Fake Document Got Abhisit His Military Job, Defence Ministry Says

[Reasonableman]

Now, did Abhisit knowingly use a fake document.........?

I believe so, if not, he would have posted the document on his Facebook, instead of conveniently say "Oooops....., I lost it for a second time".

Was it reported somewhere in the press that Abhisit said he also lost the duplicate conscription certificate? The news article in the OP says this:

Defence Minister ACM Sukampol Suwannathat has set up a fact-finding team on the matter. The Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy later sent documents relating to Abhisit's application for the job to the probe team but that no original Sor Dor 9 document was found.

What is it with this conscription certificate? Is it an original document that a man is given on the day of his conscription, and is it an important document, like for example the original birth certificate, that he should make sure to keep for the rest of his life? But if this were so, why would the Academy have looked for the original, respectively the original of the duplicate certificate, in the documents Abhisit submitted with his job application?

The fake docs would have been ashes by now.

You know burn by who.

The same post again and again. If no-one is convinced by now, they will never be, and your continuing to beat the same dead horse is not helping your argument, if there is one.

Biased fact-free speculation and bovine bleating is not an argument. Do you have anything new to contribute, or is it just more of the same?

[culicine]

Yes, it would be interesting to see how many of the current crop of politicians actually did their military service, without the use of fake documents. Hope the PTP didn't open a can of worms they can't close!!

[binjalin]

so we wait and see? he'll find a way out anyway as he's a part of the 'amart' and will be protected 'unless' there really was a 'slip-up' and it can't be brushed aside. One thing for sure they are working very, very hard to find a way out - and they probably will - if they don't maybe Thailand really IS changing, now wouldn't that be something??? (the majority of old, traditionalist, deferential voter type TVF posters won't like it of course)

BS, utter BS. There seems a discrepancy between two documents (from 1986/1984), the MoD has cancelled a newsconference abruptly. So obviously and clear for all to see, k. Abhisit finds a way out? He must be guilty for sure, binjalin thinks so

misquoting again? I never said he was guilty - far from it - simply made the point that ANYONE from that 'section' of society will find a way out of it. I actually said

'wait and see'? which part of this did you not understand? the 'wait', 'and', or the 'see' part? oh hang on... you are a staunch defender of the 'traditional - 'no change, won't change' camp aren't you? forgot about that

[binjalin]

Yes, it would be interesting to see how many of the current crop of politicians actually did their military service, without the use of fake documents. Hope the PTP didn't open a can of worms they can't close!!

I am against it from whatever camp frankly but this will be shut down VERY quickly... unless....

[rubl]

so we wait and see? he'll find a way out anyway as he's a part of the 'amart' and will be protected 'unless' there really was a 'slip-up' and it can't be brushed aside. One thing for sure they are working very, very hard to find a way out - and they probably will - if they don't maybe Thailand really IS changing, now wouldn't that be something??? (the majority of old, traditionalist, deferential voter type TVF posters won't like it of course)

BS, utter BS. There seems a discrepancy between two documents (from 1986/1984), the MoD has cancelled a newsconference abruptly. So obviously and clear for all to see, k. Abhisit finds a way out? He must be guilty for sure, binjalin thinks so

misquoting again? I never said he was guilty - far from it - simply made the point that ANYONE from that 'section' of society will find a way out of it. I actually said

'wait and see'? which part of this did you not understand? the 'wait', 'and', or the 'see' part? oh hang on... you are a staunch defender of the 'traditional - 'no change, won't change' camp aren't you? forgot about that

The "he'll find a way out anyway as he's a part of the 'amart' and will be protected" shows a subtleness one rarily finds, except on TV that is. Never said he was guilty, only indicated 'he'll find a way to get out'. Now this may surprise you, but when not guilty, there is no need to find a way out and till now he's even innocent, even the DoD seems to start having doubts about linking a possibly incorrect typed document 24 or 26 years ago with criminal conduct.

The 'protected' and 'amart' probably means the statement today "Army chief General Prayuth Chanocha Tuesday said critics of Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva must have fresh evidence in order to reopen the probe into his conscription as the case was closed since 1999 after finding no wrongdoing." you'll brush under the table.

"so we wait and see?" suggests you doubt why a 'wait and see', or was the question mark a typo? Can happen.

Lastly, you're correct in assuming I am a defender of the traditional, but not "no change, won't change", more of 'rule of law', 'innocent till proven guilty', 'democratic rule', "even fools and idiots have a role to play in TV". Things like that

Edited July 24, 2012 by rubl

[davidstipek]

No not a red shirt. Just have rose tinted glasses

If these lot had ANYTHING of substance on Abhisit they would have their red mouthpieces shouting from the roof tops. The fact they are regurgitating old news shows they have nothing.

