Rights Dept Presses For End Of Death Penalty In Thailand

[webfact]

JUSTICE

Rights dept presses for end of death penalty

PRAVIT ROJANAPHRUK

THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- The Rights and Liberties Protection Department will continue to pressure the government and society in the hope of forging a national consensus for the abolition of capital punishment.

"We shall propose it and offer alternatives to the government," Pithaya Jimawat, director general of the department, which is under the Justice Ministry, said yesterday.

While he gave no time frame, he pointed out that Thailand remained one of the few countries in the world still sentencing convicts to death.

More than 140 of the world's 198 states have abandoned executions, which are widely regarded as inhumane.

"We must look at the sentiment of the world. More than 140 countries have done away with the death penalty but we still have it."

Pithaya and the department welcomed New York-based Japanese photographer Toshi Kazuma, who has spent the better part of the past two decades recording on film youths on death row in such places as the United States and Taiwan.

Kazuma, a passionate advocate of the demise of the death penalty, urged Thai society to stop thinking that the issue is something abstract and far removed from daily concerns.

Everyone in a society that allows the death penalty to continue is in one way or another responsible for the executions, which are cruel and inhumane and do not really prevent crimes, he said.

"We are the ones who are doing the killing. The executors are just doing it on our behalf," said Kazuma, 54, who displayed large black-and-white photos of youths on death row.

Thais should go straight to the execution chamber and observe killings being carried out to become empathetic and understand how they are directly related to the continued existence of the death penalty.

"Executions never bring happiness," Kazuma told a forum, which included senior officials from the Corrections Department. Even the families of crime victims, after a few years pass, almost without fail do not want to see the culprit executed as they do not want to live with anger and hatred. "Revenge is not the answer."

Many executioners he met in various countries asked him to tell the world that they wish they did not have to put anyone to death. Kazuma, who is seeking a permit to take photos of the execution chamber and young death-row inmates in Thailand, said society would be better off concentrating on crime prevention and understanding how crimes happen to begin with.

Many of the young prisoners on death row that he met and filmed were poor people from broken families, he said.

In the US, some 20 prisoners are executed each year, he said. In China, the number ranges from 5,000 to 10,000, with many shot instead of being given a lethal injection so that their organs can be removed for transplants. In Japan, the Justice Ministry has refused access to death-row inmates so that he can photograph them.

In the end, a society that supports the death penalty is inevitably less humane, he said.

"What kind of society do you want to have? If we rely on the death penalty, society will become worse," warned Kazuma.

He takes pictures in large format and in black and white instead of colour so people can use their imagination and engage more with the portraits he took.

-- The Nation 2012-07-19

[Moruya]

JUSTICE

Rights dept presses for end of death penalty

PRAVIT ROJANAPHRUK

THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- The Rights and Liberties Protection Department will continue to pressure the government and society in the hope of forging a national consensus for the abolition of capital punishment.

"We shall propose it and offer alternatives to the government," Pithaya Jimawat, director general of the department, which is under the Justice Ministry, said yesterday.

While he gave no time frame, he pointed out that Thailand remained one of the few countries in the world still sentencing convicts to death.

More than 140 of the world's 198 states have abandoned executions, which are widely regarded as inhumane.

"We must look at the sentiment of the world. More than 140 countries have done away with the death penalty but we still have it."

Pithaya and the department welcomed New York-based Japanese photographer Toshi Kazuma, who has spent the better part of the past two decades recording on film youths on death row in such places as the United States and Taiwan.

Kazuma, a passionate advocate of the demise of the death penalty, urged Thai society to stop thinking that the issue is something abstract and far removed from daily concerns.

Everyone in a society that allows the death penalty to continue is in one way or another responsible for the executions, which are cruel and inhumane and do not really prevent crimes, he said.

"We are the ones who are doing the killing. The executors are just doing it on our behalf," said Kazuma, 54, who displayed large black-and-white photos of youths on death row.

Thais should go straight to the execution chamber and observe killings being carried out to become empathetic and understand how they are directly related to the continued existence of the death penalty.

