Question About A "Wai"

[Morakot]

I teach all my kids to wai kuhn Ronald

Yes, there are many of his follower around the world. It's starting to almost look like an organised religion. Good glory!

Edited July 26, 2012 by Morakot

[whistleblower]

I usually go with the flow and Thai culture and address them as they address me. So for taxi drivers and motorcycle taxis I shout 'you, you' whilst clapping my hands, food vendors i speak very loudly in my native tongue and hope they understand, when a bar girl tries to grab my jewels as I walk by I try to grab hers, I always give the 7/11 girls a pointless handshake after buying the smallest thing as they seem to give me a pointless wai when I do.

[transam]

I teach all my kids to wai kuhn Ronald, he has been a close friend for decades.

I could do with a BigMac right now.

[Morakot]

I teach all my kids to wai kuhn Ronald, he has been a close friend for decades.

I could do with a BigMac right now.

Sorry, they are ready off the menu in preparation for lent.

[h90]

I usually go with the flow and Thai culture and address them as they address me. So for taxi drivers and motorcycle taxis I shout 'you, you' whilst clapping my hands, food vendors i speak very loudly in my native tongue and hope they understand, when a bar girl tries to grab my jewels as I walk by I try to grab hers, I always give the 7/11 girls a pointless handshake after buying the smallest thing as they seem to give me a pointless wai when I do.

Sounds right.

[Shameless]

A farang wai is not cool and cringeworthy at best. Leave that to the tree hugging hipsters who've "come to save Thailand".

[transam]

A farang wai is not cool and cringeworthy at best. Leave that to the tree hugging hipsters who've "come to save Thailand".

Your wrong.

[MikeandDow]

A farang wai is not cool and cringeworthy at best. Leave that to the tree hugging hipsters who've "come to save Thailand".

Your wrong.

and you are an Expert !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! list qualification

[canuckamuck]

A farang wai is not cool and cringeworthy at best. Leave that to the tree hugging hipsters who've "come to save Thailand".

Your wrong.

and you are an Expert !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! list qualification

Well he's right about you being wrong. That's one point in his favor

[MikeandDow]

A farang wai is not cool and cringeworthy at best. Leave that to the tree hugging hipsters who've "come to save Thailand".

Your wrong.

and you are an Expert !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! list qualification

Well he's right about you being wrong. That's one point in his favor

Typical nonsensical post from a nonsensical canadian do you know What a wai is ????

[transam]

A farang wai is not cool and cringeworthy at best. Leave that to the tree hugging hipsters who've "come to save Thailand".

Your wrong.

and you are an Expert !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! list qualification

OK, hmmmmmmmmm, married ladies cuddle me. OK.

[canuckamuck]

Well he's right about you being wrong. That's one point in his favor

Typical nonsensical post from a nonsensical canadian do you know What a wai is ????

Ooh tough one, give me hint.

[transam]

@mikeanddow,

Please tell us non observant.

[Semper]

@mikeanddow,

Please tell us non observant.

Web Accessibility Initiative (W3C)

[mca]

MikeandDow.

If you're going to troll please, please make the effort to be at least mildly entertaining as opposed to mind boggingly crap at it.

Here's one to get you started.

" Farangs learn to wai everybody from their wives because their wives are all ex-bar girls from Isaan who wai all and sundry because of their low social status."

See? It's a slice of gateaux as the French say.

Now go away with a pencil and piece of paper for a day, flex the old grey matter and come back with something better than your current Dustin Hoffman in "Rainman" utterings .

[fletchsmile]

I think the wai looks a nice cultural gesture for Thai people, which I respect.

As a foreigner, it has never really sat well with me though, believing people should generally be equal and knowing that the lower person generally wai's the higher first. I mean how would you feel, if you were the one at the bottom of the ladder that always wai's first?

So in most cases and particularly where people don't know me that well I will play the farang card and rely on the fact I'm not expected to partake. I will however acknowledge the wai. Some of my personal guidelines I feel comfortable with:

I rarely initiate a wai. Exceptions would be:

- Mother-in-law and father-in-law, particularly in front of other people - to show respect and give face to them and openly show that I respect them and am cultured enough to be part of their family

- Government officials or formal occasions, eg board directors at the company, directors and senior people at institutions like Bank of Thailand (below that level they will generally wai me first if they know my professional capacity)

- Ad hoc occasions where it would perhaps count in your favour to make someone feel good and help things run smoothly, immigration for marriage visa extension of stay springs to mind

As for returning a wai. I probably do more often than initiating:

- Someone once raised a good point about returning it to kids, so I now always do.

- Professional capacity, I sometimes do, more so with people I know less well though, and more likely in front of other people so they don't lose face of being ignored.

- Socially not so much, but I will acknowledge it, eg smile, small nod of the head etc, and again depends on who is around

All in all, not a big fan though, and prefer playing the ignorant farang card. As mentioned above by some posters, in certain situations there is a higher expectation of you, especially if you're known to have been round a while. A quick assessment of the impact and repercussions of not doing so usually isn't that difficult. After that it's a personal choice for me.