I ask again are there ANY serving politicians that have ever served in the army due to conscription?

I believe not. If not how did they manage it.

Many MPs from all political parties including cabinet ministers, volunteered or were in other branches of service that satisfied national service requirements. It is the tie that binds so many of them with class friendships and loyalties. Current examples are Pracha Promnok, Minister of Justice, Defence Minister Suwannathat, Technology Minister Nakornthap, Deputy PM Sasiprapha etc.

Question... Using Logic If anyone orders a duplicate copy of something from Goverment...Army...Navy so on and It is picked up, signed for as who received document... Then it is latter found out to be a forgery....

Who Forged the Document in my possession? Me or the Goverment, Army, Navy....?

If it suppose to be a copy of the Original... why is it not? Who altered data on it before delivering to my possession??

Think About it!!!!!

If the ORIGINAL... DOES NOT MATCH WHAT I WAS OFFERED.... WHO...WHERE...WHY....

If I don't have a copy in my possession it would be hard placed for me to dispute what I was given as true or falsified Document, I anyone could at the spur of a moment, they would be on the right hand of our Father...

Also.. was Abhisit attending Oxford University when... from what Dates... would not this give him an excuse for not serving when he was 21 years old?????

[Thai at Heart]

My question is NOT redundant as it was specific to conscription not career choice. Also I was the one that had already explained the cadet part many posts ago.

Volunteering would imply no money being sought were in fact they are paid. So a career decision.

Their career decisions are based on the buddy network.

Most if not all well to do families have a police man in the family it helps smooth things over if necessary.

Also with all of your comments in mind then Abhisit teaching at the Royal Military Academy also complies he did his service .

How can someone be conscripted if they have already done their service?

In respect to the heroic Mr. Abhisit having "taught" at Royal Chulachomklao Military Academy in 1987, the court will decide if such a position excuses Mr. Abhisit's alleged failure to report for conscription when he reached the age of 21 in 1985. And therein lies the legal issue. If one is required to report for conspriction and does not, does a cushy job 2 years later excuse the non-reporting? Do you think it does?

Not in most parts of the world

[thaicbr]

My question is NOT redundant as it was specific to conscription not career choice. Also I was the one that had already explained the cadet part many posts ago.

Volunteering would imply no money being sought were in fact they are paid. So a career decision.

Their career decisions are based on the buddy network.

Most if not all well to do families have a police man in the family it helps smooth things over if necessary.

Also with all of your comments in mind then Abhisit teaching at the Royal Military Academy also complies he did his service .

How can someone be conscripted if they have already done their service?

In respect to the heroic Mr. Abhisit having "taught" at Royal Chulachomklao Military Academy in 1987, the court will decide if such a position excuses Mr. Abhisit's alleged failure to report for conscription when he reached the age of 21 in 1985. And therein lies the legal issue. If one is required to report for conspriction and does not, does a cushy job 2 years later excuse the non-reporting? Do you think it does?

Not in most parts of the world

Most parts of the world dont still do conscription unless in the event of war. Also it has already been stated wayyyyyyy back in 1999 that everything was in order.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[Thai at Heart]

The issue us how can any man lecture at Oxford, get a.masters, lecture at Oxford, lecture at thammasat, lecture at a military college and gain degrees all in 5 years between, 85 and 90.

Superman?

[Thai at Heart]

My question is NOT redundant as it was specific to conscription not career choice. Also I was the one that had already explained the cadet part many posts ago.

Volunteering would imply no money being sought were in fact they are paid. So a career decision.

Their career decisions are based on the buddy network.

Most if not all well to do families have a police man in the family it helps smooth things over if necessary.

Also with all of your comments in mind then Abhisit teaching at the Royal Military Academy also complies he did his service .

How can someone be conscripted if they have already done their service?

In respect to the heroic Mr. Abhisit having "taught" at Royal Chulachomklao Military Academy in 1987, the court will decide if such a position excuses Mr. Abhisit's alleged failure to report for conscription when he reached the age of 21 in 1985. And therein lies the legal issue. If one is required to report for conspriction and does not, does a cushy job 2 years later excuse the non-reporting? Do you think it does?

