Tablet Computer Distribution Kicks Off In Thailand

[thaicbr]

What books of learning for 7 year olds dont require writing or drawing in the books. Examples commonly used please

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[thaicbr]

Ok. You tell me.

You have forty 7 year olds in front of you how do you tell them what to do. How do you know they have done it. How do you interact with them.

Think about it and let me know. Ok

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Ok

1) with your mouth

2) you check

3) again, with your mouth where the words come out of.

Hahahaha

With your mouth. I hope the tablets are waterproof. Expand please on 'with your mouth ' and 'you check '

How with your mouth and how do you check?

I am thinking you have never seen or been in a thai P1 class

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[nurofiend]

What books of learning for 7 year olds dont require writing or drawing in the books. Examples commonly used please

sent from my Wellcom A90+

why are you asking me for this?

[nurofiend]

Ok. You tell me.

You have forty 7 year olds in front of you how do you tell them what to do. How do you know they have done it. How do you interact with them.

Think about it and let me know. Ok

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Ok

1) with your mouth

2) you check

3) again, with your mouth where the words come out of.

Hahahaha

With your mouth. I hope the tablets are waterproof. Expand please on 'with your mouth ' and 'you check '

How with your mouth and how do you check?

I am thinking you have never seen or been in a thai P1 class

sent from my Wellcom A90+

i don't need to expand on what i meant by 'with your mouth', if it's too cryptic for you then i apologize.

you check by walking around and checking what they have done... again i thought you would have figured that out.

[Reasonableman]

Get real

i am being real, i'm not saying what you said will never happen in any instances.

but the way you put it sounds like that is all that will happen.

I'd just like to see a bit more common sense applied, without the hype.

well if you're referring to me, i'm not hyping anything and my views on this are based on common sense.

An uncommon sense of common sense. ;-) i was actually referring to our enthusiastic software developer, and all the exciting future prospects... Future... Anyway, when the machines do fail, and at some time they will, what's the strategy? Is that not a fair question? I would really like to know.

[Grafted]

RE "40 kids in a class - fix this first" objection

In the second year of my teaching career I was fortunate to teach a group of 60 9yo kids together with an excellent teacher. Only blackboards and the really really useful old overhead projector. After 15 weeks we recognised it wasn't working. Too many kids who could not read well enough to progress with guided independence. I took the 20 kids most in need of basic skills, my mate had the 40. He taught the 40 using a guided independence methodology. The kids had learning goals and moved thru a series of experiences to accomplish them. His room was always a buzz of activity which might frighten the socks off a "work in silence" oriented administrator. They used smart self assessment and buddy assessment techniques, accomplished heaps and Robert seemed to do it all with no effort.

One year I volunteered to take 37 10 yo kids of mixed abilities in a similarly equipped classroom. (because it helped the school class setup) I found it little more challenging than the 29 that was standard in later years. I've really only got my own experience to work from, but it is some experience. I've always felt it is not the number of kids that make a difference is the personality and "right fit for the job" of the teacher working within an administrative environment that supports them.

I have seen plenty of hopeless teachers with regulation class sizes who screamed for 6 hours a day and hated the job and the kids.

If used by great teachers the tablets will enable the kids to get A PERSONALISED CURRICULUM. ie the software should enable them to move thru the material at their own pace, highlight weaknesses the teacher needs to address specifically and so much more.

I don't know why a bunch of elderly Farang are so upset at this. We do not matter, nobody cares what we say, there is no Thai pension for us to potentially lose because this will bring down the economy or some such rubbish, maybe we all need to get a life!

[nurofiend]

An uncommon sense of common sense. ;-) i was actually referring to our enthusiastic software developer, and all the exciting future prospects... Future... Anyway, when the machines do fail, and at some time they will, what's the strategy? Is that not a fair question? I would really like to know.

it is a fair question but as we all know they won't all fail simultaneously and none of us know how long they will last yet, could be a few years, could be many... so i can only speculate... i suppose they have some kind of warranty deal and when they outlive that, they'll probably just have to replace whatever ones fail by buying more.

i fully believe that in the (possibly not too distant) future that classrooms will be completely devoid of books.

