Gun-Toting British “Doctor” Arrested In Parking Dispute

[Basil B]

Just some facts...

UK Law: http://www.cps.gov.u...dial_sentences/

Firearms - Section 51A Firearms Act 1968 (as inserted by section 287 Criminal Justice Act 2003

Section 287 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 inserted a new section 51A into the Firearms Act 1968 that introduced a mandatory minimum sentence for the offence of possession, purchase, acquisition, manufacture, transfer or sale of certain prohibited weapons on or after 22 January 2004.

The section requires that a Crown Court shall impose a minimum sentence of:

• 5 years' imprisonment if the offender is aged 18 or over when convicted; or,
  
• 3 years detention under s. 91 PCC(S)A 2000 (long term detention) if the offender was under 18 but over 16 when the offence was committed.
  

Hand Guns: UK law http://en.wikipedia...._United_Kingdom

1997 Firearms Act

Following the Dunblane massacre, the government passed the Firearms (Amendment) (No2) act 1997 banning private ownership of handguns almost completely.

If as reported: he had it in a black bag, could have been anything in the bag, if it was found in the house then it could have been the wifes.

As usual a two line story elaborated just to get a few extra lines.

Another bit of Brit knocking again, describe the accused as a Brit when they are native of another country.

[theajarn]

Another <deleted> stupid farang. The worst I did when some fool parked just outside our gate was let the air in his tires loose. Took a while though. Another time though when someone came up to the gate with their car I just went outside and knocked on their window (to talk to them). They rolled the window down, waied, did the kho-toht thing, and drove away -- all before I was even able to speak.

There are better ways to handle things.

[PhilipCook]

I suggest the fine folks from the Pattaya City Government use some of their budget funds to visit Cheju, South Korea on a factfinding mission. Plenty to be learned from the Koreans and how they have maintained Cheju yet they welcome plenty of domestic and international visitors. Pattaya and other tourist places in Thailand could use some refinement. Raise the quality of the visitors to this country and you will raise the margins for all. Continue to allow anyone and frankly everyone to be here and you can see the results. Maybe this should be addressed to the TAT first and foremost.

[tragickingdom]

It is not at all to carry a gun as a foreigner. It is just al legal or illegal as a Thai carry a gun. It is a matter of the right papers and training. Luckily Batman starts later than in the US in Thailand..... Nobody should be allowed to carry a gun or knife. Only backward societies allow people to do so.

[doggie888888]

Another strange piece of reporting by a Pattaya "journalist" !!!

[RabC]

I feel for the good doctor. I hope they let him go with a weak fine and let him stay in the country. He's got his family and person to protect. In my country being able to protect yourself with a firearm is a right afforded to every law abiding citizen.

Colorado anyone??????

[TPI]

Illegal possession of most firearms carries a mandatory term of five years imprisonment in the UK. Possession of certain prohibited firearms, like automatic weapons, can carry up to a maximum prison sentence of 10 years.

I'm glad these large penalties and draconian anti gun laws have worked so well in the UK and other places!

[londoedan]

I suggest the fine folks from the Pattaya City Government use some of their budget funds to visit Cheju, South Korea on a factfinding mission. Plenty to be learned from the Koreans and how they have maintained Cheju yet they welcome plenty of domestic and international visitors. Pattaya and other tourist places in Thailand could use some refinement. Raise the quality of the visitors to this country and you will raise the margins for all. Continue to allow anyone and frankly everyone to be here and you can see the results. Maybe this should be addressed to the TAT first and foremost.

What the <deleted> are you on about ? An IQ test for all visa applicants ? Don't let anyone in that hasn't got a degree ? Means-testing ?

Elitist crap.

[londoedan]

Illegal possession of most firearms carries a mandatory term of five years imprisonment in the UK. Possession of certain prohibited firearms, like automatic weapons, can carry up to a maximum prison sentence of 10 years.

I'm glad these large penalties and draconian anti gun laws have worked so well in the UK and other places!

They have - thanks. Look at the stats.

[TPI]

The police informed Mr. Steve that foreigners by law are not allowed to own or carry guns in Thailand.

That is misinformation, and wrong. Foreigners CAN own and, can register the gun in Thailand, but can not carry them around. You can own it for your protection in the home or your business.

Yes, but they have to own a business and have a work permit, and also a clear criminal record from thier homecountry.

All gunn licenses is for having the gun at home, if you want to bring it around you will need a special license and in some provinces they not give these at all (like Phuket) !

