Whey Protein - Beware Of Fithwey.Com!

[Tolley]

I dont think you read this so I am cutting and pasting it. This guys background is the following and notice all the collaborative research he quotes at the end:

So my concern is many of the products are using pasteurised milk ergo I would prefer to use a whey not made from pasteurised milk given what is set out below.

Dr Dingle has spent the past twenty years as a researcher, educator and communicator. He has a Bachelor of Education in Science, a Bachelor of Environmental Science with first class honours and a PhD (1994). He has more than 100 scientifically reviewed papers, 10 books including A supplement A day Keeps the doctor away, the great Cholesterol Deception and Take control and realise your potential. He conducts ongoing research into diet and nutrition, lifestyle and environmental impacts on health, well being and productivity. Dr D is one of the rare speakers who conducts and presents his own professional research. He is internationally recognised and often quoted by other speakers.

Milk, the poison

Thursday, October 13, 2011 at 09:44PM

In my other blog on milk I explained why milk is not a great source of calcium for humans. Now it is time to look at the health problems associated with milk.

Evidence has been steadily mounting during the past few decades of the potential negative effects of dairy on human health from colic and gut disorders to cancer. Milk is associated with many digestive disorders, poor gut health, food intolerances and allergies. Many children develop food intolerances to milk which, at the very least, cause overproduction of mucous and lots of phlegm and runny noses. Worse, these intolerances can cause severe allergic symptoms. This is often related to the negative impact dairy products have on the gut. Associated with this I have seen colic clear up in many infants once they are taken off dairy.

Lactose intolerance is a “condition” in which the body cannot digest the sugar efficiently (or at all), leading to poor gut health and excess mucous, acid and gas production and varying degrees of abdominal discomfort 1. People with lactose intolerance also experience reduced absorption in the gastrointestinal system 2. Approximately 75% of the world’s population (particularly in Eastern countries such as China, India, Africa and in minority populations such as Australian Aboriginals and Native Americans) has a level of lactose intolerance 1, and it is now generally accepted that this “condition” is actually the norm for the human species. It is more prevalent in Asians (about 85%) and African Americans (about 50%) than Caucasians (about 10%). It should be highlighted that the inability to digest lactose is exacerbated by pasteurisation destroying all the enzymes naturally found in milk that would normally help with digestion of the milk.

A food allergy is an abnormal immunological response due to a sensitisation to a food or food component. It represents an important health problem, especially in industrialised countries where it has been estimated to affect about 1% to 2% of the adult population and up to 8% of children below the age of three 3. As far as statistics go, cow’s milk allergy can be considered one of the most common food allergies, especially in early childhood with an incidence of 2% to 3% in the first years of life 4.

If an allergic reaction develops it is not always due to the dietary habits of the infant. A baby can be exposed to the proteins that cause an allergic response. Breast milk from mothers who have consumed products containing cow’s milk might be another threat for the development of cow’s milk allergy due to the absorption of cow proteins, their passage through the gut mucosa and their release in human milk 4. Antibody reactivity to bovine casein as well as to casein and lactoglobulin is detectable only in bottle-fed infants and not in infants who are exclusively breast-fed5.

Hormones and growth factors

Many of the bioactive components of milk contain hormones and growth factors. Milk contains more than 50 hormones and growth factors 6. The consumption of cow’s milk can result in significant hormonal changes and disrupt the balance of insulin, growth hormones and insulin-like growth factors (IGF) 7. Insulin Growth Factor One (IGF-1) is intended to assist suckling calves to grow and produce new tissue through the prolific reproduction of cells 8. However, when this hormone is introduced to the adult human body, which is no longer growing, cells may be encouraged to reproduce at the wrong time or place, providing the basis for cancerous growth 9. Cow’s milk and human’s milk share the same amino acid sequence of IGF and therefore the cow form is capable of binding to human IGF 10. Numerous studies have shown a link between these hormone levels and levels of IGF in prepubertal boys and girls 11 and as a result such levels have been positively correlated with increased height 12,13. The levels of IGF-1 in dairy milk may have increased significantly with the increase in milk production per cow since the beginning of the agricultural revolution. This problem is compounded in the US where they can add IGFs to milking cows to increase milk production. There is some scientific debate whether homogenisation allows the hormone to be digested and consequently reach the bloodstream 14.

Cancer

Insulin Growth Factor One (IGF-1) has been linked with numerous types of cancer, including prostate and breast cancer 15,16 and cow’s milk consumption has been strongly associated with an increase in hormone-dependent cancers 17. A large study, a meta-analysis, found that high intake of dairy products and calcium was associated with an increased risk of prostate cancer. Researchers found men with the highest intake of dairy products were more likely to develop prostate cancer than men with the lowest intake 18. Dose-response analyses suggested that dairy product and calcium intakes were each positively associated with the risk of prostate cancer. That is, the more dairy consumed, the higher the rates of prostate cancer 19,20,21. One study found a 5.1 times higher risk of advanced stage prostate cancer 22 while another found that milk consumption was most strongly associated with mortality rates of prostate cancer 19. A strong link has also been found between dairy consumption and testicular cancer 24,25,26.

A study of 3,300 cancer patients and 1,300 control subjects 27 comparing milk and dairy intake between the two groups found a significant association between the exclusive consumption of whole milk and increased risk of certain cancers (e.g., oral, stomach, rectum, lung, breast, etc.). Most of the subjects in the control group were drinkers of reduced fat milk or non-fat milk, linking the reduction in saturated fat to a reduction in oral and cervical cancers. A number of other studies have linked dairy consumption with breast cancer 28-32 as well as ovarian cancer 33.

