Adoption

[CJVV]

Howdy. So my husband and I have been living here for 3 years. We are both South Africans. I really want to have a baby, but I really, really, really don't want to get pregnant. I also don't want to bring a child into the world when so many are already suffering.

Does anyone know how I can adopt a Thai baby?

[camberwellcarrotfactory]

Don't know a lot about it myself but did a quick Google search and here is some relevant information for you.

http://www.siam-legal.com/litigation/adoption-in-thailand.php

Good luck ;-)

[givenall]

We looked into adoption when we tried and could not have a baby. But we heard a lot of oppositions toward adoption over here from both officials and regular people. They all said when baby grows up they tend to find natural parents and eventually go to them. it is cultural.

finally we had our own baby and it is a gift

[ThaiRich]

You and your husband can adopt fairly easily here in Thailand. But, it would only be recognized in Thailand. If you want to adopt and give your child your nationality and be recognized as her legal parents in your own country and all other 1st world countries, you will have to go through an international adoption agency in your home country.

[Paul888]

We looked into adoption when we tried and could not have a baby. But we heard a lot of oppositions toward adoption over here from both officials and regular people. They all said when baby grows up they tend to find natural parents and eventually go to them. it is cultural.

finally we had our own baby and it is a gift

Nothing wrong with an adopted child seeking out their real parents when they are grown up. It's a natural thing for any adopted child to do.

I sought out my real parents when I had my first child, although that was more to check if there were any hereditary diseases i should know about than any attempt to bond with them.

[CDNinKS]

You and your husband can adopt fairly easily here in Thailand. But, it would only be recognized in Thailand. If you want to adopt and give your child your nationality and be recognized as her legal parents in your own country and all other 1st world countries, you will have to go through an international adoption agency in your home country.

Not true, at least for Canada. By Canadian law all you have to do is 1) prove that it is a legal adoption in Thailand and 2) prove that at least one of the adoptive parents are Canadian citizens. Then the child will get Canadian citizenship.

[SantiSuk]

As an Englishman with a Thai wife I started the process of seeeking to adopt a 14 year old from within my wifes own family - her young cousin, who has been informally adopted by my wife's parents since she was "gifted" to them by parents who could not cope with their latest little family bundle. Thai families are rife with such Dickensian solutions!

I gave up after 6 months of trying for adoption in both the UK and here and will recommence when and if I achieve a complete break from the UK. Meanwhile our adopted daughter (necessarily informally adopted) has been living with us for 2 years now. Thailand requires that the foreigner's home country can confirm that such an adoption would be legal under that foreigner's country's own laws - their way of weeding out bad apples without any effort on their part. The UK takes thta requirement and interprets it to mean that the full UK adoption process must be completed to give such a confirmation, unless the UK person has effectively given up all residence rights in the UK, in which case they will give some lesser form of negative assurance that nonetheless satisfies the Thai auhorities that I will not be a bad parent.

So, having contacted international child adoption agencies in the UK, I was directed to my local government social welfare department. I immediately faced a brick wall. My UK local authority (Leeds City Council) was not willing to assess me for adoption suitability because as a practical matter it was too difficult to deal with someone who spends most of his time in Thailand (two months in Thailand then 2 weeks in the UK).

Specialist UK international adoption lawyers advised me that Leeds council could not refuse to assess me (but they agreed with me that the council would hardly make a willing referee over a 2 year assessment period, having been bullied into the task by clever London lawyers, in a situation where they would hold all the cards in the final decision - the council had already told me they didn't care what clever lawyers think, that's their policy and they're sticking with it!). The crazy thing from a public policy viewpoint is that it would be easier for an English couple to come out to Thailand and get a baby for adoption and then be assessed back in England, ultimately to be able to take the baby back to the UK than it would be to assist me to adopt an existing family member and keep her within her existing extended family environment in Thailand.

If I am prepared to sever 99% of my links with my home country (which for me would involve giving up my supervision of financial affairs for my Dad and other aged family members) then the UK will engineer the right negative assurance letter that will satisfy Thai requirements that essentially are designed to check that I will be an appropraite adoptive parent. Cutting through the cr@p, the UK wants to ensure that Brits don't bring Thai babies back to the UK without having jumped through hoops, but as long as there is little risk that I will do that, they will play ball. [The Leeds council thing is just a one-off intransigence that completes the mockery of unfairness in process]. I don't want to take my daughter to the UK but am caught in the bureaucracy that is designed to strengthen my current intention into a reality.

