Phuket Expat Dokset Murder Trial: All Charges Denied

[Ulysses G.]

Keeping the body suggests a bit of insanity.

IMO, this is the only convincing part of your post on this matter.

[sirchai]

Seems all those guys who got busted within the last year were just the top of the iceberg.

Thailand replaced Spain for some particular human beings.

Thailand a holiday, -or a criminals' hiding destination?---------

Edited August 1, 2012 by sirchai

[Soutpeel]

apparently, they havent found the whole body in that plastic box...

only some parts of it, and it was mentioned that some sort of "acid" might have been used (or so)...

there is no such acid, which destroyes bones and things but no regular plastic box... im not sure, if there is even any acid anywhere available which does destroy a body completely, then maybe in a emaille-bathtub or so...

given the utterly strange time frame, set by the "husband", the family and the "law-firm", it appears, that she was murdered, digged under somewhere by her murderer...

as she had three children, a plan to get some money was prepared...

the body was located and the few limbs found were put into a plastic box and driven to doksets house... when the financial background of dokset was figured out by the "pro`s", the police was sent to doksets house - who, against all odds, refused to pay ... (?) ...the rest of the story is in the paper...

i believe dokset is in danger in prison... if he doesnt confess and the case goes into trouble he might be at a serious risk...

Hydrofluoric Acid can do a very effective job on bones and flesh. Standard low and high density polyethylene and some other common plastics are resistant to it. Not suggesting this was used, just answering ddpffft's query. Not going to comment on the rest of his 'theories'.

And were would a normal person aquire significant quantities of HF in Thailand or any other country for that matter, used in some oil processing and heavy industry for processing stainless steel...you dont buy this stuff from a local Pharmacy or hardware store...

Yes HF very effective on bone & flesh if I remember my HF awareness training many moons ago...

[Ulysses G.]

Some liquid rust removers have Hydrofluoric Acid in them. That might do the job.

[Soutpeel]

Some liquid rust removers have Hydrofluoric Acid in them. That might do the job.

You are correct some do, but not in the quantites or purity to do the evil deed I am afraid..

[necronx99]

Some liquid rust removers have Hydrofluoric Acid in them. That might do the job.

You are correct some do, but not in the quantites or purity to do the evil deed I am afraid..

You're all focusing on acids, how about lime and organic enzymes

[carra]

Nice if them to hide the second story so neatly.

There is clear CCTV evidence. Strange plea

there is clear evidence of someone being stabbed however the faces of the offenders is not clear. There could also be an argument for manslaughter if it is proven to be them. however their denial that on all charges is something i expected as i imagine the initial confession was beaten out of them. The important thing is the right people get sentenced for this crime, if it is these guys and there is more evidence than we know about then they have signed their own death warrant, unless they can join the police quickly then get bail after being sentenced to death.

[Soutpeel]

Some liquid rust removers have Hydrofluoric Acid in them. That might do the job.

You are correct some do, but not in the quantites or purity to do the evil deed I am afraid..

You're all focusing on acids, how about lime and organic enzymes

Yes lots of other possibilities, but dont think the accused is a Nobel laurate chemist / organic chemist....you would need knowlege

[Valentine]

Probably a significant beating 2X per day for 5 days will elict the usual "confession". I'm surprised this Thai Treatment has not already been applied? I wonder if the thai Police have bothered to trace were the containers and Acid was purchased?

Wheelie bins are available to buy which is what they found the body in. I have not seen a report stating what chemical was used but if it was acid it could well have been pool acid ,hydrochloric acid very strong (I have handled this many times & is available in many shops not only pool shops), as he has a pool in his home.

[Valentine]

Nice if them to hide the second story so neatly.

There is clear CCTV evidence. Strange plea

there is clear evidence of someone being stabbed however the faces of the offenders is not clear. There could also be an argument for manslaughter if it is proven to be them. however their denial that on all charges is something i expected as i imagine the initial confession was beaten out of them. The important thing is the right people get sentenced for this crime, if it is these guys and there is more evidence than we know about then they have signed their own death warrant, unless they can join the police quickly then get bail after being sentenced to death.

One of the guys admitted stabbing her but with no intent to kill. It seems they could also be angling for a lesser charge. However, the video is quite clear on how the knife was held & the ferocity of the attack so IMO it is still murder, intentional or not.

[Cardiff1963]

The evidence is surely against him...Wait for the trial to see what kind of juice he has?

could you please elaborate what the evidence is, apart from the body in the bathroom?

