Will Linux Finally Become The Alternative Desktop Operating System?

[lapd]

The major problem that I see with Linux is that there is absolutely NO discipline among developers. There is NO standard operating system to work from. Everything can be improved but who decides what is better? It's the old story that too many cooks spoil the stew.

Actually there is a tightly controlled defacto standard they all work from. It's called the Kernel. Many of the core GNU components are also tightly controlled defacto standards.

If it's such a major problem why did NASA just decide to change over the ISS computers to Linux? The list of major companies who have staked their reputations and survival on Linux is enormous. There is no major problem unless you want to make it one. The beauty of Linux is that you can do that too if you want.

[lapd]

Apparently the are no Server domain controller admins on this thread. Apparently there is none who uses Active Directory to create groups and permissions, or to push software and rules. Maybe no one in this thread even knows what I'm talking about.

I certainly get that feeling.

I also administer 2008R2 domain controllers. So I have a lot of experience with both. Different tools for different jobs.

[urandom]

Not to sound like a typical Linux nerd but you guys do realize that all the various Linux distributions are basically the same right? The most annoying thing for me is directory structure. That seems to vary quite a bit. I wish all the linux distributions could agree on a standard directory structure. That will probably never happen now this far down the road.

[--------snip--------]

Think about that next time someone says something dumb like "Ubuntu is more stable than...SUSE" or other such nonsense. One is just as stable as the next because they are both essentially the same.

Next time think about the fact that vendors:

1/ Do patch upstream sources, all of them with their own patchsets, for example:

fedora kernel

http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/kernel.git/tree/

arch kernel

https://projects.archlinux.org/svntogit/packages.git/tree/trunk?h=packages/linux

Do you really think this is "essentially the same" ?

2/ Use a different toolchain (glibc+binutils+gcc)

A binary built with gcc 4.6.4 is not the same as one built with 4.8.0

More aggressive optimization can trigger bugs from exactly the same code that seemed to be bugfree

3/ Use different configure options at build time, this means:

they may ship software with different functionality

binary may be linked against some extra library

eb:~$ readelf -d /usr/bin/mplayer |grep -i needed |wc -l

40

[eb@drama ~]$ readelf -d /usr/bin/mplayer |grep -i needed |wc -l

58

In conclusion, what you call "nonsense" is in fact a perfectly valid point

Last thing, about the directory tree, more and more vendors are considering simplifying it:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/UsrMove

Uhhh you are pointing out that different versions of a package are....ahhh...different. And that patching a package changes it. Gee, thanks for enlightening me. What about that other package they all use. I think it's called the Kernel. Not sure if it's important for stability or defining differences between them though....probably just 'nonsense' eh?

I wish I had enlightened you but you obviously don't get it

- the *same* version of a package can be different across distros. Not even talking about patches, it depends on how and against which libs it has been built and using which toolchain (and even how this toolchain has been built, hardened or not for example)

- the kernel is really one the worst examples you could have chosen to prove your point, most distros use different kernel versions, different kernel configs and their own set of patches.

[Phil Conners]

While I'm a huge Linux fan for servers and would never consider using anything else for that, I keep trying desktop versions on my PC - and I keep returning to Windows for different reasons.

First, the Linux GUI (X11, the window manager) is next year 30 years old and IMO really needs a complete redesign and rewrite from the bottom up. Apple had the right idea with X/OS and so did Android, although they are clearly a mobile OS with many limitations for desktop use.

Another big reason is the lack of so much software that I'm taking for granted, but of course, if the GUI is made good enough the rest may follow by itself.

I also think the huge number of distributions don't do much to help. Newbies are faced first with the choice of which distribution to start with, and regardless which they pick, at the first problem they try to resolve they are told they should have picked another distro.

[manarak]

While I'm a huge Linux fan for servers and would never consider using anything else for that, I keep trying desktop versions on my PC - and I keep returning to Windows for different reasons.

First, the Linux GUI (X11, the window manager) is next year 30 years old and IMO really needs a complete redesign and rewrite from the bottom up. Apple had the right idea with X/OS and so did Android, although they are clearly a mobile OS with many limitations for desktop use.

