communal living and just observing expats for 12+ yrs. I have come to the conclusion that I am mostly content on my own and now living peacefully in the ricefields outside of CM and have dropped out of the expat social scene and choose my friends carefully.

That’s not to say that it couldn’t be done successfully…….

The concept could probably work if the land were titled and each household had at least 5 rai so as not to disturb your neighbors with your free range chickens, pigs or other critters and maybe a small group [5 or 7 households] with equal voting rights and an odd number to break ties on decision making and all paying equal amounts for communal projects like utilities, water, common roads etc….but not an easy project here with us.Maybe the binding force for some of the successful communes is religion or politics, but, unfortunately I don’t believe in either of those and try to avoid those kind of people in

TantraMantra · July 13, 2012

To the OP...

I thought that the concept would be a good idea and even posted a similar thread on Thaivisa several years ago and came to the conclusion that it would be a major task just find compatible, reasonable, and sane people [as evidenced by all the negativity posted so far......and the worst has been filtered out by the moderators].

In theory, it seems like the perfect solution for us expats......to join forces, resources and finances with the goal of creating a comfortable, eco friendly and peacefull community with the hopes of having neighbors with similar interests that you could interact with.

But I came to the realization that we [expats] are such a diverse and independent breed and so many contrary philosophies [as evidenced by the posters again] and having lived in a gated moobaan with a dozen expat couples who’s only interests were to just drink and gossip, insult and have fights.

And then the dynamics are even more complicated by the expat’s [Thai] spouses and you have a recipe for disaster.

These are just my observations after toying with the idea of communal living and just observing expats for 12+ yrs. I have come to the conclusion that I am mostly content on my own and now living peacefully in the ricefields outside of CM and have dropped out of the expat social scene and choose my friends carefully.

That’s not to say that it couldn’t be done successfully…….

The concept could probably work if the land were titled and each household had at least 5 rai so as not to disturb your neighbors with your free range chickens, pigs or other critters and maybe a small group [5 or 7 households] with equal voting rights and an odd number to break ties on decision making and all paying equal amounts for communal projects like utilities, water, common roads etc….but not an easy project here with us.Maybe the binding force for some of the successful communes is religion or politics, but, unfortunately I don’t believe in either of those and try to avoid those kind of people in

I agree with you. In India, Indonesia and to a certain extent in Thailand and throughout SE Asia, you see many generations of an extended family living together happily. It's natural.

Putting a group of strangers together is more complicated. It's like starting a society. They need to be like minded and compatible in many ways. You need to have service charges or taxes and a governing council etc. Some people will be a pain in the ass. You'll want to get rid of them.

So the social implications should be discussed up front as they're at least as important as Eco Toilets.

How many people is the commune meant to accommodate for a start?

When I think about it maybe the word 'Commune' might be an unfortunate choice.

We've all probably read 'Lord of the Flies' seen 'The Beach' and heard of 'Jonestown'.....Sorry for my extreme examples...Findhorn in Scotland and Auroraville in India are more positive examples.

Anyway, If I was doing this I'd do background checks on at least some potential participants.

It only takes one bad apple after all...

Best wishes for the project though..just my 2 baht worth

Grafted · July 13, 2012

Re: Choosing carefully. Point taken ... point made many times, point was in fact taken the first time! Input is good variation on a theme is even better.

Now ... ice shower .... ok

Let's all go back a few years. Remember your first few years at school. Remember playing marbles? How well did you know the other kids? Did you have to fill out a form to get admitted to the game? I reckon we (and I exclude me) get a bit precious about both our marbles and who we play the game with.

I did ed at uni and was a teacher for 8 years. Other teachers would be very quick to pass on stories about how bad this one behaved ... how this other one was a nuisance. I gave em all a fresh slate and tried to dismiss the judgements of others. Here's my tuppence worth. 1, People respond differently to different people, I probably bring out the worst in many people - some might endure me, the minority would find me acceptable company. My perspective is that apart from getting people to sign agreement to some basic tennants = like nothing illegal, nothing that impinges on another's reasonable rights and your continued participation must have majority acceptance .. (hey I don't want to write a rule book here), but I just don't think you, dear reader, ( as being an example of the populace) are really so bad! And if you are going to say "others" can't be trusted or some such - then you give them the right to say that about you.

Most blokes are decent people.

Now lets commune the *&^ out of here and use a better description - RETIREMENT VILLAGE. Oooooh how NORMAL. A bit boring even. All old people? well how many 20 somethings might be attracted to such a place? Of course it is going to be populated with old farts like me, and my missus. And maybe you.

Some genuine dude suggested 5 rai each and scatter to the 4 winds .... sorry not on my watch. Check out my purposes, and consider your own. Why would anyone choose to live in a group environment like a hermit? Consider, no roads, ZERO traffic. 2 person wide walking paths, easy access to the various great scenes like a FREE RESTAURANT, like a wonderful swimming pool that looks a bit like the kinda pond you used to dive for golf balls in to make some pocket money (much much nicer but I'm trying to make a point) Like our own bar with wholesale priced grog. Like a pool table, or Ping Pong joint. Nope. The overall idea is live small, but do it together. Get off ThaiVisa and on with something that resembles life.

I'm suggesting our little sleep shacks are close together but so thickly planted between that each one is invisible to another.. yep it can be done. That we maybe get our breaky or we walk the 30 metres to the restaurant and as we chew on some toast and coffee talk about what we might think about doing today .. or maybe tomorrow - Bill wants a hand to put up his ham radio antenna, and a swim would be good. Yes I am just stupid enough to think that you might be an interesting person - and you could be (almost) anyone.

So far no-one has suggested 70,000 baht will not build you a perfectly acceptable climatically suitable place to lay your head. I'm suggesting that those who want to keep their marbles in their pockets have already lost them (and I mean that both ways). Nothing here needs to be expensive. Hire an excavator for a day, get a pile of concrete blocks, some plastic and a few metres of gravel .... we'll build that pool together and do it all with small change. I'll make a few suggestions about how to get into it financially, and how to get out with a fair truckload of what you put in, maybe all, maybe if we do it well enough and some dude really wants your spot you might even turn a quid?