Diabetes mellitus (type 1)

Cow’s milk-based infant formulas and cow’s milk consumption in childhood have been found to promote the development of type 1 diabetes mellitus and other immune-mediated or neurological diseases. The introduction of cow’s milk-based infant formula within the first three months of life is associated with increased risk of type 1 diabetes mellitus 34-38 and there are more than 100 studies linking early exposure to dairy milk to the onset of diabetes mellitus (type 1) in children who are genetically prone to the disease 37-43. The evidence for this association is overwhelming. Furthermore, in animal models of type 1 diabetes mellitus, cow’s milk proteins have been proven to lead to the development of diabetes.

In a study on newly diagnosed type 1 diabetes, researchers found that the children in the study had antibodies that were primed to attack cow’s milk proteins. These antibodies had apparently risen in response to cow proteins in their infant formula, but the antibodies were also capable of attacking the body’s insulin-producing cells. The antibodies that arose to destroy the cow’s milk protein ended up attacking the children’s insulin-producing cells. The infant’s immune system recognises these bovine proteins as foreign and forms antibodies to attack them. Unfortunately, these antibodies attack not only the cow proteins but also the insulin-producing cells in the pancreas.

There is so much concern about this that a worldwide study has begun in which children are being kept off all cow’s milk to see whether diabetes can be prevented 7.

Multiple sclerosis

Evidence dating back to 1976 44 shows that cow’s milk consumption is linked with the development of multiple sclerosis (MS) 45-48. One study of dairy consumption in 27 countries and 29 populations around the world found a strong correlation between liquid cow’s milk and MS prevalence; interestingly no such correlation was found with cream, butter or cheese 42.

A number of cow’s milk proteins have now been shown to be targeted by the immune cells of people with MS 7. Further, injecting the proteins into experimental animals has caused lesions to appear in the central nervous systems of the animals. Other researchers have demonstrated how certain proteins in cow’s milk mimic part of myelin oligodendrocyte glycoprotein, the part of myelin thought to initiate the autoimmune reaction in MS49.

Parkinson’s disease

Milk has also been linked to Parkinson’s disease (PD). Researchers found that among more than 130,000 U.S. adults followed for nine years, those who consumed the largest amount of dairy foods had an increased risk of developing Parkinson’s disease 50. Men with the highest levels of dairy consumption were 60% more likely to develop the disease than those who consumed the least amounts of dairy, particularly milk 50-54. This supports earlier findings about dairy intake and the development of PD: the same authors studied men with high dairy consumption and found that those men had an 80% higher risk. Women with moderate dairy intake were also found to be in the high-risk range for PD.

A study found that Japanese-American men in Honolulu, Hawaii who consumed more than 0.5 litres of milk per day had a 130% higher risk of PD than men who did not drink milk 52. In a study in which a total of 128 participants developed Parkinson’s disease, the risk of Parkinson’s disease increased as the amount of milk consumed each day rose. Heavy milk drinkers—those who consumed more than 16 ounces (454g) per day—were more than twice as likely to develop Parkinson’s disease than non-milk drinkers 52.

Heart disease

Epidemiological evidence suggests that per capita consumption of milk proteins and milk is associated with national mortality rates from heart attack or stroke 55-58. Although it does not appear to be associated with the saturated fat consumption.

Acne

Milk consumption results in significantly elevated blood levels of IGF-1 in prepubertal and pubertal individuals as well as young adults which is associated with acne 59-62.

Not a great food

Cow’s milk is not a great food for humans. What I have presented here is just a small fraction of the scientific literature highlighting the problems with milk. Perhaps in the future we will see health warnings on milk containers. Unfortunately, we have been sold a deceptive message for more than 50 years so everyone believes that “milk does a body good.”

No other animal on this planet consumes milk beyond infancy or another animals milk. Despite this humans are the only animal that suffer form such high rates of chronic illness. To complicate this equation even further we destroy many of the healthful qualities of milk by pasteurisation including enzymes and antioxidants, we then mix the fat and liquid together through homeginastion and we still call it a natural food. What beneficial qualities milk might have in very small quantities, they no longer exist when we process them out. Then add sugar and chemical colours to make flavoured milk and I could not think of a more toxic compound.

References

1. Goldberg and Folta 2002

2. Smith et al. 1995).

3. Helm 2000

4. Monaci et al. 2006

5. Moetini et al. 2000

6. Michaelidoua and Steijns 2006

7. Jelenek 2010

8. Blum 2009

9. Fürstenberger and Senn 2002

10. Francis et al. 2008

11. Edwards et al. 2007

12. Wiley 2005

13. Berkley et al. 2009

14. Daniel 2007).

15. Key et al. 2003

16. Shaneyfelt et al. 2001

17. Ganmaa and Sato 2005

18. Gao et al. 2005

19. Ganmaa et al. 2002

20. Qina et al. 2004

21. Tominaga and Kuroishi 1997

22. Campbell and Campbell 2004

23. Ganmaa et al. 2002

24. Davies et al. 1996

25. Garner et al. 2003

26. Strang et al. 2006

27. Mettlin et al. (1990

28. Gaskill et al. 1979

29. Stocks 1970

30. La Vecchia 1993

31. Le et al. 1986

32. Ursinl et al. 1990

33. Larsson et al. 2004).

34. Harrison and Honeyman 1999

35. Scott 1990

36. Elliot and Laugesen 2003

37. Goldberg and Folta 2002

38. Laugesen and Elliot 2003

39. Wasmuth et al. 1999

40. Thorsdottir et al. 2000

41. Padberg et al. 1999

42. Elliot et al. 1998

43. Tailford et al. 2003

44. Butcher 1976

45. Malosse et al. 1992

46. Malosse et al. 1993

47. Winer et al. 2001

48. Stefferl et al. 2000

49. Guggenmos 2004

50. Chen et al. 2002

51. Norton 2007

52. Park et al. 2005

53. Chen et al. 2006

54. Chen et al. 2007

55. Venn et al. 2005

56. McLachlan 2000

57. Popham et al. 1983

58. Seely 1981).

59. Schmitz and Melnik 2009

60. Batya et al. 2010

61. Danby 2008

62. Adebamowo et al. 2008

[Tolley]

As far as i have read a fair number of Whey's are made from unpasteurized milk. In the Netherlands many cheeses are made from raw milk but the majority is made from pasteurized milk. I am not sure about WPC, also i don't worry too much about it as i have no problems at all with it.