Edited July 19, 2012 by nurofiend

[Reasonableman]

Who's upset? Some perfectly sensible questions and no answers forthcoming (so far). If you don't have answers, that's fine, cos it seems no-one else does, either. And the theoretical wonder of it all has to be implemented in the real world. That's where a good grasp of that reality, on the ground, in the classroom, in the village and elsewhere, will help one gain perspective on the usefulness of this experiment. It will be most interesting to follow.

[OZEMADE]

Well at least the Yingluck Gov has kept their promise and started to distribute the tablets, a bit late but no fault of the Thai gov.

In relation to learning on these tablets, Australians have been using computers for ages as have Thai students and most have been using computers since they were able to use a key board and mouse.

Australians in the outback did all of their home schooling from radios earlier and now from computers and phones.

I dont see a problem with learning from tablets.

My Thai sister in law learns from her school on a computer and has to do her homework and submit it at night to the teacher via email.

I dont know what all the hype is all about.

[Reasonableman]

Seems we were both typing simultaneously. Yes, we'll have to buy more. Neat, huh? ;-)

[nurofiend]

Who's upset? Some perfectly sensible questions and no answers forthcoming (so far). If you don't have answers, that's fine, cos it seems no-one else does, either. And the theoretical wonder of it all has to be implemented in the real world. That's where a good grasp of that reality, on the ground, in the classroom, in the village and elsewhere, will help one gain perspective on the usefulness of this experiment. It will be most interesting to follow.

ok can you give a question by question post, without any added fluff (and i don't mean that personally), i'm just looking for a post with straight to the point questions.

[thaicbr]

RE "40 kids in a class - fix this first" objection

In the second year of my teaching career I was fortunate to teach a group of 60 9yo kids together with an excellent teacher. Only blackboards and the really really useful old overhead projector. After 15 weeks we recognised it wasn't working. Too many kids who could not read well enough to progress with guided independence. I took the 20 kids most in need of basic skills, my mate had the 40. He taught the 40 using a guided independence methodology. The kids had learning goals and moved thru a series of experiences to accomplish them. His room was always a buzz of activity which might frighten the socks off a "work in silence" oriented administrator. They used smart self assessment and buddy assessment techniques, accomplished heaps and Robert seemed to do it all with no effort.

One year I volunteered to take 37 10 yo kids of mixed abilities in a similarly equipped classroom. (because it helped the school class setup) I found it little more challenging than the 29 that was standard in later years. I've really only got my own experience to work from, but it is some experience. I've always felt it is not the number of kids that make a difference is the personality and "right fit for the job" of the teacher working within an administrative environment that supports them.

I have seen plenty of hopeless teachers with regulation class sizes who screamed for 6 hours a day and hated the job and the kids.

If used by great teachers the tablets will enable the kids to get A PERSONALISED CURRICULUM. ie the software should enable them to move thru the material at their own pace, highlight weaknesses the teacher needs to address specifically and so much more.

I don't know why a bunch of elderly Farang are so upset at this. We do not matter, nobody cares what we say, there is no Thai pension for us to potentially lose because this will bring down the economy or some such rubbish, maybe we all need to get a life!

What country was this? I'm also glad you could do what you wanted in the classroom. In many schools here that would not be allowed.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Edited July 19, 2012 by thaicbr

[nurofiend]

Seems we were both typing simultaneously. Yes, we'll have to buy more. Neat, huh? ;-)

[thaicbr]

Ok. You tell me.

You have forty 7 year olds in front of you how do you tell them what to do. How do you know they have done it. How do you interact with them.

Think about it and let me know. Ok

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Ok

1) with your mouth

2) you check

3) again, with your mouth where the words come out of.

Hahahaha

With your mouth. I hope the tablets are waterproof. Expand please on 'with your mouth ' and 'you check '

How with your mouth and how do you check?

I am thinking you have never seen or been in a thai P1 class

sent from my Wellcom A90+

i don't need to expand on what i meant by 'with your mouth', if it's too cryptic for you then i apologize.

you check by walking around and checking what they have done... again i thought you would have figured that out.

That's what I thought. No idea.

So you are using you time checking the basic usage rather than teaching. Great

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[nurofiend]

That's what I thought. No idea.

So you are using you time checking the basic usage rather than teaching. Great

sent from my Wellcom A90+

i know that's what you thought, you have no idea what i meant.

[thaicbr]

That's what I thought. No idea.