I note that about 1500 people have visited this discussion. I'd hazard a guess that more than a few are not living the totally together life they'd like to be living. And I reckon the main reason is FEAR - what if it (whatever IT is) doesn't work out. Its easier to do as another poster said happened in his moo baan - "drinking, gossiping and fighting". What about working out how we'll set up a "something or other" over a beer, what about trying to work out how they make that french "fois gras" by force feeding ducks .... anybody wanna discuss using the tree load of mulberries to make some wine? Cmon, us blokes love to do stuff .... I'm never happier than when I'm doing something slightly useful like painting with a mate, some blokes are into it repairing an old harley with a buddy. What used to make you happy?

I'd like to empty a dump truck of optimism and possibility thinking here

Cheers

TantraMantra · July 13, 2012

Re: Choosing carefully. Point taken ... point made many times, point was in fact taken the first time! Input is good variation on a theme is even better.

Now ... ice shower .... ok

Let's all go back a few years. Remember your first few years at school. Remember playing marbles? How well did you know the other kids? Did you have to fill out a form to get admitted to the game? I reckon we (and I exclude me) get a bit precious about both our marbles and who we play the game with.

I did ed at uni and was a teacher for 8 years. Other teachers would be very quick to pass on stories about how bad this one behaved ... how this other one was a nuisance. I gave em all a fresh slate and tried to dismiss the judgements of others. Here's my tuppence worth. 1, People respond differently to different people, I probably bring out the worst in many people - some might endure me, the minority would find me acceptable company. My perspective is that apart from getting people to sign agreement to some basic tennants = like nothing illegal, nothing that impinges on another's reasonable rights and your continued participation must have majority acceptance .. (hey I don't want to write a rule book here), but I just don't think you, dear reader, ( as being an example of the populace) are really so bad! And if you are going to say "others" can't be trusted or some such - then you give them the right to say that about you.

Most blokes are decent people.

Now lets commune the *&^ out of here and use a better description - RETIREMENT VILLAGE. Oooooh how NORMAL. A bit boring even. All old people? well how many 20 somethings might be attracted to such a place? Of course it is going to be populated with old farts like me, and my missus. And maybe you.

Some genuine dude suggested 5 rai each and scatter to the 4 winds .... sorry not on my watch. Check out my purposes, and consider your own. Why would anyone choose to live in a group environment like a hermit? Consider, no roads, ZERO traffic. 2 person wide walking paths, easy access to the various great scenes like a FREE RESTAURANT, like a wonderful swimming pool that looks a bit like the kinda pond you used to dive for golf balls in to make some pocket money (much much nicer but I'm trying to make a point) Like our own bar with wholesale priced grog. Like a pool table, or Ping Pong joint. Nope. The overall idea is live small, but do it together. Get off ThaiVisa and on with something that resembles life.

I'm suggesting our little sleep shacks are close together but so thickly planted between that each one is invisible to another.. yep it can be done. That we maybe get our breaky or we walk the 30 metres to the restaurant and as we chew on some toast and coffee talk about what we might think about doing today .. or maybe tomorrow - Bill wants a hand to put up his ham radio antenna, and a swim would be good. Yes I am just stupid enough to think that you might be an interesting person - and you could be (almost) anyone.

So far no-one has suggested 70,000 baht will not build you a perfectly acceptable climatically suitable place to lay your head. I'm suggesting that those who want to keep their marbles in their pockets have already lost them (and I mean that both ways). Nothing here needs to be expensive. Hire an excavator for a day, get a pile of concrete blocks, some plastic and a few metres of gravel .... we'll build that pool together and do it all with small change. I'll make a few suggestions about how to get into it financially, and how to get out with a fair truckload of what you put in, maybe all, maybe if we do it well enough and some dude really wants your spot you might even turn a quid?

I note that about 1500 people have visited this discussion. I'd hazard a guess that more than a few are not living the totally together life they'd like to be living. And I reckon the main reason is FEAR - what if it (whatever IT is) doesn't work out. Its easier to do as another poster said happened in his moo baan - "drinking, gossiping and fighting". What about working out how we'll set up a "something or other" over a beer, what about trying to work out how they make that french "fois gras" by force feeding ducks .... anybody wanna discuss using the tree load of mulberries to make some wine? Cmon, us blokes love to do stuff .... I'm never happier than when I'm doing something slightly useful like painting with a mate, some blokes are into it repairing an old harley with a buddy. What used to make you happy?

I'd like to empty a dump truck of optimism and possibility thinking here

Cheers

You might already sound off putting to some readers. Fois Gras is cruel for start . It's banned in many countries including Germany, Italy, UK and California. Even in France it might be banned soon. This is how they do it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAzrSl0ztsQ

You haven't explained about legal title to constructions or what happens if someone wants out...Are they bought out?

'Sleep shacks' What are they? Bungalows might sound better.

A project like this will often appeal to young people who want to change the world but as you say this one might involve older folk.

As you know older people are often more disagreeable and grumpy and are reclusive for reasons other than because they've lost their marbles.

I respect you for your ambition to do this but it's all quite vague...The Amish are good at this kind of thing though.

I have studied, visited and stayed at communities and ashrams around the world so I've seen what works and what doesn't.

Your ideals sound nice but with respect a bit naive...So I'm out...Not that you'd want me anyway. I enjoy debating too much.

Good luck though..It's an intriguing topic.

vacationman · July 13, 2012

Nice youtube video of local Chiang Mai Bamboo Construction Project.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1AQpSp048g&feature=related

TantraMantra · July 13, 2012

Nice youtube video of local Chiang Mai Bamboo Construction Project.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1AQpSp048g&feature=related

Beautiful constructions and video. I could live in a place like that and build a studio. I wonder what it costs. Any idea? I'll check the website. Thanks for posting.

Grafted · July 13, 2012

Re: TANTAMANTRA ......Thanks for your post though I fail to understand why in the whole universe of topics suggested by this theme, the concept of a "discussion topic" should have you running to post "You might already sound off putting to some readers. Fois Gras is cruel for start . It's banned in many countries including Germany, Italy, UK and California. Even in France it might be banned soon".

To remind our readership and highlight the way a single phrase starts people on a spin here is the original paragraph used to springboard the off topic diversion.