Most Caucasian people can handle any kind of milk well, id worry more if i were Asian or black. But everyone should decide if its worth the extra money. For me paying 4 times the going rate for it is not worth it. As i said before our ancestors might have had stuff with higher food value, but we get more of it and are stronger, so quantity goes over quality in this case.

Merry Xmas to you.

Do you really think we are stronger than our ancestors?

Sure we are living longer but it is interesting to note that quite disturbingly sperm counts in men have decreased significantly in men over the last few decades as have Testosterone levels.

That would seem to indicate that we are not as strong or as healthy as previous generations.

[poanoi]

As a comparison, i bought 500g whey proteine isolate for 1399 baht outside tony's,

around 9 times as much in other words.

Thanks for pointing out where to get it,

and here is the link again

http://www.club-protein.com/

[tropo]

I dont think you read this so I am cutting and pasting it. This guys background is the following and notice all the collaborative research he quotes at the end:

So my concern is many of the products are using pasteurised milk ergo I would prefer to use a whey not made from pasteurised milk given what is set out below.

Dr Dingle has spent the past twenty years as a researcher, educator and communicator. He has a Bachelor of Education in Science, a Bachelor of Environmental Science with first class honours and a PhD (1994). He has more than 100 scientifically reviewed papers, 10 books including A supplement A day Keeps the doctor away, the great Cholesterol Deception and Take control and realise your potential. He conducts ongoing research into diet and nutrition, lifestyle and environmental impacts on health, well being and productivity. Dr D is one of the rare speakers who conducts and presents his own professional research. He is internationally recognised and often quoted by other speakers.

LOL. You want to force me to read your links by cutting n' pasting them. You're lucky I didn't do the same as you would have had to read through 20 pages. That was a lousy article and the references weren't even linked. It's a promotional website to sell his books. After reading that you'd think milk is the sole cause of all human sickness and death.

With the amount of public speaking and presentations that Dr Dingle does every day you'd wonder when he has time to do research.

I've read countless scare stories about milk consumption. Perhaps you think I came down in the last shower and I've never seen anything like this? They're all over the internet. Don't drink milk because it is only for baby cows, yada yada yada......

But really, you're changing the subject. Why don't you start a new thread about this because this thread is about WPC. I'd be happy to debate the pros and cons of drinking cow's milk, but not here.

[tropo]

Perhaps we should be investigating Dr Dingle.

Nurse tells how cancer patient Penelope Dingle was 'writhing in pain'

She died of cancer at age 45.

http://www.perthnow....c-1225880033776

If you're a Peter Dingle fan, you must read this:

http://skepticsinthepub.net.nz/blogs/michelle/another-clean-kill-scam

Edited December 25, 2012 by tropo

[tropo]

As a comparison, i bought 500g whey proteine isolate for 1399 baht outside tony's,

around 9 times as much in other words.

Thanks for pointing out where to get it,

and here is the link again

http://www.club-protein.com/

I hope you enjoy it.

Just in case you were getting freaked out by all the talk about dead and denatured proteins, here is some info from the WPC manufacturer's website.

http://www.agrimarkw...PDF/wpc_web.pdf

AGRI-MARK Whey Protein Concentrate 80

Agri-Mark Whey Protein Concentrate 80 (WPC 80) is a homogeneous, free-flowing whey protein concentrate powder manufactured from fresh sweet whey and spray dried to 80% protein on a dry basis. It is used in infant formulas, sportsnutrition, low carbohydrate diet formulas, yogurt, ice cream, sausage and meat products, and egg albumen replacer in bakery products. It provides an excellent source of undenatured dairy protein to a variety of processed and special dietary food formulations. Agri-Mark WPC 80 is light cream to cream in color with a bland and clean odor and flavor.

The underlining and emphasis of "denatured" was mine. They're not making a big song and dance about this as many of the branded retails formula promotors are, but this is a manufacturer's website and most of the product they sell would be wholesale to food and nutrition companies in 20kg bags. Who do you believe?

I can tell you that it mixes very easily and has a pleasant taste. I often take it neat without added flavour. You can use it that way with your oats and other cereals.

Edited December 25, 2012 by tropo

[poanoi]

I was told the body can absorb protein more easily right after a workout so that's when i take my drink.

Don't really understand how you have it with oat meal,

do you mean you mix the milk with protein before you have the oats ?

apfelmus goes really well with oats btw, bigC & foodland use to have it

Edited December 25, 2012 by poanoi

[Tolley]

I dont think you read this so I am cutting and pasting it. This guys background is the following and notice all the collaborative research he quotes at the end:

So my concern is many of the products are using pasteurised milk ergo I would prefer to use a whey not made from pasteurised milk given what is set out below.