Not in most parts of the world

Most parts of the world dont still do conscription unless in the event of war. Also it has already been stated wayyyyyyy back in 1999 that everything was in order.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

In 87 he was reportedly somewhere between his masters at Oxford and embarking on a degree at ramkhamhaeng

[binjalin]

so we wait and see? he'll find a way out anyway as he's a part of the 'amart' and will be protected 'unless' there really was a 'slip-up' and it can't be brushed aside. One thing for sure they are working very, very hard to find a way out - and they probably will - if they don't maybe Thailand really IS changing, now wouldn't that be something??? (the majority of old, traditionalist, deferential voter type TVF posters won't like it of course)

BS, utter BS. There seems a discrepancy between two documents (from 1986/1984), the MoD has cancelled a newsconference abruptly. So obviously and clear for all to see, k. Abhisit finds a way out? He must be guilty for sure, binjalin thinks so

misquoting again? I never said he was guilty - far from it - simply made the point that ANYONE from that 'section' of society will find a way out of it. I actually said

'wait and see'? which part of this did you not understand? the 'wait', 'and', or the 'see' part? oh hang on... you are a staunch defender of the 'traditional - 'no change, won't change' camp aren't you? forgot about that

The "he'll find a way out anyway as he's a part of the 'amart' and will be protected" shows a subtleness one rarily finds, except on TV that is. Never said he was guilty, only indicated 'he'll find a way to get out'. Now this may surprise you, but when not guilty, there is no need to find a way out and till now he's even innocent, even the DoD seems to start having doubts about linking a possibly incorrect typed document 24 or 26 years ago with criminal conduct.

The 'protected' and 'amart' probably means the statement today "Army chief General Prayuth Chanocha Tuesday said critics of Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva must have fresh evidence in order to reopen the probe into his conscription as the case was closed since 1999 after finding no wrongdoing." you'll brush under the table.

"so we wait and see?" suggests you doubt why a 'wait and see', or was the question mark a typo? Can happen.

Lastly, you're correct in assuming I am a defender of the traditional, but not "no change, won't change", more of 'rule of law', 'innocent till proven guilty', 'democratic rule', "even fools and idiots have a role to play in TV". Things like that

haha funny but I liked 'democratic rule' so you should forever shut up your ranting as the PTP WON the election right? Still Yunla 'likes' your post so you must feel good about that

[Robby nz]

I wonder how much energy and money they have spent to try to get something on him.

So if its true then finally they have.

But so what if he told a lie back in 1986 or 88 they have had to go a long way back to find anything.

Wasnt it the bible that said something about looking at yourself before looking at others?

A thought, does that mean he is qualified to join PT?

Again I ask, why are you so certain that it is the PTP that "got him"?

Leaks of confidential information typically come from inside sources. Is it not conceivable, this might be a political settling of accounts from some in the military or part of an attempt to replace Abhisit? Politics in Thailand is cut throat and there is no loyalty. One need only look how some abandoned Thaksin for the Democrats, but in the past year have came back with their tails between their legs.

Hay Gerry

where did I say that PTP have "got him"

Only mention I made of PT was to comment that having dishonesty in his background may Qualify him for a PT post.

I wonder however who gave an order for him to be investigated?

And did they at the same time order that all former PM"s be looked at?.

Surely the DSI has more pressing things to look into.

[phiphidon]

The issue us how can any man lecture at Oxford, get a.masters, lecture at Oxford, lecture at thammasat, lecture at a military college and gain degrees all in 5 years between, 85 and 90.

Superman?

No lunch breaks, Oh, and lecture "briefly"

While his rivals have accused him of being a deserter who avoided conscription, Abhisit taught briefly at Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy before returning to Oxford to pursue a Master's degree in Economics. He then became a lecturer in economics at Thammasat University before entering politics 16 years ago.

http://www.nationmul...cs_30091072.php

Edited July 25, 2012 by phiphidon

[Thai at Heart]

My question is NOT redundant as it was specific to conscription not career choice. Also I was the one that had already explained the cadet part many posts ago.

Volunteering would imply no money being sought were in fact they are paid. So a career decision.

Their career decisions are based on the buddy network.

Most if not all well to do families have a police man in the family it helps smooth things over if necessary.

Also with all of your comments in mind then Abhisit teaching at the Royal Military Academy also complies he did his service .

How can someone be conscripted if they have already done their service?

In respect to the heroic Mr. Abhisit having "taught" at Royal Chulachomklao Military Academy in 1987, the court will decide if such a position excuses Mr. Abhisit's alleged failure to report for conscription when he reached the age of 21 in 1985. And therein lies the legal issue. If one is required to report for conspriction and does not, does a cushy job 2 years later excuse the non-reporting? Do you think it does?

Not in most parts of the world

Most parts of the world dont still do conscription unless in the event of war. Also it has already been stated wayyyyyyy back in 1999 that everything was in order.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

There are plenty of countries in the world that have some form of military service. I had a turkish friend who had been educated and working for a large MNC for about 5 years, and was by the time of the story about 28 years old, and made the mistake of transiting a plane in Istanbul airport on a business trip. After a rather frantic phone call back to his boss, he was off to eastern Turkey for a few years to fight the Kurds.