I note that about 1500 people have visited this discussion. I'd hazard a guess that more than a few are not living the totally together life they'd like to be living. And I reckon the main reason is FEAR - what if it (whatever IT is) doesn't work out. Its easier to do as another poster said happened in his moo baan - "drinking, gossiping and fighting". What about working out how we'll set up a "something or other" over a beer, what about trying to work out how they make that french "fois gras" by force feeding ducks .... anybody wanna discuss using the tree load of mulberries to make some wine? Cmon, us blokes love to do stuff .... I'm never happier than when I'm doing something slightly useful like painting with a mate, some blokes are into it repairing an old harley with a buddy. What used to make you happy?

The topic of this paragraph is people getting into conversation, getting back to a spirit of DO SOMETHING, perhaps another person with a set against off gassing could have equally posted against "painting" or another astute observer may have noticed the mention of "Mulberry wine". Horrors! There's an ideal opportunity to rant against the evils of strong drink or perhaps the illegality of producing alcohol, perhaps of the vegetation cruelty of drowning poor mulberries.

I hope this little bit of intended humour gets the message across - please don't side track well intentioned discussion with something way off topic.

Throughout this thread I have been trying to get others to contribute what they would like to see in a Retirees Attempt at Living an Active Lifestyle. Phew what a phrase, it would be almost easier to say commune But... I'm not going to use the C word any longer ... people have already determined my real name is James Grafted Jones - or is it Judas Grafted Iscariot - someone of ill fame destined to bring ruin upon civilised society as a whole.

Thanks to Vacationman and WTK for throwing in a few ideas about building, as another did about Earthbag construction - that's the kind of stuff that constitutes a contribution. More please.

The alliterative reference to "Sleep Shacks" was to meant to highllght the unimportance of individual housing against the backdrop of involved living. It was trying to play down the importance of ones own shelter against the broader notion of community involvement. Most contributors seem to be pursuing the personal perspective (what's in it for me) to the exclusion of the bigger more important issue of how we might live more expansive lives.

Do I sound like an English literature teacher pointing out the meaning of "to be or not to be"? I don't want to that's for sure. I wanted to be a conversation started, not a lecturer.

Tanta Mantra and others are appealing for me to be prescriptive. Please, do want a democratic forum where a diversity of views are exhibited or do you just want someone to posit an idea to use as target practise as you gleefully shoot it down.

C'mon TantaMantra, you've studied groups, let's hear about the positives you have observed in those ashrams and other communities. There must be heaps of inspiring positives you can share.

I WANT to sound naive ... you know I am naive because I've said so much - NOPE. I have appealed to others to hold forth. I confess I have made ground breaking statements like "nothing illegal" ....WOW .....that's earth shatteringly naive. Please don't throw stones, or if you do, please mention the specific target you are aiming for, as in the issue or idea, not the body part! That way you get respect and even admiration for intellectual clarity.

TantraMantra · July 13, 2012

Re: TANTAMANTRA ......Thanks for your post though I fail to understand why in the whole universe of topics suggested by this theme, the concept of a "discussion topic" should have you running to post "You might already sound off putting to some readers. Fois Gras is cruel for start . It's banned in many countries including Germany, Italy, UK and California. Even in France it might be banned soon".

To remind our readership and highlight the way a single phrase starts people on a spin here is the original paragraph used to springboard the off topic diversion.

I note that about 1500 people have visited this discussion. I'd hazard a guess that more than a few are not living the totally together life they'd like to be living. And I reckon the main reason is FEAR - what if it (whatever IT is) doesn't work out. Its easier to do as another poster said happened in his moo baan - "drinking, gossiping and fighting". What about working out how we'll set up a "something or other" over a beer, what about trying to work out how they make that french "fois gras" by force feeding ducks .... anybody wanna discuss using the tree load of mulberries to make some wine? Cmon, us blokes love to do stuff .... I'm never happier than when I'm doing something slightly useful like painting with a mate, some blokes are into it repairing an old harley with a buddy. What used to make you happy?

The topic of this paragraph is people getting into conversation, getting back to a spirit of DO SOMETHING, perhaps another person with a set against off gassing could have equally posted against "painting" or another astute observer may have noticed the mention of "Mulberry wine". Horrors! There's an ideal opportunity to rant against the evils of strong drink or perhaps the illegality of producing alcohol, perhaps of the vegetation cruelty of drowning poor mulberries.

I hope this little bit of intended humour gets the message across - please don't side track well intentioned discussion with something way off topic.

Throughout this thread I have been trying to get others to contribute what they would like to see in a Retirees Attempt at Living an Active Lifestyle. Phew what a phrase, it would be almost easier to say commune But... I'm not going to use the C word any longer ... people have already determined my real name is James Grafted Jones - or is it Judas Grafted Iscariot - someone of ill fame destined to bring ruin upon civilised society as a whole.

Thanks to Vacationman and WTK for throwing in a few ideas about building, as another did about Earthbag construction - that's the kind of stuff that constitutes a contribution. More please.

The alliterative reference to "Sleep Shacks" was to meant to highllght the unimportance of individual housing against the backdrop of involved living. It was trying to play down the importance of ones own shelter against the broader notion of community involvement. Most contributors seem to be pursuing the personal perspective (what's in it for me) to the exclusion of the bigger more important issue of how we might live more expansive lives.

Do I sound like an English literature teacher pointing out the meaning of "to be or not to be"? I don't want to that's for sure. I wanted to be a conversation started, not a lecturer.

Tanta Mantra and others are appealing for me to be prescriptive. Please, do want a democratic forum where a diversity of views are exhibited or do you just want someone to posit an idea to use as target practise as you gleefully shoot it down.

C'mon TantaMantra, you've studied groups, let's hear about the positives you have observed in those ashrams and other communities. There must be heaps of inspiring positives you can share.

I WANT to sound naive ... you know I am naive because I've said so much - NOPE. I have appealed to others to hold forth. I confess I have made ground breaking statements like "nothing illegal" ....WOW .....that's earth shatteringly naive. Please don't throw stones, or if you do, please mention the specific target you are aiming for, as in the issue or idea, not the body part! That way you get respect and even admiration for intellectual clarity.

Point taken. In a long post, some of your points will stick out to certain people and may make them more or less keen about your intentions. Being a vegetarian and concerned about animal rights.your comment about Fois Gras, did touch a nerve. It made me wonder if you intend to rear and slaughter your own livestock on site. Someone else might think you want a commune of Hells Angels 'cos you mention fixing Harleys. We do tend to easily jump to conclusions but as it's an anonymous online forum we say what we think, not always what we mean.

May I ask if you've ever lived a communal situation like the one you hope to develop?