So you are using you time checking the basic usage rather than teaching. Great

sent from my Wellcom A90+

i know that's what you thought, you have no idea what i meant.

Expand then please. Pretty please

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[nurofiend]

That's what I thought. No idea.

So you are using you time checking the basic usage rather than teaching. Great

sent from my Wellcom A90+

i know that's what you thought, you have no idea what i meant.

Expand then please. Pretty please

sent from my Wellcom A90+

nope, it's there in black and white.

just re-read it.

[thaicbr]

That's what I thought. No idea.

So you are using you time checking the basic usage rather than teaching. Great

sent from my Wellcom A90+

i know that's what you thought, you have no idea what i meant.

Expand then please. Pretty please

sent from my Wellcom A90+

nope, it's there in black and white.

just re-read it.

Ok. Use your mouth. What language do you use?

If you can't or dont want to expand fine. But please dont imply I didn't read it properly.

you will be asking forty 7 year old thai kids that will have very variable English skills. How do you 'use your mouth '

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[Grafted]

I taught in Australia - Sydney. I also taught in country areas and class sizes of 33 & 34 were common.

As for technolgy, I taught myself basic and wrote 3 simple Reading Enhancement programs back in the early 80's. This predated the IBM PC. I used my own 32kb ... not mb or gb but kilobyte Microbee brand with the programs loaded by cassette tape. It was TRASH .. techno trash, by todays standards but it accomplished a few objectives and the kids huddled in a group of 3 around the CRT, thrilled to be using it.

Someone called these machines trash .... oh really? I can tell you for sure that you can do heaps on these machines. There was once a simple program called Turtle think. It had about 10 commands and drew lines on a screen. Penup, 125right pendown, 100 pen up loop. Did you understand it? 10 year olds did and constructed wonderful litttle programs like this and next day their buddies would verify the program by following the instructions and drawing on paper with pencil ruler and protractor to verify. If you can get kids fired up to do that with just 32kb and a green line on a screen what can you do with these wonderful learning tools

I'm enjoying the memories!

Edited July 19, 2012 by Grafted

[Grafted]

THAICBR: You are either not a teacher or you shouldn't be.

[thaicbr]

THAICBR: You are either not a teacher or you shouldn't be.

Grafted. Why do you say that?

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[nurofiend]

Ok. Use your mouth. What language do you use?

If you can't or dont want to expand fine. But please dont imply I didn't read it properly.

you will be asking forty 7 year old thai kids that will have very variable English skills. How do you 'use your mouth '

sent from my Wellcom A90+

"Ok. Use your mouth. What language do you use?"

well if you can speak thai, then thai... if you can't then probably english, i don't see what the problems of young thai kids understanding english has to do with whether tablets are a good idea or not.

that obstacle is there regardless, when they are being taught by a non thai speaker, so it's an irrelevant point.

"But please dont imply I didn't read it properly."

i didn't, i implied you didn't understand what i meant properly solely based on your responses.

so there you go.

class dismissed.

Edited July 19, 2012 by nurofiend

[Reasonableman]

THAICBR: You are either not a teacher or you shouldn't be.

Grafted. Why do you say that?

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Still bathed in self-adulatory afterglow, at a guess. ;-)

[thaicbr]

Ok. Use your mouth. What language do you use?

If you can't or dont want to expand fine. But please dont imply I didn't read it properly.

you will be asking forty 7 year old thai kids that will have very variable English skills. How do you 'use your mouth '

sent from my Wellcom A90+

"Ok. Use your mouth. What language do you use?"

well if you can speak thai, then thai... if you can't then probably english, i don't see what the problems of young thai kids understanding english has to do with whether tablets are a good idea or not.

that obstacle is there regardless if they are being taught by a non thai speaker, so it's an irrelevant point.

"But please dont imply I didn't read it properly."

i didn't, i implied you didn't understand what i meant properly solely based on your responses.

so there you go.

class dismissed.

Ok then you consider it an irrelevant point. Fair enough.

The point is the obstacle is not there when you have the 7 year old students attention on you. Because you can point it out in a clear and precise way.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Edited July 19, 2012 by thaicbr

[nurofiend]

Ok. Use your mouth. What language do you use?