[binjalin]

"so you should forever shut up your ranting as the PTP WON the election right?"

By their words shall ye know them.

Freedom of speech is actually guaranteed under the [current] Constitution.

Section 45. A person shall enjoy the liberty to express his opinion, make speech, write, print, publicise, and make expression by other means.

except for LM of course - oh but you 'forgot' to mention that part of 'free speech' right? by their words you shall INDEED know them

[thaicbr]

TaH said.

There are plenty of countries in the world that have some form of military service. I had a turkish friend who had been educated and working for a large MNC for about 5 years, and was by the time of the story about 28 years old, and made the mistake of transiting a plane in Istanbul airport on a business trip. After a rather frantic phone call back to his boss, he was off to eastern Turkey for a few years to fight the Kurds.

You are correct many countries 31 including Thailand. 9 with ltd service or alt service

Alternative civilian service is service to a government made as a civilian, particularly such service as an option for conscripted persons who are conscientious objectors and object to military service.

Civilian service is usually performed in the service of non-profit governmental bodies or other institutions. For example, in Germany (before conscription was abolished), those in civilian service worked extensively in healthcare facilities and retirement homes, while other countries have a wider variety of possible placements.

Common synonyms for the term are alternative service, civilian service, non-military service and substitute service.

and 3 with ltd military service as army cadet etc. this includes Thailand.

sourde http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription

[metisdead]

A post in which a member's name had been changed to a deceased terrorist has been removed as well as responses to that post. Use member's names correctly.

[Noistar]

The issue us how can any man lecture at Oxford, get a.masters, lecture at Oxford, lecture at thammasat, lecture at a military college and gain degrees all in 5 years between, 85 and 90.

Superman?

And all without the benefit of not speaking English

[thaicbr]

The issue us how can any man lecture at Oxford, get a.masters, lecture at Oxford, lecture at thammasat, lecture at a military college and gain degrees all in 5 years between, 85 and 90.

Superman?

And all without the benefit of not speaking English

Huh. Abhisit speaks english!

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[metisdead]

Misspellings and grammatical errors can make posts difficult to understand. However English is not always the first language of our members so don't waste space correcting other members' grammar and spelling where it isn't necessary.

Posts criticizing others about grammar/spelling mistakes have been removed.

[chotthee]

The issue us how can any man lecture at Oxford, get a.masters, lecture at Oxford, lecture at thammasat, lecture at a military college and gain degrees all in 5 years between, 85 and 90.

Superman?

And all without the benefit of not speaking English

Huh. Abhisit speaks english!

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Yes he was superman. Would Thailand settle for anything less, to be a PM?

I.e. Yingkuck is supergirl.

[OzMick]

How can someone be conscripted if they have already done their service?

In respect to the heroic Mr. Abhisit having "taught" at Royal Chulachomklao Military Academy in 1987, the court will decide if such a position excuses Mr. Abhisit's alleged failure to report for conscription when he reached the age of 21 in 1985. And therein lies the legal issue. If one is required to report for conspriction and does not, does a cushy job 2 years later excuse the non-reporting? Do you think it does?

Not in most parts of the world

Conscription can usually be deferred for a limited period if you are studying. When you complete your studies, most military organisations will recognise your skills and apply them appropriately, sometimes after a period of basic training.

Qualified doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc are rarely used as infantry - they are deployed to "cushy" jobs.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Rimmer
Indirect flame on another member

[Ferangled]

How can someone be conscripted if they have already done their service?

In respect to the heroic Mr. Abhisit having "taught" at Royal Chulachomklao Military Academy in 1987, the court will decide if such a position excuses Mr. Abhisit's alleged failure to report for conscription when he reached the age of 21 in 1985. And therein lies the legal issue. If one is required to report for conspriction and does not, does a cushy job 2 years later excuse the non-reporting? Do you think it does?

Not in most parts of the world

You allow yourself to be deluded by GK's stupidity. Conscription can usually be deferred for a limited period if you are studying. When you complete your studies, most military organisations will recognise your skills and apply them appropriately, sometimes after a period of basic training.

Qualified doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc are rarely used as infantry - they are deployed to "cushy" jobs.

I was unaware that Abhisit was a qualified doctor, lawyer or engineer... I thought he'd studied politics and economics but I guess given the Thai military's direct involvement in both of these areas, these are both of the utmost importance to them!