Dr Dingle has spent the past twenty years as a researcher, educator and communicator. He has a Bachelor of Education in Science, a Bachelor of Environmental Science with first class honours and a PhD (1994). He has more than 100 scientifically reviewed papers, 10 books including A supplement A day Keeps the doctor away, the great Cholesterol Deception and Take control and realise your potential. He conducts ongoing research into diet and nutrition, lifestyle and environmental impacts on health, well being and productivity. Dr D is one of the rare speakers who conducts and presents his own professional research. He is internationally recognised and often quoted by other speakers.

LOL. You want to force me to read your links by cutting n' pasting them. You're lucky I didn't do the same as you would have had to read through 20 pages. That was a lousy article and the references weren't even linked. It's a promotional website to sell his books. After reading that you'd think milk is the sole cause of all human sickness and death.

With the amount of public speaking and presentations that Dr Dingle does every day you'd wonder when he has time to do research.

I've read countless scare stories about milk consumption. Perhaps you think I came down in the last shower and I've never seen anything like this? They're all over the internet. Don't drink milk because it is only for baby cows, yada yada yada......

But really, you're changing the subject. Why don't you start a new thread about this because this thread is about WPC. I'd be happy to debate the pros and cons of drinking cow's milk, but not here.

Believe what you want of course but it seems to me that there is a fair amount of scientific evidence behind his claims.

He is quoting lots of other research to support his claims as well.

He is not alone as you know in pointing out the dangers of dairy milk consumption.

Most of the research that we see on milk is research funded by the dairy industry who i dare say have a conflict of interest in the subject.

The reason I am bringing this up or course is that if you using pasteurised milk in your whey it seems like it is not the best option so it is relevant to the discussion.

[jbrain]

Not sure if this link has been posted already, but if not Tolley must have overlooked it.Stop eating dead whey, the ideal protein is in the link below

http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t6017-whey-protein-scam

What’s The Best Protein Available Right Now?

During the course of my research, I had the good fortune of meeting Calli O’Brien. She introduced me to a totally new product, that’s quickly becoming the new protein king on the block. It’s going to allow people to exceed their previous athletic performances without causing the problems that whey protein or isolated forms of protein have.

It’s called hemp protein.

And you might be asking yourself, “Whoa, gee, man... Is that the stuff you smoke?” And of course, it’s not. There’s hemp and cannabis. Cannabis is the female plant... And hemp is the male plant, which has a negligible THC content. So, it doesn’t cause any highs.

[robblok]

As far as i have read a fair number of Whey's are made from unpasteurized milk. In the Netherlands many cheeses are made from raw milk but the majority is made from pasteurized milk. I am not sure about WPC, also i don't worry too much about it as i have no problems at all with it.

Most Caucasian people can handle any kind of milk well, id worry more if i were Asian or black. But everyone should decide if its worth the extra money. For me paying 4 times the going rate for it is not worth it. As i said before our ancestors might have had stuff with higher food value, but we get more of it and are stronger, so quantity goes over quality in this case.

Merry Xmas to you.

Do you really think we are stronger than our ancestors?

Sure we are living longer but it is interesting to note that quite disturbingly sperm counts in men have decreased significantly in men over the last few decades as have Testosterone levels.

That would seem to indicate that we are not as strong or as healthy as previous generations.

I would look at bone structure to indicate strength, as that can show how the tendons connect and stuff. It has been proven we are bigger and stronger then those before us. If you for instance take the Brits who where so much smaller as the Zullu's who they fought because of lack of food while growing up. That clearly shows me that now because of our constant supply of food we are stronger. Not to mention we are bigger as we used to be so that shows me that quantity goes over quality.

Your sperm count is nice but i was talking bigger and stronger, but i guess it all depends what we look at. I am not saying we don't have more polutants in our body (because im sure we do).

[robblok]

I dont think you read this so I am cutting and pasting it. This guys background is the following and notice all the collaborative research he quotes at the end:

So my concern is many of the products are using pasteurised milk ergo I would prefer to use a whey not made from pasteurised milk given what is set out below.

Dr Dingle has spent the past twenty years as a researcher, educator and communicator. He has a Bachelor of Education in Science, a Bachelor of Environmental Science with first class honours and a PhD (1994). He has more than 100 scientifically reviewed papers, 10 books including A supplement A day Keeps the doctor away, the great Cholesterol Deception and Take control and realise your potential. He conducts ongoing research into diet and nutrition, lifestyle and environmental impacts on health, well being and productivity. Dr D is one of the rare speakers who conducts and presents his own professional research. He is internationally recognised and often quoted by other speakers.

LOL. You want to force me to read your links by cutting n' pasting them. You're lucky I didn't do the same as you would have had to read through 20 pages. That was a lousy article and the references weren't even linked. It's a promotional website to sell his books. After reading that you'd think milk is the sole cause of all human sickness and death.

With the amount of public speaking and presentations that Dr Dingle does every day you'd wonder when he has time to do research.

I've read countless scare stories about milk consumption. Perhaps you think I came down in the last shower and I've never seen anything like this? They're all over the internet. Don't drink milk because it is only for baby cows, yada yada yada......

But really, you're changing the subject. Why don't you start a new thread about this because this thread is about WPC. I'd be happy to debate the pros and cons of drinking cow's milk, but not here.

Believe what you want of course but it seems to me that there is a fair amount of scientific evidence behind his claims.

He is quoting lots of other research to support his claims as well.

He is not alone as you know in pointing out the dangers of dairy milk consumption.

Most of the research that we see on milk is research funded by the dairy industry who i dare say have a conflict of interest in the subject.

The reason I am bringing this up or course is that if you using pasteurised milk in your whey it seems like it is not the best option so it is relevant to the discussion.