If you can't or dont want to expand fine. But please dont imply I didn't read it properly.

you will be asking forty 7 year old thai kids that will have very variable English skills. How do you 'use your mouth '

sent from my Wellcom A90+

"Ok. Use your mouth. What language do you use?"

well if you can speak thai, then thai... if you can't then probably english, i don't see what the problems of young thai kids understanding english has to do with whether tablets are a good idea or not.

that obstacle is there regardless if they are being taught by a non thai speaker, so it's an irrelevant point.

"But please dont imply I didn't read it properly."

i didn't, i implied you didn't understand what i meant properly solely based on your responses.

so there you go.

class dismissed.

Ok then you consider it an irrelevant point. Fair enough.

The point is the obstacle is not there when you have the 7 year old students attention on you. Because you can point it out in a clear and precise way.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

the point of what language you use IS an irrelevant point to the pros and cons of tablets, yes.

[hellodolly]

I humbly suggest too few commentators have seen the engaging multi-sensory learning that can come from well designed (pedagogically, technically and visually) apps.

If you had you would soon become aware that much of our old style teaching is in fact regressive. Even the best of teachers will tell you that they hold back a majority of children with senseless repetition of examples of things they can already do, and are unable to explore the various learning methods of all the kids.

While I would never suggest that tablets should or even could be used to teach the whole curriculum, they are brilliant at engaging and especially so for the youngest of children. Audio, visual and even tactile (the screen buzzes under the finger) response can be given and the child is 100% engaged and well motivated to learn.

Tablets are TOUCH machines, What is more natural suitable for children than the tablet.

lastly, remember the set of encyclopedias you had at home. We had both Junior and the full set of adult Britannicas. Brittanica is now OUT OF PRINT, IT IS ONLINE ONLY. In 50 years how many books.

You really don't understand what a lot of are saying. We agree with you that their are problems with the way kids are being tought (see I can't even spell and I am old school and this fool machine can't help me) today. We say retrain the teachers. Don't leave them incapable and replace them with a pad. The first few years in school there brains are not yet mature. They are also learning to get along with others. Why throw all that away. It is things they will be able to use the rest of their life.

It is bad enough now with face book. We are raising a generation of people unable to work together unless it is done electronically. Bring on the pads in the late third grade and fourth grade. By this time if teachers are properly trained they will be able to reason for them selves. To work through problems for them selves.

To give a first grader a pad is no better than teaching by rote because he has not developed reasoning skills and you are just saying here is how it is done. No different than the teaching method they use today Educate your educators first.

A friend of mine just got his license to teach English. After a month they called him into the office. They wanted to know if he would be willing to teach another class. The thing was the students would be the other teachers.

I know you are a man of ideas out of the norm (good ones) but look at yourself mid fifties and here you are communicating ideas electronically. Imagine if in grade one they had made you dependent on electronics where would you be now. I predict a lot of the people who enter school and are handed a tablet now will grow up to be isolated people in later years. Nobody and I mean nobody should be told to rely on a pad until they are at least in the third grad. And then it should be a reliable product with intelligent programs on it.

Some one else mentioned the eye sight. I don't know if it will make a difference but I use big screens so I can have reasonable size words on it with out spending half my time scrolling down. When you get to be my age you learn to take things like that into consideration. In first grade I was invulnerable in my mind. Today I can reason with myself and along with experience realize that I am very vulnerable.

I just had a thought. If all are knowledge came from pad's computer's and what not electronic thingies these conversations would be a list of statistics and reference points.

"I predict a lot of the people who enter school and are handed a tablet now will grow up to be isolated people in later years."

huh???

your whole post comes across as extremely old fashioned and technophobic.

First check the number of my posts then get a dictionary and look up the word technophobic.

I am completely clueless as to how you can live in Thailand and think the teachers don't need upgrading. There are good teachers out there but most of the teachers just move the student along. That has to be stopped it is not good teaching.

I would take it that your belief is change nothing just give the student a pad when he first enters school and He will be getting a good education. And I don't mean a good education on how to play angry bird. In twelve years we will have a generation of mental giants.

Let me try to explain it to you this way. If your car blows a rod You don't put a new four barrel carburetor on it to fix the problem.

You fix the problem and then put the new four barrel carburetor on it to improve it's performance.

The same in the schools fix the teachers give the kids the time to mature mentally and learn to interact with each other then give them the pad to improve their learning.

Your post comes across as what ever the government says is really good.