Edited July 26, 2012 by fletchsmile

[DrTuner]

These threads are amusing. I equate a wai to the western handshake and it's worked just fine.

[Chittychangchang]

These threads are amusing. I equate a wai to the western handshake and it's worked just fine.

That's exactly what it is!

[fletchsmile]

These threads are amusing. I equate a wai to the western handshake and it's worked just fine.

That's exactly what it is!

That's maybe how you see it, and as a foreigner that's your/our call. To a Thai there are a lot more nuances and subtleties involved.

Not unlike the language really. There are nuances and subtleties in Thai language that are important to them which can't be expressed in English. That they may not be important to you or me, doesn't mean they aren't important to Thais. eg for "you", we can call (almost) everyone "khun", but Thais wouldn't be comfortable with just that one word.

BTW I think a western woman would be in a bit of trouble with your solution when dealing with monks, and I can't say a waiter in a western restaurant ever greeted me with a handshake.

Edited July 26, 2012 by fletchsmile

[DrTuner]

It's good to be a Farang. Let's you cut the corners in order to get to the goal more quickly. Damned be them trying to convince the Thais farangs might actually be able to behave. One should never give up one's advantage voluntarily.

[mangoman007]

I posted this several years ago so will repost it here. The full topic is here > Wai Oh Wai

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Pretty much every time this topic pops up it gets the same crowd.

1. Those who don't wai at anything

2. Those that only wai a certain category of people

3. The backpacker wai - wais everything, even the local soi dog.

4. The culturally aware, which appears to be a small minority.

I have been coming to Thailand for over 35 years, working here nearly 16 years and 99.9% of my interactions are with Thai, from the lowest class to the highest class you can imagine. I made/make an effort to know the culture and its' meaning to make my daily life more pleasant. I'm at a point where I instinctively know when, where and how to wai. Not to say that I don't occasionally make a faux pax, but when I do I usually realize it immediately and kick myself for a while for doing it (in other words, I should have known better).

I talked to a Thai ajarn friend of mine at the university regarding his thoughts on farangs and waiing or not waiing. First I asked if it was a tourist or a visiting professor and he did not return a wai, what would he think. His comment was he wouldn't think anything of it knowing the person is culturally unaware. Now he made a point though and used me as an example (as an analogy for the opposite farang group). He said if he was standing somewhere out of sight and saw a Thai approach me and waied me but I didn't return the wai, he would be quite upset.

The reason is he knows me, that I have been here a long time and understand the culture, I speak the language and have a Thai wife. In other words, there is no excuse for my behavior with this person. Same with some other Thais at the university, if you refuse to wai then you do not respect the culture or the people (again, if you have been here for an extended period and not the casual visitor).

Now these are highly educated Thais who make a distinction between the various farang categories. Now try to think of lessor educated Thais and I suspect their thoughts are a little less forgiving.

One last thing and that is waiing children. Some think it is never appropriate. My ajarn friend explained that he will return a wai to a child (he will not initiate it), his reasoning is if he doesn't the child will grow up thinking it is not important. In other words, he leads by example. Funny enough, seems I see more higher class Thais returning wais to kids then others.

Handshake vs wai. Yes, not the same thing in either meaning or effect. Though having said that, it seems I remember reading that the wai originated in the same fashion as the handshake. That is, it was to show your enemy you were not holding a weapon. I'm still trying to find the history and the where and why of how the wai started. My colleague believes it originated in India.

My 2 satangs.

This is very very helpful, and insightful. Thank you

[notmyself]

These threads are amusing. I equate a wai to the western handshake and it's worked just fine.

That's exactly what it is!

That's exactly what it isn't. A handshake is not the acceptance or expectation of subservience or servility between one human being and another.

[mca]

I posted this several years ago so will repost it here. The full topic is here > Wai Oh Wai

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Pretty much every time this topic pops up it gets the same crowd.

1. Those who don't wai at anything

2. Those that only wai a certain category of people

3. The backpacker wai - wais everything, even the local soi dog.

4. The culturally aware, which appears to be a small minority.

I have been coming to Thailand for over 35 years, working here nearly 16 years and 99.9% of my interactions are with Thai, from the lowest class to the highest class you can imagine. I made/make an effort to know the culture and its' meaning to make my daily life more pleasant. I'm at a point where I instinctively know when, where and how to wai. Not to say that I don't occasionally make a faux pax, but when I do I usually realize it immediately and kick myself for a while for doing it (in other words, I should have known better).

I talked to a Thai ajarn friend of mine at the university regarding his thoughts on farangs and waiing or not waiing. First I asked if it was a tourist or a visiting professor and he did not return a wai, what would he think. His comment was he wouldn't think anything of it knowing the person is culturally unaware. Now he made a point though and used me as an example (as an analogy for the opposite farang group). He said if he was standing somewhere out of sight and saw a Thai approach me and waied me but I didn't return the wai, he would be quite upset.

