Corruption In Thailand Worsens Over First Six Months: Survey

[Unkomoncents]

Then I know Chaengwattana government office, I've been there a couple of time for different reason. I found the people there quite courteous and efficient and never, at any time, I was asked for tea money. It seems to me the only service the "Chinese" (??) agency you hired provides is extorting money from gullible foreigners.

What's confusing about a Chinese immigration agency (owned and run by Mandarin-speaking people)? I'm confused by your confusion. Actually, the agency was fantastic. I didn't have to wait in any lines and I was served in less than half an hour. The best part though was that most people have to sit in a bunch of chairs until their number is called. My wife and I were seated at one of the empty desks behind the immigration officers so I was able to watch how both officers keep the top drawer closest to the walkway open so that agents can quietly and discreetly put money into the desks to expedite their cases. All the paperwork was done by them and I didn't have to pay off anyone (except the agency, of course). I get a kick out of how there are no cameras in the immigration section but elsewhere in the building cameras are ubiquitous.

I agree about the Excise and Customs Department. I have a couple of anecdotes about those folks but I'll save those for another time.

[whybother]

well as one poster mentioned, the index is "better" than when they took office and as another mentioned, the index cannot be compared over time.

Very useful index.

Guess that makes the premise of the OP BS...

The OP isn't using the Corruption Index.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Maestro
Deleted nonsensical part of post.

[phiphidon]

The Anti-corruption Network seems well established and respected. On 2012-01-31

"The network requested the government to agree with the National Anti-Corruption Commission's proposal that government units disclose the operating costs of their projects through an electronic database so that the public can examine."

http://thainews.prd....id=255501310028

"2012-04-20

Pramon Sutivong, chairman of the Anti-Corruption Network (ACN) said the network has asked the government to show details of the budget disbursement for a while, but the government only gives a website, which needs a password to enter. The ACN is, therefore, asking the government to show sincerity and transparency in disbursing the fund."

http://thailandtimes...-relief-budget/

"2012-06-08

An anti-corruption group, which recently staged a hunger strike to protest against the expulsion of poor students from Bodindecha School, yesterday lodged a petition with a special House panel accusing this and 14 other schools of being corrupt in many procurement deals.

http://www.nationmul...t-30183728.html

BTW it seems that in an obscure corner of the Transparency International website there is this disclamer:

"The index is based on rankings of countries/territories calculated using a changing set of source surveys. The CPI is therefore not the appropriate tool for comparisons over time"

For those young enough join the Thai Youth Anti-Corruption Network, The Thai Youth Anti-Corruption Network, sponsored by UNDP Thailand and over 15 universities across Thailand, was founded to erase corruption in Thai society through the empowerment of young people.

http://es-la.faceboo...PAntiCorruption moving to http://www.facebook....YAnticorruption first of August

Good cut and paste job, but did you actually have an opinion on what you've posted / pasted?

[PalleBo]

It is unbelievable that the corrupt people cannot see how much they damage Thailand!!

The figures mentioned are only if you offer something public, what about all the other corrupt people? The total amount is enormous, and think about what could be done for the old and sick people, the children, how many hospitals can be build, how many new schools can be build.

Every day in the news we look the poor and sick and paralyzed people who do not have anything and nobody can help!!!

All the corrupt people should be a shame, stop it and support a real democracy only in that way you can build a strong Thailand to benefit of the entire Thai population

[rubl]

The Anti-corruption Network seems well established and respected.

http://thainews.prd....id=255501310028

http://thailandtimes...-relief-budget/

http://www.nationmul...t-30183728.html

http://es-la.faceboo...PAntiCorruption moving to http://www.facebook....YAnticorruption first of August

Good cut and paste job, but did you actually have an opinion on what you've posted / pasted?

Short answer: yes! Longer answer:

Having read some of the earlier posts and having a member questioning who the ACN was / represented I just did some searching myself and presented for others my results. Similar to your cut&paste stuff.

This ACN repesenting various Anti-Corruption groups seems on the right track. A pity we didn't have this before, but better late than never, wouldn't you say? Of course it would be nice if this ACN had more power, but still they write to the PM, they probably meet with the Ombudsman and in general may help to make people much more aware of the damage corruption does to the country. 30% of a budget on bribes is an awfull lot of taxmoney which could have been spent on long-term beneficial projects, educate kids and their elders, teach about self-entitlement, responsability and above all accountability.