The Police advised me to get my wife to purchase the pistols...what if he was taking it to shoot at an authorised range? Under the law, he can do that!

[kruangfaifar]

Illegal possession of most firearms carries a mandatory term of five years imprisonment in the UK. Possession of certain prohibited firearms, like automatic weapons, can carry up to a maximum prison sentence of 10 years.

The ammunition pictured with the pistol he was arrested with is hollow-point (designed to "mushroom" on impact, sometimes incorrectly called "dum-dums"). Its possession in the UK is illegal without the Home Secretary's direct written permission and it is prohibited under Section 5, so 10 years would not be unusual.

Dum Dum is not an incorrect name for this kind of bullet. It is a slang name that comes from the fact that an early version was produced at a British arsenal at a place called Dum Dum near Calcutta in 1896

[norrona]

whatever the reasons for this it's just another case of a well educated person losing it in Pattaya and doing something completely out of character, some people could just do with getting away from that place every now and then!

I bet he just wouldn't think of doing this back home on front of friends-family and neighbours

[candyman123]

The police informed Mr. Steve that foreigners by law are not allowed to own or carry guns in Thailand.

That is misinformation, and wrong. Foreigners CAN own and, can register the gun in Thailand, but can not carry them around. You can own it for your protection in the home or your business.

This is very true why do I know this because I have my own 45, and living here with my protection if needed.

[Baerboxer]

Gun ownership for farang in Thailand is prudent....who's going to respond to the midnight break-in....NO ONE!! I don't own one in this country because the country makes it very difficult. I do, however, own them in the USA for hunting and home protection; I've had to draw it for both purposes. The uk folks will say just outlaw them. That would be a good idea if it had been done 200 yrs ago. The fact is that, in the event of gun criminalization, the bad guys will still have them and we, law abiding americans, will not. There are a lot of pro's and cons

I'm from the UK - but completely agree with you, as would many others. Protecting your homes and family is a basic right. Society either provides this for you, or allows you to protect yourself. Criminals in the UK still carry guns, but citizens face draconian anti-gun laws. So you are reliant on being able to make an emergency call and the response time of the local police. I've lived in several countries and wouldn't want to risk my family's lives on the speed of the local police, not just Thailand. Like you, I don't own a gun in Thailand because of the difficulties. If it is wasn't so difficult then I certainly would.

[TPI]

[Don't know about you, but I'd rather pay the fine and live.

I don't think anyone should escalate a situation like this by carrying a loaded firearm. Seems like lunacy to me - what if he used it ? what if he dropped it ? what if he lost / mislaid it ? what if it was forcibly taken off him ? There are better ways to solve ones' problems, in all parts of the world, than brandishing weapons.

There is the truism "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"...It's a black night in down town Bangkok you're with your wife and young children trying to get to your car when you're confronted by half a dozen yobs ripped off their heads on "ice", there you go, negotiate your way out of that!

[londoedan]

[Don't know about you, but I'd rather pay the fine and live.

I don't think anyone should escalate a situation like this by carrying a loaded firearm. Seems like lunacy to me - what if he used it ? what if he dropped it ? what if he lost / mislaid it ? what if it was forcibly taken off him ? There are better ways to solve ones' problems, in all parts of the world, than brandishing weapons.

There is the truism "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"...It's a black night in down town Bangkok you're with your wife and young children trying to get to your car when you're confronted by half a dozen yobs ripped off their heads on "ice", there you go, negotiate your way out of that!

How often do you think this actually happens ?

I repeat the point made earlier by several posters and myself - believing that you can solve a parking dispute with a firearm is crackers and I'm glad the police have taken action and banged him up. Obviously we differ on this and I'm sure that there are lots of people that keep guns at home locked-up, act responsibility etc - my personal viewpoint is the fewer guns in circulation the better and that the UK government's response to Hungerford, Dunblane and Cumbia is spot-on.

Peace and at the start of the Moslem holy month, may I add: A'salam alaikum.

[Arkady]

Illegal possession of most firearms carries a mandatory term of five years imprisonment in the UK. Possession of certain prohibited firearms, like automatic weapons, can carry up to a maximum prison sentence of 10 years.

The ammunition pictured with the pistol he was arrested with is hollow-point (designed to "mushroom" on impact, sometimes incorrectly called "dum-dums"). Its possession in the UK is illegal without the Home Secretary's direct written permission and it is prohibited under Section 5, so 10 years would not be unusual.