"Executions never bring happiness," Kazuma told a forum, which included senior officials from the Corrections Department. Even the families of crime victims, after a few years pass, almost without fail do not want to see the culprit executed as they do not want to live with anger and hatred. "Revenge is not the answer."

Many executioners he met in various countries asked him to tell the world that they wish they did not have to put anyone to death. Kazuma, who is seeking a permit to take photos of the execution chamber and young death-row inmates in Thailand, said society would be better off concentrating on crime prevention and understanding how crimes happen to begin with.

Many of the young prisoners on death row that he met and filmed were poor people from broken families, he said.

In the US, some 20 prisoners are executed each year, he said. In China, the number ranges from 5,000 to 10,000, with many shot instead of being given a lethal injection so that their organs can be removed for transplants. In Japan, the Justice Ministry has refused access to death-row inmates so that he can photograph them.

In the end, a society that supports the death penalty is inevitably less humane, he said.

"What kind of society do you want to have? If we rely on the death penalty, society will become worse," warned Kazuma.

He takes pictures in large format and in black and white instead of colour so people can use their imagination and engage more with the portraits he took.

-- The Nation 2012-07-19

Chalerm the Bloodthirsty will be positively apoplectic

[SouthernMan3]

"Revenge is not the answer."

This is not about revenge but about making the price of the crime too high to commit the crime.

[sprq]

"Revenge is not the answer."

This is not about revenge but about making the price of the crime too high to commit the crime.

Doesn't work.

[BrianCR]

"Revenge is not the answer."

This is not about revenge but about making the price of the crime too high to commit the crime.

Doesn't work.

I could.t agree with you more - animals should be locked away for life - not murdered by law!!!

[hawker9000]

"Revenge is not the answer."

This is not about revenge but about making the price of the crime too high to commit the crime.

Doesn't work.

I actually think it does, but if even one murder is committed in a place with the death penalty, then the critics shout, "See! It doesn't work." The fact that someone still murders doesn't mean others haven't been/won't be deterred. Moreover, as soon as we eliminate the death penalty, then we move on to the "rehabilitation vs punishment" argument, whereby the murderer has to eventually be released so he can murder again. Why should society have to risk that, OR foot the bill for the thug's room & board for the rest of his life? When he committed his crime, he hung a sign around his own neck saying "predator". No right to life for such a person. Shoot him, hang him, electrocute or gas him - I really don't care, just get it done. (Yes, I'd be willing to throw the switch. Definitely. I wouldn't enjoy it, but I'd see it as a necessary public service. I might even suggest that one of the jurors who delivers a guilty verdict in a capital case should be be chosen by lottery to have to throw the switch.) There's more humanity in sparing society from the depradations of a known killer, and in being resolute in not tolerating them, than in allowing the criminal's brutality to continue. The statement that executions bring no happiness is typical distraction rhetoric having no point: nobody ever said they do. What executions bring is JUSTICE!

[tlansford]

Rights dept presses for end of death penalty

what a good idea.

[tlansford]

"Revenge is not the answer."

This is not about revenge but about making the price of the crime too high to commit the crime.

Doesn't work.

I actually think it does, but if even one murder is committed in a place with the death penalty, then the critics shout, "See! It doesn't work." The fact that someone still murders doesn't mean others haven't been/won't be deterred. Moreover, as soon as we eliminate the death penalty, then we move on to the "rehabilitation vs punishment" argument, whereby the murderer has to eventually be released so he can murder again. Why should society have to risk that, OR foot the bill for the thug's room & board for the rest of his life? When he committed his crime, he hung a sign around his own neck saying "predator". No right to life for such a person. Shoot him, hang him, electrocute or gas him - I really don't care, just get it done. (Yes, I'd be willing to throw the switch. Definitely. I wouldn't enjoy it, but I'd see it as a necessary public service. I might even suggest that one of the jurors who delivers a guilty verdict in a capital case should be be chosen by lottery to have to throw the switch.) There's more humanity in sparing society from the depradations of a known killer, and in being resolute in not tolerating them, than in allowing the criminal's brutality to continue. The statement that executions bring no happiness is typical distraction rhetoric having no point: nobody ever said they do. What executions bring is JUSTICE!

if killing someone is wrong, then killing the killer is justice? No, in my opinion it's just revenge, not justice.