If so you'll know that it's a mix of liked minded people with similar ideologies that makes it work.

Lifestyle, philosophy, diet, religion, art, culture, sex, security, politics and strong leadership might all play a part.

It's the glue that holds it together.

I don't like to mention strong leadership as it sound like as in 'Personality Cult' but it happens to be one of the most important criteria. The most successful communities were started by charismatic leaders.

Someone needs to take charge, lead and inspire. That's why it's difficult to attract and manage older people. Because you can't teach them new tricks. Yes I did say manage...it's important.

So what glue do you have to hold it together?

There must be an ideology. Maybe you should first write the book

On a more practical level. If you manage to find people/partners and they invest $1.000s in building homes and pay for infrastructure. What happens if they later become unhappy or disillusioned and want to leave. Can they they sell their share? How does that work. I doubt if any one will be interested if they risk losing money because they found they didn't get on with the group. People often fall out. Especially as they get closer.

If you really want me to, I'll collect and post some examples of communities that come a little close to what you want to do. If you have any examples please do so as well.

Yes,without going into detail, I do have leadership and management experience of projects like this. Much larger ones. Successful ones. The biggest problem is the People...They disagree about things.

You started off using the word Commune and it stuck and brought up many negative connotations.

We all know communism doesn't work. The worlds greatest Capitalist country is China....not USA.

Retirement isn't good either. I don't think it's what retired people are looking for. If they are, then they may the wrong types and as mentioned earlier, without the energy this requires.

OK that's 10 bahts worth now. Hope I didn't sound negative. Realistic is what I always intend to convey.

Keep on with your dream and it could well happen...but take care as it might turn out the way you wanted it to.

I was going to edit as I meant to say ....Not turn out the way you wanted...but I'll leave it as a good luck Freudian Slip.

in the sky · July 14, 2012

I recomment researching/googling "co-housing", an idea originally from Sweden. There are a number of very successful projects in the US and other countries. The "Commune" word has bad vibes for a lot of "traditionalists".

WinnieTheKhwai · July 14, 2012

Reading recent posts, I wonder if the spartan approach works well for retirees; people who have worked hard their whole lives probably (and rightly) feel they have earned some comforts. Of course one man's slum shack is another man's palace, but indeed the bucket toilet thing seems a bridge too far. (In fairness you indicated right away it could be contentious.)

Many retirees can actually afford quite a bit; while the idea of eco living in breezy, open spaces without aircon could still be appealing, they may at the same time also prefer a proper swimming pool. Of course in a commune there can't be too many different levels of comfort, but it looks like you're shooting for the comfort level of a hilltribe village. I stay in hilltribe villages on occasion and while that's really appealing for a couple days, the basic facilities do get old fast. I also think it will gel with local Thai sensibilities and local government better if it all looks a little bit nicer; many locals will find it strange to see a number of Farangs living in what they would probably perceive as a hilltribe or slum level of living.

Elsewhere it is mentioned that locals would like and respect building in traditional ways; that's probably true if it is genuinely Thai/Northern style and is done to a high standard, or opulence even. Earth bag building or most other eco-styles are really not traditional Northern building styles. (Possible exception for bamboo, but those would be considered temporary structures/shelters) Speaking of Lampang, this house is currently in the process of being built, and represents a local style very well, without being opulent:

(The contentious element here is using metal siding for the downstairs walls; normally they'd brick it in and then render in cement, or leave it open. (I would personally lean to leaving it open, or have something that can open all the way.)

Anyway, that is traditional local style; elevated main living/sleeping area on wooden or concrete posts, with the upstairs in wood, and a semi-outdoors living space downstairs and around.

binjalin · July 14, 2012

Reading recent posts, I wonder if the spartan approach works well for retirees; people who have worked hard their whole lives probably (and rightly) feel they have earned some comforts. Of course one man's slum shack is another man's palace, but indeed the bucket toilet thing seems a bridge too far. (In fairness you indicated right away it could be contentious.)

Many retirees can actually afford quite a bit; while the idea of eco living in breezy, open spaces without aircon could still be appealing, they may at the same time also prefer a proper swimming pool. Of course in a commune there can't be too many different levels of comfort, but it looks like you're shooting for the comfort level of a hilltribe village. I stay in hilltribe villages on occasion and while that's really appealing for a couple days, the basic facilities do get old fast. I also think it will gel with local Thai sensibilities and local government better if it all looks a little bit nicer; many locals will find it strange to see a number of Farangs living in what they would probably perceive as a hilltribe or slum level of living.

Elsewhere it is mentioned that locals would like and respect building in traditional ways; that's probably true if it is genuinely Thai/Northern style and is done to a high standard, or opulence even. Earth bag building or most other eco-styles are really not traditional Northern building styles. (Possible exception for bamboo, but those would be considered temporary structures/shelters) Speaking of Lampang, this house is currently in the process of being built, and represents a local style very well, without being opulent:

(The contentious element here is using metal siding for the downstairs walls; normally they'd brick it in and then render in cement, or leave it open. (I would personally lean to leaving it open, or have something that can open all the way.)

Anyway, that is traditional local style; elevated main living/sleeping area on wooden or concrete posts, with the upstairs in wood, and a semi-outdoors living space downstairs and around.

good post - I couldn't do it but would speak up for anyone who wanted to. Why not? being happy is important

vacationman · July 14, 2012

Re: TANTAMANTRA ......Thanks for your post though I fail to understand why in the whole universe of topics suggested by this theme, the concept of a "discussion topic" should have you running to post "You might already sound off putting to some readers. Fois Gras is cruel for start . It's banned in many countries including Germany, Italy, UK and California. Even in France it might be banned soon".

To remind our readership and highlight the way a single phrase starts people on a spin here is the original paragraph used to springboard the off topic diversion.

I note that about 1500 people have visited this discussion. I'd hazard a guess that more than a few are not living the totally together life they'd like to be living. And I reckon the main reason is FEAR - what if it (whatever IT is) doesn't work out. Its easier to do as another poster said happened in his moo baan - "drinking, gossiping and fighting". What about working out how we'll set up a "something or other" over a beer, what about trying to work out how they make that french "fois gras" by force feeding ducks .... anybody wanna discuss using the tree load of mulberries to make some wine? Cmon, us blokes love to do stuff .... I'm never happier than when I'm doing something slightly useful like painting with a mate, some blokes are into it repairing an old harley with a buddy. What used to make you happy?