My purpose is not to put you off. Indeed South Africa might be much easier to deal with (as apparently Canada is looking at one post above). But equally you might face the same kinds of frustrations, so this is to prepare you for it.

Start by consulting the South African enbassy in Bangkok. Also consult the relevant Thai authority:

Child Adoption Center Thailand

255 Ratchawithi Road

Phayathai

Bangkok 10400

Thailand

Tel +66 (0) 2 354 7500, (0) 2 354 7511

Fax +66 (0) 2354 7509 , (0)2354 7511

[email protected]

My information is about 15 months old but might still be useful. Best of luck!!

Edited July 27, 2012 by SantiSuk

[dairycarlin]

I know a thai woman who was impregnated by some South African man teaching here and ran home when he found out she was pregnant. She could really use the help now that she has given birth she realized its not as easy at is looks on TV but She has a beautiful baby girl.

Are you Interested?

[mca]

www.adoption.dsdw.go.th

Edited July 27, 2012 by mca

[CDNinKS]

Posted Yesterday, 22:04

Quote

You and your husband can adopt fairly easily here in Thailand. But, it would only be recognized in Thailand. If you want to adopt and give your child your nationality and be recognized as her legal parents in your own country and all other 1st world countries, you will have to go through an international adoption agency in your home country.

Not true, at least for Canada. By Canadian law all you have to do is 1) prove that it is a legal adoption in Thailand and 2) prove that at least one of the adoptive parents are Canadian citizens. Then the child will get Canadian citizenship.

I should have been a bit clearer on my post. What I posted above only applies if you have no intention to take the adopted child back to Canada to live. If you are a resident of Canada then there are the same hoops to jump thru that SantiSuk mentions about the UK. You would need the approval of the province in which you reside.

In my case my adopted daughters citizenship comes with some restrictions. If she wants to live in Canada she would still have to apply for permanent residence status, any children she might have in the future would not be eligible for Canadian citizenship, etc.

Basically what this does is it gives her a Canadian passport, but no real rights in Canada itself.

As SantiSuk says, the best advise is to contact the SA embassy and see what the process is for you.

Edited July 27, 2012 by CDNinKS

[gregb]

You and your husband can adopt fairly easily here in Thailand. But, it would only be recognized in Thailand. If you want to adopt and give your child your nationality and be recognized as her legal parents in your own country and all other 1st world countries, you will have to go through an international adoption agency in your home country.

Not true, at least for Canada. By Canadian law all you have to do is 1) prove that it is a legal adoption in Thailand and 2) prove that at least one of the adoptive parents are Canadian citizens. Then the child will get Canadian citizenship.

This doesn't seem likely, as Canada is a signatory to the Hague Convention on Intercountry Child Adoptions, which requires a very specific protocol be followed. Adoption through the Thai DSDW does not follow this protocol.

Your information may be out of date.

In fact, you can verify that this protocol must be followed at the following official Canadian government site:

http://www.hrsdc.gc....on/index.shtml/

As was pointed out above, it may be possible to give the child a residence permit on humanitarian grounds without violating the convention, but in order to officially transfer citizenship and be recognized as the legal mother and father the Hague Convention protocol is an absolute requirement.

If you are considering adopting through the DSDW, here is something to consider. While you are in Thailand, this option seems perfectly acceptable. However, if you ever need to return to South Africa, you may have a serious problem. South Africa is also a signatory to the Hague convention, and therefore necessarily requires Hague protocols to be followed.

If you should ever need to return to your home country, it could be very messy, as under the rules of countries who subscribe to the Hague convention you will not actually be the parents of the child. Further, having substantial contact with the child before receiving official approval to proceed with an international adoption through the proper channels in many cases renders you ineligible to complete the adoption according to international standards. This is all there to prevent child trafficking under the guise of adoption. They don't want you influencing a child before the biological mother and father have been counselled and the agency has definitively determined that the child is eligible for international adoption, and they don't want you creating a bond and making his life difficult if they should rule you as improper adoptive parents. Thus, you could find that you may never be able to be the mother and father of the child outside of Thailand no matter what you do if you take the easy route and go via the DSDW.

