Dual Nationality Transition Question For Older 'Luk Krung' Child

[Phuketshrew]

I am seeking clarification/advice on the following:

My 21 year old son now has both British and Thai passports (recently issued) and has had a Thai ID cadr for some years now.

He has always used his British passport and had a 12 month visa either based on my 12 month visa or having a Thai mother.

His 12 month visa expires on August 24th. Question:

Should he now try and renew this visa OR should he leave Thailand on his British passport (i.e. get stamped out on his current visa) and re-enter on his new Thai passport? Thereby eliminating the need to hold a visa in his british passport and have to do 90 day reporting.

If the latter option is best is it possible to do this on a Ranong Visa run i.e. sign out on his British passport at the pier, travel across the water to Myanmar and then re-enter at the pier on his Thai passport? Or would it be better to fly down to KL and turn around and come straight back in on his Thai passport?

Thanks for any advice.

Phuketshrew

[samran]

If he's entered Thailand on his Brit passport, he must leave on it.

There have been reports here on TV of people entering on the foreign passport and then trying to leave on the Thai, and the immigration computers have picked it up.

He can return to Thailand on the Thai passport.

Passport swaps generally can not be done at land borders (there always is the odd exception but I wouldn't risk it). Best is by air.

Out of interest, where was your son born?

[p_brownstone]

Much better to leave on the British Passport and re-enter on the Thai one so he has no further need for 90 Day reporting etc. etc..

However I do not think this Passport switch can be done at a land border because Exit Stamps are checked on re-entry and there would be non in the Thai Passport (although there is some confusion over this since, by law, a Thai National with a Thai Passport cannot be denied entry to Thailand). Best plan would be to fly to KL and fly back on the Thai Passport.

Patrick

[lopburi3]

What is his military draft status?

[Phuketshrew]

Thanks for the advice Samran,

So I guess a HKT to KL flight would be our best option then?

He was born in the UK and has lived in Thailand since he was 4 months old (apart from 18 months at college in the UK). He currently lives in BKK but is now with us in Phuket for a holiday break.

We tried to do this when he was younger but the immigration at HKT airport would not allow him on his Thai passport as they knew he also held a Brit passport. I think he should leave on his Brit one and return on his Thai one without revealing the other at the time. Is there likely to be any problem gaining entry to Thailand on a new Thai passport with no exit stamps?

I was thinking of doing the Ranong run - and just having him walk back in without visiting the immigration desks - If challenged he could just show his Thai passport and ID - Would that work? That way he would also have a Thai passport with no stamps.

Thanks

[Boksida]

My son was in a similar position. I don't know about the situation at Ranong but what he did at a land border was:

1. Got stamped out of Thailand on a valid visa in his foreign passport to avoid any overstay complications.

2. Used a ploy to turn around and wander back into Thailand without going anywhere. He has a Thai ID card and a new Thai passport.

He had already received an exemption from military service.

He has since traveled from Thailand by air on his Thai passport without any problem.

[Phuketshrew]

What is his military draft status?

He has a certificate of exemption from military service.

[samran]

For my money - and purely as a hassle saver, I'd do it via BKK where they deal with dual nationals every day.

It helps he was born in the UK. There are literally thousands of overseas born Thai citizens (like me) and we all have to enter Thailand for the first time on virgin Thai PP's with no stamps.

As such, if questioned (they are usually looking for your old Thai PP which you exited on) just say that he was born overseas and is coming to Thailand for the first time.

At BKK, it is easy enough to escalate the issue to a senior officer if there is any confusion, but I doubt it will even get that far. My sister breezed in on a Thai passport for the first time in two decades a few years back. Nary a question was asked.

[lopburi3]

I would use the airport exit and return with Thai passport - he likely will be questioned on return but they can not refuse him entry on the Thai passport as he is Thai. So he might have to appeal to supervisor but am sure it will be allowed.

Ranong might be a very hard sell as people are expected to return so might be harder than at a crossing where people routinely travel onward and may never return so less chance paperwork not matching. That said it might well work.

[IMA_FARANG]

Yes, it can be done.

He should leave on his British passport...making absolutely sure he gets an exit stamp in that passport.

On re-entry enter on hsi Thai passport. Be sure to have BOTH passports with him....and if questioned show that exit stamp in his British passport.

This CAN be done at either a land border or when entering by air...it's entirely legal because of his dual nationality.

HOWEVER....for convienence....I would reccomend it be done entering by air....just the because immigration people at a land border simply may not have seen such a thing before....and that could cause problems getting it all sorted out.

The immigration at an airport....especially where they see a lot of international arrivals....would probably have seen dual nationals with two legal passports many times before.

So there he would be much more likely not to have problems than at a land border crossing.

Another possibility might be arranging a train trip or even a weekend trip to Penang.

Spend one or two days (with your son, maybe?) at the beaces in Penang....then back on the train also.

That Malay-Thailand border gets MANY tourists crossing...and they would probably have seen quite a few dual nationals with two passports before also.

Edited August 8, 2012 by IMA_FARANG

[submaniac]

To the OP, yes I know what it's like. Thai immigrations can be a pain with passports. I have both U.S. and Thai passport, and a Thai ID. The Thai passport was issued at the Thai consulate in Los Angeles.

Every time I have tried to use the Thai passport (at least at Swampy airporrt), Immigration has been a pain and refused to allow me to use it. This is both for entry and for exit. I do not know if it is because they don't like the foreign issued passports, or if it's ignorance. I had one immigration officer tell me that after a certain age I had to choose one passport or the other, and turn into them the Thai passport (which I know is not true).