[Jingthing]

Many would probably prefer facing the death penalty than a life sentence in Thai prison. I think the BIGGER human rights issue for Thailand is improving the living conditions in their prisons.

[coma]

Thailand uses it very sparingly these days. Mostly for major drug traffickers that do not admit thier guilt.

Although a month or two back a man got sentence to death for conspiracy to murder and murder. He was the master mind. He denied involvement so they gave him the lot. The trigger men pleaded guilty and got thier death sentences commuted to life. I believe the victims were a family with 2 young children.

I have no problem with it when it is premeditated and there is children involved. I think Thailand actually has the right balance.

[obi1970]

just kill them , if they did crimes that deserve the death penalty , just execute them without any form of pity. You need to think about there victems . keeping those criminals alive only just cost the comunity more and victems of those people never find rest if they stay alive . and yes the death penalty has a effect on crime but you need to inforce it correctly to make it work and not convict them and lett them be in jail for 10-20 years.

people like drugdealers kill whole generations of kids , killers, psychopats, etc will never become a part of our society they just will destroy whatever is good in it

this are my 10 cents.

oooooh yes i forget i dont give a crap about human right if its about people like this , i you dont like the time!!! dont do the crime!!!

Edited July 19, 2012 by obi1970

[obi1970]

Many would probably prefer facing the death penalty than a life sentence in Thai prison. I think the BIGGER human rights issue for Thailand is improving the living conditions in their prisons.

i hope your joking right!!! look in europe they have a holiday camp!!! yail is punishment not a holiday. bread and water thats it!! (or ricesoup and water)

[SouthernMan3]

"Revenge is not the answer."

This is not about revenge but about making the price of the crime too high to commit the crime.

Doesn't work.

I could.t agree with you more - animals should be locked away for life - not murdered by law!!!

Yea, so that their gov't can pay for them to sleep for the rest of their lives.

Hell man, this is Thailand.

We are Buddhist.

Send them off to their next lives.

Give the sots a fighting chance why don'tca...

And as for "doesn't work".

One of the most intelligent and factually backed up posts I've ever read,

NOT.

[Jingthing]

Many would probably prefer facing the death penalty than a life sentence in Thai prison. I think the BIGGER human rights issue for Thailand is improving the living conditions in their prisons.

i hope your joking right!!! look in europe they have a holiday camp!!! yail is punishment not a holiday. bread and water thats it!! (or ricesoup and water)

I'm not joking at all. There is a middle ground between a holiday camp and an environment where prisoners are suffering with chronic untreated scabies and farming cockroaches in their inhumanely overcrowded cells. (Etc.)

[SouthernMan3]

"Revenge is not the answer."

This is not about revenge but about making the price of the crime too high to commit the crime.

Doesn't work.

I actually think it does, but if even one murder is committed in a place with the death penalty, then the critics shout, "See! It doesn't work." The fact that someone still murders doesn't mean others haven't been/won't be deterred. Moreover, as soon as we eliminate the death penalty, then we move on to the "rehabilitation vs punishment" argument, whereby the murderer has to eventually be released so he can murder again. Why should society have to risk that, OR foot the bill for the thug's room & board for the rest of his life? When he committed his crime, he hung a sign around his own neck saying "predator". No right to life for such a person. Shoot him, hang him, electrocute or gas him - I really don't care, just get it done. (Yes, I'd be willing to throw the switch. Definitely. I wouldn't enjoy it, but I'd see it as a necessary public service. I might even suggest that one of the jurors who delivers a guilty verdict in a capital case should be be chosen by lottery to have to throw the switch.) There's more humanity in sparing society from the depradations of a known killer, and in being resolute in not tolerating them, than in allowing the criminal's brutality to continue. The statement that executions bring no happiness is typical distraction rhetoric having no point: nobody ever said they do. What executions bring is JUSTICE!