The topic of this paragraph is people getting into conversation, getting back to a spirit of DO SOMETHING, perhaps another person with a set against off gassing could have equally posted against "painting" or another astute observer may have noticed the mention of "Mulberry wine". Horrors! There's an ideal opportunity to rant against the evils of strong drink or perhaps the illegality of producing alcohol, perhaps of the vegetation cruelty of drowning poor mulberries.

I hope this little bit of intended humour gets the message across - please don't side track well intentioned discussion with something way off topic.

Throughout this thread I have been trying to get others to contribute what they would like to see in a Retirees Attempt at Living an Active Lifestyle. Phew what a phrase, it would be almost easier to say commune But... I'm not going to use the C word any longer ... people have already determined my real name is James Grafted Jones - or is it Judas Grafted Iscariot - someone of ill fame destined to bring ruin upon civilised society as a whole.

Thanks to Vacationman and WTK for throwing in a few ideas about building, as another did about Earthbag construction - that's the kind of stuff that constitutes a contribution. More please.

The alliterative reference to "Sleep Shacks" was to meant to highllght the unimportance of individual housing against the backdrop of involved living. It was trying to play down the importance of ones own shelter against the broader notion of community involvement. Most contributors seem to be pursuing the personal perspective (what's in it for me) to the exclusion of the bigger more important issue of how we might live more expansive lives.

Do I sound like an English literature teacher pointing out the meaning of "to be or not to be"? I don't want to that's for sure. I wanted to be a conversation started, not a lecturer.

Tanta Mantra and others are appealing for me to be prescriptive. Please, do want a democratic forum where a diversity of views are exhibited or do you just want someone to posit an idea to use as target practise as you gleefully shoot it down.

C'mon TantaMantra, you've studied groups, let's hear about the positives you have observed in those ashrams and other communities. There must be heaps of inspiring positives you can share.

I WANT to sound naive ... you know I am naive because I've said so much - NOPE. I have appealed to others to hold forth. I confess I have made ground breaking statements like "nothing illegal" ....WOW .....that's earth shatteringly naive. Please don't throw stones, or if you do, please mention the specific target you are aiming for, as in the issue or idea, not the body part! That way you get respect and even admiration for intellectual clarity.

Point taken. In a long post, some of your points will stick out to certain people and may make them more or less keen about your intentions. Being a vegetarian and concerned about animal rights.your comment about Fois Gras, did touch a nerve. It made me wonder if you intend to rear and slaughter your own livestock on site. Someone else might think you want a commune of Hells Angels 'cos you mention fixing Harleys. We do tend to easily jump to conclusions but as it's an anonymous online forum we say what we think, not always what we mean.

May I ask if you've ever lived a communal situation like the one you hope to develop?

If so you'll know that it's a mix of liked minded people with similar ideologies that makes it work.

Lifestyle, philosophy, diet, religion, art, culture, sex, security, politics and strong leadership might all play a part.

It's the glue that holds it together.

I don't like to mention strong leadership as it sound like as in 'Personality Cult' but it happens to be one of the most important criteria. The most successful communities were started by charismatic leaders.

Someone needs to take charge, lead and inspire. That's why it's difficult to attract and manage older people. Because you can't teach them new tricks. Yes I did say manage...it's important.

So what glue do you have to hold it together?

There must be an ideology. Maybe you should first write the book

On a more practical level. If you manage to find people/partners and they invest $1.000s in building homes and pay for infrastructure. What happens if they later become unhappy or disillusioned and want to leave. Can they they sell their share? How does that work. I doubt if any one will be interested if they risk losing money because they found they didn't get on with the group. People often fall out. Especially as they get closer.

If you really want me to, I'll collect and post some examples of communities that come a little close to what you want to do. If you have any examples please do so as well.

Yes,without going into detail, I do have leadership and management experience of projects like this. Much larger ones. Successful ones. The biggest problem is the People...They disagree about things.

You started off using the word Commune and it stuck and brought up many negative connotations.

We all know communism doesn't work. The worlds greatest Capitalist country is China....not USA.

Retirement isn't good either. I don't think it's what retired people are looking for. If they are, then they may the wrong types and as mentioned earlier, without the energy this requires.

OK that's 10 bahts worth now. Hope I didn't sound negative. Realistic is what I always intend to convey.

Keep on with your dream and it could well happen...but take care as it might turn out the way you wanted it to.

I was going to edit as I meant to say ....Not turn out the way you wanted...but I'll leave it as a good luck Freudian Slip.

Hello Tantra,

I agree with your above statements.

I've lived in many Clothing Optional Resorts.

The many different views of people seems to always be the hardest thing.

It's easy to build a hut to live in, much harder to have everyone living in peace and harmony, even when you have

a close idea of something in common.

hellodolly · July 14, 2012

Grafted

TantaraMantra

WTK

You have all brought up interesting points. The one thing that is coming loud and clear to me is for a middle age person up to 60 and in many cases beyond it might be impractical. The reason I say that is because even at the age of 60 I would have been seriously interested and that was after I had my accident that leaves me with a certain amount of loss of abilities.

Now at age 70 I have other things that are wrong and am developing different interests to fill my time. Please do not mistakenly think I am helpless. Would love to spend a couple of days in a mountain tribe village. Probably uncomfortable but a experience well worth it. The idea of a open house with no privacy does not appeal to me and in all honesty never did. I liked the last home WTK showed and for myself would want to leave the bottom open. With a raised house like that I would have more privacy and maybe leave more room for window that can be opened.

At any rate I digress. What I see here is a series of good ideas even if they re opposite each other. But I still feel the influence of some of the communes in the 60s here and in my honest opinion would be out of the question for some of us older people and some of the 60 up crowd might find them selves with different goals in the not to far distant future. What would they be able to do to recoup there original investment.

In short keep trading ideas for a few more weeks then two or three people sit down and decide what it is you really want to do and how to implement this idea. Also do not make it a rigid policy human nature does not adapt well to that. Call it what you may but there would have t be at least one person with some kind of say so or you would have anarchy.