Dum Dum is not an incorrect name for this kind of bullet. It is a slang name that comes from the fact that an early version was produced at a British arsenal at a place called Dum Dum near Calcutta in 1896

Hollow points are illegal for military use under the Hague convention but that doesn't cover law enforcement and civilian use. They are generally used by US PDs and available for purchase by citizens in the US and Thailand. Most of the Burapha gun stores carry them.

The US military doesn't need hollow points for its rifles because they have managed to more or less replicate the effects or worse with the M16 round that tumbles around in flight so that it causes maximum tissue and organ damage at 200 yards. Take a look at the pictures of wounds incurred by Palestinian civilians shot by the Israeli Defence Force with M16s provided by the US taxpayer, if you would like to see examples.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Arkady

[lovetotravel]

How often do you think this actually happens ?

I repeat the point made earlier by several posters and myself - believing that you can solve a parking dispute with a firearm is crackers and I'm glad the police have taken action and banged him up. Obviously we differ on this and I'm sure that there are lots of people that keep guns at home locked-up, act responsibility etc - my personal viewpoint is the fewer guns in circulation the better and that the UK government's response to Hungerford, Dunblane and Cumbia is spot-on.

Peace and at the start of the Moslem holy month, may I add: A'salam alaikum.

100% agree. Most people who own guns don't really know how to use them. I've owned many guns in the past, but today, wouldn't feel comfortable walking around with a pistol. Just been too long since I've dealt with one.

Many incidents like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayson_Williams

Manslaughter charges

On February 14, 2002, 55-year-old limousine driver Costas "Gus" Christofi was shot to death at Williams's estate in Alexandria Township, New Jersey.^[4] Christofi had been hired to drive Williams's NBA charity team from a Bethlehem, Pennsylvania event to his mansion, about 30 miles (48 km) northwest of Trenton, New Jersey. Members of Williams's NBA charity basketball team were present at the scene. The New York Post reported that Williams was playing with a shotgun while giving a tour of his 30,000-square-foot (2,800 m²) home when the weapon fired, killing Christofi.

He just did an interview after getting out of jail. He said he sure wishes he never owned a gun.

[Arkady]

Many Thais also carry gun, but I suppose the English one is bigger and more powerful which scare off the tiny Thai one.

A 9mm with 8 rounds is not a Dirty Harry .44 Magnum. Get a grip.

I think you should "get a grip" - a 9mm will kill just as well as a .44

Probably better, particularly after the first shot. A .44 Magnum kicks up in the air like a mule with a huge flash and puff of smoke that makes it very hard to get off a second shot accurately. It is quite unwieldy to aim the first one either due to its weight and length of barrel. It was originally marketing as bear gun but initial sales were so disappointing due its impractibility that Smith & Wesson planned to cease production. Then Dirty Harry came out and made S&M's day for them. With a 9mm semi auto you can pop off up to 15 caps fairly accurately in quick succession.

[Reasonableman]

Many Thais also carry gun, but I suppose the English one is bigger and more powerful which scare off the tiny Thai one.

A 9mm with 8 rounds is not a Dirty Harry .44 Magnum. Get a grip.

I think you should "get a grip" - a 9mm will kill just as well as a .44

Probably better, particularly after the first shot. A .44 Magnum kicks up in the air like a mule with a huge flash and puff of smoke that makes it very hard to get off a second shot accurately. It is quite unwieldy to aim the first one either due to its weight and length of barrel. It was originally marketing as bear gun but initial sales were so disappointing due its impractibility that Smith & Wesson planned to cease production. Then Dirty Harry came out and made S&M's day for them. With a 9mm semi auto you can pop off up to 15 caps fairly accurately in quick succession.

Yes, have fired the Ruger .44. On full loads, it kicks like a mule and is genuinely painful to use. A light piece of barely controllable field artillery. Are we still on topic?

[Arkady]

Under what circumstances can a foreigner own a gun (of any description ) in Thailand?

The national regulations don't mention anything about nationality and foreigners who make the cut are as eligible as Thais to get a gun licence. The regulations for a licence to keep a gun at home but not carry it in public require a tabien baan, a minimal amount of money in a bank account, a salary over a minimal amount and a letter from an employer confirming that the applicant is employed there and clearance from your local police station that you are a suitable character and not involved in any disputes. To carry a concealed gun in public you need the first licence which is your lifetime ownership permit and a carry licence. The regs for these change frequently but I the last time I looked there was also no mention of nationality. You have to have a very good reason for a concealed carry permit, like being an MP or a senator, in the jewellery business, or embassy security and they are valid only for one year renewable.