Here, here !

[Jingthing]

Thailand's justice system isn't exactly world class. Yes, I am saying consider the people that may actually be innocent. It happens in first world countries. Face it, it happens more in countries like Thailand.

[SouthernMan3]

"Revenge is not the answer."

This is not about revenge but about making the price of the crime too high to commit the crime.

Doesn't work.

I actually think it does, but if even one murder is committed in a place with the death penalty, then the critics shout, "See! It doesn't work." The fact that someone still murders doesn't mean others haven't been/won't be deterred. Moreover, as soon as we eliminate the death penalty, then we move on to the "rehabilitation vs punishment" argument, whereby the murderer has to eventually be released so he can murder again. Why should society have to risk that, OR foot the bill for the thug's room & board for the rest of his life? When he committed his crime, he hung a sign around his own neck saying "predator". No right to life for such a person. Shoot him, hang him, electrocute or gas him - I really don't care, just get it done. (Yes, I'd be willing to throw the switch. Definitely. I wouldn't enjoy it, but I'd see it as a necessary public service. I might even suggest that one of the jurors who delivers a guilty verdict in a capital case should be be chosen by lottery to have to throw the switch.) There's more humanity in sparing society from the depradations of a known killer, and in being resolute in not tolerating them, than in allowing the criminal's brutality to continue. The statement that executions bring no happiness is typical distraction rhetoric having no point: nobody ever said they do. What executions bring is JUSTICE!

if killing someone is wrong, then killing the killer is justice? No, in my opinion it's just revenge, not justice.

Opinions are like assh*les.

Everybody's got one and they are entitled to it !

[tlansford]

- deleted -

Doesn't work.

I actually think it does, but if even one murder is committed in a place with the death penalty, then the critics shout, "See! It doesn't work." The fact that someone still murders doesn't mean others haven't been/won't be deterred. Moreover, as soon as we eliminate the death penalty, then we move on to the "rehabilitation vs punishment" argument, whereby the murderer has to eventually be released so he can murder again. Why should society have to risk that, OR foot the bill for the thug's room & board for the rest of his life? When he committed his crime, he hung a sign around his own neck saying "predator". No right to life for such a person. Shoot him, hang him, electrocute or gas him - I really don't care, just get it done. (Yes, I'd be willing to throw the switch. Definitely. I wouldn't enjoy it, but I'd see it as a necessary public service. I might even suggest that one of the jurors who delivers a guilty verdict in a capital case should be be chosen by lottery to have to throw the switch.) There's more humanity in sparing society from the depradations of a known killer, and in being resolute in not tolerating them, than in allowing the criminal's brutality to continue. The statement that executions bring no happiness is typical distraction rhetoric having no point: nobody ever said they do. What executions bring is JUSTICE!

if killing someone is wrong, then killing the killer is justice? No, in my opinion it's just revenge, not justice.

Opinions are like assh*les.

Everybody's got one and they are entitled to it !

Agreed, and your opinion is different than mine.

I don't believe in it for several reasons and even if it were proven to be a deterrent, that would not change my position on the issue. But regarding the argument that capital punishment is a deterrent, which you argue above, I have never seen evidence research published supporting this position.

It's a nice, unproven claim, AFAIK.

[phiphidon]

"Revenge is not the answer."

This is not about revenge but about making the price of the crime too high to commit the crime.

Doesn't work.

I actually think it does, but if even one murder is committed in a place with the death penalty, then the critics shout, "See! It doesn't work." The fact that someone still murders doesn't mean others haven't been/won't be deterred. Moreover, as soon as we eliminate the death penalty, then we move on to the "rehabilitation vs punishment" argument, whereby the murderer has to eventually be released so he can murder again. Why should society have to risk that, OR foot the bill for the thug's room & board for the rest of his life? When he committed his crime, he hung a sign around his own neck saying "predator". No right to life for such a person. Shoot him, hang him, electrocute or gas him - I really don't care, just get it done. (Yes, I'd be willing to throw the switch. Definitely. I wouldn't enjoy it, but I'd see it as a necessary public service. I might even suggest that one of the jurors who delivers a guilty verdict in a capital case should be be chosen by lottery to have to throw the switch.) There's more humanity in sparing society from the depradations of a known killer, and in being resolute in not tolerating them, than in allowing the criminal's brutality to continue. The statement that executions bring no happiness is typical distraction rhetoric having no point: nobody ever said they do. What executions bring is JUSTICE!