The reason for editing is my origanal post said

god ideas

edited to

good ideas

Now you see what old age can do to one (- or is it -) o well LOL

TantraMantra · July 14, 2012

Re: TANTAMANTRA ......Thanks for your post though I fail to understand why in the whole universe of topics suggested by this theme, the concept of a "discussion topic" should have you running to post "You might already sound off putting to some readers. Fois Gras is cruel for start . It's banned in many countries including Germany, Italy, UK and California. Even in France it might be banned soon".

To remind our readership and highlight the way a single phrase starts people on a spin here is the original paragraph used to springboard the off topic diversion.

I note that about 1500 people have visited this discussion. I'd hazard a guess that more than a few are not living the totally together life they'd like to be living. And I reckon the main reason is FEAR - what if it (whatever IT is) doesn't work out. Its easier to do as another poster said happened in his moo baan - "drinking, gossiping and fighting". What about working out how we'll set up a "something or other" over a beer, what about trying to work out how they make that french "fois gras" by force feeding ducks .... anybody wanna discuss using the tree load of mulberries to make some wine? Cmon, us blokes love to do stuff .... I'm never happier than when I'm doing something slightly useful like painting with a mate, some blokes are into it repairing an old harley with a buddy. What used to make you happy?

The topic of this paragraph is people getting into conversation, getting back to a spirit of DO SOMETHING, perhaps another person with a set against off gassing could have equally posted against "painting" or another astute observer may have noticed the mention of "Mulberry wine". Horrors! There's an ideal opportunity to rant against the evils of strong drink or perhaps the illegality of producing alcohol, perhaps of the vegetation cruelty of drowning poor mulberries.

I hope this little bit of intended humour gets the message across - please don't side track well intentioned discussion with something way off topic.

Throughout this thread I have been trying to get others to contribute what they would like to see in a Retirees Attempt at Living an Active Lifestyle. Phew what a phrase, it would be almost easier to say commune But... I'm not going to use the C word any longer ... people have already determined my real name is James Grafted Jones - or is it Judas Grafted Iscariot - someone of ill fame destined to bring ruin upon civilised society as a whole.

Thanks to Vacationman and WTK for throwing in a few ideas about building, as another did about Earthbag construction - that's the kind of stuff that constitutes a contribution. More please.

The alliterative reference to "Sleep Shacks" was to meant to highllght the unimportance of individual housing against the backdrop of involved living. It was trying to play down the importance of ones own shelter against the broader notion of community involvement. Most contributors seem to be pursuing the personal perspective (what's in it for me) to the exclusion of the bigger more important issue of how we might live more expansive lives.

Do I sound like an English literature teacher pointing out the meaning of "to be or not to be"? I don't want to that's for sure. I wanted to be a conversation started, not a lecturer.

Tanta Mantra and others are appealing for me to be prescriptive. Please, do want a democratic forum where a diversity of views are exhibited or do you just want someone to posit an idea to use as target practise as you gleefully shoot it down.

C'mon TantaMantra, you've studied groups, let's hear about the positives you have observed in those ashrams and other communities. There must be heaps of inspiring positives you can share.

I WANT to sound naive ... you know I am naive because I've said so much - NOPE. I have appealed to others to hold forth. I confess I have made ground breaking statements like "nothing illegal" ....WOW .....that's earth shatteringly naive. Please don't throw stones, or if you do, please mention the specific target you are aiming for, as in the issue or idea, not the body part! That way you get respect and even admiration for intellectual clarity.

Point taken. In a long post, some of your points will stick out to certain people and may make them more or less keen about your intentions. Being a vegetarian and concerned about animal rights.your comment about Fois Gras, did touch a nerve. It made me wonder if you intend to rear and slaughter your own livestock on site. Someone else might think you want a commune of Hells Angels 'cos you mention fixing Harleys. We do tend to easily jump to conclusions but as it's an anonymous online forum we say what we think, not always what we mean.

May I ask if you've ever lived a communal situation like the one you hope to develop?

If so you'll know that it's a mix of liked minded people with similar ideologies that makes it work.

Lifestyle, philosophy, diet, religion, art, culture, sex, security, politics and strong leadership might all play a part.

It's the glue that holds it together.

I don't like to mention strong leadership as it sound like as in 'Personality Cult' but it happens to be one of the most important criteria. The most successful communities were started by charismatic leaders.

Someone needs to take charge, lead and inspire. That's why it's difficult to attract and manage older people. Because you can't teach them new tricks. Yes I did say manage...it's important.

So what glue do you have to hold it together?

There must be an ideology. Maybe you should first write the book

On a more practical level. If you manage to find people/partners and they invest $1.000s in building homes and pay for infrastructure. What happens if they later become unhappy or disillusioned and want to leave. Can they they sell their share? How does that work. I doubt if any one will be interested if they risk losing money because they found they didn't get on with the group. People often fall out. Especially as they get closer.

If you really want me to, I'll collect and post some examples of communities that come a little close to what you want to do. If you have any examples please do so as well.

Yes,without going into detail, I do have leadership and management experience of projects like this. Much larger ones. Successful ones. The biggest problem is the People...They disagree about things.

You started off using the word Commune and it stuck and brought up many negative connotations.

We all know communism doesn't work. The worlds greatest Capitalist country is China....not USA.

Retirement isn't good either. I don't think it's what retired people are looking for. If they are, then they may the wrong types and as mentioned earlier, without the energy this requires.

OK that's 10 bahts worth now. Hope I didn't sound negative. Realistic is what I always intend to convey.

Keep on with your dream and it could well happen...but take care as it might turn out the way you wanted it to.

I was going to edit as I meant to say ....Not turn out the way you wanted...but I'll leave it as a good luck Freudian Slip.

Hello Tantra,

I agree with your above statements.

I've lived in many Clothing Optional Resorts.

The many different views of people seems to always be the hardest thing.

It's easy to build a hut to live in, much harder to have everyone living in peace and harmony, even when you have

a close idea of something in common.

Well in a Clothing Optional Resort......It's probably best if that is the hardest thing...... Sorry I couldn't resist it.

Thanks for your agreement...

vacationman · July 14, 2012

OK here is my 2 cents worth... NOT wanting to take away from the OP but he asked for ideas and here is what I would envision with something like is being discussed.

Not quite as living in Nature as the OP, but I like my Western Bathrooms and Hot Showers, lol.

This idea even comes with a NO COST way of living for the original co-op members... see below.

Chiang Mai Freedom Park – is an Adults Only Clothing Optional Co-Op of private members living in a peaceful and relaxed area surrounded by nature.