BTW your post has been filed and not only can, but most likely will be used against you. Why condemn a man, let his words and actions do that for him

Edited July 18, 2012 by rubl

[rubl]

Isn't it remarkable how some people have studiously avoided this topic like the plague. MIA?

Assuming this remark is on topic, I also wonder why no more people in Government, police, etc. jump on the crackdown of corruption. surely there must be lots of money to be made out of it

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed. This is not about corruption in the UK.

[EmptyBasementBin]

Corruption In Thailand Worsens Over First Six Months: Survey

Surveyor's envelope was late.

[GentlemanJim]

280 billion in corruption payments, stolen from Government money, paid to Government MP's and their cronies, yet 2 billion to address the heart of the nation, - it's constitution, is too expensive!! Miracle Thailand.

If the study is correct then it is about time somebody grew a pair here and got all the 85% of companies claiming payments of tea money had to be made up to 35% of budget to name in detail, every transaction and to whom. If that were done, then the target of wiping out corruption in x number of months would likely be almost met.

[rbrooks]

Nothing new in Thailand or most parts of the world especially if it is controlled and accepted.

[KKvampire]

The position of Thais with regard to money making and corruption is "I dont want to try and end it I want to be in on it"

At least under Abhisit and the minority government he made some effort to fight "corruption" within government, The present shower positively thrives on it as evidence of this year has shown.

Edited July 18, 2012 by KKvampire

[metisdead]

Nonsense posts have been removed.

[lungmi]

The discussion about corruption in the forum is ok. Surface structure.

The deep structure is neglected. OK.

I'm a lonely wulf.

[Spalpeen]

Quote from the OP : "Worsening graft could damage foreign investors confidence and Thailand's competitiveness against other countries, she warned".

Which makes it relevant to comment on the relative prevalence of corruption in Thailand and other countries.

[Baerboxer]

First I would like to know who is this Anti-Corruption Network, who is behind ? As far as I know it's just one of these many "independent" group that has been created by the PAD to annoy the government. If I'm wrong, don't hesitate to correct me.

Then, 30% for a government contract is nothing new. A study in Great Britain showed that civil servants are among the most corrupted people in the world. It's true in Thailand, but it's also true in GB and any other western countries. Here I should remind people that government employees in their big majority support the democrats .

Finally to know how corruption is evolving, I'll wait for internationally recognized organization to publish their finding. Here again I should remind the people that previous records showed that things were going noticeably better during Thaksin administration.

As nice a selection of casual lies, implied linkages and unsupported BS as I have read in a long while.

Couldn't agree more with you OzMick! Does he really believe the Thaksin administration were cleaning up corruption................ oh yes, they were "cleaning up" all right !!

[Baerboxer]

First I would like to know who is this Anti-Corruption Network, who is behind ? As far as I know it's just one of these many "independent" group that has been created by the PAD to annoy the government. If I'm wrong, don't hesitate to correct me.

Then, 30% for a government contract is nothing new. A study in Great Britain showed that civil servants are among the most corrupted people in the world. It's true in Thailand, but it's also true in GB and any other western countries. Here I should remind people that government employees in their big majority support the democrats .

Finally to know how corruption is evolving, I'll wait for internationally recognized organization to publish their finding. Here again I should remind the people that previous records showed that things were going noticeably better during Thaksin administration.

I used to work as a Civil Servant in the UK.

Some of my work involved Govt tenders. In my experience there was absolutely no backhanders involved. It just didn't exist so I would be very interested to see your evidence rhat I was part of some civil service mafia.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

There have been many instances of public sector procurement officials in the US and EU prosecuted and convicted of corrupt practises, along with the companies involved and some politicians. The difference is these are not the norm in those countries- the vast majority of civil servants are honest, and public sector tenders are run transparently under strict guidelines; and those convicted are severly punished of course.

Sorry, but it has and does exist in the West - but not as an everyday practice like in Asia.

[Keesters]

All Thai's should lower their heads in shame at this report.