Do yourself a favor. Call your embassy. Tell them you wish to adopt, do exactly as they tell you, and plan on spending 3 years getting approved through the proper channels. Do not go straight to the DSDW. This is your child, and it is the one thing in the world that is worth doing right.

As for finding a Thai child, the waiting list is long. You will have much better luck going through an international agency anyway. It will cost more. Accept it. How bad do you want a child?

Edited July 28, 2012 by gregb

[CDNinKS]

gregb, if you read my next post you will see that I clarified that what I quoted only applied to adoption outside Canada. If you intend to adopt while a resident of Canada or with intention to move back to Canada within 6 months then it is entirely different.

There are 2 different processes, one for citizenship and another for immigration.

Here is the link that explains the process:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/adoption/choose.asp

Edited July 28, 2012 by CDNinKS

[nocturn]

We looked into adoption when we tried and could not have a baby. But we heard a lot of oppositions toward adoption over here from both officials and regular people. They all said when baby grows up they tend to find natural parents and eventually go to them. it is cultural.

finally we had our own baby and it is a gift

An utter load of <deleted>. that sounds to me like a convenient excuse to talk yourself out of adoption

being personally adopted, and knowing adopted kids Thai and otherwise i would say this is categorically untrue.

besides, most places wont provide any information regarding the biological parents without their consent, and then not before a child has reached the age of majority.

there may be some curiosity, but believe me, kids know who has got their back.

honesty is the key, i have always know i was adopted, so there was never a moment of shock.

there is a stigma attached to adoption in Thailand, most thais are pretty much closed to the idea, period. taking the advice of a Thai "official" on the matter boggles the mind

Edited August 1, 2012 by nocturn

[CDNinKS]

The adoption process in Thailand is a mine field. I went to the DSDW office in Bangkok and it is clear that the best interests of the child are the last thing they are concerned about. When I explained to the case worker (who spoke very good english) that my intent was to adopt and have joint custody of my Thai wife's daughter I was told that that no, that was not possible. If I adopt I would have sole custody. I said that was not what I or my wife wanted, I simply wanted to take the place of the little girl's biological father who has joint custody of the child. She said that the was not possible under Thai law. When I tried to reason with her on this she became belligerent and told me that this was the case "everywhere, in your country as well" and said that if I did not accept this she would stop the process right now.

Not having anything to contradict this with me I simply shut my mouth and let her carry on. After returning home I did some research and of course she was 100% wrong. In the US, UK and Canada (probably most other western countries as well) there are special procedures in place for what they term "family adoptions". In Canada for example these kind of adoptions are fast tracked as of course they are in the best interest of the child. If a single mother marries a man who is not the biological father of her child why would anyone with any common sense not think that the child would be feel more a part of that family if he/she was adopted by the step-father, or as in my case receive benefits from it?

I called a law company in Thailand and was advised to forget the whole thing as in their experience the DSDW will try to block this at every turn and that it would take a minimum of a year and more like 2 to get thru it all. He advised it would be far easier to have the the court grant me joint custody of the child. That is fine, but that would not give the little girl access to Canadian gov benefits should I die or a Canadian passport.

So, I have given up on the adoption process and my wife's daughter will be the loser in this idiotic system........TIT

[1kate1]

Would it not be easier to adopt a South African child? I'm sure there are many children there who would like to have a family life......or is it a look at me .....the Angelina Jolie syndrome.....just to be a talking point.

Since you state you do not want to get pregnant......you don't appear to have the maternal instinct required.......think about it......

[Mario2008]

Would it not be easier to adopt a South African child? I'm sure there are many children there who would like to have a family life......or is it a look at me .....the Angelina Jolie syndrome.....just to be a talking point.

Since you state you do not want to get pregnant......you don't appear to have the maternal instinct required.......think about it......

He wants to adopt his wife's child.

[Patsycat]

The OP wants to adopt because she doesn't want to get pregnant.

[Mario2008]

The OP wants to adopt because she doesn't want to get pregnant.

Yes, several posters in the same topic does get confusing sometimes. Guess 1kate1 was replying to the OP, while I was thinking of CDNinKS.