In the past the problem for most foreigners who wanted a permit was that only permanent residents could get a tabien baan which is a required document for a good reason, i.e. the permit allows you to keep the gun only at the address of your tabien baan. Since 2008 district offices have been require to issue yellow tabien baans to foreigners residing in their districts but I am not sure if the yellow tabien is accepted by the licensing authority. I suspect not as these are held only by foreigners on temporary visas and there is no telling what would happen to their guns, if they suddenly came to the end of their visas and left the country. If you are interested, contact the licensing authority in Lard Phrao. They are happy to issue permits to anyone who has the right documentation because they get tea money from every one who really wants his permit. I was in there once and for the hell of it asked what happened to applicants who only paid the official fee of B100 at the time and they told me they were subjected to more detailed scrutiny and would have to wait one or two years longer than others, if they managed to get through the process at all. Meanwhile the gun that you have purchased at the inflated Thai price is still sitting in the gun shop which is unable to hand it over to you.

The other problem that many foreigners have is that they don't live in Bangkok. The permits in the provinces are issued by the provincial police not the central licensing authority and the provincial governor is empowered to issue regulations that are stricter than national regs but not laxer. Thus some provincial authorities may have banned foreigners from owning guns. I remember that Phuket did this some years ago but I can't tell you if this is still in force.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Arkady

[attento]

Just some facts...

UK Law: http://www.cps.gov.u...dial_sentences/

Firearms - Section 51A Firearms Act 1968 (as inserted by section 287 Criminal Justice Act 2003

Section 287 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 inserted a new section 51A into the Firearms Act 1968 that introduced a mandatory minimum sentence for the offence of possession, purchase, acquisition, manufacture, transfer or sale of certain prohibited weapons on or after 22 January 2004.

The section requires that a Crown Court shall impose a minimum sentence of:

• 5 years' imprisonment if the offender is aged 18 or over when convicted; or,
  
• 3 years detention under s. 91 PCC(S)A 2000 (long term detention) if the offender was under 18 but over 16 when the offence was committed.
  

Hand Guns: UK law http://en.wikipedia...._United_Kingdom

1997 Firearms Act

Following the Dunblane massacre, the government passed the Firearms (Amendment) (No2) act 1997 banning private ownership of handguns almost completely.

If as reported: he had it in a black bag, could have been anything in the bag, if it was found in the house then it could have been the wifes.

As usual a two line story elaborated just to get a few extra lines.

Another bit of Brit knocking again, describe the accused as a Brit when they are native of another country.

I dont read this as Brit knocking. The guy is obviously substandard and should not expect any leniency for such idiotic behaviour.

Who would want to live in a country if they thought the only way to survive was by carrying firearms.

Having a PhD in engineering or a medical practitioner wife is irrelevant.

[MrRealDeal]

Bit of a dick walking around with a firearm.

What puzzles me is why the headline in the news article refers to his educational qualifications and then puts them in quotes, is the PDN trying to be ironic ?

It's because he has a Doctorate degree and is not a Medical Doctor not that uncommon in print to do that ...... I knew why before I read it.

[attento]

The police informed Mr. Steve that foreigners by law are not allowed to own or carry guns in Thailand.

That is misinformation, and wrong. Foreigners CAN own and, can register the gun in Thailand, but can not carry them around. You can own it for your protection in the home or your business.

Yes, but they have to own a business and have a work permit, and also a clear criminal record from thier homecountry.

All gunn licenses is for having the gun at home, if you want to bring it around you will need a special license and in some provinces they not give these at all (like Phuket) !

The Police advised me to get my wife to purchase the pistols...what if he was taking it to shoot at an authorised range? Under the law, he can do that!

Is the type of weapon he was carrying an appropriate one for target shooting?

[Arkady]

A 9mm with 8 rounds is not a Dirty Harry .44 Magnum. Get a grip.

I think you should "get a grip" - a 9mm will kill just as well as a .44

Probably better, particularly after the first shot. A .44 Magnum kicks up in the air like a mule with a huge flash and puff of smoke that makes it very hard to get off a second shot accurately. It is quite unwieldy to aim the first one either due to its weight and length of barrel. It was originally marketing as bear gun but initial sales were so disappointing due its impractibility that Smith & Wesson planned to cease production. Then Dirty Harry came out and made S&M's day for them. With a 9mm semi auto you can pop off up to 15 caps fairly accurately in quick succession.