[spidermark]

As mentioned in other posts, Transparency International produces their Corruption Perception Index, which collects information from a number of sources to arrive at a score for a country based on what their sources feel the corruption levels are in the country. Not an exact science since corrution is illegal and people don't publish how much money they collected illegally. They note that trying to use actual identified cases of corruption is not necessarily a good indication of the corruption level but rather a measure of the effectiveness of the police, prosecuters or media to identify and prosecute the cases. Warts and all it is probably the best measure available to compare one country to another in terms of corruption levels.

There are posts here stating that the corruption levels in Thailand are no worse that those in the Western world. That is not the conclusion of this organization. Here are a few countries off the list with their 2011 ranking and score (higher is better).

1 New Zealand 9.5

2 Denmark 9.4

5 Singapore 9.2

14 Germany 8.0

16 UK 7.8

24 USA 7.1

60 Malaysia 4.3

80 Thailand 3.4

100 Indonesia 3.0

112 Vietnam 2.9

Kiwi's at or near the top of yet another morality and values poll? Nothing new there if you want to use an example of why democracy is built around those values, instead of most of the bull crap that is spewed on here about western countries being corrupt to justify Thailand's mess.

I can recall on here a few months back some of the Yingluck and Pheu Thai lovers having a crack at the Democrats term as being the most corrupt in thai history.

The point in disagreement put to that was, corruption in Thailand has been trending up regardless of who is in power since the master scum bag thief himself via his thugs pressured the judicary to find him not guilty when "Madam, wanted to borrow our names" for the Shinawatra's share hiding from declaration. It's no suprise at all that the corruption trend on that fine example of statesmanship from the now convicted fugitive crim is still heading down the dunnie with the majority of young thai's now accepting corruption as long as they benefit from it.

When this current lot of greater thievies and criminals than those gone before came to power the mighty Yingluck and the previous honest "but coalition of thievies for bed mates" Abhisit stood together and proclaimed that they would stand against corruption. Both major politicial parties standing together against corruption! One would think great. Yet here we are a year or so later and the Thai governance machine delivers yet nothing but photo shots and more bull crap and empty nothingness. Thailand is not only politically corrupt, but also morally corrupt. Corruption has consumed Thailand and locked it into destruction and nothing it seems will save it, as nobody in this country seems to have the ability, or will to stop it. Epidemic corruption, morally bankcrupt, lawlessness and a lack of enforcement, inequality in judgements and thugs in government who want to change the laws or threathen the high courts into non existence so that they and the Dubai thief are the law, a convicted fugitive criminal running the country from abroad, one can go on and on. And people talk about Thailand being democratic? Thailand has the over viewing governance it deserves at the point of the gun of the Army. And given the cesspot that Thailand is that is not going to change anytime soon. Thaksin may not be the whole problem of Thailand but he sure has a lot to answer for.

Wow. How does one even respond to a summary like this one? Much of what you said is true. Except the cesspool part. Many of us agree with many of your points. That Thais are essentially missing every point, and dropping every ball. But, many of us love living here, nonetheless. The US is infinitely less corrupt. There is law and order. Too much of it. And it is dull, boring, lifeless, and a very unhappy place to be. So, we put up with the nonsense, because we like it here, despite the absolute fact that Thailand is going backwards.

Sent from my Samsung sIII using Thaivisa Connect App

[scorecard]

First I would like to know who is this Anti-Corruption Network, who is behind ? As far as I know it's just one of these many "independent" group that has been created by the PAD to annoy the government. If I'm wrong, don't hesitate to correct me.

Then, 30% for a government contract is nothing new. A study in Great Britain showed that civil servants are among the most corrupted people in the world. It's true in Thailand, but it's also true in GB and any other western countries. Here I should remind people that government employees in their big majority support the democrats .

Finally to know how corruption is evolving, I'll wait for internationally recognized organization to publish their finding. Here again I should remind the people that previous records showed that things were going noticeably better during Thaksin administration.

"The PAD founds anti-corruption networks to annoy the government"

The posting of the day.....

And, jurgen, I expect you believe the pad, or was it the dems, organized the floods, and just to annoy the government.

In a way the rise in corruption is fairly easy to understand, people joined the 'get rich quick club' (which has it's management offshore by the way) and it worked, they're getting rich quick. Perhaps the 'everyvody will be rich in six months' promise was misunderstood, perhaps it was just applicable to the get rich quick club members.

Edited August 7, 2012 by scorecard