Another big reason is the lack of so much software that I'm taking for granted, but of course, if the GUI is made good enough the rest may follow by itself.

I also think the huge number of distributions don't do much to help. Newbies are faced first with the choice of which distribution to start with, and regardless which they pick, at the first problem they try to resolve they are told they should have picked another distro.

good summary!

software availability is the biggest problem IMO

[Haecksler]

Hi

very interesting thread.

I am a user only and I migrate 3 years ago to Ubuntu. I just learned computer work with Windows XP 10 years ago. The failure of my laptop forced me into Windows 7.
I did not liked it at all. Some discussions with friends lead me to try Ubuntu. I liked it very much.

I installed Ubuntu 10.10. on my desk top and on my Acer 4820TG. The Acer runs dual boot on Windows 7 and Ubuntu 10.10.

I was able to install Ubuntu on both machines but it took me to long to do it despite there is a good German instruction on line.
The Ubuntu community provides brilliant support but 80% of the posts I don't understand. Therefore if I stuck it takes me even longer to find this posts with clear user understandable language.

And then after one year upgrade of the desk top - black screen and again it took me ages to fix it.

And now upgrade the Acer, no need to talk further. I love to work with Ubuntu very much but all that sucks.

My opinion:

There should be a commercial support for Linux with individual service. Hard ware manufacturer should support more Linux. E.g. Canon does not support Linux at all why??? And there is a very affordable A3 printer available.

It should be possible to purchase a piece of hardware plug it in, install the OS and use it. If you have severe problems there should be a place where you can buy professional service.

I think this is not happen really, probably many user decide still for Microsoft.

I will definitely not return to Microsoft. I should probably spent more Time searching people where I can buy service.

Any advice would be highly appreciated.

[OldChinaHam]

Linux finally has already become the alternative desktop operating system.

Now is time for it to become the OS of first choice.

If computing is mostly all heading mobile, then this should not take much longer.

We just need Linux to reach some critical mass of end users in any sector, such as mobile, and then we will have more software coming out our developer than we can shake a stick at.

[Richard-BKK]

Linux finally has already become the alternative desktop operating system.

Now is time for it to become the OS of first choice.

If computing is mostly all heading mobile, then this should not take much longer.

We just need Linux to reach some critical mass of end users in any sector, such as mobile, and then we will have more software coming out our developer than we can shake a stick at.

In the world of mobile computer devices, Linux is already market leader...

[Chicog]

That is interesting about Lexmark

Previously I have stayed away from Lexmark products due to their over priced consumables such as ink etc.

Do you know if they do any Laser printers / scanners with Linux support?

I wished I had when I went looking for replacement ink. I couldn't find the bloody things anywhere.

In the end I resorted to eBay and in fact they aren't as overpriced as you think if you go that way.

[thaimite]

"I would think that China will be quite important getting Linux more popularity. This is part of information protection."

If most users in China were required to purchase legal Windows products, everyone would be on linux. This is a reason to hope Microsoft will enforce locking of pirated software, which they dare not do, unfortunately. Microsoft will do anything to keep the China market, and the Indian market. There are two or more prices for software sold in the west developed countries, and the developing countries such as China and India. There should be one price for the same software in the US, Europe, and China and India.

When you consider that most hardware is now made in China, and you also take in to account the recent announcement that

Canonical, the makers of Ubuntu have announced that they will be officially affiliated with the Chinese government to bring a new Ubuntu based OS to the Chinese population.

alongside KingSoft Office the excellent Linux clone of Microsoft Office. Maybe the Chinese will be the power that brings Linux to the desktop.

Certainly there will be more pressure for hardware manufacturers to ensure Linux drivers are available for their systems.

[jpinx]

Ubuntu, redhat and others have corrupted the basic philosophy of linux, which was that it should be free to acquire and be totally open so that anyone could modify it. It was - afaict - never the linux cmmunity's intention to replace MS or Apple software, merely to offer an alternative to those people who wished for it.

[metisdead]

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