[nurofiend]

I humbly suggest too few commentators have seen the engaging multi-sensory learning that can come from well designed (pedagogically, technically and visually) apps.

If you had you would soon become aware that much of our old style teaching is in fact regressive. Even the best of teachers will tell you that they hold back a majority of children with senseless repetition of examples of things they can already do, and are unable to explore the various learning methods of all the kids.

While I would never suggest that tablets should or even could be used to teach the whole curriculum, they are brilliant at engaging and especially so for the youngest of children. Audio, visual and even tactile (the screen buzzes under the finger) response can be given and the child is 100% engaged and well motivated to learn.

Tablets are TOUCH machines, What is more natural suitable for children than the tablet.

lastly, remember the set of encyclopedias you had at home. We had both Junior and the full set of adult Britannicas. Brittanica is now OUT OF PRINT, IT IS ONLINE ONLY. In 50 years how many books.

You really don't understand what a lot of are saying. We agree with you that their are problems with the way kids are being tought (see I can't even spell and I am old school and this fool machine can't help me) today. We say retrain the teachers. Don't leave them incapable and replace them with a pad. The first few years in school there brains are not yet mature. They are also learning to get along with others. Why throw all that away. It is things they will be able to use the rest of their life.

It is bad enough now with face book. We are raising a generation of people unable to work together unless it is done electronically. Bring on the pads in the late third grade and fourth grade. By this time if teachers are properly trained they will be able to reason for them selves. To work through problems for them selves.

To give a first grader a pad is no better than teaching by rote because he has not developed reasoning skills and you are just saying here is how it is done. No different than the teaching method they use today Educate your educators first.

A friend of mine just got his license to teach English. After a month they called him into the office. They wanted to know if he would be willing to teach another class. The thing was the students would be the other teachers.

I know you are a man of ideas out of the norm (good ones) but look at yourself mid fifties and here you are communicating ideas electronically. Imagine if in grade one they had made you dependent on electronics where would you be now. I predict a lot of the people who enter school and are handed a tablet now will grow up to be isolated people in later years. Nobody and I mean nobody should be told to rely on a pad until they are at least in the third grad. And then it should be a reliable product with intelligent programs on it.

Some one else mentioned the eye sight. I don't know if it will make a difference but I use big screens so I can have reasonable size words on it with out spending half my time scrolling down. When you get to be my age you learn to take things like that into consideration. In first grade I was invulnerable in my mind. Today I can reason with myself and along with experience realize that I am very vulnerable.

I just had a thought. If all are knowledge came from pad's computer's and what not electronic thingies these conversations would be a list of statistics and reference points.

"I predict a lot of the people who enter school and are handed a tablet now will grow up to be isolated people in later years."

huh???

your whole post comes across as extremely old fashioned and technophobic.

First check the number of my posts then get a dictionary and look up the word technophobic.

I am completely clueless as to how you can live in Thailand and think the teachers don't need upgrading. There are good teachers out there but most of the teachers just move the student along. That has to be stopped it is not good teaching.

I would take it that your belief is change nothing just give the student a pad when he first enters school and He will be getting a good education. And I don't mean a good education on how to play angry bird. In twelve years we will have a generation of mental giants.

Let me try to explain it to you this way. If your car blows a rod You don't put a new four barrel carburetor on it to fix the problem.

You fix the problem and then put the new four barrel carburetor on it to improve it's performance.

The same in the schools fix the teachers give the kids the time to mature mentally and learn to interact with each other then give them the pad to improve their learning.

Your post comes across as what ever the government says is really good.

"I am completely clueless as to how you can live in Thailand and think the teachers don't need upgrading"

yes evidently you are completely clueless because i never said this.

no my point is based on this issue, it's nothing to do with politics, unlike most of those who are crying foul.

[hellodolly]

Nuro. You live in a world of dreams. You cannot use a tablet in the same way as text books. The students write and draw in their books.

have you used an android tablet? Have you tried using a thai virtual keyboard. Its not easy. Even for some grown ups. Are the students to disregard writing skills?

sent from my Wellcom A90+

i wish i was living in a world of dreams, i love dreams.

unfortunately for me my comments are based on common sense.

"You cannot use a tablet in the same way as text books"

i meant as in books of learning, so yes, you can...

clearly you don't yet understand the capabilities of tablets.

and their introduction doesn't mean they won't teach the kids how to write!!!