Here, here !

What happens when people make mistakes and innocents are condemned? Lets say you were innocent but in the situation of being the recipient of the death penalty - do you honestly think that you would accept that circumstance, just write it off as a mistake, sh(t happens?

Is that Justice in your eyes? It's no good saying it hasn't happened, it's probably still happening...................

[SouthernMan3]

"Agreed, and your opinion is different than mine.

I don't believe in it for several reasons and even if it were proven to be a deterrent, that would not change my position on the issue. But regarding the argument that capital punishment is a deterrent, which you argue above, I have never seen evidence research published supporting this position.

It's a nice, unproven claim, AFAIK."

Sorry for my ignorance but what is AFAIK ?

And, let me ask you this.

Hypothetically, you are a meth kingpin (which to me is the same as a mass murderer).

Would you rather commit your crime in say, Malaysia where you know that you might be put to death.

Or any other country on the globe where you know that at worst you will have a free ride for life and at best be set free or escape ?

[SouthernMan3]

"What happens when people make mistakes and innocents are condemned? Lets say you were innocent but in the situation of being the recipient of the death penalty - do you honestly think that you would accept that circumstance, just write it off as a mistake, sh(t happens?

Is that Justice in your eyes? It's no good saying it hasn't happened, it's probably still happening..................."

It has and does happen.

It is very very very very unfortunate.

Actually it totally sucks !

And no, if it were me I would not accept it.

I would fight tooth and nail !

Who was it who said the good of the many outweigh the few ?

Or some such quote....

[philw]

just kill them , if they did crimes that deserve the death penalty , just execute them without any form of pity. You need to think about there victems . keeping those criminals alive only just cost the comunity more and victems of those people never find rest if they stay alive . and yes the death penalty has a effect on crime but you need to inforce it correctly to make it work and not convict them and lett them be in jail for 10-20 years.

people like drugdealers kill whole generations of kids , killers, psychopats, etc will never become a part of our society they just will destroy whatever is good in it

this are my 10 cents.

oooooh yes i forget i dont give a crap about human right if its about people like this , i you dont like the time!!! dont do the crime!!!

Ever sat on a jury ?

Ever thought about unsafe, never mind wrongful convictions ?

Ever been arrested and actually in a judicial process ?

The death penalty is wrong simply because the systems that implement it cannot be certain.

In the case of Thailand, it's application goes against the basic precepts of Buddhism.

Edited July 19, 2012 by philw

[Jingthing]

What percentage of prisoners are executed?

Yes, that's wrong but what about the majority of prisoners?

What about their living conditions? Why no outrage about that?

[khunken]

I've never agreed with Phiphidon before but I totally agree with what he says on this subject. The death penalty is state-sponsored revenge. Additionally there are many cases of wrongful execution - just look at the USA - & it is too late to right that wrong.

As for a deterrent - it's not. many countries with no death penalty have lower percentages of murder (for example) than those with the death penalty. Finally doing time in a Thai prison is a fate worse than death.

[tlansford]

"Agreed, and your opinion is different than mine.

I don't believe in it for several reasons and even if it were proven to be a deterrent, that would not change my position on the issue. But regarding the argument that capital punishment is a deterrent, which you argue above, I have never seen evidence research published supporting this position.

It's a nice, unproven claim, AFAIK."

Sorry for my ignorance but what is AFAIK ?

And, let me ask you this.

Hypothetically, you are a meth kingpin (which to me is the same as a mass murderer).

Would you rather commit your crime in say, Malaysia where you know that you might be put to death.