I think in the end its all minor if there are differences at all, but that is my take on it, and all those claims who knows.. i mean i have no problem drinking milk at all. Maybe lactose intolerant people do but i don't.

But in the end you choose what you put in your mouth and so do I. I don't feel its justified. I have no problem spending money on this kind of stuff. But of all the things i done.. nothing really makes much difference except the time i injected testosterone for 10 weeks. That made all the difference int he world.

Edited December 25, 2012 by robblok

[tropo]

Most of the research that we see on milk is research funded by the dairy industry who i dare say have a conflict of interest in the subject.

The reason I am bringing this up or course is that if you using pasteurised milk in your whey it seems like it is not the best option so it is relevant to the discussion.

Most of these guys have an agenda too. Mr Dingle is flogging off books and seminars. He's just an amateur in nutritional science and regurgitating other studies to make his point. He's a salesman with his own ego as the product.

You've got to look more closely at anyone who blows his own trumpet as loud as he does. The splurge on his website about his qualifications and credentials was way over the top. Dr Mercola is a beginner by comparison, but at least he doesn't hit us with pages of trumped up credentials.

I don't suppose anyone bothered to read the report about how he was promising his dying wife that he would write a book about their methods when she got well. He set up his own dying wife as an experiment. That guy is a nasty piece of work. He had his own wife convinced he could save her - it's no wonder he impresses a lot of other people.

At the end of the day, if a product you're buying claims to be better by virtue of them using unpasteurized milk and colder processing temperatures you're taking them at their word unless you visit the processing plant and see for yourself. Bear in mind that the companies that flog these supposedly extra special whey products are not producing the whey. They buy it in bulk from whey manufacturers. They just add flavours, sweeteners and other additives to impress you enough to purchase them at high prices.

Will they divulge their sources? I think not! At least I know where my stuff is produced. That's the benefit of buying the raw product in bulk.

Edited December 25, 2012 by tropo

[poanoi]

Not sure if this link has been posted already, but if not Tolley must have overlooked it.Stop eating dead whey, the ideal protein is in the link below

http://immortalhair....ey-protein-scam

What’s The Best Protein Available Right Now?

During the course of my research, I had the good fortune of meeting Calli O’Brien. She introduced me to a totally new product, that’s quickly becoming the new protein king on the block. It’s going to allow people to exceed their previous athletic performances without causing the problems that whey protein or isolated forms of protein have.

It’s called hemp protein.

And you might be asking yourself, “Whoa, gee, man... Is that the stuff you smoke?” And of course, it’s not. There’s hemp and cannabis. Cannabis is the female plant... And hemp is the male plant, which has a negligible THC content. So, it doesn’t cause any highs.

That unrefined hemp seed oil looks great, especially since i eat neither seafood nor vegetables.

But i'm getting the impression those fatty acids gets destroyed in a frying pan,

so the question is: how do i eat it without throwing up ?

i can't picture myself drinking oil !

And where in thailand can i buy it ?

i came across this, but Malaysia is far away

Edited December 25, 2012 by poanoi

[Tolley]

Most of the research that we see on milk is research funded by the dairy industry who i dare say have a conflict of interest in the subject.

The reason I am bringing this up or course is that if you using pasteurised milk in your whey it seems like it is not the best option so it is relevant to the discussion.

Most of these guys have an agenda too. Mr Dingle is flogging off books and seminars. He's just an amateur in nutritional science and regurgitating other studies to make his point. He's a salesman with his own ego as the product.

You've got to look more closely at anyone who blows his own trumpet as loud as he does. The splurge on his website about his qualifications and credentials was way over the top. Dr Mercola is a beginner by comparison, but at least he doesn't hit us with pages of trumped up credentials.

I don't suppose anyone bothered to read the report about how he was promising his dying wife that he would write a book about their methods when she got well. He set up his own dying wife as an experiment. That guy is a nasty piece of work. He had his own wife convinced he could save her - it's no wonder he impresses a lot of other people.

At the end of the day, if a product you're buying claims to be better by virtue of them using unpasteurized milk and colder processing temperatures you're taking them at their word unless you visit the processing plant and see for yourself. Bear in mind that the companies that flog these supposedly extra special whey products are not producing the whey. They buy it in bulk from whey manufacturers. They just add flavours, sweeteners and other additives to impress you enough to purchase them at high prices.

Will they divulge their sources? I think not! At least I know where my stuff is produced. That's the benefit of buying the raw product in bulk.

Is he an amateur with a PHd from an Australian University and with over 100 published works and seminars and regular tv show and radio shows? And he has links to a lot of other research that supports his viewpoint.

Also the first links I posted supporting using organic milk were from a Phd from Colorado university and a nutritional expert and naturopath from California.

You can dismiss all of these if you like but on the weight of evidence if i was buying whey I would buy stuff made from organic milk. Failing that and considering the extra expense is a factor I would choose a vegetable source.

It seems the hemp one might have some merit but havent had time to look at it.

Finally on the subject of milk itself I would also avoid drinking cows milk as there is no real need to drink it anyway as you can get your calcium and protein elsewhere. The controversy over cows milk just makes it not worth taking the risk when there is no real need to take it anyway.

I have not taken dairy except for a bit of yogurt now and again for thirty years and my bone density is very good.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Tolley

[tropo]

Is he an amateur with a PHd from an Australian University and with over 100 published works and seminars and regular tv show and radio shows? And he has links to a lot of other research that supports his viewpoint.

I have not taken dairy except for a bit of yogurt now and again for thirty years and my bone density is very good.

You missed the point of that comment. I mentioned he is an amateur in the area of nutrition. His PhD was in toxicology. He's a toxicologist. You should have read that report about his trial. He told the court he has no expertise in the area of nutrition or homeopathy.