Freedom Park has 20 living areas ranging from 40 SQM (approx. 15’ x 30’) to 80 SQM (approx.. 15’ x 60’).

Each member is responsible for the interior design of their living areas to meet their personal needs and likes.

Each member is responsible for electric, water, internet and cable in their private living areas. Cost of the above items are at actual real government rates.

All common area costs are shared between members.

Common areas include:

5 m x 10 m pool for recreation such as water volleyball and conversation pool.
5 m x 20 m lap pool for swimming and exercise.
Relaxing Waterfalls flowing into swimming pools.
Hot Water Jacuzzi
Cold Water Jacuzzi
Horse Shoe Pit
Petanque Field
BBQ Area
Weight Room
Sanna
Steam Room
Massage Room
Common Area and Kitchen
Garden Area for the ones that like to raise some fruits and veggies.

As a way to offer NO COST LIVING to the 20 original members if agreed upon… would be to have 20 additional living spaces that would be rented out on a daily bases with all profits going back into reducing the monthly living costs of the 20 co-op owners and paying back their original investments into the co-op.

At a rate of 1,000 – 2,000 baht per day each unit could produce an income of 15,000 – 30,000 per month if rented out 15 days per month.

20 units rented out at 15 days per month would be 300,000 – 600,000 per month in net income. ((Assuming 50% occupancy rates per month)).

Any profits realized from renting out units and day fees would be split evenly between the 20 co-op owners each month or each year as agreed upon by the members.

ATTACHED:

Quick draw and layout of living and pool areas.

The 10 living areas on the left are approx. 40 SQM (15’ x 30’) with a 10 feet porch added.

The 10 living areas on the left are approx. 80 SQM (15’ x 60’) with a 10 feet porch added.

The lower left you see the Steam Room and Sanna.

The lower middle is the common area and kitchen.

The lower right is the exercise room / Weight Room and Massage Room.

In the middle you have the Conversation and Recreation Pool (Volleyball) and the Lap Pool.

In the middle below the conversation pool is the HOT and COLD Water Jaccuzzi’s.

The GREEN area would be grass, Palm Tree’s and greenery plants.

Haven’t gotten around to laying out the Volleyball court, Horseshoe Pits, Petanque Field / Court, BBQ Pit and Nature Trail areas.

These would all be located outside the main living and pool areas.

Well there are my thoughts on living as a family of expats from all over the world.

TantraMantra · July 14, 2012

Grafted

TantaraMantra

WTK

You have all brought up interesting points. The one thing that is coming loud and clear to me is for a middle age person up to 60 and in many cases beyond it might be impractical. The reason I say that is because even at the age of 60 I would have been seriously interested and that was after I had my accident that leaves me with a certain amount of loss of abilities.

Now at age 70 I have other things that are wrong and am developing different interests to fill my time. Please do not mistakenly think I am helpless. Would love to spend a couple of days in a mountain tribe village. Probably uncomfortable but a experience well worth it. The idea of a open house with no privacy does not appeal to me and in all honesty never did. I liked the last home WTK showed and for myself would want to leave the bottom open. With a raised house like that I would have more privacy and maybe leave more room for window that can be opened.

At any rate I digress. What I see here is a series of good ideas even if they re opposite each other. But I still feel the influence of some of the communes in the 60s here and in my honest opinion would be out of the question for some of us older people and some of the 60 up crowd might find them selves with different goals in the not to far distant future. What would they be able to do to recoup there original investment.

In short keep trading ideas for a few more weeks then two or three people sit down and decide what it is you really want to do and how to implement this idea. Also do not make it a rigid policy human nature does not adapt well to that. Call it what you may but there would have t be at least one person with some kind of say so or you would have anarchy.

The reason for editing is my origanal post said

god ideas

edited to

good ideas

Now you see what old age can do to one (- or is it -) o well LOL

Maybe a Freudian Slip

HelloDolly you may be older and not as active as you were but from your posts we can tell your mind is Fresh and Youthful.

Proof that though our bodies age, our mind and spirit stays young. In traditional SE Asian culture older people are highly respected in society. They have wisdom and knowledge. Partly because life had been much the same for 1,000s of years.

Of course due to modern technology, life has changed a lot now. School kids often have more knowledge than we do, so they're less respectful.

You always have something intelligent to say Dolly...thanks for your in put.

jaideeguy · July 14, 2012

"If so you'll know that it's a mix of liked minded people with similar ideologies that makes it work.

Lifestyle, philosophy, diet, religion, art, culture, sex, security, politics and strong leadership might all play a part.

It's the glue that holds it together."

Agree 100%, but finding people with similar ideologies among a bunch of over the hill expats that have dropped out of their own culture for various reasons might be the biggest challenge. I find that as we age, we don't adapt to new situations and Ideologies as when we were younger and more flexible and open minded.

And then later in your post, you suggested 'leader' and 'management'......both of those words give me the shivers as I'm sure that most of us agree and won't accept being managed at our ages.....assuming that most TV members are over 50yrs.

Maybe a more acceptable and free approach would be to call the concept a 'community' and 5 parties join funds and purchase a 30 rai parcel of rice land, no more than a half hr from the city.....most of us will need access to the city, especially as we age, shopping, medical etc.

30rai of accessible rice land can be bought for under 200/rai in the Doi Saket area. Then, hire some heavy earth moving equipment and dig a 4 mtr moat around the 30 rai and could even dig smaller boundary canals to give tennants privacy,security and as a reservoir/fish pond.........then, the diggings could be used for land fill. Then divide the land into 6 parcels.....reserving one 5 rai parcel for communal projects like water tower, shop space and recreation area, garden space and/or a forest park that would be available to the other 5 owners/tennants

The remaining 5 rai parcels would be divided and titled and owners would be free to do what they want with it as long as it doesn't disturb neighbors. Agree to NO karaokes, discos, pig or chicken farms, industrial parks or other NO's and get it on legal paper.

I find that the older I get, the more privacy and space I require.

I might be open to that kind of community....if I could sell my real estate that I already own here.

good luck and let me know if you or anyone else might be interested in a community like I described above

TantraMantra · July 14, 2012

OK here is my 2 cents worth... NOT wanting to take away from the OP but he asked for ideas and here is what I would envision with something like is being discussed.

Not quite as living in Nature as the OP, but I like my Western Bathrooms and Hot Showers, lol.