I think that's enough evidence to raise suspicion, sherlock

[Soutpeel]

Probably a significant beating 2X per day for 5 days will elict the usual "confession". I'm surprised this Thai Treatment has not already been applied? I wonder if the thai Police have bothered to trace were the containers and Acid was purchased?

Wheelie bins are available to buy which is what they found the body in. I have not seen a report stating what chemical was used but if it was acid it could well have been pool acid ,hydrochloric acid very strong (I have handled this many times & is available in many shops not only pool shops), as he has a pool in his home.

Correct, but not strong enough to get rid of all the bits you want to, it will burn/discolour and destroy flesh, but not do very much on bones...HF was suggested becasue of its affinity for calcium, ie your bones...in theroy at least HF would get rid of all "evidence"

Edited August 1, 2012 by Soutpeel

[Cardiff1963]

Seems to be a lot of CSI fans on here and legal experts, If he was Thai then the usual whingers would be calling for the death sentence

[aht]

Am I missing something in this case of the 2 Thai guys killing the Australian ladies ? They have now withdrawn their confessions and are now in denial ? That could spell death sentences in found guilty and the evidence against them [CCTV footage], one would think, looked quite compelling

They are probably denying the 'murder' charge, which denotes premeditation.

The move by Dokset to deny all charges against him came on the same day, in the same court, that the confessed killers of Australian travel agent Michelle Smith denied all charges against them for the stabbing murder of Ms Smith in a botched bag-snatch on June 20.

As for this other guy using accidentally” killing her in a fit of jealous rage as an excuse is a non - starter IMO.

[aht]

They are probably denying the 'murder' charge, which denotes premeditation.

[Valentine]

Probably a significant beating 2X per day for 5 days will elict the usual "confession". I'm surprised this Thai Treatment has not already been applied? I wonder if the thai Police have bothered to trace were the containers and Acid was purchased?

Wheelie bins are available to buy which is what they found the body in. I have not seen a report stating what chemical was used but if it was acid it could well have been pool acid ,hydrochloric acid very strong (I have handled this many times & is available in many shops not only pool shops), as he has a pool in his home.

Correct, but not strong enough to get rid of all the bits you want to, it will burn/discolour and destroy flesh, but not do very much on bones...HF was suggested becasue of its affinity for calcium, ie your bones...in theroy at least HF would get rid of all "evidence"

The initial report said there was still flesh & body parts in the bin. Apparently he put lime or soda ash (another chemical used for pools) to try & disguise the smell.

[ayayay]

Sad. Its pretty bad when the cops find the corps of your EX girlfriend in your house, no matter what country you are in.

And even worse to be the guy stupid enough to kill his own girlfriend...

[ddpffft]

none of the killers (dahmer) ever managed to get a body dissolved in acid... it just doesnt do...

and in the bin found at doksets house, there were only a few body parts...

where is the rest of her body ?

dokset was long time 2 years or more separated from the victim... he had completely started over....

the ex-husband is logically the prime suspect here - but - he is a policeman... and - dokset has a nice house...

Edited August 1, 2012 by ddpffft

[Soutpeel]

none of the killers (dahmer) ever managed to get a body dissolved in acid... it just doesnt do...

Cos they never had the right acid.. ....in theory at least HF would do it, but very difficult for any self respecting murderer to get their hands on in a concentrated form in any significant quantity, and if they didnt know how to handle it properly...well maybe doing the court a favour

[ddpffft]

most plausible is...

she was buried somewhere, then taken out...

the few remaining body parts where washed a few times and then put into some sort of "acid", to remove insects and dirt...

finally, the box was placed at doskets house... how convenient...

and - as the victims gun and 58 bullets were found next to that box in doksets basement bathroom - we can assume, that she was shot to death with her own weapon...

and - as the victims family found blood stains in her car (and these were so much and many, that they assumed from then, she had been murdered), lets assume, the victim was transported in her own car to her initial burial/hiding place...

Edited August 1, 2012 by ddpffft

[necronx99]

most plausible is...

she was buried somewhere, then taken out...

the few remaining body parts where washed a few times and then put into some sort of "acid", to remove insects and dirt...

finally, the box was placed at doskets house... how convenient...

and - as the victims gun and 58 bullets were found next to that box in doksets basement bathroom - we can assume, that she was shot to death with her own weapon...

and - as the victims family found blood stains in her car (and these were so much and many, that they assumed from then, she had been murdered), lets assume, the victim was transported in her own car to her initial burial/hiding place...