One I tried to enter on the Thai passport, immigration said "nope, you must have a stamp leaving from Thailand before you can enter on a Thai passport." Ok. So one time I entered on a U.S. passport, and tried to leave on a Thai passport. Immigration said "nope, if you entered on a U.S. passport you have to leave on a U.S. passport". On this particular time I had overstayed on the U.S. passport, which is the reason I tried to use the Thai passport to leave. They just stamped the U.S. passport on exit, and didn't charge me an overstay fine or anything.

My thoughts are, if I overstay on a U.S. passport and I have a Thai passport and a Thai ID, I dunno if anything is really going to happen to me. I mean if I get pulled over by the cops, I can whip out the Thai ID; don't think they're going to send me to immigration jail for that. If I overstay and leave at the airport...well I already did that and they didn't do anything to me. I don't think they can blacklist a citizen from entering the country. (Though with Thai immigration officials they pretty do whatever it is they feel like.)

[samran]

So Subby - you here on the US PP still?

[submaniac]

no no no. Am in California now.

[Soutpeel]

To the OP, yes I know what it's like. Thai immigrations can be a pain with passports. I have both U.S. and Thai passport, and a Thai ID. The Thai passport was issued at the Thai consulate in Los Angeles.

Every time I have tried to use the Thai passport (at least at Swampy airporrt), Immigration has been a pain and refused to allow me to use it. This is both for entry and for exit. I do not know if it is because they don't like the foreign issued passports, or if it's ignorance. I had one immigration officer tell me that after a certain age I had to choose one passport or the other, and turn into them the Thai passport (which I know is not true).

One I tried to enter on the Thai passport, immigration said "nope, you must have a stamp leaving from Thailand before you can enter on a Thai passport." Ok. So one time I entered on a U.S. passport, and tried to leave on a Thai passport. Immigration said "nope, if you entered on a U.S. passport you have to leave on a U.S. passport". On this particular time I had overstayed on the U.S. passport, which is the reason I tried to use the Thai passport to leave. They just stamped the U.S. passport on exit, and didn't charge me an overstay fine or anything.

My thoughts are, if I overstay on a U.S. passport and I have a Thai passport and a Thai ID, I dunno if anything is really going to happen to me. I mean if I get pulled over by the cops, I can whip out the Thai ID; don't think they're going to send me to immigration jail for that. If I overstay and leave at the airport...well I already did that and they didn't do anything to me. I don't think they can blacklist a citizen from entering the country. (Though with Thai immigration officials they pretty do whatever it is they feel like.)

The joys to dual nationality,

I think there is a great deal of ignorance from immigration officials thrown into pot worldwide, not just Thailand, as they dont really know how to deal with dual nationals, physical/paper work process aside, first and foremost you are a Thai national, therefore you have legal right of entry and abode in Thailand, irrespective of the passport your carrying, therefore in theroy they cannot charge you for an overstay in a country were you are a citizen. Obviously the test of this would be in a Thai court.

Further they cannot blacklist you for "visa violations" you a legal citizen, you dont need a visa to be in your own country

for all intents in purposes you can arrive at swampy with no passport and they have to let you in (after enquires of course)

These sorts of situations are typically way beyond the pay scale of the Mr Somchai immigration sitting at a PP deck of swampy and they normally take the easy way out for themselves because they dont understand, and the preception maybe that you are not "full" Thai but 50/50...this is obviously not true, you have all the same rights as a Thai citizen who doesnt have "another" passport.

My next comment is going to raise some heckles, but think one of the problems in Thailand when it comes to dual nationality is that Thailand tolerates dual nationality but doesnt "officially/legally recognise it which may complicate things, sure Samran or similar will be along to correct me on this one if I am wrong.

For example, the UK legally recognises dual nationality, were I think Thailand does not. "tolerates and legally recognises" are not quite the same thing

I am a dual national (not Thai) and I battled for years with the "other country" over similar issues, yes frustrating, but we eventually got to a rather elegant compromise over the "PP issue" when entering and departing the "other" pp and its worked rather well to date

[Phuketshrew]

Guy's - thanks for all the advice thus far.

My son is flying back from HKT to BKK next Wednesday so I think I'll get him on a flight out of Swampy shortly after that. We both have some Krisflyer miles that need to be used so hopefully I can get him a freeby flight. I'll get him to check out on his British passport and then back in again on his Thai passport. Can't see how they can refuse entry if he has Thai passport, ID Card and Military exemption papers in hand.

Thanks again for the advice.

[samran]

The advice I give everyone, as it is what works, is that if you ever get any hassle, escalate the issue to a senior officer who will over-rule the junior officer and have you stamped in on the Thai passport. Overwhelm them with the simple logic "how is an overseas born Thai supposed to enter the country for the first time then?". Suspect it won't get that far though.

Having said that, you might want to try the automatic gates coming back in. They are great and your son might just get zapped in.

Edited August 8, 2012 by samran

[ubonjoe]

The most important thing when entering and entering the country with the Thai passport is never show the foreign passport to immigration. The airline check in counter is the only place you will need to show both passports.

[Phuketshrew]

Just to update you all and say thanks for your help.

My son flew out of BKK last week to Bali. Stamped out on his British passport. Stamped in and out of Bali on his Thai passport - and so saved the $25 visa fee for Bali. He flew back in on Thursday. No problems getting in on his Thai passport as he used one of the automatic machines - easy!

Hopefully no more visas or 90 day reporting now needed - job done.