The reason is he knows me, that I have been here a long time and understand the culture, I speak the language and have a Thai wife. In other words, there is no excuse for my behavior with this person. Same with some other Thais at the university, if you refuse to wai then you do not respect the culture or the people (again, if you have been here for an extended period and not the casual visitor).

Now these are highly educated Thais who make a distinction between the various farang categories. Now try to think of lessor educated Thais and I suspect their thoughts are a little less forgiving.

One last thing and that is waiing children. Some think it is never appropriate. My ajarn friend explained that he will return a wai to a child (he will not initiate it), his reasoning is if he doesn't the child will grow up thinking it is not important. In other words, he leads by example. Funny enough, seems I see more higher class Thais returning wais to kids then others.

Handshake vs wai. Yes, not the same thing in either meaning or effect. Though having said that, it seems I remember reading that the wai originated in the same fashion as the handshake. That is, it was to show your enemy you were not holding a weapon. I'm still trying to find the history and the where and why of how the wai started. My colleague believes it originated in India.

My 2 satangs.

This is very very helpful, and insightful. Thank you

good stuff tywais

Another one that gets the keyboards red hot is the waiing of restaurant staff etc. You never wai "inferiors" and all that happy horseshit. I'll usually give an acknowledging wai to serving staff as they wai my group when we leave the restaurant. So will most Thais I've been in the company of. When I take my car to the cleaners I'll give an acknowledging wai to the guy as he wais me when he walks up to collect my keys. I've seen plenty of Thais do it as well. Not a big "I've just met the Khon Kaen mayor at a function" wai. As I said just an acknowledgement of the person I'm interacting with.

Of course it's not law that you have to do it. It just marks you out as a very polite person whose parent's raised you well. Same as I'll always say thank you when a waitress fills my water glass, clears my plate etc. It's how I've been brought up.

Edited July 26, 2012 by mca

[Trembly]

It appears that Thailand does not have a monopoly on people who regard the observance of manners as some kind of power trip.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Trembly

[HeijoshinCool]

Either way, I refuse to be involved in any sign which involves servitude. Before anyone starts to bang on about culture, would they be willing to treat women like chattel in a middle eastern country for example? Would they also accept FGM?

Honestly, i tried it both ways and got no further ahead or behind. I give my wifes father a wai now and again to keep things civil at home, but the rest, nah, as long as they keep referring to me (and you) as FARANG, I will continue to not act like a Thai. Ko Jai Mai?

Not bothered about farang myself. Just refuse to engage in actions or behaviour which indicate a standing of one human above or below another.

So you don't believe in showing respect for your elders? I feel sure you mispoke in the haste of replying.

I wai my landlord first because he is 86 and has worked hard all his life, still does, and demonstrates wisdom in his actions and words. He's worthy of my respect. But, other than such examples as that one, I don't wai, either.

[uptheos]

I wai my landlord first because he is 86 and has worked hard all his life, still does, and demonstrates wisdom in his actions and words.

...........and hopefully he won't raise the rent.

[DrTuner]

These threads are amusing. I equate a wai to the western handshake and it's worked just fine.

That's exactly what it is!

That's exactly what it isn't. A handshake is not the acceptance or expectation of subservience or servility between one human being and another.

I only shake hands with people I know or want to know, or have done business with. I have no desire to know waitresses, 7/11 clerks and so on. So I don't wai them. I don't shake hands with the Indian tailors trying to stop me on Beach road either, they try to use it as a method of swimming into your inner circle and sell you low quality garments. As an analogy I don't wai back any shop owners who look like they've got plans for Farang for dinner. Like said, worked just fine and I don't associate it with any pissing contest.

[transam]

These threads are amusing. I equate a wai to the western handshake and it's worked just fine.

That's exactly what it is!

That's exactly what it isn't. A handshake is not the acceptance or expectation of subservience or servility between one human being and another.

I only shake hands with people I know or want to know, or have done business with. I have no desire to know waitresses, 7/11 clerks and so on. So I don't wai them. I don't shake hands with the Indian tailors trying to stop me on Beach road either, they try to use it as a method of swimming into your inner circle and sell you low quality garments. As an analogy I don't wai back any shop owners who look like they've got plans for Farang for dinner. Like said, worked just fine and I don't associate it with any pissing contest.

So your not a ''mixer'' then, bit of a loner.

[DrTuner]

So your not a ''mixer'' then, bit of a loner.

I'm picky about my company, yes. I'll leave the idle mingling stuff to people preferring such activities. Far from being alone though, there are interesting folks around here, probably one in every thousand.

[uptheos]

So your not a ''mixer'' then, bit of a loner.

I'm picky about my company, yes. I'll leave the idle mingling stuff to people preferring such activities. Far from being alone though, there are interesting folks around here, probably one in every thousand.

Let me guess........you're that 'one'.