A three year long frame up by a person with nothing to gain?

A wheelie bin full of dead chick hidden the same locked room Domset keeps his safe and his gun and most likely all the chanotes Dokset had purchased in the deceaseds name.....

Obviously some strange obscure usage of the phrase "most plausible" that I and the rest of the English speaking world were previously unaware of.

[Valentine]

most plausible is...

she was buried somewhere, then taken out...

the few remaining body parts where washed a few times and then put into some sort of "acid", to remove insects and dirt...

finally, the box was placed at doskets house... how convenient...

and - as the victims gun and 58 bullets were found next to that box in doksets basement bathroom - we can assume, that she was shot to death with her own weapon...

and - as the victims family found blood stains in her car (and these were so much and many, that they assumed from then, she had been murdered), lets assume, the victim was transported in her own car to her initial burial/hiding place...

Have you ever read the initial report? He stated he placed the body in the wheelie bin after she died & it was in his house for about 2 1/2 years. It is likely he panicked after the accident or murder & he also said he blotted it out of his mind afterwards.

[cup-O-coffee]

Keeping the body suggests a bit of insanity.

IMO, this is the only convincing part of your post on this matter.

I am not making overtures to convince anyone of anything. I am merely presenting a point that we cannot look at only the results and overlook what got us to those results.

The results are that someone took the life of another person.

Regarding the things that got that someone to commit this act:

If this person has no prior criminal offenses, then this means that it is highly probable that he or she got to the age they are at with a reasonable amount of good behavior in society. What this means is that it is highly probable that (to all intents and purposes), this person could be your neighbor or the person who checks out your produce at the market and you have known them for years.

Judging what I read, Mr. Dokset lived fairly well-off and so it is highly probable that he is an intelligent and good-natured enough person to have achieved a certain amount of enviable success in human society, without any heretofore tendencies that suggest he is a criminal (see last quote of this post).

So, why does someone who leads a seemingly respectable life suddenly carry out such an act, and at such a later age in life?

What snaps in someone like that to make this happen?

Could it be that a decent person can be provoked into losing control of one's will to know-better?

As I have already read in their entirety these articles, I suggest you do the same before cognitively selecting whether you are convinced or not:

The wrongfulness of wrongly interpreting wrongfulness: Provocation interpretational bias and heat of passion homicide

and

Self-Control in the Modern Provocation Defence - MIT

excerpt:

LOSS OF SELF-CONTROL

We are now in a position to broach the second of our questions: to see what it

is to lose self-control, and to see what results such a loss would engender. If the

foregoing account is broadly correct, self-control is a specific ability working

through a specific mechanism. An agent could, in theory, live without it; indeed

it seems that animals and very young children generally do. Agents who lacked

self-control would still perform intentional actions—they would still be

agents—but these actions would be driven by their current desires or other

inclinations. What they would lose is the ability to control those inclinations:

to bring their actions into line with what they judged best.33

Few, if any, adults live entirely without self-control. However, some have

more than others; and the self-control that they have can be lost. We have seen

already that states like stress and anxiety can destroy self-control. Importantly

for our concerns, so does anger. We do not simply mean that anger will

sometimes overwhelm our self-control, in the sense that we have insufficient selfcontrol

to deal with it. We mean that it can actively undermine self-control: the

effect of anger can be to destroy the self-control that we would otherwise have.

Anger thus undermines the very thing that is supposed to control it.34

This gives rise to an important result. If an agent suffers a provocation and

responds with some violent act, there can be two quite different explanations of

why she acts as she does. The first is that she lacked sufficient self-control to

handle the provocation: it simply gave rise to violent inclinations that her selfcontrol

was unable to restrain, inclinations that therefore moved her to

perform the violent act. The second explanation, in contrast, accepts that the

agent did have sufficient self-control to handle the violent inclinations.

However, the provocation acted in two ways: as well as giving rise to the

inclinations, it also undermined the self-control that would otherwise have

restrained them. Without the latter, undermining, effect, the agent’s self-control

would have been sufficient to prevent the violent response; with it, it was not.

Our view is that it is only in cases in which this undermining has occurred that

we can properly speak of an agent losing her self-control as a result of the

provocation. So, it is only in these cases that the modern provocation defence

can properly be invoked.