Or any other country on the globe where you know that at worst you will have a free ride for life and at best be set free or escape ?

AFAIK is As far as I know.

Like I said, I do not agree with it for reasons that do not have anything to do with the deterrent argument, but neither I have never seen any study showing that it works as a deterrent. Maybe studies supporting that view exist, but I have never seen anything other than anecdotal statements. Which are similar to your hypothetical question posed above.

[SouthernMan3]

"Agreed, and your opinion is different than mine.

I don't believe in it for several reasons and even if it were proven to be a deterrent, that would not change my position on the issue. But regarding the argument that capital punishment is a deterrent, which you argue above, I have never seen evidence research published supporting this position.

It's a nice, unproven claim, AFAIK."

Sorry for my ignorance but what is AFAIK ?

And, let me ask you this.

Hypothetically, you are a meth kingpin (which to me is the same as a mass murderer).

Would you rather commit your crime in say, Malaysia where you know that you might be put to death.

Or any other country on the globe where you know that at worst you will have a free ride for life and at best be set free or escape ?

AFAIK is As far as I know.

Like I said, I do not agree with it for reasons that do not have anything to do with the deterrent argument, but neither I have never seen any study showing that it works as a deterrent. Maybe studies supporting that view exist, but I have never seen anything other than anecdotal statements. Which are similar to your hypothetical question posed above.

Yes, my hypothetical question which you did not answer.....

[tlansford]

"Agreed, and your opinion is different than mine.

I don't believe in it for several reasons and even if it were proven to be a deterrent, that would not change my position on the issue. But regarding the argument that capital punishment is a deterrent, which you argue above, I have never seen evidence research published supporting this position.

It's a nice, unproven claim, AFAIK."

Sorry for my ignorance but what is AFAIK ?

And, let me ask you this.

Hypothetically, you are a meth kingpin (which to me is the same as a mass murderer).

Would you rather commit your crime in say, Malaysia where you know that you might be put to death.

Or any other country on the globe where you know that at worst you will have a free ride for life and at best be set free or escape ?

AFAIK is As far as I know.

Like I said, I do not agree with it for reasons that do not have anything to do with the deterrent argument, but neither I have never seen any study showing that it works as a deterrent. Maybe studies supporting that view exist, but I have never seen anything other than anecdotal statements. Which are similar to your hypothetical question posed above.

Yes, my hypothetical question which you did not answer.....

right, because hypothetically, it would make a bit of difference to me.

edit : sorry, that might seem like a flippant reply, but I mean that a hypothetical question posed to me has no bearing on the issue. I would never be a mass murderer nor a meth kingpin, regardless of them being the same thing or not. My answer is not relevant to the argument. Neither is anecdotal evidence.

What would be interesting from the perspective of those who do/don't support capital punishment because it is/isn't a deterrent (which I am not), would be statistical evidence that it is / is not a deterrent.

I've not seen this, but maybe the information / studies have been done.

Edited July 20, 2012 by tlansford

[h90]

"Revenge is not the answer."

This is not about revenge but about making the price of the crime too high to commit the crime.

I doubt that it will impress bad guys, if you increase from lifetime in jail to death sentence.

[h90]

just kill them , if they did crimes that deserve the death penalty , just execute them without any form of pity. You need to think about there victems . keeping those criminals alive only just cost the comunity more and victems of those people never find rest if they stay alive . and yes the death penalty has a effect on crime but you need to inforce it correctly to make it work and not convict them and lett them be in jail for 10-20 years.

people like drugdealers kill whole generations of kids , killers, psychopats, etc will never become a part of our society they just will destroy whatever is good in it

this are my 10 cents.

oooooh yes i forget i dont give a crap about human right if its about people like this , i you dont like the time!!! dont do the crime!!!

But look at the Thai courts. Nothing against death penalty...but Thai courts decide over life?

[rubl]

"Rights Dept Presses For End Of Death Penalty In Thailand"

So that's why Dept. PM Pol. Captain Chalerm wants to execute drugrunners faster. And here I was thinking it related to them running