Here's what he said to the court (obviously you don't read any links - this was a very good one):

He is reported to have been asked whether he'd analysed what she was taking, he stated "....he said he did not because he was an indoor air quality expert and unless the substances were thrown in the air and breathed in he would not know what to do with them." Odd. If you look you will find work on diet, nutrition and the "dangers" of products like shampoo and cosmetics as well on medicine.

How do you know your bone density is "very good"? Did you have a DEXA scan to check it recently.

As for me, I had a DEXA scan done 2 months ago, and also nearly 3 years ago. Both times my bone density had a T-Score 2 standard deviations above the high end of normal for healthy 20 - 30 year olds. That's double the density of a normal 20 - 30 year old.....ON A DIET HEAVY ON MILK AND OTHER DAIRY PRODUCTS.... and lots of WPC and WPI.

Edited December 26, 2012 by tropo

[jrtmedic]

Mods

PLEASE ---------- Put a lock on this nonsense before they resurrect the "dead milk" ( ) and the whey assumes Quatermass like tendencies and we are all put at risk of death by bone density!

[Tolley]

Is he an amateur with a PHd from an Australian University and with over 100 published works and seminars and regular tv show and radio shows? And he has links to a lot of other research that supports his viewpoint.

I have not taken dairy except for a bit of yogurt now and again for thirty years and my bone density is very good.

You missed the point of that comment. I mentioned he is an amateur in the area of nutrition. His PhD was in toxicology. He's a toxicologist. You should have read that report about his trial. He told the court he has no expertise in the area of nutrition or homeopathy.

Here's what he said to the court (obviously you don't read any links - this was a very good one):

He is reported to have been asked whether he'd analysed what she was taking, he stated "....he said he did not because he was an indoor air quality expert and unless the substances were thrown in the air and breathed in he would not know what to do with them." Odd. If you look you will find work on diet, nutrition and the "dangers" of products like shampoo and cosmetics as well on medicine.

How do you know your bone density is "very good"? Did you have a DEXA scan to check it recently.

As for me, I had a DEXA scan done 2 months ago, and also nearly 3 years ago. Both times my bone density had a T-Score 2 standard deviations above the high end of normal for healthy 20 - 30 year olds. That's double the density of a normal 20 - 30 year old.....ON A DIET HEAVY ON MILK AND OTHER DAIRY PRODUCTS.... and lots of WPC and WPI.

Yes but you dont need to take dairy to have good bone density is what I am saying. I had an MRI a few years back for bone density so I know mine is good.

But regardless of that why would you take the risk of ingesting so much milk products given the amount of scientific evidence throwing questions mark on it.

Even ignoring Prof Dingles background he is still basically relying on other peoples research to draw conclusions that many other people have drawn anyway.

Check this link from British Medical Journal on diabetes and pasteurised milk

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2542806/

Alberti mentions a possible link between consumption

of bovine serum albumin and the

development of insulin dependent diabetes.

Karialainen et al found raised antibodies to bovine

serum albumin in most newly diagnosed insulin

dependent diabetic patients.4 More importantly,

Dahl-Jorgensen et al showed a close correlation

between the amounts of cows' milk consumed per

head of the population in various countries and the

incidence of insulin dependent diabetes.5 This

leaves little doubt that consumption of cows' milk

is a trigger for diabetes mellitus. Bovine serum

albumin is 97% denatured by ultraheat treatment

of milk. We are assessing data to see whether

ultraheat treated milk is less diabetogenic than

pasteurised

milk.

And from the New Zealand medical journal re pasteurisation and heart diseases.

http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/116-1170/375/

Milk proteins had been proposed as potential sources of heart disease prior to any suggestion of a link to IDDM. Annand demonstrated that deaths from heart disease increased dramatically after the introduction of pasteurised milk in many English communities.12 Seely13 and Segall14 found, in inter-country comparisons of food component consumption and heart disease, that milk protein consumption gave the highest correlation with disease mortality. Diets containing casein were also observed to be atherogenic in animal studies when compared with vegetable proteins such as soy.15

Edited December 26, 2012 by Tolley

[Tolley]

Mods

PLEASE ---------- Put a lock on this nonsense before they resurrect the "dead milk" ( ) and the whey assumes Quatermass like tendencies and we are all put at risk of death by bone density!

Thanks for your valuable contribution now troll off somewhere else

Edited December 26, 2012 by Tolley

[tropo]

Yes but you dont need to take dairy to have good bone density is what I am saying. I had an MRI a few years back for bone density so I know mine is good.

But regardless of that why would you take the risk of ingesting so much milk products given the amount of scientific evidence throwing questions mark on it.

Even ignoring Prof Dingles background he is still basically relying on other peoples research to draw conclusions that many other people have drawn anyway.

These studies are talking about correlations in populations where milk is consumed. That's all they are, correlations, not proof that milk is the demon. High milk consumption usually goes along with high consumption of sugar, saturated fat and other evils.

It would be impossible to do studies on populations in Australia, Great Britain, Continental Europe and the USA because milk is consumed by most of the population. Even so, what about factoring in the percentage of these populations who have lactose intolerance and allergies to milk. Perhaps these are skewing the results. I couldn't imagine these people would be very healthy if they continue to consume it.

In one of your links above there is mention about ultra heat treatment. This is UHT milk, not normal pasteurized milk.

Having said this, I don't consider milk a health food and don't consume milk in large quantities (depending of course on what you would consider large amounts. Mr Dingle puts that amount at 1 pint per day which I would not consider a large quantity). I consider it an additional source of protein and a drink which I really enjoy to drink. I consume WPC in large quantities and that is the topic of this thread, not the pros and cons of milk consumption.