Whilst the distinction here, between cases that involve undermining of selfcontrol,

and those that do not, is conceptually clear, it does present an

evidential problem. How are we to know whether a given violent act falls under

one explanation or the other? The problem stems from the fact that the very

counterfactual tests we normally employ to determine causal chains have no

obvious purchase here. We want to know whether the loss of self-control was

necessary for the violent response. That is, we want to know whether the violent

response would have happened even without the agent’s self-control having

been undermined.35 But we cannot ask: Would the agent have refrained from

violence if she had been provoked in this way but had not received the stimulus

that caused her to lose her self-control? For, ex hypothesi, the provocation is the

stimulus that caused her to lose her self-control.

So how are we to answer this question? If we knew enough neuro-science we

might think of looking inside the agent’s brain to see what had happened: were

there the kind of brain changes that suggest that self-control was lost?36 But we

cannot do that. So we have to use less direct methods for determining the right

explanation. To say that these methods are indirect is not to say that they are

generally unreliable. Nor are they in any way esoteric. They will turn out to

involve just the kind of factors that judges and juries are likely to consider in

provocation cases. We take this as evidence that, despite its apparent

complexity, the account of self-control that we have offered is in fact both the

common-sense one and the legal one.37

THE SUBJECTIVE TEST REVISITED

With this account of self-control in place, we now return to the subjective test

as it occurs in the provocation defence, and to the question of the evidence

that can bear on it. The test breaks down into three sub-tests: (i) did the agent

have self-control prior to the provocation? (ii) if so, was that self-control lost

as a result of the provocation? and (iii) if so, was it this loss of self-control

that was the cause of the homicide? We examine each in turn...

If you wish to be convinced of anything, I suggest you read this last article, as page 11 states:

Developmental evidence

We do not know of any empirical studies on the development of the ability to

exercise self-control in the face of provocation; but there is extensive work on

the development of self-control in the face of temptation.

So, what I am suggesting is that it is highly probable that this man, who heretofore led a a fairly decent and respectable life... was provoked, and he absolutely lost it!

The PDF suggests all the things necessary for the courts to decide whether this is a soluble (explainable) form of defense, and allows it into his testimony. I think they should allow it. I think he was provoked, and lost it... erupted.

[sfbandung]

most plausible is...

she was buried somewhere, then taken out...

the few remaining body parts where washed a few times and then put into some sort of "acid", to remove insects and dirt...

finally, the box was placed at doskets house... how convenient...

and - as the victims gun and 58 bullets were found next to that box in doksets basement bathroom - we can assume, that she was shot to death with her own weapon...

and - as the victims family found blood stains in her car (and these were so much and many, that they assumed from then, she had been murdered), lets assume, the victim was transported in her own car to her initial burial/hiding place...

And that's your most plausible likelyhood?

Your least likelyhood must be a real flight of fancy.

[HerbalEd]

Re. "To the charge of murder, Dokset maintained his innocence, in line with his confession to police of “accidentally” killing her in a fit of jealous rage."

Where I come from, that's called murder ... aka manslaughter, but it's still a murder charge.

[jerrysteve]

In light of the fact they just let these particular murderers out on Bail after a conviction, What the hell is the point of putting DokSet on Trial

for admitting he knocked off his ole lady.

What is the point of this exercise!!!!

Then again he is a Foreginer, and not subject to the normal laws that Thais are.

If this wasn't a real tragedy with respect to the rule of law here (if one actually exists), it would have the making of a Comedy.

[jerrysteve]

Of course one could argue these Policemen were just following orders of Heir King Rat Thaksin.

One could or might suspect that someone's money was the key to unlocking the cell doors and letting the convicted Rat's out of Jail.

[ddpffft]

...but, oh my, he left her weapon plus bullets next to her... no, he didnt throw it just away... ooohhh...

...but hey, he managed the most sophisticated unprecedented successful attempt of the century in dissolving of a body...

whoever would enter that bathroom - it was made sure, the person would not overlook the bin...

Edited August 1, 2012 by ddpffft

[jerrysteve]

a Jealous Rage is in fact a very Plausable defense in the hands of a very gifted criminal attorney.

Case of Successful criminal cases have in fact been won in a criminal court of law in the U.S.A.

Here in Thailand I is hard to believe they have exceptional criminal attorneys.

It is more likely that big bucks have or will be changing hands.

After all this is Thailand, and History here like almost all history in the world makes the rules.

Until the public has the gutts to change it.

And we all know, Thais have away of looking the other way.

What was that famous saying on Star Treck from the Borg, "Resistance is Futile."

[thaicbr]

He should also try for bail. As convicted murderers who were previously police men can get it easily.

sent from my Wellcom A90+