This idea even comes with a NO COST way of living for the original co-op members... see below.

Chiang Mai Freedom Park – is an Adults Only Clothing Optional Co-Op of private members living in a peaceful and relaxed area surrounded by nature.

Freedom Park has 20 living areas ranging from 40 SQM (approx. 15’ x 30’) to 80 SQM (approx.. 15’ x 60’).

Each member is responsible for the interior design of their living areas to meet their personal needs and likes.

Each member is responsible for electric, water, internet and cable in their private living areas. Cost of the above items are at actual real government rates.

All common area costs are shared between members.

Common areas include:

5 m x 10 m pool for recreation such as water volleyball and conversation pool.

5 m x 20 m lap pool for swimming and exercise.

Relaxing Waterfalls flowing into swimming pools.

Hot Water Jacuzzi

Cold Water Jacuzzi

Horse Shoe Pit

Petanque Field

BBQ Area

Weight Room

Sanna

Steam Room

Massage Room

Common Area and Kitchen

Garden Area for the ones that like to raise some fruits and veggies.

As a way to offer NO COST LIVING to the 20 original members if agreed upon… would be to have 20 additional living spaces that would be rented out on a daily bases with all profits going back into reducing the monthly living costs of the 20 co-op owners and paying back their original investments into the co-op.

At a rate of 1,000 – 2,000 baht per day each unit could produce an income of 15,000 – 30,000 per month if rented out 15 days per month.

20 units rented out at 15 days per month would be 300,000 – 600,000 per month in net income. ((Assuming 50% occupancy rates per month)).

Any profits realized from renting out units and day fees would be split evenly between the 20 co-op owners each month or each year as agreed upon by the members.

ATTACHED:

Quick draw and layout of living and pool areas.

The 10 living areas on the left are approx. 40 SQM (15’ x 30’) with a 10 feet porch added.

The 10 living areas on the left are approx. 80 SQM (15’ x 60’) with a 10 feet porch added.

The lower left you see the Steam Room and Sanna.

The lower middle is the common area and kitchen.

The lower right is the exercise room / Weight Room and Massage Room.

In the middle you have the Conversation and Recreation Pool (Volleyball) and the Lap Pool.

In the middle below the conversation pool is the HOT and COLD Water Jaccuzzi’s.

The GREEN area would be grass, Palm Tree’s and greenery plants.

Haven’t gotten around to laying out the Volleyball court, Horseshoe Pits, Petanque Field / Court, BBQ Pit and Nature Trail areas.

These would all be located outside the main living and pool areas.

Well there are my thoughts on living as a family of expats from all over the world.

That's a brilliant, well thought out plan. Just add clothes I suppose. The OP needs to present something like this to make it sound more credible. Is this project going to get under way and/or do you have any idea of the costs involved?

The plans look a bit Barracks like though. More design is needed to make it look like a Garden of Eden.

The concept is really good. We need Winnie to take a look.

hellodolly · July 14, 2012

Grafted

TantaraMantra

WTK

You have all brought up interesting points. The one thing that is coming loud and clear to me is for a middle age person up to 60 and in many cases beyond it might be impractical. The reason I say that is because even at the age of 60 I would have been seriously interested and that was after I had my accident that leaves me with a certain amount of loss of abilities.

Now at age 70 I have other things that are wrong and am developing different interests to fill my time. Please do not mistakenly think I am helpless. Would love to spend a couple of days in a mountain tribe village. Probably uncomfortable but a experience well worth it. The idea of a open house with no privacy does not appeal to me and in all honesty never did. I liked the last home WTK showed and for myself would want to leave the bottom open. With a raised house like that I would have more privacy and maybe leave more room for window that can be opened.

At any rate I digress. What I see here is a series of good ideas even if they re opposite each other. But I still feel the influence of some of the communes in the 60s here and in my honest opinion would be out of the question for some of us older people and some of the 60 up crowd might find them selves with different goals in the not to far distant future. What would they be able to do to recoup there original investment.

In short keep trading ideas for a few more weeks then two or three people sit down and decide what it is you really want to do and how to implement this idea. Also do not make it a rigid policy human nature does not adapt well to that. Call it what you may but there would have t be at least one person with some kind of say so or you would have anarchy.

The reason for editing is my origanal post said

god ideas

edited to

good ideas

Now you see what old age can do to one (- or is it -) o well LOL

Maybe a Freudian Slip

HelloDolly you may be older and not as active as you were but from your posts we can tell your mind is Fresh and Youthful.

Proof that though our bodies age, our mind and spirit stays young. In traditional SE Asian culture older people are highly respected in society. They have wisdom and knowledge. Partly because life had been much the same for 1,000s of years.

Of course due to modern technology, life has changed a lot now. School kids often have more knowledge than we do, so they're less respectful.

You always have something intelligent to say Dolly...thanks for your in put.

Thank you for your kind words.

Yes my body is old but my young mind keeps trying to deny it. Seems like no matter what I do the body wins the argument.

As for a fresh mind that is what I am working very hard at. I see that as a really desirable quality. That was not always the case with me. I would have never considered any of the suggestions being offered on this board. I now see the practicality of a lot of the comments and realize that it might not be for me but there is nothing wrong with it.

It is obvious that the basic idea is a very good one. The main problem is that there are to many ways to implement it. And some are really good but they will require a select few. Some leave room for at a guess 200

One plan runs from open to all living and at the the other end of the spectrum we have a good plan for people with a reclusive attitude. And many good ideas in between. Also at both ends.

The only idea I don't like is the clothing optional. Not interested in seeing a 90 year old lady or man for that mater running hobbling around nude.

FolkGuitar · July 14, 2012

Having lived in a well functioning commune in California in the late 60's-early 70's, I'd ask how you would deal with a founding member who turns into the focal point of contention for most of the other members. There was one couple in our commune that caused massive discomfort and disharmony throughout the group, and refused to leave when all the other members requested them to do so. An attempt at 'shunning' just created more bad vibes...

vacationman · July 14, 2012

Having lived in a well functioning commune in California in the late 60's-early 70's, I'd ask how you would deal with a founding member who turns into the focal point of contention for most of the other members. There was one couple in our commune that caused massive discomfort and disharmony throughout the group, and refused to leave when all the other members requested them to do so. An attempt at 'shunning' just created more bad vibes...

Well I guess you could always spray for bed bugs....

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