You might want to look into making kefir from milk. In Australia you can buy unpasterized and unhomogenized milk even at the supermarket. I was buying that when I was there last month.

Edited December 26, 2012 by tropo

[Tolley]

Yes but you dont need to take dairy to have good bone density is what I am saying. I had an MRI a few years back for bone density so I know mine is good.

But regardless of that why would you take the risk of ingesting so much milk products given the amount of scientific evidence throwing questions mark on it.

Even ignoring Prof Dingles background he is still basically relying on other peoples research to draw conclusions that many other people have drawn anyway.

These studies are talking about correlations in populations where milk is consumed. That's all they are, correlations, not proof that milk is the demon. High milk consumption usually goes along with high consumption of sugar, saturated fat and other evils.

It would be impossible to do studies on populations in Australia, Great Britain, Continental Europe and the USA because milk is consumed by most of the population. Even so, what about factoring in the percentage of these populations who have lactose intolerance and allergies to milk. Perhaps these are skewing the results. I couldn't imagine these people would be very healthy if they continue to consume it.

In one of your links above there is mention about ultra heat treatment. This is UHT milk, not normal pasteurized milk.

Having said this, I don't consider milk a health food and don't consume milk in large quantities (depending of course on what you would consider large amounts. Mr Dingle puts that amount at 1 pint per day which I would not consider a large quantity). I consider it an additional source of protein and a drink which I really enjoy to drink. I consume WPC in large quantities and that is the topic of this thread, not the pros and cons of milk consumption.

You might want to look into making kefir from milk. In Australia you can buy unpasterized and unhomogenized milk even at the supermarket. I was buying that when I was there last month.

Kefir for sure is good no doubt about that. The fact that you are exercising heavily, taking kefir, flaxseed i think you said as well and not taking refined carbs and limiting sugar almost ensure you are going to have good health even if you have a little bit of milk.

I should make kefir or rejevelac and I will when I go back to Oz. I have been taking the Inner Health capsules which have lots of strains of good bacteria and they work quite well but probably not as good as doing your own and obviously they are expensive too.

I should have sourced these links way back from respected medical journals but believe me these are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to consuming pasteurised milk and that is why i have my doubts about whey that is made from pasteurised milk.

"In one of your links above there is mention about ultra heat treatment. This is UHT milk, not normal pasteurized milk."

The mention of UHT milk was only in the context of whether UHT would produce the same sort of test results that pasteurised milk did. It wasnt the subject of any testing.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Tolley

[Tolley]

Yes but you dont need to take dairy to have good bone density is what I am saying. I had an MRI a few years back for bone density so I know mine is good.

But regardless of that why would you take the risk of ingesting so much milk products given the amount of scientific evidence throwing questions mark on it.

Even ignoring Prof Dingles background he is still basically relying on other peoples research to draw conclusions that many other people have drawn anyway.

These studies are talking about correlations in populations where milk is consumed. That's all they are, correlations, not proof that milk is the demon. High milk consumption usually goes along with high consumption of sugar, saturated fat and other evils.

It would be impossible to do studies on populations in Australia, Great Britain, Continental Europe and the USA because milk is consumed by most of the population. Even so, what about factoring in the percentage of these populations who have lactose intolerance and allergies to milk. Perhaps these are skewing the results. I couldn't imagine these people would be very healthy if they continue to consume it.

In one of your links above there is mention about ultra heat treatment. This is UHT milk, not normal pasteurized milk.

Having said this, I don't consider milk a health food and don't consume milk in large quantities (depending of course on what you would consider large amounts. Mr Dingle puts that amount at 1 pint per day which I would not consider a large quantity). I consider it an additional source of protein and a drink which I really enjoy to drink. I consume WPC in large quantities and that is the topic of this thread, not the pros and cons of milk consumption.

You might want to look into making kefir from milk. In Australia you can buy unpasterized and unhomogenized milk even at the supermarket. I was buying that when I was there last month.

Kefir for sure is good no doubt about that. The fact that you are exercising heavily, taking kefir, flaxseed i think you said as well and not taking refined carbs and limiting sugar almost ensure you are going to have good health even if you have a little bit of milk.

I should make kefir or rejevelac and I will when I go back to Oz. I have been taking the Inner Health capsules which have lots of strains of good bacteria and they work quite well but probably not as good as doing your own and obviously they are expensive too.

I should have sourced these links way back from respected medical journals but believe me these are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to consuming pasteurised milk and that is why i have my doubts about whey that is made from pasteurised milk.

The British medical journal states the following which is definitely not a correlation.

Alberti mentions a possible link between consumption

of bovine serum albumin and the

development of insulin dependent diabetes.

Karialainen et al found raised antibodies to bovine

serum albumin in most newly diagnosed insulin

dependent diabetic patients.

Karialainen et al found raised antibodies to bovine

serum albumin in most newly diagnosed insulin

dependent diabetic patients.

"In one of your links above there is mention about ultra heat treatment. This is UHT milk, not normal pasteurized milk."

The mention of UHT milk was only in the context of whether UHT would produce the same sort of test results that pasteurised milk did. It wasnt the subject of any testing.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Tolley

[tropo]

Alberti mentions a possible link between consumption

of bovine serum albumin and the

development of insulin dependent diabetes.

Karialainen et al found raised antibodies to bovine

serum albumin in most newly diagnosed insulin

dependent diabetic patients.

Karialainen et al found raised antibodies to bovine

serum albumin in most newly diagnosed insulin

dependent diabetic patients.