Yes, have fired the Ruger .44. On full loads, it kicks like a mule and is genuinely painful to use. A light piece of barely controllable field artillery. Are we still on topic?

Not sure but fun. I thought it was quite fun to fire but had to wait and re-aim for subsequent shots. My friend who went to the range with me thought it was an appalling weapon and had had enough after only one shot. Apparently it can shoot clean through a moose at 50 yards with a non-expanding round.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Arkady

[Arkady]

The police informed Mr. Steve that foreigners by law are not allowed to own or carry guns in Thailand.

That is misinformation, and wrong. Foreigners CAN own and, can register the gun in Thailand, but can not carry them around. You can own it for your protection in the home or your business.

Yes, but they have to own a business and have a work permit, and also a clear criminal record from thier homecountry.

All gunn licenses is for having the gun at home, if you want to bring it around you will need a special license and in some provinces they not give these at all (like Phuket) !

The Police advised me to get my wife to purchase the pistols...what if he was taking it to shoot at an authorised range? Under the law, he can do that!

Is the type of weapon he was carrying an appropriate one for target shooting?

Technically you are not allowed to take your gun to the range or even to the repair shop, if you have a licence to own a gun to protect lives and property at your registered address. There is another type of licence for sporting guns but I think it is more complicated to get and most people just get the home licence even for trap and skeet guns which are obviously sporting guns. The licensing police advise you to carry the gun to the range unloaded and ammo should be in a separate part of the vehicle, so you obviously can't load it in a hurry. They say that, if you do this and carry a copy of your licence, ID and membership card of the shooting range you going to, any police who stop you will not have a problem, as they accept that you need to know how to shoot the gun and get it serviced. But there are no guarantees police will interpret the law this way.

If you own a gun in your wife's name, you had better be sure she is with you, if you take the gun to the range, or you could be in deep shi*t. The law does in fact permit you to fire someone else's gun in defence of life or property in the same emergency situation you can fire your own gun at your registered address. But this is not that well defined. The permit specifically refers to defence of property as well defence of life but I don't know to what extent you can justify shooting a thief who is not a threat to life and limb. I have seen reports of Thai householders who shot thieves escaping with their belongings with no suggestion that they were going to be arrested for use of excessive force and of one guy who shot an African intruder on the way out who didn't manage to even steal anything but had stabbed his dog (it survived) but I wouldn't advise a foreigner to try it. Police called to the scene of a break in routinely advise householders to buy a gun.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Arkady

[Cantankerous]

I suggest the fine folks from the Pattaya City Government use some of their budget funds to visit Cheju, South Korea on a factfinding mission. Plenty to be learned from the Koreans and how they have maintained Cheju yet they welcome plenty of domestic and international visitors. Pattaya and other tourist places in Thailand could use some refinement. Raise the quality of the visitors to this country and you will raise the margins for all. Continue to allow anyone and frankly everyone to be here and you can see the results. Maybe this should be addressed to the TAT first and foremost.

Allegedly the guy who apperently had an off day has a doctorate in engineering... Where would you start & stop with who should be allowed in? Perhaps you should have posted this as a new topic.

[Puccini]

...arrested for using a gun to scare people...police had received a report from the market people that a bald man wearing sun glasses was walking in front of Nana coffee shop, carrying a black bag that appeared to contain a gun...

Let's understand this correctly. The man did not carry the gun openly, did not wave it around nor point it at people. He carried it concealed in a bag. Still illegal, of course, to carry it outside his property even in such fashion.

Let us all be careful to place our things in a bag or in our pockets in such a way that it cannot give people the impression that we might be carrying a concealed gun, as otherwise people could get scared and call the police.

[Puccini]

...Some of them have been parking their cars in front of his house and blocking the entrance. He had reported the problem to the police, but the police responded that it was a public road, so anyone can park his or her car there...

We also must understand and accept that anyone is free to park a vehicle in front of our house in such a way that it blocks the entrance, preventing us from driving in or out of our hose. The police can do nothing about this if the road is a public road.

[sirchai]

along with police forces and police volunteers..........

I'm a volunteer for them as well, but I consider myself a good one.

Please conform that "Mr. Hummer" isn't back on Pattaya's roads.....