[OzMick]

You allow yourself to be deluded by GK's stupidity. Conscription can usually be deferred for a limited period if you are studying. When you complete your studies, most military organisations will recognise your skills and apply them appropriately, sometimes after a period of basic training.

Qualified doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc are rarely used as infantry - they are deployed to "cushy" jobs.

I was unaware that Abhisit was a qualified doctor, lawyer or engineer... I thought he'd studied politics and economics but I guess given the Thai military's direct involvement in both of these areas, these are both of the utmost importance to them!

I believe Abhisit's qualifications would be covered by "etc". Though most subjects taught at military colleges come under the general classification of "Killing" there are others, including Political science and Economics.

[phiphidon]

How can someone be conscripted if they have already done their service?

In respect to the heroic Mr. Abhisit having "taught" at Royal Chulachomklao Military Academy in 1987, the court will decide if such a position excuses Mr. Abhisit's alleged failure to report for conscription when he reached the age of 21 in 1985. And therein lies the legal issue. If one is required to report for conspriction and does not, does a cushy job 2 years later excuse the non-reporting? Do you think it does?

Not in most parts of the world

You allow yourself to be deluded by GK's stupidity. Conscription can usually be deferred for a limited period if you are studying. When you complete your studies, most military organisations will recognise your skills and apply them appropriately, sometimes after a period of basic training.

Qualified doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc are rarely used as infantry - they are deployed to "cushy" jobs.

"most military organisations will recognise your skills and apply them appropriately"

Yes as most people know he is good at talking. Some say that's all he's good at but then he gets upset and writes about it on his facebook page. Poor love...............

[phiphidon]

You allow yourself to be deluded by GK's stupidity. Conscription can usually be deferred for a limited period if you are studying. When you complete your studies, most military organisations will recognise your skills and apply them appropriately, sometimes after a period of basic training.

Qualified doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc are rarely used as infantry - they are deployed to "cushy" jobs.

I was unaware that Abhisit was a qualified doctor, lawyer or engineer... I thought he'd studied politics and economics but I guess given the Thai military's direct involvement in both of these areas, these are both of the utmost importance to them!

I believe Abhisit's qualifications would be covered by "etc". Though most subjects taught at military colleges come under the general classification of "Killing" there are others, including Political science and Economics.

Well he's pretty much au faux with all three of those political skills.

[OzMick]

You allow yourself to be deluded by GK's stupidity. Conscription can usually be deferred for a limited period if you are studying. When you complete your studies, most military organisations will recognise your skills and apply them appropriately, sometimes after a period of basic training.

Qualified doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc are rarely used as infantry - they are deployed to "cushy" jobs.

I was unaware that Abhisit was a qualified doctor, lawyer or engineer... I thought he'd studied politics and economics but I guess given the Thai military's direct involvement in both of these areas, these are both of the utmost importance to them!

I believe Abhisit's qualifications would be covered by "etc". Though most subjects taught at military colleges come under the general classification of "Killing" there are others, including Political science and Economics.

Well he's pretty much au faux with all three of those political skills.

When you attempt to appear clever by using a foreign expression, you must realise that botching it has the reverse effect. Not being a Francophone, I would use the good old English word "familiar".

[OZEMADE]

Getting back to the thread.

1. I did read in another newspaper that, the matter had been investigated by the Army some 10 yrs.’ ago and that YES some documents had been forged and some officers had been punished.
   

So if all above board and there was nothing wrong, why were the officers punished.

1. The Defense Ministry has found that a falsified military document was used when opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva applied to serve as a lecturer at the Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy.
   

http://www.nationmul...e-30186684.html

[rubl]

Well as some indicated, the case of the possibly fake papers seems somewhat confusing.

"Army chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha yesterday said critics of Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva must have fresh evidence in order to reopen the probe into his conscription as the case was closed since 1999 after finding no wrongdoing."

http://www.thaivisa....hisits-critics/

"Defence Minister ACM Sukampol Suwannathat yesterday abruptly cancelled a press conference scheduled for today to explain the findings of his ministry"

http://www.thaivisa....scription-case/

So let me say once more, let the Ombudsman who's office received all documents investigate and tell us before the floods start again and we forget about this case.

(PS, raining heavily in Bangkok, second time today)

[Ferangled]

Well he's pretty much au faux with all three of those political skills.

When you attempt to appear clever by using a foreign expression, you must realise that botching it has the reverse effect. Not being a Francophone, I would use the good old English word "familiar".

A minor faux pas, clearly the meaning was au fait... but way to get picky over spelling, again!

Incidentally did you mean Francophone or Francophile? Sorry, I find it hard not to get dragged down by the spelling/ grammar Nazis...