You're not going to develop antibodies unless you've become allergic to the bovine serum albumin. I imagine if one continues to consume something you're allergic too health problems will ensue.

I test my blood sugar levels nearly every single day and they mostly come out perfectly normal despite my consumption of pasteurized milk - something which I've consumed all my life apart from a time when I switched to soy milk (due to scare stories about milk). The time that I had big problems with insulin resistance was a time I wasn't consuming much milk.

You'll note in the study you pasted here that it is only a possible link...

Insulin dependent diabetes is quite rare compared to adult onset Type 2 diabetes. Is it not possible that milk could become a problem in people who develop insulin dependent diabetes? Milk is a carbohydrate dense food.

"a possible link between consumption of bovine serum albumin and the development of insulin dependent diabetes"

Edited December 26, 2012 by tropo

[Tolley]

There is also a strong link to type 2 diabetes according to US National Library of MedicineNational Institutes of Health

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21251764

Milk signalling in the pathogenesis of type 2 diabetes.

Melnik BC.

Source

Department of Dermatology, Environmental Medicine and Health Theory, University of Osnabrück, Osnabrück, Germany. [email protected]

Abstract

The presented hypothesis identifies milk consumption as an environmental risk factor of Western diet promoting type 2 diabetes (T2D). Milk, commonly regarded as a valuable nutrient, exerts important endocrine functions as an insulinotropic, anabolic and mitogenic signalling system supporting neonatal growth and development. The presented hypothesis substantiates milk's physiological role as a signalling system for pancreatic β-cell proliferation by milk's ability to increase prolactin-, growth hormone and incretin-signalling. The proposed mechanism of milk-induced postnatal β-cell mass expansion mimics the adaptive prolactin-dependent proliferative changes observed in pregnancy. Milk signalling down-regulates the key transcription factor FoxO1 leading to up-regulation of insulin promoter factor-1 which stimulates β-cell proliferation, insulin secretion as well as coexpression of islet amyloid polypeptide (IAPP). The recent finding that adult rodent β-cells only proliferate by self-duplication is of crucial importance, because permanent milk consumption beyond the weaning period may continuously over-stimulate β-cell replication thereby accelerating the onset of replicative β-cell senescence. The long-term use of milk may thus increase endoplasmic reticulum (ER) stress and toxic IAPP oligomer formation by overloading the ER with cytotoxic IAPPs thereby promoting β-cell apoptosis. Both increased β-cell proliferation and β-cell apoptosis are hallmarks of T2D. This hypothesis gets support from clinical states of hyperprolactinaemia and progeria syndromes with early onset of cell senescence which are both associated with an increased incidence of T2D and share common features of milk signalling. Furthermore, the presented milk hypothesis of T2D is compatible with the concept of high ER stress in T2D and the toxic oligomer hypothesis of T2D and may explain the high association of T2D and Alzheimer disease.

[Tolley]

Alberti mentions a possible link between consumption

of bovine serum albumin and the

development of insulin dependent diabetes.

Karialainen et al found raised antibodies to bovine

serum albumin in most newly diagnosed insulin

dependent diabetic patients.

Karialainen et al found raised antibodies to bovine

serum albumin in most newly diagnosed insulin

dependent diabetic patients.

You're not going to develop antibodies unless you've become allergic to the bovine serum albumin. I imagine if one continues to consume something you're allergic too health problems will ensue.

I test my blood sugar levels nearly every single day and they mostly come out perfectly normal despite my consumption of pasteurized milk - something which I've consumed all my life apart from a time when I switched to soy milk (due to scare stories about milk). The time that I had big problems with insulin resistance was a time I wasn't consuming much milk.

You'll note in the study you pasted here that it is only a possible link...

Insulin dependent diabetes is quite rare compared to adult onset Type 2 diabetes. Is it not possible that milk could become a problem in people who develop insulin dependent diabetes? Milk is a carbohydrate dense food.

"a possible link between consumption of bovine serum albumin and the development of insulin dependent diabetes"

I was a big consumer of soy milk for years but I have gone off it due to the research and its effects on testosterone. I use rice milk these days. It is also easier to digest. The only soy products i consume now are fermented ones like tempeh.

[tropo]

This is only an hypothesis. Where is the conclusion or observation of this study? Do you have it? I think you'll have to pay for the full report.

I doubt you can draw a strong link between milk and adult onset Type 2 diabetes in humans. The diet of humans is extremely diverse and milk is consumed by most everyone. Type 2 diabetes usually starts becoming prevalent at ages above 40 when the people have been eating all sorts of crap for decades and exposed themselves to hundreds of "environmental risk factors".

There is no animal on earth with the same digestive tract as humans. Animal studies are extremely limited. There is also no one perfect diet for humans as they consume different food all over the world.

There's plenty of people who aren't diabetic who consume large amounts of milk. Milk is high in carbs (lactose - sugar). It can be a problem for people with insulin resistance, a precursor to Type 2 diabetes.

Where do we start with "environmental risk factors"? There are hundred if not thousands of these touted by scientists.

[Tolley]

Well the report says it is a risk factor so best of avoiding in my opinion along with too much sugar, refined carbs, alcohol etc

Remember milk is marketed as a super food and clearly there are a lot of question marks over it totherwise you wouldn't be getting so much research linking it to various serious conditions.

[tropo]

I've never considered it to be a "super food", but I do consider it to be a very enjoyable extra source of protein. If I had access to unhomogenized and unpasteurized milk I would drink that. I can't always get what I want though - I have budget to consider.

I believe the WPC I consume is a bonus to my health. It's easily digested and gives my digestive system a break from digesting meat. I'll have 2 meals of WPC and the rest from either chicken, beef or eggs.