Now you truly are dreaming.

Try underlining a sentence in a paragraph or highlighting it and see if it is there the next time you read that page if indeed the machine will let you do it. Try writing in the margins. These are methods I found very helpful in collage.

Your complete disregard for the need of a teacher and high ideals for a machine tell me you don't understand education.

Your idea of education seems to be the ability to google any thing you want. Or other search engines.

[OZEMADE]

I humbly suggest too few commentators have seen the engaging multi-sensory learning that can come from well designed (pedagogically, technically and visually) apps.

If you had you would soon become aware that much of our old style teaching is in fact regressive. Even the best of teachers will tell you that they hold back a majority of children with senseless repetition of examples of things they can already do, and are unable to explore the various learning methods of all the kids.

While I would never suggest that tablets should or even could be used to teach the whole curriculum, they are brilliant at engaging and especially so for the youngest of children. Audio, visual and even tactile (the screen buzzes under the finger) response can be given and the child is 100% engaged and well motivated to learn.

Tablets are TOUCH machines, What is more natural suitable for children than the tablet.

lastly, remember the set of encyclopedias you had at home. We had both Junior and the full set of adult Britannicas. Brittanica is now OUT OF PRINT, IT IS ONLINE ONLY. In 50 years how many books.

You really don't understand what a lot of are saying. We agree with you that their are problems with the way kids are being tought (see I can't even spell and I am old school and this fool machine can't help me) today. We say retrain the teachers. Don't leave them incapable and replace them with a pad. The first few years in school there brains are not yet mature. They are also learning to get along with others. Why throw all that away. It is things they will be able to use the rest of their life.

It is bad enough now with face book. We are raising a generation of people unable to work together unless it is done electronically. Bring on the pads in the late third grade and fourth grade. By this time if teachers are properly trained they will be able to reason for them selves. To work through problems for them selves.

To give a first grader a pad is no better than teaching by rote because he has not developed reasoning skills and you are just saying here is how it is done. No different than the teaching method they use today Educate your educators first.

A friend of mine just got his license to teach English. After a month they called him into the office. They wanted to know if he would be willing to teach another class. The thing was the students would be the other teachers.

I know you are a man of ideas out of the norm (good ones) but look at yourself mid fifties and here you are communicating ideas electronically. Imagine if in grade one they had made you dependent on electronics where would you be now. I predict a lot of the people who enter school and are handed a tablet now will grow up to be isolated people in later years. Nobody and I mean nobody should be told to rely on a pad until they are at least in the third grad. And then it should be a reliable product with intelligent programs on it.

Some one else mentioned the eye sight. I don't know if it will make a difference but I use big screens so I can have reasonable size words on it with out spending half my time scrolling down. When you get to be my age you learn to take things like that into consideration. In first grade I was invulnerable in my mind. Today I can reason with myself and along with experience realize that I am very vulnerable.

I just had a thought. If all are knowledge came from pad's computer's and what not electronic thingies these conversations would be a list of statistics and reference points.

"I predict a lot of the people who enter school and are handed a tablet now will grow up to be isolated people in later years."

huh???

your whole post comes across as extremely old fashioned and technophobic.

First check the number of my posts then get a dictionary and look up the word technophobic.

I am completely clueless as to how you can live in Thailand and think the teachers don't need upgrading. There are good teachers out there but most of the teachers just move the student along. That has to be stopped it is not good teaching.

I would take it that your belief is change nothing just give the student a pad when he first enters school and He will be getting a good education. And I don't mean a good education on how to play angry bird. In twelve years we will have a generation of mental giants.

Let me try to explain it to you this way. If your car blows a rod You don't put a new four barrel carburetor on it to fix the problem.

You fix the problem and then put the new four barrel carburetor on it to improve it's performance.

The same in the schools fix the teachers give the kids the time to mature mentally and learn to interact with each other then give them the pad to improve their learning.

Your post comes across as what ever the government says is really good.

Or you could download the mechanics manual and learn how to do it bit by bit off the computer, as most car manufacturers now advise you to get your manuals etc off the internet in the language you speak.

[thaicbr]

Not in a lot of Thai schools you couldn't. They dont have internet access

Ps. I think you are referring to the user manual not workshop manual. Good luck fixing a damaged engine with the user manual.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Edited July 19, 2012 by thaicbr